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TallTitan34

Ohtani pausing on pitching.

Jockey

Quote from: JWags85 on July 19, 2026, 11:58:08 AMWut? According to who? There literally isn't a major betting house that has him in the top 3, much less the "runaway leader" and his odds aren't much different than preseason.

Mattingly is the clear favorite, with McCullough from the Marlins and Weiss in Atlanta behind him, depending who you look at.  Pretty much every mid year article chose Mattingly.

You can think he deserves it, sure.  But saying he's the runaway leader is hilariously off base.

Mattingly is coaching a team of All- stars. Maybe the best starting staff in baseball. He has Sanchez, Wheeler, Luzardo, and Nola. He has future HoFers on offense. He should win games with that team.

The Brewers are starting all rookies or near rookies on the mound. Yet, they have a much better record.

Weiss has no chance. Blown a huge lead and will be lucky to win a division.

McCullough is the only one close to Murph.

Pakuni

Sean Burke's last six starts:

38.2 IP, 6 ER (1.40 ERA), 47 K, 6 BB

Pretty, pretty good.

MuggsyB

Contreras just hit a walk-off for the Brewers. 

Uncle Rico

Quote from: MuggsyB on July 19, 2026, 04:01:36 PMContreras just hit a walk-off for the Brewers. 

Completely classless walkoff.  The world longs for Yadier Molina.
Don Kojis dominated plumbers and dentists

Jockey

3 rookie starters for the Brewers = 3 wins.

MU82

Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2026, 01:30:00 PMMattingly is coaching a team of All- stars. Maybe the best starting staff in baseball. He has Sanchez, Wheeler, Luzardo, and Nola. He has future HoFers on offense. He should win games with that team.

The Brewers are starting all rookies or near rookies on the mound. Yet, they have a much better record.

Weiss has no chance. Blown a huge lead and will be lucky to win a division.

McCullough is the only one close to Murph.

Did you read what Wags wrote? Nobody is saying Murphy's not doing a fine job, or even that he's undeserving of the award. But the people who actually vote on it keep writing/talking about Mattingly, and the betting lines favor Mattingly, too.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Jockey

Quote from: MU82 on July 19, 2026, 06:53:15 PMDid you read what Wags wrote? Nobody is saying Murphy's not doing a fine job, or even that he's undeserving of the award. But the people who actually vote on it keep writing/talking about Mattingly, and the betting lines favor Mattingly, too.

I understood. And I don't dislike Mattingly at all. Murph has just done a better team. Low budget team that's one game away from having the best record in baseball.

MU82

Quote from: Jockey on July 19, 2026, 07:05:18 PMI understood. And I don't dislike Mattingly at all. Murph has just done a better team. Low budget team that's one game away from having the best record in baseball.

OK. But your reasonable arguments and/or what you want to see happen doesn't make Murph the "runaway leader," right?
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

cheebs09

I feel like the Brewers would have to significantly overperform for him to win a third year in a row. Also, maybe they just have really good players.

GB Warrior

Quote from: cheebs09 on July 19, 2026, 08:30:35 PMI feel like the Brewers would have to significantly overperform for him to win a third year in a row. Also, maybe they just have really good players.

Can't win manager of the year when you willingly bat Yelich leadoff every game

The Sultan

It's strange because the Brewers won 97 games last year. The pre-season predictions where somewhere in the mid-80s. Yet they're on pace to win 96-97 again.

Murph's a good manager but I have no idea if he is overperforming or just doing what he did last year.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

Jockey

Quote from: MU82 on July 19, 2026, 07:14:43 PMOK. But your reasonable arguments and/or what you want to see happen doesn't make Murph the "runaway leader," right?

As of right now, based on results, he is definitely the leader. And if he hadn't won the last 2 years, IMO, he would be the runaway leader.

Remember, there were years that Jordan didn't win MVP when he was the runaway best player in the league.

None of my comments were meant to disparage any of the other managers.

Uncle Rico

Quote from: The Sultan on Today at 08:06:51 AMIt's strange because the Brewers won 97 games last year. The pre-season predictions where somewhere in the mid-80s. Yet they're on pace to win 96-97 again.

Murph's a good manager but I have no idea if he is overperforming or just doing what he did last year.

I tend to think it's more of an organizational achievement than Murph's managing acumen.

Now, a manager does have navigate the locker room and we saw at the end of the Counsell era a locker room with bad vibes (again, organizational decisions, not managerial in that case).  He hasn't had to deal with a petulant player like Burnes or a team blindsided by a Hader trade. 

Having everyone aligned top down makes his job a bit easier. I'm more inclined to give it to McCullough right now who is working in an organization who many think is pretty poorly run.
Don Kojis dominated plumbers and dentists

cheebs09

Quote from: Uncle Rico on Today at 09:38:49 AMI tend to think it's more of an organizational achievement than Murph's managing acumen.

Now, a manager does have navigate the locker room and we saw at the end of the Counsell era a locker room with bad vibes (again, organizational decisions, not managerial in that case).  He hasn't had to deal with a petulant player like Burnes or a team blindsided by a Hader trade. 

Having everyone aligned top down makes his job a bit easier. I'm more inclined to give it to McCullough right now who is working in an organization who many think is pretty poorly run.

I think the Pitching Lab being able to take talented guys who haven't put it together yet, and give them quality starts is a big thing. The offense is a little too hit or miss to have me confident the ceiling for this team is above the NLCS.

Uncle Rico

Quote from: cheebs09 on Today at 10:08:24 AMI think the Pitching Lab being able to take talented guys who haven't put it together yet, and give them quality starts is a big thing. The offense is a little too hit or miss to have me confident the ceiling for this team is above the NLCS.

Yesterday was a prime example of them needing another slugger.  Though they won, that whole game was waiting for a slugger to hit a bomb and tie it or give them the lead.

Unfortunately, they aren't alone in needing a bopper. 
Don Kojis dominated plumbers and dentists

TAMU, Knower of Ball

I think Mattingly, McCullough, Murphy, and Weiss all have solid arguments at the moment:

Mattingly: Phillies were 9-19 (.321) before his promotion, and are 46-26 (.639) after. They went from being on pace for 52 wins to being on pace for 104 wins (if they had played this way since the beginning of the season).

McCullough: 12th best record and tied for WC berth despite being 29th in payroll, being in a poorly run organization, and being wildly picked to finish below .500.

Murphy: 2nd best record and current 2 seed in NL despite being 19th in payroll and being widely picked to fall off (again).

Weiss: 2nd largest season to season improvement in the NL. Braves won 76 games last season and are on pace to win 94 games (18 game improvement). Only NL team better is the last place Rockies but you don't win awards just for not being historically atrocious.

As a huge Murphy fan, I'd probably slot him behind Mattingly and McCullough but ahead of Weiss at the moment, but I think it's close between all four. With voter fatigue, I think the Phillies and Marlins would have to miss the playoffs for Murphy to get a threepeat.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


MU82

Quote from: Jockey on Today at 08:44:25 AMAs of right now, based on results, he is definitely the leader. And if he hadn't won the last 2 years, IMO, he would be the runaway leader.

Remember, there were years that Jordan didn't win MVP when he was the runaway best player in the league.

None of my comments were meant to disparage any of the other managers.

OK, Jock, I'll let you stay on this hill. Enjoy.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

BM1090

Quote from: Jockey on Today at 08:44:25 AMAs of right now, based on results, he is definitely the leader. And if he hadn't won the last 2 years, IMO, he would be the runaway leader.

Remember, there were years that Jordan didn't win MVP when he was the runaway best player in the league.

None of my comments were meant to disparage any of the other managers.

If you want to say based on results he's the best manager in baseball, that's cool. But you said he's the favorite for MOTY, which he basically has no shot at winning again this year.

JWags85

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on Today at 11:10:20 AMI think Mattingly, McCullough, Murphy, and Weiss all have solid arguments at the moment:

Mattingly: Phillies were 9-19 (.321) before his promotion, and are 46-26 (.639) after. They went from being on pace for 52 wins to being on pace for 104 wins (if they had played this way since the beginning of the season).

I didn't get around to it, but this is the key point for Mattingly.  Jockey repeatedly mentioned the Brewers "much better record" as a knock on Mattingly vs Murphy, which seems to imply that Mattingly was the manager since the start.  In reality, the Brewers and Phillies have basically the same record since Mattingly took over in late April.

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on Today at 11:10:20 AMMurphy: 2nd best record and current 2 seed in NL despite being 19th in payroll and being widely picked to fall off (again).

"Fall off" is pretty subjective IMO.  Cause I don't think there was any publication/website of note that had the Brewers any lower than 2nd in the Central (multiple still had them besting the Cubs in the division) and I think nearly all still had them making the playoffs as a WC.

The MLB media environment, both traditional and digital, has a tendency to automatically venerate big money/big name rosters in the preseason...which obviously the Brewers are not.  Its not a knock on Murphy or the Brewers, they are just a very good team with a lot of good players that are performing as such, not a result of a mad scientist manager pulling the right controversial levers or taking a risk on a random player...IMO.  There are plenty of very talented, big money teams that face plant early and never correct or under-perform all year, so that's clearly why Mattingly is being rightly praised   

Quote from: BM1090 on Today at 12:57:15 PMIf you want to say based on results he's the best manager in baseball, that's cool. But you said he's the favorite for MOTY, which he basically has no shot at winning again this year.

EXACTLY.  Murphy is a great manager and has rightly been recognized as such.  But 2-3 different times he repeated that Murphy is the leader, much less the runaway leader...which is apparently he is in the Jockey Baseball Almanac, which is fine, but ridiculous to continue to assert its some league/media wise consensus.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

Quote from: JWags85 on Today at 01:14:50 PM"Fall off" is pretty subjective IMO.  Cause I don't think there was any publication/website of note that had the Brewers any lower than 2nd in the Central (multiple still had them besting the Cubs in the division) and I think nearly all still had them making the playoffs as a WC.

The MLB media environment, both traditional and digital, has a tendency to automatically venerate big money/big name rosters in the preseason...which obviously the Brewers are not.  Its not a knock on Murphy or the Brewers, they are just a very good team with a lot of good players that are performing as such, not a result of a mad scientist manager pulling the right controversial levers or taking a risk on a random player...IMO.

My recollection could certainly be flawed but I don't recall any major publications picking the Brewers to win the NL central. I remember a couple that picked them third (behind the Cubs/Pirates) and at least one that picked them fourth (only ahead of the Cardinals). IIRC, general consensus was that the Brewers weren't expected to make the playoffs (though I think all the articles I read made the same comment of, "...but we always say that so they'll probably make it."

I agree with your second paragraph. While I do think Murphy is fantastic, I think it's more a product of a great roster built by a great organization. I went into this season think that this roster was better than last year's roster and was surprised when most didn't seem to agree.
Quote from: Goose on January 15, 2023, 08:43:46 PM
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


The Sultan

Quote from: JWags85 on Today at 01:14:50 PM"Fall off" is pretty subjective IMO.  Cause I don't think there was any publication/website of note that had the Brewers any lower than 2nd in the Central (multiple still had them besting the Cubs in the division) and I think nearly all still had them making the playoffs as a WC.


They were widely expected to finish about 10-12 games below where they were last season, finish second in the standings and make it as a Wild Card.

I think that is obviously a fall off from a 97 win team that had the best record in baseball last year.
"I am one of those who think the best friend of a nation is he who most faithfully rebukes her for her sins—and he her worst enemy, who, under the specious and popular garb of patriotism, seeks to excuse, palliate, and defend them" - Frederick Douglass

MU82

Kick save and a beauty by Baltimore's Brandon Young:

"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Jockey

Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on Today at 02:01:34 PMI agree with your second paragraph. While I do think Murphy is fantastic, I think it's more a product of a great roster built by a great organization. I went into this season think that this roster was better than last year's roster and was surprised when most didn't seem to agree.

Totally agree. They have quite a few good players on the squad. They harken back to the early days (80s) of sabrmetrics when Bill James said the goal for every hitter is to not make an out. The Brewers haven't bought in to the '3 outcomes' that other teams still chase.

While I also thought the roster was better, that didn't extend to pitching. We had an unknown with Miz who we hoped would build on last year's success and an injury prone Woody. The rest of the starters were rookies or castoffs.


GB Warrior

Quote from: MU82 on Today at 02:09:14 PMKick save and a beauty by Baltimore's Brandon Young:



More shots on goal than Argentina

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