Ranking MU Coaches - Kevin O'Neil to Shaka Smart

[Galway Eagle]

Having tea parties with girls under 2?  I remember the sort of activities my 3 year old son and my 2.5 year old niece liked and/or sat still for at that age...those tea parties are for you and not them my friend.  Don't use your little girls as cover for your love of a proper English high tea as a proud Irishman 

Haha maybe tea party's a bit of a misnomer. It's more my 18mo old going "here dadda" hands me tea cup, "sit dadda" pours imaginary tea, "cheers dadda" cheers, then I go to take a sip then she yells "no!" Or "no mine!" Or "more?" And grabs the cup back. Wash rinse repeat.

[Pakuni]

To prepare for what could have been a Championship run, Shaka bolstered his lineup by bringing in Tre Norman, Zaide Lowery, and Al Amadou--none of whom would have been expected to contribute in their first year (and as it turned out, aren't contributing in their junior year).  And I believe he banked a scholarship that season as well.

That roster screamed for a couple of experienced senior role players to come in both to replace OMax and add depth for a deep NCAA run.

I think last year was worse. One last run with a senior trio of Kam-Stevie-Jop, with decent secondary players in Gold and Ross. And they get no help.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Haha maybe tea party's a bit of a misnomer. It's more my 18mo old going "here dadda" hands me tea cup, "sit dadda" pours imaginary tea, "cheers dadda" cheers, then I go to take a sip then she yells "no!" Or "no mine!" Or "more?" And grabs the cup back. Wash rinse repeat.

Been there and done that. Relish every single second because one day you'll wake up and they'll be teens and you will be lucky to get a "hi".

[brewcity77]

To prepare for what could have been a Championship run, Shaka bolstered his lineup by bringing in Tre Norman, Zaide Lowery, and Al Amadou--none of whom would have been expected to contribute in their first year (and as it turned out, aren't contributing in their junior year).  And I believe he banked a scholarship that season as well.

That roster screamed for a couple of experienced senior role players to come in both to replace OMax and add depth for a deep NCAA run.

This was definitely the original sin of RGV as a roster building model. I remember hearing in the summer of 2023 the original plan was that if O-Max left, they would go into the portal and get the best forward that didn't go to the NBA, with Tennessee's Olivier Nkhamhoua as the rumored target (transferred to an awful Michigan team instead).

Instead they stuck with Jop, who ended up okay but basically just a 25 mpg version of what he was as a sixth man, and Chase as the new sixth man, who was basically the same player as he had been as a freshman. No one really leveled up like they were counting on. There was incremental improvements, but nothing like how TK, Oso, Kam, and O-Max all leapt forward the year before.

That banked scholarship ended up going to Caedin in August, as I recall.

[Pakuni]

Back to the original question, KO rescued MU from the potential of topping out as an A-10 also-ran, and perhaps worse, so he'll always be #1 on my list.

[Billy Hoyle]

Back to the original question, KO rescued MU from the potential of topping out as an A-10 also-ran, and perhaps worse, so he'll always be #1 on my list.

KO rescued the program from becoming Loyola of Chicago, and Crean rescued us from becoming Dayton or SLU.

What do both have in common? Bill Cords made the decision to fire their predecessors (Dukiet was obvious but firing Deane was controversial) and hired KO and TC, both in-demand assistants. Cords does not get nearly enough credit as he should for saving MU basketball.

[Galway Eagle]

KO rescued the program from becoming Loyola of Chicago, and Crean rescued us from becoming Dayton or SLU.

What do both have in common? Bill Cords made the decision to fire their predecessors (Dukiet was obvious but firing Deane was controversial) and hired KO and TC, both in-demand assistants. Cords does not get nearly enough credit as he should for saving MU basketball.

Didn't cords hire Wojo or was like brought in as a consultant for the decision?

[Pakuni]

Didn't cords hire Wojo or was like brought in as a consultant for the decision?

He was interim AD.

[PointWarrior]

we always lose to bad dayton teams, that has not changed...

wait people say we wasted Kolek Oso & Kam with only getting a s16 and conference sweep and yet we're not going to say the same about the Amigos & Lazar? In 2009 we had a Jr Lazar, Senior Wes & Jerel after Dom went down, it's hardly like Travis going down in 2005 leaving a pretty empty cupboard.

Also let's not forget we had Losses to a bad Dayton team and a bad USF team with Dom, we weren't consistently playing to what that team should've been.

[burger]

Buzz then everyone else.....

[Hards Alumni]

Buzz then everyone else.....

LOL

[Galway Eagle]

Buzz then everyone else.....

Buzz's memory is skewed because he won 2 games in March during a very underwhelming 2011 season. He's not head and shoulders above Shaka or Crean.

[muwarrior69]

Buzz's memory is skewed because he won 2 games in March during a very underwhelming 2011 season. He's not head and shoulders above Shaka or Crean.

Redemption is a great thing. I can remember when most here despised Crean. I would rank Crean above the others not just because of his final 4 run. He really marketed the program like no other coach since Al. He got Marquette featured on ESPN's college game day. I think he would make a great AD for the University.

[Pakuni]

we had Losses to a bad Dayton team

On account of being from Dayton, all Dayton teams are bad.

[burger]

LOL

By the numbers....3 Sweet 16's and an Elite 8????

Silence?

Not talking methods....I am talking production....

Crean....One shot wonder (Wade....and what's funny...he knew it)  ....WOJO....Barely D-league.....Kevin O'Neil...Swearing Blowhard....Shaka....Yet to prove himself....

Listenning?

[The Sultan]

By the numbers....3 Sweet 16's and an Elite 8????

Silence?

Not talking methods....I am talking production....

Crean....One shot wonder (Wade....and what's funny...he knew it)  ....WOJO....Barely D-league.....Kevin O'Neil...Swearing Blowhard....Shaka....Yet to prove himself....

Listenning?

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2011/10/28/one-womans-stand-against-college-athletes-2/

[Uncle Rico]

By the numbers....3 Sweet 16's and an Elite 8????

Silence?

Not talking methods....I am talking production....

Crean....One shot wonder (Wade....and what's funny...he knew it)  ....WOJO....Barely D-league.....Kevin O'Neil...Swearing Blowhard....Shaka....Yet to prove himself....

Listenning?

lol

[The Equalizer]

That banked scholarship ended up going to Caedin in August, as I recall.

I forgot about Hamilton in my original post. Shaka brought in 4 frosh that year--Hamilton plus Lowery, Norman, and Amadou.

If I'm counting correctly, there was still a banked scholarship in addition to Caedin, which makes the failure to bring in a transfer to bolster the lineup even more egregious

https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/2023-24

[Pakuni]

By the numbers....3 Sweet 16's and an Elite 8????

Silence?

Not talking methods....I am talking production....

Crean....One shot wonder (Wade....and what's funny...he knew it)  ....WOJO....Barely D-league.....Kevin O'Neil...Swearing Blowhard....Shaka....Yet to prove himself....

Listenning?

Swearing? From a college basketball coach?

[Galway Eagle]

By the numbers....3 Sweet 16's and an Elite 8????

Silence?

Not talking methods....I am talking production....

Crean....One shot wonder (Wade....and what's funny...he knew it)  ....WOJO....Barely D-league.....Kevin O'Neil...Swearing Blowhard....Shaka....Yet to prove himself....

Listenning?

Alternatively:

6 seed despite returning Jerel, Wes, Lazar, & upper class role players Burke, Acier & Cubi. That's without mentioning Dom who was healthy for Ls to Dayton & USF. People crap on Shaka for roughly the same performance with less big name players in 2025.

6 seed I'll give him his dues here

11 seed, this wasn't a good season. It's like if Wojo had done something in 2017. It was a very pedestrian year.

3 seed, the S16 was fun but you can't tell me that that was your hope after being 2nd in the BE with the Jae as BE POY and DJO.

3 seed, I'll give him his dues here

Crap.

I'll say 2013 > 2023, both regular season titles, E8 > BE tournament/Rd 32/2 seed but it's closer than you're giving credit for

2024 > 2012, 2nd place, both S16 w/ higher expectations but 2 seed > 3 seed

2025 vs 2009, tough but I was definitely more let down in 2009 than 2025.

2010 > 2022

2014 > 2026 but to some crap is crap

That leaves 2011 as the outlier. I'd take 2022 or 2025 regular season over that giving Shaka a chance to have an equivalent season to those.

The general point is it's not "Buzz then everyone else"

[MU82]

If the OP didn't make it from KO on, the obvious choice would have been Dukiet. He could play the piano like no other!

[burger]

Alternatively:

6 seed despite returning Jerel, Wes, Lazar, & upper class role players Burke, Acier & Cubi. That's without mentioning Dom who was healthy for Ls to Dayton & USF. People crap on Shaka for roughly the same performance with less big name players in 2025.

6 seed I'll give him his dues here

11 seed, this wasn't a good season. It's like if Wojo had done something in 2017. It was a very pedestrian year.

3 seed, the S16 was fun but you can't tell me that that was your hope after being 2nd in the BE with the Jae as BE POY and DJO.

3 seed, I'll give him his dues here

Crap.

I'll say 2013 > 2023, both regular season titles, E8 > BE tournament/Rd 32/2 seed but it's closer than you're giving credit for

2024 > 2012, 2nd place, both S16 w/ higher expectations but 2 seed > 3 seed

2025 vs 2009, tough but I was definitely more let down in 2009 than 2025.

2010 > 2022

2014 > 2026 but to some crap is crap

That leaves 2011 as the outlier. I'd take 2022 or 2025 regular season over that giving Shaka a chance to have an equivalent season to those.

The general point is it's not "Buzz then everyone else"

That is why Shaka is TBD....This year was a major "strike" because of the "relationships" crap over "winning"

We were last place....Essentially....In a down year in the Big East....

[DefinitelyNotPorterMoser]

Crean is at the top for me, and I don't agree with what others have said that he was a one-hit wonder.

The biggest "what-if" in MU basketball history since Whitehead was tossed in the 1978 NCAA tournament is the 01-02 season. If Donald Little doesn't make the only 16-foot jumper of his career and Cincinnati doesn't knock off MU near the end of the season, I don't think MU follows it up with a loss to East Carolina. Those two losses dropped MU a full seed line, if not two, and they were stuck playing an underseeded Tulsa team in the first round. That could have been a Final Four team. It had better KenPom numbers than the 03 team.

I do think he had two terrible recruting classes after the Final Four run, but the 08 team was a lucky Robin Lopez shot away from the Sweet 16, and his fingerprints obviously would have been all over the 09 team's run (which was hurt by the Mbakwe transfer just as much as the James injury).

Another perspective: I'm not sure MU gets the Big East invite without Crean's early success.

I'd put Shaka slightly over KO for second. Shaka has had more success, KO returned MU to relevency at a crucial time. Like with the 02 and 03 teams, I think the 23 team was better than the 24 team and with the way the bracket unfolded, it's not a huge leap to think that team could have played for a national title.

Buzz had some great teams and memorable players. They had an identity. They also played some brutal offensive basketball at times (see the 2012 and 2013 NCAA ousters).

Wojo was better than most MU fans give him credit for. The most frustrating part of his tenury, however, was the fact that his teams seemed to regress as the season wore on. And butchering the Howard-Hausers relationship was pretty bad. He also was the only MU coach in this group to not win a NCAA tournament game.

[Galway Eagle]

That is why Shaka is TBD....This year was a major "strike" because of the "relationships" crap over "winning"

We were last place....Essentially....In a down year in the Big East....

Ok well then I'll do a bunch of arguing how 5, 3 (FF), 7, 8, 6 (RD32) + one Travis injury away from another bid. Isn't a massive gap below Buzz.

2003 > 2013

08 = 09 except 09 had higher expectations so 08 gets an edge

2005 > 2014

2002 > 2010

2012 > 2007/2006 but regular season 2007/2006 > 2011.

Again the gap isn't as massive as you're indicating. I'll give the edge to Buzz but it's largely just that Buzz won 2 games with Jimmy to erase what would've been a very forgettable of a year.