Big East job rankings

[GoldenWarrior11]

Looking at this list, which is a fair assessment IMO (certainly some wiggle room based on argument), it is interesting to see how the BE programs made hires in recent seasons:

Villanova #2 - for arguably being the second most desired job in the conference, and hiring a coach like Kevin Willard is interesting.  Willard is a strong coach, no doubt.  He is a clear improvement from Neptune, but certainly many steps down from Wright.  Willard never previously made it beyond the S16 before last year (and that was the only S16 appearance he has ever had as a HC).  If it is the second-most desired job in the conference, and a candidate like Willard is the best you can get at a program like Nova, not sure I would place Villanova as #2 IMO. 

Creighton #4 - McDermott has been there over fifteen years, and has elevated the program into being in the top-half of the Big East; however, in his announced succession plan, they did not really open it up and conduct a national search.  They hired Huss, a former assistant and (then) sitting head coach at High Point.  I think Huss will keep the train moving at Creighton, but it would have been interesting to see what they could have done if they actually opened it up.  Again, if Huss is the best candidate for the #4 in the league, not sure how desired it really was. 

I'd argue, based on Pitino, St. John's is higher.  They are clearly spending a ton on its roster and staff.  Would they do that for any head coach?  Probably not, but a successful name head coach could easily go there with resources if/when Pitino retires. 

I'd also argue that Georgetown should be lower and Butler should be higher.  Georgetown is not the Georgetown of old.  Can they be a perennial tournament program?   Absolutely.  But the last two hiring cycles that led to Ewing and Cooley - if that is the best that they could have gotten, based on program history, not sure they are in the upper half.  Butler is a program, regardless of head coach, that can compete and make the NCAAT annually.  It should be a highly desired job for any successful mid-major head coach looking to jump into the high-major pool. 

DePaul being at #11 is spot-on.  They still don't have an on-campus practice facility (designated for basketball); their home arena isn't on campus and far away; they are building a fan base (again), but it still is not here.  They have no history (past 25 years) to build on, and the record of previous head coaches after DePaul is not good.

[Hards Alumni]

Butler is a dump and should have never been invited to the Big East.

I have had this opinion since they came in.

[Pakuni]

Butler is a dump and should have never been invited to the Big East.

I have had this opinion since they came in.

Just be grateful it wasn't Dayton.

[Viper]

Butler is a dump and should have never been invited to the Big East.

I have had this opinion since they came in.

agreed. They caught lightning in a bottle with Stevens. I never liked the Creighton add either (new BE needed teams and they checked boxes), but they have nice facilities and have done well.

[DFW HOYA]

I'd also argue that Georgetown should be lower and Butler should be higher.  Georgetown is not the Georgetown of old.  Can they be a perennial tournament program?  Absolutely.  But the last two hiring cycles that led to Ewing and Cooley - if that is the best that they could have gotten, based on program history, not sure they are in the upper half. 

Cooley was the best they could get. The backup plan, assuming there was one, was Shrewsberry, and look how that's turning out. The next coaching search won't even draw candidates at that level.

[Billy Hoyle]

agreed. They caught lightning in a bottle with Stevens. I never liked the Creighton add either (new BE needed teams and they checked boxes), but they have nice facilities and have done well.

Yes, they did, but they were able to sustain it for a while. They have made three NCAA tournaments since joining the BE (with four total wins, one more than Shaka has at MU) and would have made it in 2020 (22-9). They are upping their NIL, too.

The BE got it right in inviting Butler and Creighton over SLU and Dayton, who desperately wanted an invite. What were better options to get to 10?

[Pakuni]

agreed. They caught lightning in a bottle with Stevens. I never liked the Creighton add either (new BE needed teams and they checked boxes), but they have nice facilities and have done well.

Stevens obviously took them to new heights, but Butler made the tournament six times in the 11 years before Stevens got the job. And made two Sweet 16s in that time.
They were arguably better in the decade before Stevens than they have been since joining the BE.

[Billy Hoyle]

Creighton #4 - McDermott has been there over fifteen years, and has elevated the program into being in the top-half of the Big East; however, in his announced succession plan, they did not really open it up and conduct a national search.  They hired Huss, a former assistant and (then) sitting head coach at High Point.  I think Huss will keep the train moving at Creighton, but it would have been interesting to see what they could have done if they actually opened it up.  Again, if Huss is the best candidate for the #4 in the league, not sure how desired it really was. 

I'd argue, based on Pitino, St. John's is higher.  They are clearly spending a ton on its roster and staff.  Would they do that for any head coach?  Probably not, but a successful name head coach could easily go there with resources if/when Pitino retires. 

DePaul being at #11 is spot-on.  They still don't have an on-campus practice facility (designated for basketball); their home arena isn't on campus and far away; they are building a fan base (again), but it still is not here.  They have no history (past 25 years) to build on, and the record of previous head coaches after DePaul is not good.

On Creighton, a succession plan was always the plan for them. For a while, it was DeVries until Mac decided to keep coaching, and DeVries decided to move on from Drake. Gonzaga was in a similar situation: Tommy Lloyd was the guy, but Few kept coaching, and like DeVries, he got tired of waiting, so they designated Michaelson as their coach-in-waiting. I don't think that says anything negative about the program. Creighton is probably the strongest overall athletic program in the BE and has major money backing hoops. They are the pro team in Omaha.

St John's has pretty poor on-campus facilities, and until the Slickster was hired, it was striking out on coaching searches constantly. And let's face it, if he hadn't been banished to Iona, they would not have been able to hire Pitino.

DePaul does have a really nice practice facility that was recently approved for construction. Considering it's Chicago and Lincoln Park specifically, I anticipate it being opened sometime around 2037. They are likely to lose their AD soon, too.

Butler needs to do some soul-searching about Matta.

[Pakuni]

I'd argue, based on Pitino, St. John's is higher.  They are clearly spending a ton on its roster and staff.  Would they do that for any head coach?  Probably not, but a successful name head coach could easily go there with resources if/when Pitino retires. 

The thing about Pitino is he'd be toxic/untouchable for a lot of programs, including Marquette. So his hiring is less reflection of the desirability of that job than it is the program's tolerance for the risks (and future sanctions) that come with the hire.

[JWags85]

Marquette can land a good college basketball coach and is an attractive job, but if they're landing a high major coach it's most likely a situation like Shaka when he came to Marquette.  Someone running away from their current job.  The most likely scenario would be a good mid major coach moving up, which can certainly be a great hire.

I think it's fair to say Louisville is a better job than Marquette.  They hired a coach from the College of Charleston (who was far from their first choice, as guys like Mick Cronin, Scott Drew, Dusty May, and Eric Mussleman were rumored to have been their targets).  Indiana is a better job than Marquette, and hired a guy who spent one year at West Virginia after having been the coach of Drake.  Kentucky hired the head coach from BYU, before BYU was able to use their Mormon money to make it an attractive place to be a student athlete and had been in the WCC.  Michigan hired the coach at Florida Atlantic.

To be fair, Louisville, while I agree is a better job in totality, had been an absolute disaster post-Pitino.  Mack is a fantastic coach and had struggles there for a variety of reason, beyond assistant coach extortion.  And then Kenny Payne took the wheel of program that was taking on water and drove it full steam ahead into an iceberg.  I don't blame guys in good gigs/that had plenty of suitors for avoiding that.  I think Marquette in the open market for a coach in the same cycle would have been more attractive than Louisville, post-Kenny Payne.

And I think thats a bit of an undersell on Indiana and Devries.  Short of MAKING THE CALL TO BRAD STEVENS or the idea that they could lure Scott Drew, Devries was amongst the hottest candidates in the country for a few years before going to WVU.  He was as coveted, if you believe most reports, as any of the power conference coaches (within reason). Same with Dusty May.

Kind of funny that the one very successful high major coach that got lured to another job went to USC, of all places, which isn't even a top 5 job in their conference.

But overall, I actually agree with you.  And its not even a slight to Marquette, I just think at this point there are VERY VERY few jobs that would snatch a successful high major HC away (Kansas, Duke, and maybe MSU are all I can think of) short of there being an alumni or family connection.  Marquette is in a large group of programs, some a bit better and some a bit worse, that can attract very good coaches situationally, but aren't going to poach a consistent S16/conference title winning coach from a P5 conference unless they, like you said, are wanting out for some reason.

[JWags85]

Stevens obviously took them to new heights, but Butler made the tournament six times in the 11 years before Stevens got the job. And made two Sweet 16s in that time.
They were arguably better in the decade before Stevens than they have been since joining the BE.

If Stevens had never made a championship game (much less 2 obviously) and instead had 2 Round of 32 exits those years, maybe a S16...they still would have been a no brainer.  Butler was the most consistent and well run mid major program in the country (IMO) for 15 years before they got into the BE.  That 15 years included 10 conference championships and 11 NCAA trips.

Until Brandon Miller struggled that first year in the BE, every coach since and including Barry Collier made multiple NCAA tournaments and had multiple conference titles (ok I guess Matta was just there for a year but given what he did in his season and what he left for Lickliter/what Lickliter did in year 1, I'm pretty confident he would have had 2 in a row)

[Viper]

Yes, they did, but they were able to sustain it for a while. They have made three NCAA tournaments since joining the BE (with four total wins, one more than Shaka has at MU) and would have made it in 2020 (22-9). They are upping their NIL, too.

The BE got it right in inviting Butler and Creighton over SLU and Dayton, who desperately wanted an invite. What were better options to get to 10?

that was the conundrum...what better options.

[tower912]

Reality.

[Zog from Margo]

Huh...the kind of coach you'd throw in a Wishlist thread of a hoops message board, perhaps??
You're right, should have just put in Brian Wardle.

No offense, but I'm not sure what your point is. If Otzelberger comes to MU, I guess I'll give you credit for predicting it. Wish away. I expect the past to be the best predictor of MU's future actions. MU's next coach will be an assistant from another program, a mid-major HC, or a power football conference coach who's not at his peak. Maybe they could get Chris Beard as a reclamation project. He's a very good coach.

[onepost]

No offense, but I'm not sure what your point is. If Otzelberger comes to MU, I guess I'll give you credit for predicting it. Wish away. I expect the past to be the best predictor of MU's future actions. MU's next coach will be an assistant from another program, a mid-major HC, or a power football conference coach who's not at his peak. Maybe they could get Chris Beard as a reclamation project. He's a very good coach.

Huh? Where did I ever predict this? I said I'd love him as our coach, literally nothing more than that. It was Elonsmusk and withoutbias who took that simple post and encouraged me to go out and get laid.

[GoldenEagles03]

No offense, but I'm not sure what your point is. If Otzelberger comes to MU, I guess I'll give you credit for predicting it. Wish away. I expect the past to be the best predictor of MU's future actions. MU's next coach will be an assistant from another program, a mid-major HC, or a power football conference coach who's not at his peak. Maybe they could get Chris Beard as a reclamation project. He's a very good coach.

Now that's an idea!

[Hards Alumni]

If Stevens had never made a championship game (much less 2 obviously) and instead had 2 Round of 32 exits those years, maybe a S16...they still would have been a no brainer.  Butler was the most consistent and well run mid major program in the country (IMO) for 15 years before they got into the BE.  That 15 years included 10 conference championships and 11 NCAA trips.

Until Brandon Miller struggled that first year in the BE, every coach since and including Barry Collier made multiple NCAA tournaments and had multiple conference titles (ok I guess Matta was just there for a year but given what he did in his season and what he left for Lickliter/what Lickliter did in year 1, I'm pretty confident he would have had 2 in a row)

Turns out it hard to run with the big boys.  They have a small school (2nd smallest behind legacy Providence), old facilities, and it isn't even a nationally ranked school.

If you want my other hot take, Xavier probably shouldn't have been invited either for the exact same reasons (though it is ranked... but not highly).

At the end of the day, I know why those schools were invited (media market, recent success, coaches).  Creighton is a much better fit than either of them.

Say what you want about SLU and Dayton, but they're better fits in every way long term... even though they're both gross.

[Billy Hoyle]

that was the conundrum...what better options.

Considering the overall athletic success Creighton has achieved, and not just in Men's hoops (5 BET finals appearances, two sweet 16 appearances, and one weak foul call from a Final Four), they were the right choice.

[Newsdreams]

IMO, that is better than just HCs. Is that your point?

I say like coaches poll, it's student managers answering

[Elonsmusk]

Would you say it's dumber than comparing John Dawson to Magic Johnson?

Anyhow, I've repeatedly said I don't think Shaka's seat is hot right now, so I'm, not sure why you keep saying otherwise. Unless, you know, you've got no other intelligent response here.

Why not just admit your claims that Marquette is poor and couldn't hope to be an attractive job is a canard? It would be far less embarrassing for you than these responses.

Saying a guy made some Magic Johnson like passes in a game isn't saying he's going to be Magic Johnson as a player - just another strawman argument from you the king of strawmans.

As for MU being a good job - yes, it is a good job.  I never said it wasn't.  I've said MU needs Shaka more than Shaka needs MU.  Marquette isn't going to get a better proven high major coach than Shaka.  I mean I know you have a hard on for Chris Gerlufsen from San Francisco (for reasons unknown) but it is super odd that he's your suggested candidate for the job were it to open. 

Of course the MU job would be attractive to a guy like that with his thin resume, still in his search for his first NCAA tournament selection.  But why would you think firing Shaka (as you've suggested should happen if he has another bad season next year) would be the best move to replace him with a guy like Gerlufsen??

[WhiteTrash]

Considering the overall athletic success Creighton has achieved, and not just in Men's hoops (5 BET finals appearances, two sweet 16 appearances, and one weak foul call from a Final Four), they were the right choice.

Creighton turned out to be a great addition to the BE. Plus they went from USNWR Regional University to a National University about 5 years ago. They have added as much as they have gained from the BE. Now, about that team in Lincoln Park ....

[WhiteTrash]

I say like coaches poll, it's student managers answering

Well your point is valid if they are not actually polling HCs and ACs, but assuming they are being truthful, I think the assistant's would add a lot of perspective that HCs would not, and thus make it more valid as to the perception of jobs.

But, yes the whole thing trash if it is a bunch of assistant ADs responding.

[Galway Eagle]

Turns out it hard to run with the big boys.  They have a small school (2nd smallest behind legacy Providence), old facilities, and it isn't even a nationally ranked school.

If you want my other hot take, Xavier probably shouldn't have been invited either for the exact same reasons (though it is ranked... but not highly).

At the end of the day, I know why those schools were invited (media market, recent success, coaches).  Creighton is a much better fit than either of them.

Say what you want about SLU and Dayton, but they're better fits in every way long term... even though they're both gross.

That's a pretty wild hot take, Xavier was more successful for longer than either of those two and farther east. They were the only one that was a shoe in. Maybe I'm underestimating how much a school's ranking counts in high major athletics but not long ago Nova was only regionally ranked in US news so I can't imagine it's that big of a deal.

[MarquetteMike1977]

I've been told by some here that MU would struggle to find a competent replacement willing to take the job if Shaka were to leave.



https://x.com/TheFieldOf68/status/2009263960373997728?s=20

Marquette has been strong since Shaka got here but Up until 2026 this year was a complete bust. The program is strong and this year should have been better. All we can do is try and salvage this year by The Crown or NIT. Shaka helped destroy the beginning part of this year but his record is Very solid and believe Shaka is not going anywhere and Marquette will Bounce back.

[Hards Alumni]

That's a pretty wild hot take, Xavier was more successful for longer than either of those two and farther east. They were the only one that was a shoe in. Maybe I'm underestimating how much a school's ranking counts in high major athletics but not long ago Nova was only regionally ranked in US news so I can't imagine it's that big of a deal.

And yet, their coach always left.  For a long time Xavier was beating up on A10 schools.  They had great success in the tournament, but a lot of coaching turn over has always been their problem.  Probably a good reason for that.