Let's talk defense

[MuggsyB]

I know I'll be ridiculed for starting a new thread, but this is an extremely urgent matter that must be corrected.  Once teams break our pressure, it's essentially a sieve. 

My take is that we often overhedge and  overpressure.   Getting steals and transition buckets is great, but it's a high risk proposition if you do it every possession.  I think on perimeter our scouting and positioning needs to be better.  Know your opponent and the games.  I'm not sure that was the case today.  Whatever happened to forcing guys to their weak hand?

As far as the interior is concerned?  I hate to say it but other than Ben at times it's truly been like the Hindenburg.   Are they too upright?  Not quick enough vs the perimeter?  Reach too much?  We simply must up our intensity and focus on the defensive end 100 fold. 

[Uncle Rico]

I know I'll be ridiculed for starting a new thread, but this is an extremely urgent matter that must be corrected.  Once teams break our pressure, it's essentially a sieve. 

My take is that we often overhedge and  overpressure.   Getting steals and transition buckets is great, but it's a high risk proposition if you do it every possession.  I think on perimeter our scouting and positioning needs to be better.  Know your opponent and the games.  I'm not sure that was the case today.  Whatever happened to forcing guys to their weak hand?

As far as the interior is concerned?  I hate to say it but other than Ben at times it's truly been like the Hindenburg.   Are they too upright?  Not quick enough vs the perimeter?  Reach too much?  We simply must up our intensity and focus on the defensive end 100 fold. 

You can't play this kind of defense without shooting better.

[Newsdreams]

Need to be more medieval....

[MuggsyB]

Need to be more medieval....

My terminology isn't the problem.   Rico is right:  11-40 from 3?  9-20 from 2 feet?  Ridiculous percentages. 

[Uncle Rico]

My terminology isn't the problem.   Rico is right:  11-40 from 3?  9-20 from 2 feet?  Ridiculous percentages. 

Far easier to press and attack off made baskets.  Even then, you better be solid defensively in the middle to do so to help erase when pressure is broken. 

Shaka brought in Luke Yaklich when his defense struggled at Texas.  If the season goes badly, he'll have to reevaluate the staff and make changes.

[mileskishnish72]

When the pressure doesn't work it becomes a layup line. More concerning is the set
halfcourt D - there have been multiple instances of a lack of communication where instead of calling the switch two guys go with one opponent leaving another totally alone - with predictable results.

[MuggsyB]

When the pressure doesn't work it becomes a layup line. More concerning is the set
halfcourt D - there have been multiple instances of a lack of communication where instead of calling the switch two guys go with one opponent leaving another totally alone - with predictable results.

We may have to abandon the Caedin/Ben combo? 

[brewcity77]

We may have to abandon the Caedin/Ben combo? 

There was one steal Caedin had in the second half where I think he was the only person more surprised than I was that he stripped it. Managed to get it to a guard to turn upcourt, but him making a positive defensive play felt shocking. I genuinely don't know what he does in practice to convince the staff he's earning these minutes.

[Daniel]

Could move Ben back to center.    Our D is atrocious, and this year it was supposed to be good.     We gave up 373 points in 5 games and 2 cupcakes are disguising the real rate.   Man.   Very surprised by this

[CountryRoads]

There was one steal Caedin had in the second half where I think he was the only person more surprised than I was that he stripped it. Managed to get it to a guard to turn upcourt, but him making a positive defensive play felt shocking. I genuinely don't know what he does in practice to convince the staff he's earning these minutes.

Ask one of Rothstein's moles who rave about him every year. Feels like a coach's son type situation in youth basketball at this point, which is the most concerning thing to me. I'm not optimistic he turns it around and would prefer we don't run it back with him next year. I feel bad that I feel this way.

[brewcity77]

Ask one of Rothstein's moles who rave about him every year. Feels like a coach's son type situation in youth basketball at this point, which is the most concerning thing to me. I'm not optimistic he turns it around and would prefer we don't run it back with him next year. I feel bad that I feel this way.

I heard similar things out of practice this summer and was very skeptical (hence "Fetch") that he would be the difference maker they claimed.

[panda]

I heard similar things out of practice this summer and was very skeptical (hence "Fetch") that he would be the difference maker they claimed.

I understand they're trying to build his confidence with these types of statements but the question is why? The talent is non existent and we have players around him who actually know where to stand on the court etc.

[Viper]

I understand they're trying to build his confidence with these types of statements but the question is why? The talent is non existent and we have players around him who actually know where to stand on the court etc.

agreed. I mean, no fg attempts? Did take 7 FT's, so there's that. But even 6pts/6tebs per, which seems pedestrian for a starter in his 3rd year in the program, apparently is too much to hope for. I feel like Parnham will get it going, but if Hamilton and Owens are what they are, it's difficult to overcome.

[brewcity77]

I understand they're trying to build his confidence with these types of statements but the question is why? The talent is non existent and we have players around him who actually know where to stand on the court etc.

I imagine it's because they think he could develop into a solid Big East starter. He's shown flashes of passing, his body has improved, but I'm guessing it might be that he looks good in practice because he has a physical advantage on Parham and experience advantage on Clark, who are similarly not there yet.

[Uncle Rico]

agreed. I mean, no fg attempts? Did take 7 FT's, so there's that. But even 6pts/6tebs per, which seems pedestrian for a starter in his 3rd year in the program, apparently is too much to hope for. I feel like Parnham will get it going, but if Hamilton and Owens are what they are, it's difficult to overcome.

Who is Parnham?

[Viper]

Who is Parnham?

misspelled. My bad. Sorry to the guy. I think you know who I'm referring to.

[MU82]

I know I'll be ridiculed for starting a new thread, but this is an extremely urgent matter that must be corrected.  Once teams break our pressure, it's essentially a sieve. 

My take is that we often overhedge and  overpressure.   Getting steals and transition buckets is great, but it's a high risk proposition if you do it every possession.  I think on perimeter our scouting and positioning needs to be better.  Know your opponent and the games.  I'm not sure that was the case today.  Whatever happened to forcing guys to their weak hand?

As far as the interior is concerned?  I hate to say it but other than Ben at times it's truly been like the Hindenburg.   Are they too upright?  Not quick enough vs the perimeter?  Reach too much?  We simply must up our intensity and focus on the defensive end 100 fold. 

Can't believe you started a new thread.

[Newsdreams]

Can't believe you started a new thread.

This is why I now hate the animal kingdom

[tower912]

Didn't watch the game.  Based on the other games, the defensive issues are a lack of communication and, related, poor help.  A slightly different scheme this year, too.   The bigs are staying home.  Hence Ben averaging 8.5 rebounds a game and flirting with double doubles.  In past seasons, MU would switch 1-5 and, probably due to so many years playing together and near infinite reps, the switches were automatic, the trap were autimatic, the help was automatic.  The weakness was poor interior defense and poor defensive rebounding.  Oso and Ben were frequently near the perimeter when the shot went up.

They started adjusting it slightly last season.  Ben stayed home more on the post players and had some phenomenal defensive games.  Joplin worked his butt off and played a decent defensive 4.   Royce and Caedin played poor defense.

This season, they are absolutely not switching 1-5.   They are switching less than ever before.  IMO, the coaching staff thought they had the length, speed, and athleticism to guard more straight up.   It hasn't worked.  Some guys are simply lost guarding one on one.  And they are equally lost on the helps.   When to double, when to trap, when to hedge and recover.  And, most importantly, where to rotate when other players are attempting to double, hedge, and trap.

Like the discussion of the offense getting to the next action, the defense has to understand the next action, the next rotation, the next help.

I wonder if there was an assumption that the sophomores and juniors, having been immersed in it, would automatically get it.  So there was less drilling down to the nuts of it.

Based on Shaka's presser, practice today will be noisy.

[StillWarriors]

I know I'll be ridiculed for starting a new thread, but this is an extremely urgent matter that must be corrected.  Once teams break our pressure, it's essentially a sieve. 

My take is that we often overhedge and  overpressure.   Getting steals and transition buckets is great, but it's a high risk proposition if you do it every possession.  I think on perimeter our scouting and positioning needs to be better.  Know your opponent and the games.  I'm not sure that was the case today.  Whatever happened to forcing guys to their weak hand?

Becomes a bigger problem when the supposed pressure D is not generating steals, and even the deflections have been down against non-cupcakes.

[Scoop Snoop]

It hasn't worked.  Some guys are simply lost guarding one on one.  And they are equally lost on the helps.  When to double, when to trap, when to hedge and recover.  And, most importantly, where to rotate when other players are attempting to double, hedge, and trap.

All I can add to your spot on comments is the word "how" to when and where.

[brewcity77]

I wonder if there was an assumption that the sophomores and juniors, having been immersed in it, would automatically get it.  So there was less drilling down to the nuts of it.

This feels right. When Owens, Parham, & Hamilton look less comfortable on defense than NJ & Stevens who just got here, that's a problem.

It feels like part of the problem may be the staff's own success. O-Max, Oso, TK, Kam, Stevie, Jop, Gold, Chase, they all developed in relatively short order into good to great defenders. It might've created the belief that would continue, but it doesn't seem to. And when it's backed up by unreliable offense from the same class of sophomores, it really leaves a gap in the rotation.

[wiscwarrior]

Didn't watch the game.  Based on the other games, the defensive issues are a lack of communication and, related, poor help.  A slightly different scheme this year, too.   The bigs are staying home.  Hence Ben averaging 8.5 rebounds a game and flirting with double doubles.  In past seasons, MU would switch 1-5 and, probably due to so many years playing together and near infinite reps, the switches were automatic, the trap were autimatic, the help was automatic.  The weakness was poor interior defense and poor defensive rebounding.  Oso and Ben were frequently near the perimeter when the shot went up.

They started adjusting it slightly last season.  Ben stayed home more on the post players and had some phenomenal defensive games.  Joplin worked his butt off and played a decent defensive 4.   Royce and Caedin played poor defense.

This season, they are absolutely not switching 1-5.   They are switching less than ever before.  IMO, the coaching staff thought they had the length, speed, and athleticism to guard more straight up.   It hasn't worked.  Some guys are simply lost guarding one on one.  And they are equally lost on the helps.   When to double, when to trap, when to hedge and recover.  And, most importantly, where to rotate when other players are attempting to double, hedge, and trap.

Like the discussion of the offense getting to the next action, the defense has to understand the next action, the next rotation, the next help.

I wonder if there was an assumption that the sophomores and juniors, having been immersed in it, would automatically get it.  So there was less drilling down to the nuts of it.

Based on Shaka's presser, practice today will be noisy.

I'm just an ignorant lurker and eternal optimist, but based on your analysis these issues seem fixable this year. It doesn't seem to be about talent.