It's one game, but.....

[wadesworld]

my fav thing in sports is winning. Anyway, anyhow. Win now. Tired of players that must 'develop'. Today? We basically got smoked by a MVC team.

An MVC team? Tell me you don't pay attention to basketball without telling me you don't pay attention to basketball.

[wadesworld]

I hope we aren't comparing Marquette to the Brewers. I would like to think Marquette has a chance to compete for championships eventually. The Brewers will never.

It's way more likely the Brewers win a WS than MU wins a national title. Spending in college athletics is just as uneven as in the MLB. If college athletics puts something to the effect of a salary cap in place, we know programs will pay under the table. There's 30 MLB teams. There's 366 college basketball teams. It's unrealistic to expect a national title for Marquette. Possible? Of course. But extremely unlikely.

[Farley36]

Leave it to scoop to argue about two shitty teams and which is shittier.

[DoctorV]

Leave it to scoop to argue about two shitty teams and which is shittier.

Do you support any non shitty teams, Farley?

[GoldenEagles03]

It's way more likely the Brewers win a WS than MU wins a national title. Spending in college athletics is just as uneven as in the MLB. If college athletics puts something to the effect of a salary cap in place, we know programs will pay under the table. There's 30 MLB teams. There's 366 college basketball teams. It's unrealistic to expect a national title for Marquette. Possible? Of course. But extremely unlikely.

I still disagree! For a mid major school sure. Marquette is a major college basketball program that can position themselves to win and puts themselves in position to win often.

There are people in here that have seen Marquette win a Championship. We've even seen them make a Final Four. Nobody has ever or probably will ever see the Brewers win.

[GB Warrior]

I'm not quite sure why we're conflating two incompatible sports but if we're looking at how much 'trying' each team does, the Brewers turn over every possible rock to acquire talent, and they fail fast when a particular piece doesn't work. Time will tell for Marquette - they obviously need to sleep in the bed they've made for this year.

[wadesworld]

I still disagree! For a mid major school sure. Marquette is a major college basketball program that can position themselves to win and puts themselves in position to win often.

There are people in here that have seen Marquette win a Championship. We've even seen them make a Final Four. Nobody has ever or probably will ever see the Brewers win.

Anyone who saw Marquette win a national title also saw the Brewers lose in a game 7 of a World Series.

The Brewers had a game 7 NLCS home game in the last decade. Just by a numbers game, they're competing with way fewer teams for a title.

[brewcity77]

Ehh.

Senior year of Kolek/Oso had a better chance of winning a championship than the Brewers did this year in what was one of their best seasons ever.

I think Junior year was a better chance, considering how it played out. If Tyler doesn't break his hand against Vermont, then follow it up with a career high in turnovers against Michigan State, the path of K-State, FAU, San Diego State, UConn (who we beat 2/3) was a very manageable path to a Championship.

Senior year, we would've had to beat a Purdue team that beat us earlier in the season and a UConn team that beat us three times by an average of 17 points and always by at least three possessions.

But I also think Marquette has a better chance at winning a title just because of how the NCAA Tournament works. In a 7-game series, the best team is more often to win, and as the Dodgers showed, the Brewers just don't have the financial wherewithal to be that team. In 2023, if Tyler doesn't break his hand, we would have been favored in every game until the first Monday in April.

[GoldenEagles03]

I think Junior year was a better chance, considering how it played out. If Tyler doesn't break his hand against Vermont, then follow it up with a career high in turnovers against Michigan State, the path of K-State, FAU, San Diego State, UConn (who we beat 2/3) was a very manageable path to a Championship.

Senior year, we would've had to beat a Purdue team that beat us earlier in the season and a UConn team that beat us three times by an average of 17 points and always by at least three possessions.

But I also think Marquette has a better chance at winning a title just because of how the NCAA Tournament works. In a 7-game series, the best team is more often to win, and as the Dodgers showed, the Brewers just don't have the financial wherewithal to be that team. In 2023, if Tyler doesn't break his hand, we would have been favored in every game until the first Monday in April.

Fair!

We did lose to Purdue by what? 3 and they hit a 75 footer at the halftime buzzer. Also getting UConn for a 4th time after they beat us in games 2 and 3 without Kolek would have been a fun twist!

But I totally get where you are coming from.

[Billy Hoyle]

I think Junior year was a better chance, considering how it played out. If Tyler doesn't break his hand against Vermont, then follow it up with a career high in turnovers against Michigan State, the path of K-State, FAU, San Diego State, UConn (who we beat 2/3) was a very manageable path to a Championship.

In 2023, if Tyler doesn't break his hand, we would have been favored in every game until the first Monday in April.

broken hand? It was reported that he injured his wrist and/or his thumb on his non-shooting hand I've never read anything about a broken hand. Was that kept on the DL?

[jesmu84]

You've pretty much summed up Jones right there.

I don't understand what people see in Sean. Super quick/athletic player with little to no significant offensive ability.

Can definitely use those traits to help the team.

But I don't believe he should be anywhere near the starting PG role or expectation

[WhiteTrash]

I don't understand what people see in Sean. Super quick/athletic player with little to no significant offensive ability.

Can definitely use those traits to help the team.

But I don't believe he should be anywhere near the starting PG role or expectation

This is fair.

[MU82]

Sean Jones made some huge shots for us in 2023-24 before he got injured, including arguably the biggest basket of the entire regular season (his game-winning 3 against UCLA in Maui).

So we saw him be a difference-maker in real time. Combine that with the extremely bullish accounts from the several months before this season began, including repeated praise from the head coach, and I don't think it was unreasonable for Marquette fans to expect him to be a positive contributor to this team.

[jfp61]

Sean Jones made some huge shots for us in 2023-24 before he got injured, including arguably the biggest basket of the entire regular season (his game-winning 3 against UCLA in Maui).

Because he was sagged off. He was 9/35 from three that year. Our offenses was so good that our oppenents thought him shooting open threes was the best way to beat us. I distinctly remember one of his made threes that year being a bank.

[MU82]

Because he was sagged off. He was 9/35 from three that year. Our offenses was so good that our oppenents thought him shooting open threes was the best way to beat us. I distinctly remember one of his made threes that year being a bank.

On a team filled with alphas, he had the guts to take and make that shot against UCLA.

And yes, he banked in a 3, against Creighton; he also made two others as part of his 15-point contribution that really helped us win that game. Few MU fans who watched that game said, "Meh, I bet Sean Jones will never be any good."

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Sean Jones made some huge shots for us in 2023-24 before he got injured, including arguably the biggest basket of the entire regular season (his game-winning 3 against UCLA in Maui).

So we saw him be a difference-maker in real time. Combine that with the extremely bullish accounts from the several months before this season began, including repeated praise from the head coach, and I don't think it was unreasonable for Marquette fans to expect him to be a positive contributor to this team.

Yes, he helped MU win a game.

Career, he is a 41% shooter, 27% from 3, with a 3 to 2 assist to turnover ratio, and his size makes him a liability on defense. I think the 52-game career stats are more indicative than cherry picking perhaps his most consequential effort.

Can he develop and get better? Sure, of course. But right now he is, at best, most suited as a 10-12 MPG change-of-pace backup.

[jfp61]

"Meh, I bet Sean Jones will never be any good."

Likewise, no one watched those 2 to 3 games and said, that 5'9" guy who doesn't shoot it well, he'll be good. He had the guts to shoot the ball as the unguarded man on a basketball court.

[Scoop Snoop]

"It's one game, but..."

But I'm looking forward to the next 4 games-all at Fiserv. As awful as the IU game was, our team has opportunities for redemption, even though two of the opponents are cupcakes. Wins over Dayton and Maryland would go a long way in getting over the IU game and instilling confidence going forward. I do not see the IU game as a foreshadowing of this season.

[jesmu84]

Sean Jones made some huge shots for us in 2023-24 before he got injured, including arguably the biggest basket of the entire regular season (his game-winning 3 against UCLA in Maui).

So we saw him be a difference-maker in real time. Combine that with the extremely bullish accounts from the several months before this season began, including repeated praise from the head coach, and I don't think it was unreasonable for Marquette fans to expect him to be a positive contributor to this team.

Bruh...

[BM1090]

If Marquette hadn't had to work through TK's injury I think their chance at reaching the final was realistic that year.

Nobody was taking down Uconn. 2023 UConn was beatable. 2024 UConn was significantly better than everyone.

[onepost]

I'm sure it's been mentioned on this board but I'm too lazy to look, so my apologies.
Cody Hatt was on Cam Marotta's pod and told the story about how he pushed for Shaka to take Tyler as a transfer when he first got the job.  Shaka was against it, didn't think he was a fit, but Hatt basically bullied him into calling Tyler.  Shaka loved Tyler and the rest is history.

That story, given the pretty steady decline the past 10 months, is a gigantic red flag for me.  Enormous.  Rather than Shaka seeing how incredibly wrong his intuition was with Tyler and using that gained knowledge to alter his strategy, he's seemingly doubling and tripling down with lousy project big men no one else even offered (Hamilton, Clark), unheralded guys like Ben Gold, Sean Jones (kinda, was well-known in Ohio), Zaide Lowery, and an iffy hit rate on his top 75 guys in Owens (BIG YIKES) and Parham (hasn't taken the step we all wanted him to, thus far).  Really the only unequivocal hit he's had is Chase.  ONE recruit in 4 years.

If we're not going to utilize the portal whatsoever, we need high school recruiting to be our big advantage.  And it's just not.  We need to be hitting on JJ Andrews, Kon Knueppel, Dooney Johnson, Cam Ward types, and instead we're getting the same caliber of recruit we've always gotten while taking a bunch of fliers on guys who are so clearly not Big East caliber players.  So we're getting fucked on both ends.

I loved the zag when everyone else zigged, but at a certain point you need to grow the unnatural carnal knowledge up and just do all you can to make this a competitive roster annually.  And that means taking transfers and taking swings on the same 5-star talent you did at Texas.  You're doing the fans and yourself a disservice by being this stubborn and getting run out of the gym by a meh Indiana team.

[MarquetteMike1977]

Indiana obviously had a very good shooting game.  Two guys were flamethrowers.  But that said, we defended horribly.  I'm not sure why we had such a difficult time with their screens.  You would have thought 🐘 🐘 were setting them.

On the offensive end, I don't think we're comfortable at all in our h-c sets.  We got to tbe line a ton on hard attacks whick was good.  However, we did a brutal job moving the basketball imo with very few ball reversals.  I thought we were extremely predictable.  I also think we can take that 4-6 foot floater occasionally. 

Owens is the biggest enigma to me.  I thought he'd be a major contributor. The bottom line is that game was a mess.  Hopefully, we'll get over it quickly and figure some things out. 

Agree. Indiana 14/28 from 3 Marquette 4-16. Indiana 7 Turnovers Marquette 15 Turnovers.
As you said get over it fast and figure it out.
Not easy for anyone to do. But would start by playing Chase Gold and James more than 30 minutes each. Have other ideas.

[Class71]

Nobody is longing for Woji but I am expressing some worry over the roster construction as long as Shaka refuses to bring in any transfers, particularly when two of his best players were transfers

I know Shaka says he will not take transfers. That he wants to develop players which is good for the players and the school but does he have a choice? Will Marquette base pony up the NIL money etc to get transfers etc? In my time Marquette University dropped football because it was too expensive. They only kept basketball because it was a money maker and to a lesser extent it gave them national recognition.

I believe in today's world of NIL etc. big schools, big conferences and big contributors will largely determine the top teams in the NCAA. Coaches are still very important but great coaches will generally not overcome good coaches with lots of talent that go where the money is.

Many of you follow this game more than I.  I suggest tracking the money players/teams get and how that stacks up against rankings/wins over the next few years. Will anybody be surprised if the winning blue bloods outspend most colleges?

Maybe KenPom will include that as a factor in his ranking methodology.

Of course, there will be exceptions but money tends to attract quality in most markets. I don't like it but the powers to be made the rule changes and smaller schools will likely suffer accordingly IMO.

[willie warrior]

I'm not quite sure why we're conflating two incompatible sports but if we're looking at how much 'trying' each team does, the Brewers turn over every possible rock to acquire talent, and they fail fast when a particular piece doesn't work. Time will tell for Marquette - they obviously need to sleep in the bed they've made for this year.

Not a very comfortable bed this year.

[The Sultan]

I know Shaka says he will not take transfers.

He has never said this.