'25-26 NBA Thread

[MU82]

So, for only 10 first-round draft picks and SGA, the brilliant Clippers acquired Leonard and Playoff P. Well done!

[MU82]

Exactly one year after Mark Cuban questioned Torre's reporting and declared himself to be on "Team Ballmer," he posted a congratulatory note to Torre for excellent reporting.

[MU82]

Jalen Brunson to host SNL's season opener.

[MU82]

After vowing to fight, Ballmer backed down and agreed to the NBA's punishment.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/breaking-news/article/clippers-owner-steve-ballmer-accepting-nbas-punishment-after-kawhi-leonard-scandal-not-pursuing-legal-battle-030714341.html?

[WhiteTrash]

After vowing to fight, Ballmer backed down and agreed to the NBA's punishment.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/breaking-news/article/clippers-owner-steve-ballmer-accepting-nbas-punishment-after-kawhi-leonard-scandal-not-pursuing-legal-battle-030714341.html?

That is good for the whole NBA. Continuing to play this out, and the associated evidence coming to the light of day, would only serve his ego but not the league he is invested in. Best for everyone to move on as quickly and quietly as possible. 

[MuggsyB]

The Portland Trailblazers fired their new TV pbp announcer, on the same day they hired him, over past Tweets he made when he was 15 years old.  Tweets he made 15 years ago.  In other news, the Blazers signed Ja Morant over the summer. 

[The Sultan]

The Portland Trailblazers fired their new TV pbp announcer, on the same day they hired him, over past Tweets he made when he was 15 years old.  Tweets he made 15 years ago.  In other news, the Blazers signed Ja Morant over the summer. 

It was pretty easy for the guy to avoid this...

1. Don't make racist tweets.
2. If you can't manage to do #1, delete your racist tweets.

I mean, are you suggesting we feel sorry for the guy?

[MuggsyB]

It was pretty easy for the guy to avoid this...

1. Don't make racist tweets.
2. If you can't manage to do #1, delete your racist tweets.

I mean, are you suggesting we feel sorry for the guy?

I think we should scour the internet for every Tweet or comment ever made by team owners, management, announcers, and athletes.  Especially when they were 15.  If any of them posted anything close to this guy, their career should be over. 

[The Sultan]

I think we should scour the internet for every Tweet or comment ever made by team owners, management, announcers, and athletes.  Especially when they were 15.  If any of them posted anything close to this guy, their career should be over. 

Go for it. Find them. Send them to Hannity and Tucker.

But know going into it that a replacement-level television guy has a much lower standard in that regard than team owners, management and athletes.

But those guys are usually smarter than this dude.

[tower912]

Nervous, Muggsy?

[JWags85]

It was pretty easy for the guy to avoid this...

1. Don't make racist tweets.
2. If you can't manage to do #1, delete your racist tweets.

I mean, are you suggesting we feel sorry for the guy?

I mean, the bar for what constitutes a racist tweet has gotten pretty low if this is what is severe enough to get someone fired, especially given the age and content of the tweets.  I expected slurs or something truly problematic, which there really wasn't.

I think more ridiculous part of the story to me is the Blazers handling of this.  Going through the whole interviewing and hiring process to only then bring this up and fire him within 24 hours.  Makes it look like either a set-up to make the Blazers look heroic, or there are people within the Blazers organization (or have their ear to some extent) that immediately takes it on themselves to vet someone like this after the fact, once they are announced, and find things they deem inappropriate.  The cynical side of me is not remotely shocked this happened in Portland versus almost any other NBA city.

If you want to argue in the age of AI, people should use tools to go back and clean up their social media, ok, fair enough point.  But I can understand a regional PxP guy, who has already for both an NBA organization and a WNBA team for multiple years, not having the content of his tweets from 15 years ago as top of mind for something he should take care of.  I don't think that makes him particularly stupid, maybe naive.

I remember one of the "Wayback Machine" apps a few years ago showing an exchange with a close friend of mine calling me "gay" about something on my Facebook wall when we were college freshman.  My friend would get buried by some people for it now...even though his brother came out a few years later, he actually introduced him to his brother's now husband, and I remember him calling me for advice on how to handle an uncle of theirs who was truly a homophobic bigot and was in the process of being removed from their extended family. I don't think he was stupid, or not particularly smart, for still having it up at that point, not sure when the last time he had even been on Facebook was.

The whole argument for this sort of punitive handling of "past tweets" or social media or whatever is around patterns of behavior.  IMO, Isolated incidents from someone's teens, especially a decade later, tells me next to nothing about the person now or the content of their character.  A racially insensitive comment as a teenager doesn't make someone a racist adult.  I'd feel the same way if someone had gotten arrested for fighting or shoplifting or vandalism as a teen but nothing as an adult.

In this case, I don't feel sorry for the guy, per se, cause if he's good at his job, which it seems like it is, he'll be fine and find PxP work elsewhere. It can and will be a learning experience cause he's likely not actually a problematic person.  I do, however, clearly think its a stupid precedent that not only doesn't lead to anything good down the line.

At this level, it doesn't actually do anything to solve systemic problems, injustices, etc... it just makes some people feel morally superior.  If we are talking actual notable public figures, athletes, etc... while I still think blanket firings or removals (attempted or otherwise) for old tweets and posts is stupid, I at least think there is opportunity for positive messaging, raising awareness, and setting of examples for fans and followers (see Josh Hader, Meyers Leonard, etc...)  Coincidentally, its also why comparing this to signing Ja Morant (any athlete situation) is silly, completely different playing fields.

[The Sultan]

I mean, the bar for what constitutes a racist tweet has gotten pretty low if this is what is severe enough to get someone fired, especially given the age and content of the tweets.  I expected slurs or something truly problematic, which there really wasn't.

I think more ridiculous part of the story to me is the Blazers handling of this.  Going through the whole interviewing and hiring process to only then bring this up and fire him within 24 hours.  Makes it look like either a set-up to make the Blazers look heroic, or there are people within the Blazers organization (or have their ear to some extent) that immediately takes it on themselves to vet someone like this after the fact, once they are announced, and find things they deem inappropriate.  The cynical side of me is not remotely shocked this happened in Portland versus almost any other NBA city.

If you want to argue in the age of AI, people should use tools to go back and clean up their social media, ok, fair enough point.  But I can understand a regional PxP guy, who has already for both an NBA organization and a WNBA team for multiple years, not having the content of his tweets from 15 years ago as top of mind for something he should take care of.  I don't think that makes him particularly stupid, maybe naive.

I remember one of the "Wayback Machine" apps a few years ago showing an exchange with a close friend of mine calling me "gay" about something on my Facebook wall when we were college freshman.  My friend would get buried by some people for it now...even though his brother came out a few years later, he actually introduced him to his brother's now husband, and I remember him calling me for advice on how to handle an uncle of theirs who was truly a homophobic bigot and was in the process of being removed from their extended family. I don't think he was stupid, or not particularly smart, for still having it up at that point, not sure when the last time he had even been on Facebook was.

The whole argument for this sort of punitive handling of "past tweets" or social media or whatever is around patterns of behavior.  IMO, Isolated incidents from someone's teens, especially a decade later, tells me next to nothing about the person now or the content of their character.  A racially insensitive comment as a teenager doesn't make someone a racist adult.  I'd feel the same way if someone had gotten arrested for fighting or shoplifting or vandalism as a teen but nothing as an adult.

In this case, I don't feel sorry for the guy, per se, cause if he's good at his job, which it seems like it is, he'll be fine and find PxP work elsewhere. It can and will be a learning experience cause he's likely not actually a problematic person.  I do, however, clearly think its a stupid precedent that not only doesn't lead to anything good down the line.

At this level, it doesn't actually do anything to solve systemic problems, injustices, etc... it just makes some people feel morally superior.  If we are talking actual notable public figures, athletes, etc... while I still think blanket firings or removals (attempted or otherwise) for old tweets and posts is stupid, I at least think there is opportunity for positive messaging, raising awareness, and setting of examples for fans and followers (see Josh Hader, Meyers Leonard, etc...)  Coincidentally, its also why comparing this to signing Ja Morant (any athlete situation) is silly, completely different playing fields.

Simple solution. Don't make racist tweets. No one claims the Blazers are solving anything. It's not about moral superiority. They don't want or need the distraction from their play by play guy.

[JWags85]

Simple solution. Don't make racist tweets. No one claims the Blazers are solving anything. It's not about moral superiority. They don't want or need the distraction from their play by play guy.

Ok glad to see you have zero interest in an actual discussion, enjoy the view from that high horse.  I'm sure you'd smugly applaud your own kids getting fired as an adult for something like this, they should have followed such simple solutions from birth, duh.

And FWIW, the Blazers created more of a distraction about this than anything about his employment, if it continued, would have, pure Streisand effect.

[The Sultan]

Ok glad to see you have zero interest in an actual discussion, enjoy the view from that high horse.  I'm sure you'd smugly applaud your own kids getting fired as an adult for something like this, they should have followed such simple solutions from birth, duh.

If being on my "high horse" means I think people shouldn't make racist tweets, then bring me my f*cking ladder. And I'm not engaging in "actual discussion" after seven paragraphs of nonsense making excuses for why people who make racist tweets really aren't racist.

And I don't have to worry about my kids getting fired for this...because they don't make racist tweets. It really is that simple.

And FWIW, the Blazers created more of a distraction about this than anything about his employment, if it continued, would have, pure Streisand effect.

The Blazers will be fine. They proactively addressed it and the story will be dead by the time the ball tips.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ok glad to see you have zero interest in an actual discussion, enjoy the view from that high horse.  I'm sure you'd smugly applaud your own kids getting fired as an adult for something like this, they should have followed such simple solutions from birth, duh.

And FWIW, the Blazers created more of a distraction about this than anything about his employment, if it continued, would have, pure Streisand effect.

Its simple math.  If given the choice between hiring an employee with a known history of posting racist tweets or a hiring an equally capable employee without a known history of posting racist tweets, 99% of companies will choose the latter. It's the best business decision.

It being the best business decision doesn't necessarily make it right or wrong, but it is what's best for the company. There's a discussion that can be had about when a company should go against its own self interest in the name of the greater good... but frankly I'd rather have that conversation in the context of addressing economic inequality or environmental protection than protecting people from being judged for the actions of their younger selves.

And FWIW, if this did happen to my kid, I'd empathize with them but would tell them the same thing. Well that and to go delete their tweets.

[Hards Alumni]

It was pretty easy for the guy to avoid this...

1. Don't make racist tweets.
2. If you can't manage to do #1, delete your racist tweets.

I mean, are you suggesting we feel sorry for the guy?

Or consider that a 15 year old kids tweet shouldn't be held against him.  Even deleted tweets can be found.

An apology saying he was a dumb kid and had obviously grown since he was 15 should have sufficed.

[MuggsyB]

If being on my "high horse" means I think people shouldn't make racist tweets, then bring me my f*cking ladder. And I'm not engaging in "actual discussion" after seven paragraphs of nonsense making excuses for why people who make racist tweets really aren't racist.

And I don't have to worry about my kids getting fired for this...because they don't make racist tweets. It really is that simple.


The Blazers will be fine. They proactively addressed it and the story will be dead by the time the ball tips.

Ok glad to see you have zero interest in an actual discussion, enjoy the view from that high horse.  I'm sure you'd smugly applaud your own kids getting fired as an adult for something like this, they should have followed such simple solutions from birth, duh.

And FWIW, the Blazers created more of a distraction about this than anything about his employment, if it continued, would have, pure Streisand effect.

JWags,

Fluffy has never made a single mistake, nor has written or uttered a single word in his entire life, that one can label as remotely prejudical.  I take that back.... he hasn't even entertained a thought that can be construed as predjuducial.  If every conversation of Fluffy was recorded, and his children, you won't find anything in their discussions, since the time they learned to speak, that would lead one to believe they are not model citizens and are beacons for the human race. 

[The Sultan]

JWags,

Fluffy has never made a single mistake, nor has written or uttered a single word in his entire life, that one can label as remotely prejudical.  I take that back.... he hasn't even entertained a thought that can be construed as predjuducial.  If every conversation of Fluffy was recorded, and his children, you won't find anything in their discussions, since the time they learned to speak, that would lead one to believe they are not model citizens and are beacons for the human race. 

Funny. I find that "not being racist" isn't really that difficult to do.

But I guess 15 year olds are just going to willy-nilly be racist and that's simply something we are going to have to live with.

BTW, have you been digging into the owner's tweets? Find anything? Or were you just being your silly little self again.

[tower912]

Same argument I made to the dentists.  And to my kids.  You are free to post what you want.  Others are free to disagree with it, argue against it, and make judgements about you based on your words.   The internet is forever and if you post stupid stuff, eventually you will pay the price.

Many want to post racist, misogynistic, hate filled things and not be judged for it.  Not how life works.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I mean, the bar for what constitutes a racist tweet has gotten pretty low if this is what is severe enough to get someone fired, especially given the age and content of the tweets.  I expected slurs or something truly problematic, which there really wasn't.

I think more ridiculous part of the story to me is the Blazers handling of this.  Going through the whole interviewing and hiring process to only then bring this up and fire him within 24 hours.  Makes it look like either a set-up to make the Blazers look heroic, or there are people within the Blazers organization (or have their ear to some extent) that immediately takes it on themselves to vet someone like this after the fact, once they are announced, and find things they deem inappropriate.  The cynical side of me is not remotely shocked this happened in Portland versus almost any other NBA city.

So I had heard the general gist of the situation but hadn't gotten details. I read a little more and I think you are missing some pieces of the situation. There were slurs used in the guy's tweets. They weren't racial slurs, but he referred to women as sluts and whores.

Also unless I'm misunderstanding, the Blazers didn't bring this up. A local news station discovered the tweets and reached out to the Blazers for comment, and the Blazers responded by firing the guy. This doesn't seem like a setup to look heroic or anyone in the Blazers sabotaging him. It seems like a garden variety, a news story is going to come out about this guys making racist and sexist tweets that we didn't know about, we either need to defend him or get rid of him. I doubt many companies would chose to defend a replacement level employee on their first day in the company. Even if they weren't in Portland.

I guess it's possible someone in the Blazers leaked it to the news station, but it's just as possible that the reporter was prepping a story on the new Blazers play by play guy and stumbled onto the tweets. Or the runner up for the job leaked them to the news. Or an ex-girlfriend. Or the husband of his mistress. Or a doorman that he forgot to tip at the holidays.

And none of this is to say that the Blazers did the morally right thing or that people should be held accountable for what they said/did as a 15 year old. Just trying to get details right.

[JWags85]

So I had heard the general gist of the situation but hadn't gotten details. I read a little more and I think you are missing some pieces of the situation. There were slurs used in the guy's tweets. They weren't racial slurs, but he referred to women as sluts and whores.

...

Good clarifications, appreciated.  I actually saw some tweets around the same that showed the timeline. I also saw tweets from both the news director and the guy who "broke" the story being pretty self congratulatory about it, so it seems it was their internal work.

I was going to respond to your earlier post about how I actually fully agreed with your point from a business perspective.  At that time, I just thought how it all went down and the timeline was really odd.  Now with this additional information, I frankly don't blame the Blazers at all given what's been brought to light about KGW and the "story" they were working on. 

Do I think it's hacky garbage journalism to write a story about 15 year old tweets about a guy who was just hired?  Absolutely. Especially since they probably had to literally keyword search words in his Twitter profile cause I saw follow up tweets that said most low level AI scrappers won't do that for liability reasons.  But faced with that, it's not really a spot for an NBA team to make a stand with someone they don't have a relationship with, regardless of if they think it's a hit piece, juice isn't worth the squeeze in any way.

We certainly  need to further litigate the "Asians" piece, cause I think we're on the same page about it, more or less.  But I do think the slut and whore components are actually an interesting look at how quickly language and "severity", lack of a better term, of certain terms can change. I'd argue that common use of both of those words wasn't even that edgy or transgressive in the 2000s/early 2010s.  I can think of major quotes from Wedding Crashers, Mean Girls, etc.. with both of those words used that were quoted and mentioned all the time by both genders. Things have changed profoundly in the 15-20 years since and I think those words carry significantly more weight and harm. I can tell you my mid 20s sister in law is way more bothered by usage of words like that than my late 30s wife is. So it's kind of tricky and unfair to look back on stuff from that era in a current lens, apples to apples.  Explaining all this sort of stuff to my kids in 10 years when they became teens will be an adventure

[Shaka Shart]

@JWags85 your "cynical" "not surprised this happened in Portland" actual reasoning aside, your statement makes a legitimate unintentional point.

This dude has been announcing Phoenix wnba games and that's probably heavily playing into the calculus with his sexist posts. Portland just finishing a very successful first season in that league and they are very closely affiliated and do promotions with many of the top blazer players. Portland is also a very heavily Asian city.

Both these matters combined alienating a big chunk of your fanbase makes a borderline decision in some places a no brainer here. 15 year old self losing him his job is rough, but as a public figure in broadcasting he should have long nuked these posts. that's poor judgement much more recent than 14 years ago.

It's not a Portland overly sensitive matter like you're making it out to be, it's that the posts target an inordinate amount of the fan base who is already pretty up in arms about ownership.

[The Sultan]

nm

[The Sultan]

nm

[MuggsyB]

Same argument I made to the dentists.  And to my kids.  You are free to post what you want.  Others are free to disagree with it, argue against it, and make judgements about you based on your words.   The internet is forever and if you post stupid stuff, eventually you will pay the price.

Many want to post racist, misogynistic, hate filled things and not be judged for it.  Not how life works.

Tower, do we have Juvenile laws in our country?  If you're 15 and rob a bank at gunpoint, and maim a few people in the process, is that not worse than racist tweets?  If you commit a robbery at 15 isn't that expunged from your record?