RIP Pope Francis

[cheebs09]

Buzz doesn't strike me as a lifetime appointment type of guy.

[Uncle Rico]

Buzz doesn't strike me as a lifetime appointment type of guy.

Given the history of some of the dudes (and maybe one woman) who have been pope, buzz's proclivity to have a flusher would be quaint

[The Sultan]

Just like I thought  he should apply for the MU president gig, I vote for Sultan.

The first Jesuit pope followed by the first Protestant one would be interesting.

[Warriors4ever]

I don't envy his successor, who has very big shoes to fill.

[jesmu84]

Sounds like Francis tried to "stack the court" for more progressive leadership in the future.

But if the Catholic Church is like most other institutions, I expect a hard pivot back to conservativism next

[Uncle Rico]

Sounds like Francis tried to "stack the court" for more progressive leadership in the future.

But if the Catholic Church is like most other institutions, I expect a hard pivot back to conservativism next

Hopefully, that hard pivot doesn't include boy raping again

[jutaw22mu]

I don't envy his successor, who has very big shoes to fill.

I don't envy his successor since whoever it is has a big mess to clean up.  I had high hopes for him when he was elected pope, but became increasingly disappointed in the messages he was sending from the Vatican.  Referring to the Traditional Lation Mass as a "nostaligic disease" and banning it from churches, banning private masses typically said daily in side chapels and alters at St Peters, referring to conservative Catholics as "backwards" and "suicidal," excommunicating Vigano, dismal of Bishop Strickland and other Cardinals who he felt were too conservative, the Fiducia Supplicans fiasco, are just a few example of the many problems he created.  And yes, he did stack the deck in the College of Cardinals.  I will be praying that the next pope is someone in line with Cardinal Robert Sarah, Cardinal Peter Erdo, Cardinal Athanasius Schneider, or Cardinal Raymond Burke.

May God have mercy on his soul.

"The Legacy of Pope Francis is Chaos, Confusion, and Division in the Catholic Church"
https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/21/the-legacy-of-pope-francis-is-chaos-confusion-and-division-in-the-catholic-church/

[jutaw22mu]

pls remove.

[Pakuni]

Sounds like Francis tried to "stack the court" for more progressive leadership in the future.

But if the Catholic Church is like most other institutions, I expect a hard pivot back to conservativism next

Maybe, but the oddsmakers and betting markets seem to think otherwise.

[Pakuni]

I don't envy his successor since whoever it is has a big mess to clean up.  I had high hopes for him when he was elected pope, but became increasingly disappointed in the messages he was sending from the Vatican.  Referring to the Traditional Lation Mass as a "nostaligic disease" and banning it from churches, banning private masses typically said daily in side chapels and alters at St Peters, referring to conservative Catholics as "backwards" and "suicidal," excommunicating Vigano, dismal of Bishop Strickland and other Cardinals who he felt were too conservative, the Fiducia Supplicans fiasco, are just a few example of the many problems he created.  And yes, he did stack the deck in the College of Cardinals.  I will be praying that the next pope is someone in line with Cardinal Robert Sarah, Cardinal Peter Erdo, Cardinal Athanasius Schneider, or Cardinal Raymond Burke.

May God have mercy on his soul.

"The Legacy of Pope Francis is Chaos, Confusion, and Division in the Catholic Church"
https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/21/the-legacy-of-pope-francis-is-chaos-confusion-and-division-in-the-catholic-church/

Lol.
I have a better chance of becoming the next pope than Raymond Burke, who seems eager to return the church to the Dark Ages and make it even less relevant.
And I always turn to the Federalist when I want serious reflection on the nature of Catholicism.

[Uncle Rico]

I don't envy his successor since whoever it is has a big mess to clean up.  I had high hopes for him when he was elected pope, but became increasingly disappointed in the messages he was sending from the Vatican.  Referring to the Traditional Lation Mass as a "nostaligic disease" and banning it from churches, banning private masses typically said daily in side chapels and alters at St Peters, referring to conservative Catholics as "backwards" and "suicidal," excommunicating Vigano, dismal of Bishop Strickland and other Cardinals who he felt were too conservative, the Fiducia Supplicans fiasco, are just a few example of the many problems he created.  And yes, he did stack the deck in the College of Cardinals.  I will be praying that the next pope is someone in line with Cardinal Robert Sarah, Cardinal Peter Erdo, Cardinal Athanasius Schneider, or Cardinal Raymond Burke.

May God have mercy on his soul.

"The Legacy of Pope Francis is Chaos, Confusion, and Division in the Catholic Church"
https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/21/the-legacy-of-pope-francis-is-chaos-confusion-and-division-in-the-catholic-church/

Historically, most popes have been amoral and despicable people.  That's why I'd be a traditionalist if I were Catholic.  No more woke popes and more popes without empathy

[Uncle Rico]

Lol.
I have a better chance of becoming the next pope than Raymond Burke, who seems eager to return the church to the Dark Ages and make it even less relevant.
And I always turn to the Federalist when I want serious reflection on the nature of Catholicism.

Who funds the Federalist?

[RJax55]

There will always be some that desire an insular, dogmatic approach to Catholicism.

[Scoop Snoop]

Raymond Burke would certainly be the orange man's choice.

What was interesting in both jutaw's post and the article from the Federalist was the total absence of any reference to the messages of the gospel. Whether or not one agreed with Francis, the basis of many of his positions on matters was clearly based upon those messages. The introversion, circling of the wagons mentality of the right in the church is suicidal.



 

[Pakuni]

Who funds the Federalist?

The cardboard king of Chicago (well, Lake Forest, anyhow).

[Uncle Rico]

Raymond Burke would certainly be the orange man's choice.

What was interesting in both jutaw's post and the article from the Federalist was the total absence of any reference to the messages of the gospel. Whether or not one agreed with Francis, the basis of many of his positions on matters was clearly based upon those messages. The introversion, circling of the wagons mentality of the right in the church is suicidal.



 

They just want to hate and have an excuse to hate.

[wadesworld]

I don't envy his successor since whoever it is has a big mess to clean up.  I had high hopes for him when he was elected pope, but became increasingly disappointed in the messages he was sending from the Vatican.  Referring to the Traditional Lation Mass as a "nostaligic disease" and banning it from churches, banning private masses typically said daily in side chapels and alters at St Peters, referring to conservative Catholics as "backwards" and "suicidal," excommunicating Vigano, dismal of Bishop Strickland and other Cardinals who he felt were too conservative, the Fiducia Supplicans fiasco, are just a few example of the many problems he created.  And yes, he did stack the deck in the College of Cardinals.  I will be praying that the next pope is someone in line with Cardinal Robert Sarah, Cardinal Peter Erdo, Cardinal Athanasius Schneider, or Cardinal Raymond Burke.

May God have mercy on his soul.

"The Legacy of Pope Francis is Chaos, Confusion, and Division in the Catholic Church"
https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/21/the-legacy-of-pope-francis-is-chaos-confusion-and-division-in-the-catholic-church/

This post checks out.

[Pakuni]

"The Legacy of Pope Francis is Chaos, Confusion, and Division in the Catholic Church"
https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/21/the-legacy-of-pope-francis-is-chaos-confusion-and-division-in-the-catholic-church/

Contrary to what jutaw and the Federalist claim here about Francis sowing division, he was overwhelmingly popular.

At least 80 percent of surveyed U.S. Catholics expressed a favorable opinion of Francis in 10 of 15 polls conducted by the Pew Research Center between 2013, when he became pope, and February 9, 2025. His highest favorability rating was 90 percent in February 2015.

https://www.newsweek.com/pope-francis-vatican-catholic-church-lgbtq-immigration-2062136

[Uncle Rico]

Contrary to what jutaw and the Federalist claim here about Francis sowing division, he was overwhelmingly popular.

At least 80 percent of surveyed U.S. Catholics expressed a favorable opinion of Francis in 10 of 15 polls conducted by the Pew Research Center between 2013, when he became pope, and February 9, 2025. His highest favorability rating was 90 percent in February 2015.

https://www.newsweek.com/pope-francis-vatican-catholic-church-lgbtq-immigration-2062136

His greatest problem was his inclusivity and refusal to denounce those with lifestyles that some have phobias about.

[tower912]

I don't envy his successor since whoever it is has a big mess to clean up.  I had high hopes for him when he was elected pope, but became increasingly disappointed in the messages he was sending from the Vatican.  Referring to the Traditional Lation Mass as a "nostaligic disease" and banning it from churches, banning private masses typically said daily in side chapels and alters at St Peters, referring to conservative Catholics as "backwards" and "suicidal," excommunicating Vigano, dismal of Bishop Strickland and other Cardinals who he felt were too conservative, the Fiducia Supplicans fiasco, are just a few example of the many problems he created.  And yes, he did stack the deck in the College of Cardinals.  I will be praying that the next pope is someone in line with Cardinal Robert Sarah, Cardinal Peter Erdo, Cardinal Athanasius Schneider, or Cardinal Raymond Burke.

May God have mercy on his soul.

"The Legacy of Pope Francis is Chaos, Confusion, and Division in the Catholic Church"
https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/21/the-legacy-of-pope-francis-is-chaos-confusion-and-division-in-the-catholic-church/

We are diametrically opposed.

[MU82]

His greatest problem was his inclusivity and refusal to denounce those with lifestyles that some have phobias about.

Also quoted Jesus a little too often when it came to being kind to immigrants, poor folks and vulnerable people.

Love thy neighbor, blah blah blah. Save it, pal!

[Uncle Rico]

Also quoted Jesus a little too often when it came to being kind to immigrants, poor folks and vulnerable people.

Love thy neighbor, blah blah blah. Save it, pal!

That's the rub for certain American Catholics, aina?

[tower912]

Catholic social teaching is a vast and varied mosaic.  The sanctity of the individual and their labor, prefential option for the poor and the immigrant, support for a national health care system as long as it does not include contraception, being stewards of the earth, anti-pure capitalism, as well as pure communism, anti death penalty.   
  As well as anti- abortion and contraception, and anti gay marriage.     
   
 It is actually a fairly well integrated and woven tapestry.   However, it does not fit easily into any one current American party.   So, us being weak, choose our political affiliation and then pick and choose which Catholic teachings fit our pre-existing biases and weaknesses.   And choosing to ignore and belittle Catholic teachings that go against out political bias.

It is damn difficult to find an anti-abortion, anti- gay marriage, pro-immigrant, anti- death penalty, anti-unfettered capitalism, prefential option for the poor, pro steward of the environment politician.

So, I shall render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and render unto the Lord what is the Lord's.   

[Pakuni]

Also quoted Jesus a little too often when it came to being kind to immigrants, poor folks and vulnerable people.

Love thy neighbor, blah blah blah. Save it, pal!

Completely ignored Jesus' affinity for the Latin Mass and shunning of divorced people.

[Scoop Snoop]

However, it does not fit easily into any one current American party.  So, us being weak, choose our political affiliation and then pick and choose which Catholic teachings fit our pre-existing biases and weaknesses.  And choosing to ignore and belittle Catholic teachings that go against our political bias.
 

I think of what you described here as "outcome-based beliefs".