Post Season Reflections

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

There's also a lot of selective memory about TKO. He did not have a very good Sophomore season, especially shooting the ball. Every time he gets brought up as a portal success story, it should be equally known that he's just as much a stay and develop success story. A lot of hopeful things that are currently being said about James were said about Sean because it was questionable whether TKO could step up.

There's data out there that suggests that transfers tend to take big leaps in production in their second year at their new school.

[Galway Eagle]

Shocked so many are responding to an obvious troll so seriously?  Has Scoop lost its troll radar?

Haven't you bitten on Derrick or Wojo or Dawson trolling more than anyone on scoop? Come on pot meet kettle

[Its DJOver]

There's data out there that suggests that transfers tend to take big leaps in production in their second year at their new school.

I don't doubt it.  That being said, I don't think anyone anticipated the size of the leap that TKO took.

[muwarrior69]

Shocked so many are responding to an obvious troll so seriously?  Has Scoop lost its troll radar?

You disagree with the OP and you call him a troll. The OP has SOME valid points. Time will tell if Shaka's approach is successful and by successful, I mean competing for National Championships not settling for S16, E8 or F4 though those would be demonstrating the program going in the right direction.

NIL, transfer portal are all good for the players. Not so sure it is good for Marquette.

[rgoode57]

Every team in the Elite Eight had a couple of common threads.
1. They all had an abundance of very, very athletic players. Chase Ross, MU's most athletic player, was just average in this group.
2. They all had a couple of transfer players. In the case of Alabama, I think they had ten.
3. They all had at least one fifth year senior. In a couple of cases, I think teams had two or three.
What team had none of these three things this past season? - MU.

I don't blame Shaka for trying to avoid the portal. Everyone is entitled to a perspective. But, I think it has become clear that not using the portal really limits your chances of late-season success at a high level. But, I also suspect that MU will never be competitive for top players. I saw a report this morning that Texas Tech's best player is passing on the NBA draft and coming back to play another college season - reportedly for $4 million. I have trouble believing that number, but there are some crazy things going on out there.

I suspect it is true that MU will continue to have good teams but not teams that are truly outstanding.

[Galway Eagle]

Every team in the Elite Eight had a couple of common threads.
1. They all had an abundance of very, very athletic players. Chase Ross, MU's most athletic player, was just average in this group.
2. They all had a couple of transfer players. In the case of Alabama, I think they had ten.
3. They all had at least one fifth year senior. In a couple of cases, I think teams had two or three.
What team had none of these three things this past season? - MU.

I don't blame Shaka for trying to avoid the portal. Everyone is entitled to a perspective. But, I think it has become clear that not using the portal really limits your chances of late-season success at a high level. But, I also suspect that MU will never be competitive for top players. I saw a report this morning that Texas Tech's best player is passing on the NBA draft and coming back to play another college season - reportedly for $4 million. I have trouble believing that number, but there are some crazy things going on out there.

I suspect it is true that MU will continue to have good teams but not teams that are truly outstanding.

What teams would you have considered outstanding since Al? It sounds like just 2.

[Scoop Snoop]

What teams would you have considered outstanding since Al? It sounds like just 2.

That's 2 more than muwarrior69 has in his post. Sucess = being in the championship game.  SS, EE, FF  are only evidence that Marquette is heading in the right direction.

[Hards Alumni]

Every team in the Elite Eight had a couple of common threads.
1. They all had an abundance of very, very athletic players. Chase Ross, MU's most athletic player, was just average in this group.
2. They all had a couple of transfer players. In the case of Alabama, I think they had ten.
3. They all had at least one fifth year senior. In a couple of cases, I think teams had two or three.
What team had none of these three things this past season? - MU.

I don't blame Shaka for trying to avoid the portal. Everyone is entitled to a perspective. But, I think it has become clear that not using the portal really limits your chances of late-season success at a high level. But, I also suspect that MU will never be competitive for top players. I saw a report this morning that Texas Tech's best player is passing on the NBA draft and coming back to play another college season - reportedly for $4 million. I have trouble believing that number, but there are some crazy things going on out there.

I suspect it is true that MU will continue to have good teams but not teams that are truly outstanding.

1. You don't need the portal to get athletic players.
2. MSU and Purdue lost to the #1 seeds (by 6 and 2 respectfully) without much portal action.
3. COVID years are all spent after this year.

Too many folks around here see the portal as some sort of panacea, or guarantee of success.  For every team like Alabama or St. Johns, there are teams like Kansas and Indiana.  Or that we can just create a player that fits the team who can make a difference without upsetting the balance on the team out of thin air.  But when asked to point to this person, nothing.

If Shaka finds someone that fits what he needs and fits the culture I'm sure he won't hesitate to brings someone in.  Unfortunately, for a lot of scooper's mental health, that pool of players is pretty small or non existent.

[Scoop Snoop]

During a performance of Prairie Home Companion on NPR, Garrison Keillor once described some people who say that "you have only one problem"....and they know what it is. I think that describes scoopers who are completely confident that Shaka has only one problem, and they know what it is.

kudos to Hards for shredding the lopsided portal arguments in his post above.

[drbob]

There is a lot to unpack in the lead post in this thread. You can argue about whether David Joplin, Ben Gold or Chase Ross area world class (hint: they're not), but there is a bigger question looming that cuts to the heart of the place basketball has at Marquette: How far is Marquette willing to go to be a contender for a national title?

Clearly they weren't in 2024-2025. Mistaken 6th ranking notwithstanding, this was a flawed team with holes that became increasingly apparent over time. Those holes can be fixed, but it will take something Marquette isn't comfortable doling out: big sums of money.

Until just a few short years ago, the table was badly tilted in the university's favor. Every university was equal and a student chose among institutions based on "merit", not on what the university can financially do for the student (UCLA, Louisville and Illinois notwithstanding). Now, universities will have to deal with assorted hangers-oners, from unscrupulous coaches to agents, friends and family and just about anyone else who is able to get a financial piece of the so-called student athlete. Those folks will have to be paid, one way or the other.

I admire the fact that Coach Shaka recruits young men of character. Our guys do well in school and reasonably well so far on the basketball court. I hope his development plan is successful. But, while I'm always optimistic, I have some doubts that our way will get us to where Florida was last night. What's going to happen if Royce Parham and Damarius Owens have break-out years next year and the University of North Carolina, having failed to make the tournament, does a huge bag drop on one or both?

Alternatively, is the Marquette of the future willing to do what it takes to bring the McGuiresque talent necessary to ensure we're a consistent Natty contender?

Marquette has many, many conflicting priorities. Basketball net income helps fund them. My fear is that the cost of being a national basketball powerhouse will be so high that Marquette's Board says, "the heck with it." They'll be content with an occasional Big East title, an NCAA invite and maybe a couple wins that get us to the Sweet 16. In other words: we become Drake.

The next time, there might not be a Father Wild or a Kevin O'Neill to save us! 

Must be us old Marquette warriors think alike .  Despite all the criticism your post received I agree with you. Must be you had to have lived thru the Mc Guire years to have some perspective.

[Uncle Rico]

Must be us old Marquette warriors think alike .  Despite all the criticism your post received I agree with you. Must be you had to have lived thru the Mc Guire years to have some perspective.

The McGuire years are meaningless to the modern college landscape. 

[Scoop Snoop]

Must be us old Marquette warriors think alike .  Despite all the criticism your post received I agree with you. Must be you had to have lived thru the Mc Guire years to have some perspective.

I'm a '70 alumnus, so I definitely lived through the Al Era. There's no question Al put Marquette on the basketball map. I absolutely loved living through the Al Era. I like to reminisce about it sometimes in the privacy of my mind, but I do not live there.

I love dgies' enthusiasm, but we need to let Al RIP. The present landscape of college basketball with the major changes in the way the game is played since Al's day and the current rules, NIL, and the portal is reality.  That's my perspective. We do not all think alike.

[MU82]

1. You don't need the portal to get athletic players.
2. MSU and Purdue lost to the #1 seeds (by 6 and 2 respectfully) without much portal action.
3. COVID years are all spent after this year.

Too many folks around here see the portal as some sort of panacea, or guarantee of success.  For every team like Alabama or St. Johns, there are teams like Kansas and Indiana.  Or that we can just create a player that fits the team who can make a difference without upsetting the balance on the team out of thin air.  But when asked to point to this person, nothing.

If Shaka finds someone that fits what he needs and fits the culture I'm sure he won't hesitate to brings someone in.  Unfortunately, for a lot of scooper's mental health, that pool of players is pretty small or non existent.

Yep yep.

And even St. John's ... flamed out in the second round, losing to a 10-seed, with the HoF coach benching his star (a transfer) for the final 5 minutes of a close game. If the main characters of that drama had been Marquette/Shaka/Kam, lotsa Scoopers would not have called it a "success."

[muwarrior69]

The McGuire years are meaningless to the modern college landscape. 

I agree but is Marquette willing to travel that landscape by putting a team together that could win a Natty. Will see if spending NIL money to retain players rather than acquire players is the key to winning. I suspect spending NIL money on both is the logical/reasonable option. Is Marquette willing to pay for play which at the moment is the modern college landscape?

[willie warrior]

Every team in the Elite Eight had a couple of common threads.
1. They all had an abundance of very, very athletic players. Chase Ross, MU's most athletic player, was just average in this group.
2. They all had a couple of transfer players. In the case of Alabama, I think they had ten.
3. They all had at least one fifth year senior. In a couple of cases, I think teams had two or three.
What team had none of these three things this past season? - MU.

I don't blame Shaka for trying to avoid the portal. Everyone is entitled to a perspective. But, I think it has become clear that not using the portal really limits your chances of late-season success at a high level. But, I also suspect that MU will never be competitive for top players. I saw a report this morning that Texas Tech's best player is passing on the NBA draft and coming back to play another college season - reportedly for $4 million. I have trouble believing that number, but there are some crazy things going on out there.

I suspect it is true that MU will continue to have good teams but not teams that are truly outstanding.

Agree with most of this. Cannot believe these  NIL numbers that are sometimes reported. There is no reason why MU cannot compete for top players if the administration gets their head out of the sand.

[Hards Alumni]

Agree with most of this. Cannot believe these  NIL numbers that are sometimes reported. There is no reason why MU cannot compete for top players if the administration gets their head out of the sand.

I'll get them your number, and have em put it on speed dial for all important decisions.

[MU82]

Every time I see the title of this thread, I think of Deep Thoughts, by Jack Handey.

https://www.google.com/search?q=jack+handy&rlz=1CAVMHK_enUS1060US1060&oq=jack+handy&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIMCAEQLhgKGLEDGIAEMgkIAhAuGAoYgAQyCQgDEAAYChiABDIJCAQQABgKGIAEMgkIBRAAGAoYgAQyCQgGEAAYChiABDIJCAcQABgKGIAEMgkICBAAGAoYgATSAQgxNzQyajBqN6gCCLACAfEFg9t9hslAZQI&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:e5c31562,vid:EigfHLZHQkE,st:0

[Big Papi]

Yep yep.

And even St. John's ... flamed out in the second round, losing to a 10-seed, with the HoF coach benching his star (a transfer) for the final 5 minutes of a close game. If the main characters of that drama had been Marquette/Shaka/Kam, lotsa Scoopers would not have called it a "success."

They won a Big East season title, the Big East conference tournament title, beat us all 3 times we played them and advanced to the second round of the NCAA.  Yes, they got upset in the second round.  Shooting woes happen to really good teams in a 1 off game, cue NC State.  St. Johns had issues, 3-point shooting in general and it reared its ugly head when they couldn't overcome it.  Got a feeling Rick is going to address that issue for next year. 

Overall, I would call their season a huge success no matter what and it's something that is achievable for us, 2022-23 and should be the goal every year(Winning BE conference season and Big East title and getting high seeds)  As we start trending away from that, you need to start looking at what are you doing right, what went wrong and what do you need to do to get back to that level.  Our team has a lot of growing to do over the off-season to get back to where we were at just the last few seasons.

[mileskishnish72]

They won a Big East season title, the Big East conference tournament title, beat us all 3 times we played them and advanced to the second round of the NCAA.  Yes, they got upset in the second round.  Shooting woes happen to really good teams in a 1 off game, cue NC State.  St. Johns had issues, 3-point shooting in general and it reared its ugly head when they couldn't overcome it. 

They also learned that tournament games are not called the same way BE games are.

[Galway Eagle]

As we start trending away from that, you need to start looking at what are you doing right, what went wrong and what do you need to do to get back to that level. 

Is a single year a trend when looking at 4 years? No.

Next year we can argue about trends but thus far we took no key transfers and lost no key returnees, to improve to a 2 seed, did the same to stay at a 2 seed, did the same and fell off to a 7 seed (which I think we could make a damn good argument had more to do with sudden shooting woes from proven shooters than tripling down on the system given how the non con and early conference records looked)

[Big Papi]

They also learned that tournament games are not called the same way BE games are.

They got away with so much physicality in the Big East.  Not a fan of Big East refereeing .

[wadesworld]

They won a Big East season title, the Big East conference tournament title, beat us all 3 times we played them and advanced to the second round of the NCAA.  Yes, they got upset in the second round.  Shooting woes happen to really good teams in a 1 off game, cue NC State.  St. Johns had issues, 3-point shooting in general and it reared its ugly head when they couldn't overcome it.  Got a feeling Rick is going to address that issue for next year. 

Overall, I would call their season a huge success no matter what and it's something that is achievable for us, 2022-23 and should be the goal every year(Winning BE conference season and Big East title and getting high seeds)  As we start trending away from that, you need to start looking at what are you doing right, what went wrong and what do you need to do to get back to that level.  Our team has a lot of growing to do over the off-season to get back to where we were at just the last few seasons.

Boy imagine if Shaka had a season like St. John's.  Win the double BE title, get a 2 seed, lose in the 2nd round.  If only he could have that type of success.

Oh wait.  He had that exact same season 2 years ago.  And followed it up with another 2 seed.  But he hasn't had a Final Four run so Scoopers think he needs to hit the portal because he had a "down" year.  One in which we finished 4th in the BE and got a 7 seed.  When has that ever been a "down" year for Marquette basketball?  The mid to late 70s is about it.  Yet...

[drbob]

I'm a '70 alumnus, so I definitely lived through the Al Era. There's no question Al put Marquette on the basketball map. I absolutely loved living through the Al Era. I like to reminisce about it sometimes in the privacy of my mind, but I do not live there.

I love dgies' enthusiasm, but we need to let Al RIP. The present landscape of college basketball with the major changes in the way the game is played since Al's day and the current rules, NIL, and the portal is reality.  That's my perspective. We do not all think alike.

I understand the game has changed. That is not the point. Al's tenure was the obvious pinnacle of MU's basketball success. I see no reason to not want to strive to that level of success again. I don't care if Shaka uses the portal or is able to achieve this with high school recruits. { which seems to be the harder route}  If you are a Marquette fan why not yearn for better.  I don't think Duke fans think that coach K's past success is not still the program goal. I think Shaka is a class act.  Hopefully his project bigs will provide some level of frontcourt toughness and rebounding that has been missing.

[wadesworld]

Do people really think Shaka or Marquette basketball or the athletic department are NOT striving for the success Al had?  It's not like the issue is a lack of investment or interest in the men's basketball program at Marquette.  It's hard to have that kind of success.

[Uncle Rico]

Do people really think Shaka or Marquette basketball or the athletic department are NOT striving for the success Al had?  It's not like the issue is a lack of investment or interest in the men's basketball program at Marquette.  It's hard to have that kind of success.

Counterpoint:  It's Easy