A Well Managed Decline

[wadesworld]

Dare I say my dad was a MU educated...dentist!! And double dare I say...was an admin in the dental school during my undergrad yrs and my sisters law school yrs. Point?

That explains everything.

Did you, by chance, take over his practice?

[bilsu]

We are going from an old team to a young team. I do not expect us to be an NCAA tourney team next year. Next year is all about developing the players for the future. I expect this freshmen class to get better every year. We need to be patient next year.

[jfp61]

We are going from an old team to a young team. I do not expect us to be an NCAA tourney team next year. Next year is all about developing the players for the future. I expect this freshmen class to get better every year. We need to be patient next year.

Not a crazy young team. The starters are predicted to be three guys from 2003. Zaide from Jan 1st 05. And Royce in 06.

We are going from 3 seniors and 2 juniors. To a team that is 2 seniors, 2 juniors, and a sophmore, (but one junior had a medical RS season).

[hawk]

The program is not in decline as a program.  It is only in a down cycle.  If you want to build a team through recruit and develop the program can get out of balance in two ways, distribution of players, more bigs and wings but fewer guards and distribution of class, more upper or lower classmen.  it is hard to balance either or both.  Next year's team only has two seniors so it skews younger but it has a load of forwards and centers so it skews big.  The talent seems underwhelming but many of the returning players have big upsides and the freshman class is well considered.  I would expect that next season's team may be better than people think, maybe 5th or 6th in conference but the year after that they should soar.  I am looking forward to the evolution of this group of players

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Not a crazy young team. The starters are predicted to be three guys from 2003. Zaide from Jan 1st 05. And Royce in 06.

We are going from 3 seniors and 2 juniors. To a team that is 2 seniors, 2 juniors, and a sophmore, (but one junior had a medical RS season).

That's not bad considering that on average basketball is getting younger this year. 

[MUbiz]

The program is not in decline as a program.  It is only in a down cycle.  If you want to build a team through recruit and develop the program can get out of balance in two ways, distribution of players, more bigs and wings but fewer guards and distribution of class, more upper or lower classmen.  it is hard to balance either or both.  Next year's team only has two seniors so it skews younger but it has a load of forwards and centers so it skews big.  The talent seems underwhelming but many of the returning players have big upsides and the freshman class is well considered.  I would expect that next season's team may be better than people think, maybe 5th or 6th in conference but the year after that they should soar.  I am looking forward to the evolution of this group of players

Down cycle is a good term for this. Click on the tweet and watch the video - puts things into perspective for Nova - but also applies to MUBB.

https://x.com/JonRothstein/status/1905258495655514616

[Jay Bee]

#1s in our hearts

[Scoop Snoop]

The program is not in decline as a program.  It is only in a down cycle.  If you want to build a team through recruit and develop the program can get out of balance in two ways, distribution of players, more bigs and wings but fewer guards and distribution of class, more upper or lower classmen.  it is hard to balance either or both.  Next year's team only has two seniors so it skews younger but it has a load of forwards and centers so it skews big.  The talent seems underwhelming but many of the returning players have big upsides and the freshman class is well considered.  I would expect that next season's team may be better than people think, maybe 5th or 6th in conference but the year after that they should soar.  I am looking forward to the evolution of this group of players

Well-reasoned post. I keep repeating that Shaka's recruit and develop system will take several seasons before it can be fairly judged vs. using the portal liberally and getting immediate result, but this is being largely ignored on scoop. I believe that we will have to wait until the '26-'27 season before we hopefully see the rewards of Shaka's system. That will drive many here crazy. Oh wait! They already are.

I think we make the tourney next year, but with a lower seed than this year. Scoop will probably be even more of a volcano than it has been this season.

[PointWarrior]

We are going from an old team to a young team. I do not expect us to be an NCAA tourney team next year. Next year is all about developing the players for the future. I expect this freshmen class to get better every year. We need to be patient next year.

I am sure I am in the minority, but who thought in the 5th year of Shaka we would be rebuilding and missing the tourney.  Especially with resources Marquette has and ability to take transfers. 

[TallTitan34]

I am sure I am in the minority, but who thought in the 5th year of Shaka we would be rebuilding and missing the tourney.  Especially with resources Marquette has and ability to take transfers. 

Who thought in the 2nd year we'd have a double Big East title and two seed?

[PointWarrior]

Who thought in the 2nd year we'd have a double Big East title and two seed?

Agreed - both are quite remarkable.

[rocky_warrior]

I keep repeating that Shaka's recruit and develop system will take several seasons before it can be fairly judged

More than 5 years to judge!?!? 

[Scoop Snoop]

More than 5 years to judge!?!? 

Yep!    I'm all in on the CoS.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am sure I am in the minority, but who thought in the 5th year of Shaka we would be rebuilding and missing the tourney.  Especially with resources Marquette has and ability to take transfers. 

Agreed - both are quite remarkable.

What is significant about the fifth year? Were you of the belief that MU would never miss the tournament again?

[Viper]

That explains everything.

Did you, by chance, take over his practice?

im not smart enough, bro. Just a sales chump

[Viper]

Who thought in the 2nd year we'd have a double Big East title and two seed?

those ncaat wins as a 2 were awesome

[TallTitan34]

What is significant about the fifth year? Were you of the belief that MU would never miss the tournament again?

Also, this may not even happen.

[Uncle Rico]

those ncaat wins as a 2 were awesome

Nobody is forcing you to watch.  Unless your BIL is

[tower912]

I am sure I am in the minority, but who thought in the 5th year of Shaka we would be rebuilding and missing the tourney.  Especially with resources Marquette has and ability to take transfers. 

I think MU is reloading and will make the tourney.

[PointWarrior]

I think MU is reloading and will make the tourney.

That's my belief. But some are all good with a rebuilding year in year 5 (Dodd's included).

[willie warrior]

I can't believe our entire next class is completely unranked.

Time to shut the program down

Or find other resources. I know, Blasphemy.

[MU82]

Agreed - both are quite remarkable.

Except one actually happened ...  but the other is merely something that pessimists and HoSC members think will happen.

[Zog from Margo]

That's my belief. But some are all good with a rebuilding year in year 5 (Dodd's included).

Dodd's was more than all good with Wojo too.

If it turns out to be a rebuild next year, so be it.I believe MU, however, has the pieces for very good seasons thereafter and potentially next year. I'm just surprised that some people don't see how much more athletic Parham, Owens and Lowery were, and how much more length they had, compared to the starters other than Ross. That trend appears to be continuing with the incoming class. Some are down on Norman but he's way more physical than this year's starters. Hopefully, he can figure it all out. We'll see.

[tower912]

Yes.

[Vino-D]

Let me start by saying that I bleed blue and gold, just like a lot of you do, and I can't wait for every new basketball year to start for another year of MU men's b-ball. I would also like to offer that this years team was flawed, and I like many others was deluded into thinking, that because of the early success, that this was a great team, and it was not. They beat Maryland, Purdue, Georgia and Wisconsin, and we thought wow, this is a final 4 team, well, we know how that went (remember, this team was preseason ranked 18/20, preseason Big East7/8). Once teams started zoning MU to take Kam's game away, they also found out that MU was inconsistent at best at shooting 3's, and if you can't beat a zone with consistent shooting, well, that's what you're going to see a lot of. This was also a weak rebounding and foul shooting team.
Shaka got as much out of the talent he had as any other coach would have, he just didn't have the talent to take them further.  Am I disappointed, absolutely, but I'm also realistic, and I trust my eyes.
Shaka was a great hire for MU, and I have not lost faith in him as a coach at all. Before Shaka, MU was not in any relevant bball conversation, now MU is, and it's because of him. He wants to build a program, and to do that you need to rebuild the culture, which WOJ, through his bball incompetence, completely destroyed. He doesn't want to recruit 5-star one-an-done players, or look to the transfer portal, because you can't build a culture or program that way (read Tom Izzo's comments on his disdain for the portal). Some, and I understand, think that's the wrong approach...let's see. He has talent on the bench, he's redshirted players to give them an additional year of development, and he has the 17th best recruiting class coming in (247Sports). Also, recruiting is just like hiring, it's at best a crapshoot, because you really don't know what you have until that player arrives, and coaching starts. Take Kam Jones as an example, I believe he was a 3-star recruit, and if anyone saw him developing into an all American candidate other than Shaka, raise your hand! So if we want to show Shaka the door because a flawed team didn't go as far as our faulty expectations said they should go, well, I'm not in that group. There're over 300 men's D1 bball teams, and MU was on the short list of teams to make the tournament, when did that happen under WOJ?
After the early success this year, my expectations got elevated, and I was in the we can go very deep into the playoffs camp for both the Big East and the  group of 64 tournaments, but conference play as well as the tournament can provide a good test of reality. We'll be back, I'm confident of that, and Shaka will be the reason we return year-after-year-after-year.