NIL Money

[wadesworld]

I know there's no way of knowing actual numbers for NIL spending, but a small discussion about how much Marquette spends on its men's basketball program (4th highest in the country) and why that number is flawed (Marquette is one of a very few programs that has to pay rent to play its home games) had me thinking about really the only spending that matters at this point in terms of your program's success: NIL money.  Do we think Marquette's spending there lands in the top 25?  Top 10?  I kind of have doubts about either of those.  I'd be shocked if we were above programs like:

Duke, Houston, Florida, Auburn, Tennessee, Alabama, Arizona, St. John's, Kentucky, Illinois, Mizzou, BYU, Kansas, Louisville, Oregon, UNC, Arkansas, Texas, Indiana, or Kansas State.

I'd be somewhat surprised if we spent more in NIL than Michigan State, Maryland, Gonzaga, Iowa State, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Michigan, Ole Miss, UCLA, Baylor, UCONN, Creighton, Memphis, Villanova, USC, or Rutgers (at least this year).

I could be completely out of touch here, but that's 20 programs I'd be shocked if we pay more in NIL than, and another 16 I'd be somewhat surprised if we spend more than.  That number is far more important in terms of ROI for what the program is spending on.  You have to pay players to get good players in your program.  Players aren't going to see "Oh dang, you pay millions in rent a year!  You're dedicated to the success of men's basketball here, I'm in!"  They're coming if money is hitting their bank account.

I think we can be competitive with the guys that Shaka targets, guys who buy into culture over worrying only about the money.  But I don't think we're close to a top spender where it really matters these days.

[BrewCity83]

No doubt the NIL money is important to the kids, but you might be underestimating the value of the money spent on a quality coaching staff and top of the line facilities.  You know the chance to play in a world-class NBA arena is worth more than a little bit as a recruiting tool.

[CTWarrior]

I've been thinking about NIL a lot lately and I am curious too.  I look at the rapid rise to being the dominant basketball conference (7 of the sweet 16) of the SEC.  The sweet 16 is 7 SEC, 4 each from Big 10 and Big 12 and 1 from the ACC (Duke, who I think it is safe to say spends a lot of NIL money).  Watching the tournament, it is obvious that those conferences, especially the SEC, just have bigger, more athletic guys all over their rosters.  I wonder how much of that is NIL.

[connie]

All excellent points, but I would add that the NIL market is not stable.  It seems to have exploded in the last year and I think we can see that growth continuing until some limit is in place.  I think we are seeing in the tournament already that the smaller budget schools that may have been able to make a run with a group of 3-4 year players do not seem to be there anymore.  I suspect their better players are getting siphoned off by teams with more to spend.  While I think MU can do well to retain its top players, that has limits when the yearly bill keeps growing at pretty high percentages.  You already have 35 listed, and that doesn't count rumored big spenders like OSU, Memphis and Washington. And no, I don't know how many schools, especially smaller schools like MU, can continue to rely on that level of support year after year.

[Galway Eagle]

I'd be rather shocked if we couldn't compete with Creighton or Gonzaga.

[Its DJOver]

I have no idea what we spend in NIL or how it compares to other schools. I really won't be concerned about it unless we lose a player to an obvious portal bag drop, or the HS recruiting drops off a cliff due to higher day one salary demands for incoming Freshman (neither have happened so far).

[rgoode57]

I don't know how much playing at Fiserve has to do with recruiting. It's a great facility, but better players than MU gets go to lots of other places where home games are played in lesser facilities.

[tower912]

Donate.

[Jay Bee]

Marquette's spending to date: $0

[Dish]

No doubt the NIL money is important to the kids, but you might be underestimating the value of the money spent on a quality coaching staff and top of the line facilities.  You know the chance to play in a world-class NBA arena is worth more than a little bit as a recruiting tool.

Definitely underestimating the non NIL spend. Marquette pays DeAndre Haynes as one of the highest paid assistant coaches in the country at almost $450k per year. Kevin Willard is complaining about spend at Maryland, where his team can't spend an extra night in NYC, while MU is staying an extra night at Atlantis.

[Dish]

For the record, P5 schools that pay rent for their arenas is a small list. This list might not be perfect, but here you go.

Marquette
St. John's* (9 games at MSG)
Kentucky
NC State
Creighton
DePaul
Georgetown
Memphis
Louisville
Nebraska
Seton Hall
Providence
Villanova* (5 games at Wells Fargo)
UConn* (8 games at XL)

[Billy Hoyle]

I'd be rather shocked if we couldn't compete with Creighton or Gonzaga.

Gonzaga's isn't as strong as many think it is or should be. Drew Timme got national NIL deals, not collective cash.

[Carl]

Creighton's NIL is stronger than you think. Bruce Rassmussen (former AD) leaned into this hard and early. He structured dels with mainly his starters that included well timed bonus payments that coincided with key commitment and transfer dates. They also all got (leased) cars. Stakes have been raised since the early days but there are passionate deep pockets in Creighton's lower bowl.

The fun rumor with Cooper Flagg is that he got $0 of NIL money. Duke promised to make him the face of college basketball and leverage their alumni to get him 10-20 million in sponsorships. I don't see any other players in AT&T ad campaigns so maybe it's true

[Pakuni]

For the record, P5 schools that pay rent for their arenas is a small list. This list might not be perfect, but here you go.

Marquette
St. John's* (9 games at MSG)
Kentucky
NC State
Creighton
DePaul
Georgetown
Memphis
Louisville
Nebraska
Seton Hall
Providence
Villanova* (5 games at Wells Fargo)
UConn* (8 games at XL)

How much of a difference does this make, though?
I've been around the arena business a tiny bit, and from what I learned then, it's hard to turn a profit. And I imagine it would be especially hard in a city like Milwaukee, where there are plenty of other venues to compete with for non-Marquette events.
So while yes, MU does have the added expense of rent payments, those payments may very well be smaller than the operational losses the school could face by managing and maintaining (and repaying the loans to build) a suitably sized area on or near campus.

[Hards Alumni]

Creighton's NIL is stronger than you think. Bruce Rassmussen (former AD) leaned into this hard and early. He structured dels with mainly his starters that included well timed bonus payments that coincided with key commitment and transfer dates. They also all got (leased) cars. Stakes have been raised since the early days but there are passionate deep pockets in Creighton's lower bowl.

The fun rumor with Cooper Flagg is that he got $0 of NIL money. Duke promised to make him the face of college basketball and leverage their alumni to get him 10-20 million in sponsorships. I don't see any other players in AT&T ad campaigns so maybe it's true

... I think there are a lot of people who don't know what NIL is.

[tower912]

MU'S Be The Difference NIL fund is a separate entity from the school.  It is funded by donations and partnerships.  Assume it has been decently funded up until now.  Based on what has been said, hinted, rumored, and inferred by what has actually gone on, I feel safe making these guesses.

MU pays a flat fee.  Shaka has said that referencing no need for agents.

It goes up by year.  And production leads to more money.  Look at TKo's NIL valuation a season ago, the rumors of what he was offered to return for his COVID year.  Look at Kam's NIL valuation.

Related to that, and assuming it is thematically close if not letter perfect, like the Brewers or Packers, three relatively big contracts are coming off the books.

Going forward, with 15 possible scholarships vs 13, it is logical to assume it is going to need more money.

[Pakuni]

Going forward, with 15 possible scholarships vs 13, it is logical to assume it is going to need more money.

Or just not give 15 scholarships.
If you're a team that gets to the point where you're relying on your 14th and 15th players, your season is cooked anyhow.
And if you're a player willing to be a 14th/15th man, you're probably not very good, are unlikely to ever become very good and harming your chances of ever becoming good by not playing. You're better off going to a smaller school where you can play and, if you blow up, hitting the portal.
Would love to see Shaka use those scholies instead to reward multiyear walk-ons.

[tower912]

That is a valid point.  In opposition to what we have seen, much like Shaka using the portal, but a possibility, nonetheless.  There was a prime candidate last fall for the 15th scholarship (Ward?).  There is hot gossip about other players.   You are technically correct, though.

[Dish]

How much of a difference does this make, though?
I've been around the arena business a tiny bit, and from what I learned then, it's hard to turn a profit. And I imagine it would be especially hard in a city like Milwaukee, where there are plenty of other venues to compete with for non-Marquette events.
So while yes, MU does have the added expense of rent payments, those payments may very well be smaller than the operational losses the school could face by managing and maintaining (and repaying the loans to build) a suitably sized area on or near campus.

I was just providing this list for context. I agree 100% with what you're saying.

[rocky_warrior]

Kevin Willard is complaining about spend at Maryland

https://youtu.be/07P-rK_mPZo?si=XuD2T6dFOTi6vcwF&t=356

[Dish]

https://youtu.be/07P-rK_mPZo?si=XuD2T6dFOTi6vcwF&t=356

https://x.com/thehoopherald/status/1902847851421475133?s=46&t=nX9__T6F5tmMsEFTze2ANQ

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Willard to Villanova.

[rocky_warrior]

[some X crap]

I'm not saying Willard isn't complaining

[MuggsyB]

Willard to Villanova.

It's looking that way.  But I just don't know. 

[wadesworld]

It's looking that way.  But I just don't know. 

Looking more like Richard Pitino.