Rebounding

[muwarrior69]

I am not an X and O guy and not a student of the game, just a fan. Can someone please explain to me why are we such a poor rebounding team? I thought I heard the announcers say we were 10th out of the 11 teams in the Big East.

I know we have discussed this before, but will it be our Achilles heel come tournament time?

[Its DJOver]

Can't get a rebound if you turn the other team over.

[wadesworld]

We aren't that big and we're very active and often in rotation on defense.  Leaves you scrambling to find a body on the defensive glass.

[MUfan12]

We aren't that big and we're very active and often in rotation on defense.  Leaves you scrambling to find a body on the defensive glass.

Yep. Switching everything leaves mismatches down low.

Also, teams end up shooting, and missing, a ton of threes against our halfcourt defense. Long rebounds are a wild card.

[wadesworld]

Yep. Switching everything leaves mismatches down low.

Also, teams end up shooting, and missing, a ton of threes against our halfcourt defense. Long rebounds are a wild card.

Was going to mention a lot of 3 point attempts against us, but I didn't know if the numbers would support that our opponents shoot 3s at a higher clip than against most.

[MUfan12]

Was going to mention a lot of 3 point attempts against us, but I didn't know if the numbers would support that our opponents shoot 3s at a higher clip than against most.

Opponents take over 41% of their FGA against MU from three, which puts MU at 251st in the country in that stat.

[Jay Bee]

Remember, many bball announcers are idiots. The comment was that we were bad in 'rebounding margin', which isn't a thing. Getting X more rebounds in a game doesn't mean you've done X better than the other team. It's a stupid thing to comment on.

The reality is.. in BEast play we are middle of the road -- ranked 6th in both offensive and defensive rebounding percentage. Last season we were 6th and 10th, respective. We've been quite a bit better on the boards this season, both sides. We are mediocre in the landscape of DI basketball, but a year ago we were bad at both.

L Ellis no matta.

This is normal shaka stuff.. look at his history, and you'll be hard pressed to see good rebounding teams on either side of the glass in his history. But... you will find some damn offensive and defensive teams, so rejoice.

[MarquetteDano]

Remember, many bball announcers are idiots. The comment was that we were bad in 'rebounding margin', which isn't a thing. Getting X more rebounds in a game doesn't mean you've done X better than the other team. It's a stupid thing to comment on.

The reality is.. in BEast play we are middle of the road -- ranked 6th in both offensive and defensive rebounding percentage. Last season we were 6th and 10th, respective. We've been quite a bit better on the boards this season, both sides. We are mediocre in the landscape of DI basketball, but a year ago we were bad at both.

L Ellis no matta.

This is normal shaka stuff.. look at his history, and you'll be hard pressed to see good rebounding teams on either side of the glass in his history. But... you will find some damn offensive and defensive teams, so rejoice.

It will be nice when announcers start to understand percentages are so much more important than raw numbers.  I feel like the color guys should be sent to a short seminar to understand this.  It isn't difficult.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am not an X and O guy and not a student of the game, just a fan. Can someone please explain to me why are we such a poor rebounding team? I thought I heard the announcers say we were 10th out of the 11 teams in the Big East.

I know we have discussed this before, but will it be our Achilles heel come tournament time?

Were not a bad rebounding team. We're decidedly average. 6th in BE OR%, 6th in BE DR%.

[BM1090]

We've rebounded a higher percentage of our misses than our opponents have this year. There's not a rebounding problem. Is it a relative weakness? Yeah. But it's not really a weakness.

[muwarrior69]

Were not a bad rebounding team. We're decidedly average. 6th in BE OR%, 6th in BE DR%.

The percentages say one thing and the raw number another. What frustrates me to no end is when we battle for the ball under the net with one opponent player surrounded by two or 3 of our players, he gets 2 or 3 chances to make the basket or get the rebound.

[tower912]

Physics and experience.  I believe you are specifically frustrated by the stretch Screen had in the first half.
Matta deliberately waited for Ben to exit before he put Screen in the game. 7'1, 260 lb senior against the 6'9, 240 lb freshman Parham.  Screen played bully ball for a few minutes.  Physics and experience.   In the 5 minutes of game play where Ben and Screen were both on the floor, they canceled each other out. 

Macro, MU'S opponents aredoing everything they can to force switches, leaving Ben on the perimeter, and their post player defended down low by a guard.  Physics.  Also, 3 pt misses lead to far more random rebounds.  MU can have 4 players in the appropriate position, but a long rebound to the foul line give the offense a small advantage.

[Scoop Snoop]

The percentages say one thing and the raw number another. What frustrates me to no end is when we battle for the ball under the net with one opponent player surrounded by two or 3 of our players, he gets 2 or 3 chances to make the basket or get the rebound.

I get that, but the player on offense, I think, gets the benefit of doubt from the refs. Get aggressive and he gets at least 2 FTs if not an "and one".

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The percentages say one thing and the raw number another.

What do you think the relevance of the raw numbers is?

If my opponent misses 50 FGs all game  and I rebound all 50 of them, I have a 100% DR% and 50 defensive rebounds.

Meanwhile, I miss 100 shots but my opponent only rebounds 80 of them. They have a DR% of 80% and 80 defensive rebounds.

Who had a better rebounding game? The team that grabbed 100% of the available defensive rebounds but only got 70 total rebounds? Or the team that grabbed 80% of them but got 80 total rebounds?

50/50 is an A+. 80/100 is a B-.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What frustrates me to no end is when we battle for the ball under the net with one opponent player surrounded by two or 3 of our players, he gets 2 or 3 chances to make the basket or get the rebound.

How do you think opposing fans feel when we do the same thing to them?

It happens to most teams on most nights. Usually more than once a game.

[muwarrior69]

How do you think opposing fans feel when we do the same thing to them?

It happens to most teams on most nights. Usually more than once a game.

The perception is that we are a poor rebounding team. Even the analysts at half time pointed that out and from what I have seen I agree with them. Regardless were 9-1, 18-3 and ranked 9th so it has not hurt us so far. However, many have explained very well here why we don't rebound well. So, thanks that is all I wanted to know.

[BM1090]

The perception is that we are a poor rebounding team. Even the analysts at half time pointed that out and from what I have seen I agree with them. Regardless were 9-1, 18-3 and ranked 9th so it has not hurt us so far. However, many have explained very well here why we don't rebound well. So, thanks that is all I wanted to know.

We aren't a poor rebounding team. That should be the takeaway. Not great, maybe not even good. But not poor.

[muwarrior69]

We aren't a poor rebounding team. That should be the takeaway. Not great, maybe not even good. But not poor.

OK, not great.

[jesmu84]

The perception is that we are a poor rebounding team. Even the analysts at half time pointed that out and from what I have seen I agree with them. Regardless were 9-1, 18-3 and ranked 9th so it has not hurt us so far. However, many have explained very well here why we don't rebound well. So, thanks that is all I wanted to know.

So you admit you agree with perception rather than statistical fact?

[JakeBarnes]

So you admit you agree with perception rather than statistical fact?

The American Way.

[MuMark]

We force tons of turnovers and don't turn the ball over ourselves which certainly inflates the raw rebounding totals of our opponents since defensive rebounds are usually much easier to get.

Context matters

[Judge Smails]

What do you think the relevance of the raw numbers is?

If my opponent misses 50 FGs all game  and I rebound all 50 of them, I have a 100% DR% and 50 defensive rebounds.

Meanwhile, I miss 100 shots but my opponent only rebounds 80 of them. They have a DR% of 80% and 80 defensive rebounds.I think it's a BC rather than a B-

Who had a better rebounding game? The team that grabbed 100% of the available defensive rebounds but only got 70 total rebounds? Or the team that grabbed 80% of them but got 80 total rebounds?

50/50 is an A+. 80/100 is a B-.

I think it's a BC rather than a B-

[THRILLHO]

Ken pomeroy makes the useful point that offensive and defensive rebounding are really different stats and its not that meaningful to talk about whether a team is good at "rebounding" since they're not correlated. Interesting read overall.
https://kenpom.com/blog/when-rebounding-needs-no-adjective/

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The perception is that we are a poor rebounding team. Even the analysts at half time pointed that out and from what I have seen I agree with them. Regardless were 9-1, 18-3 and ranked 9th so it has not hurt us so far. However, many have explained very well here why we don't rebound well. So, thanks that is all I wanted to know.

I think this is evidence that halftime analysts only have access to raw numbers at halftime.

[muwarrior69]

We suck at rebounding, but we already knew that.