Potential Strike Tomorrow

[MuggsyB]

Very concerning.  Gut Scoop community feeling?

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Unlikely, been a while since I bowled. It’s not gonna be pretty

[jesmu84]

Very concerning.  Gut Scoop community feeling?

Why is a strike concerning?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

East Coast Port strike on October 1.
Will heavily disrupt container shipments to and from every East coast port.

[MuggsyB]

East Coast Port strike on October 1.
Will heavily disrupt container shipments to and from every East coast port.

 

Exactly.  The supply chain issues could be a s-show. 

[Herman Cain]

 

Exactly.  The supply chain issues could be a s-show.

Automation is a big issue in this strike.
https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2024/longshoremen-at-key-us-ports-threatening-to-strike-over-automation-and-pay/

[Spotcheck Billy]

Automation is a big issue in this strike.
https://www.ap.org/news-highlights/spotlights/2024/longshoremen-at-key-us-ports-threatening-to-strike-over-automation-and-pay/

The ILA etc. have been kicking/screaming to delay automation for years. It will eventually have to happen.

[MUBurrow]

Yeah, the real issue here is the continued concentration of the benefits of automation, not that it exists.

[jesmu84]

 

Exactly.  The supply chain issues could be a s-show.

So your concern is for possible supply chain disruption?

Any concern for the material conditions of the striking workers?

[JWags85]

So your concern is for possible supply chain disruption?

Any concern for the material conditions of the striking workers?

On my list of sympathies with workers striking for better pay/working conditions, longshoremen are pretty far down the list. Extremely well compensated job that is passed down generationally with barriers to entry. 

My cousin’s husband is a VMI educated engineer with a masters from VT who works at the ports in Norfolk/Newport News and he’s looking at an MBA needed to get into higher management cause he’s low paid peasant compared to the longshoremen.

I respect their right to strike and I’m not suggesting some union busting nonsense, but I don’t think it’s callous for people to be focusing on worries about major supply chain disruptions and not the plight of 6 figure earning employees looking for a 75% raise while resisting technological progress implemented at other ports world wide.

[4everwarriors]

Shut 'er down, aina?

[Uncle Rico]

Shut 'er down, aina?

Why?

[Jockey]

Why?

He's joyful when MU loses and joyful if the country loses.

[Uncle Rico]

He's joyful when MU loses and joyful if the country loses.

Oh, I know the answer. 

[MuggsyB]

On my list of sympathies with workers striking for better pay/working conditions, longshoremen are pretty far down the list. Extremely well compensated job that is passed down generationally with barriers to entry. 

My cousin’s husband is a VMI educated engineer with a masters from VT who works at the ports in Norfolk/Newport News and he’s looking at an MBA needed to get into higher management cause he’s low paid peasant compared to the longshoremen.

I respect their right to strike and I’m not suggesting some union busting nonsense, but I don’t think it’s callous for people to be focusing on worries about major supply chain disruptions and not the plight of 6 figure earning employees looking for a 75% raise while resisting technological progress implemented at other ports world wide.

This will have tremendous impact on truckers and farmers, not just these Union members. 

[4everwarriors]

When da goin' gets tough, da tough get goin', aina?

[WhiteTrash]

I'm cool with them striking, but I can confirm the longshoremen are the textbook example of the old-boys club. Membership and advancement are based upon who you know and not what you know. (I guess I should qualify, I know for the Pacific coast union)

[Lennys Tap]

I'm cool with them striking, but I can confirm the longshoremen are the textbook example of the old-boys club. Membership and advancement are based upon who you know and not what you know. (I guess I should qualify, I know for the Pacific coast union)

They certainly have that right but I don’t think they’ll get a lot of sympathy from the public.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

They certainly have that right but I don’t think they’ll get a lot of sympathy from the public.

I can't believe that I'm admitting it, but I actually agree with Lenny.
With the scenes of destruction from Hurricane Helene this seems out-of-place.  They should announce they are postponing striking for a week due to the natural disaster so as not to disturb recovery and to give them more time to negotiate a contract.

[jesmu84]

On my list of sympathies with workers striking for better pay/working conditions, longshoremen are pretty far down the list. Extremely well compensated job that is passed down generationally with barriers to entry. 

My cousin’s husband is a VMI educated engineer with a masters from VT who works at the ports in Norfolk/Newport News and he’s looking at an MBA needed to get into higher management cause he’s low paid peasant compared to the longshoremen.

I respect their right to strike and I’m not suggesting some union busting nonsense, but I don’t think it’s callous for people to be focusing on worries about major supply chain disruptions and not the plight of 6 figure earning employees looking for a 75% raise while resisting technological progress implemented at other ports world wide.

Thank you for coming to this with legitimate discussion.

[mu_hilltopper]

Decent article about longshoreman salaries ..

https://archive.is/20240930212521/https://www.barrons.com/articles/port-pay-dock-workers-pay-demands-7e5b52dd

[Scoop Snoop]

Decent article about longshoreman salaries ..

https://archive.is/20240930212521/https://www.barrons.com/articles/port-pay-dock-workers-pay-demands-7e5b52dd

They are also against automation of gates, cranes, and on-site truck movement. This is, I think, of greater importance long term. Modern day Luddites,   

[rocky_warrior]

They are also against automation of gates, cranes, and on-site truck movement. This is, I think, of greater importance long term. Modern day Luddites,

Right, MUScoop has thrived since we switched to 98% automated posts.

[CreightonWarrior]

Right, MUScoop has thrived since we switched to 98% automated posts.

This explains the celeb obits, Anders, Aaron, and Hauser updates.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This explains the celeb obits, Anders, Aaron, and Hauser updates.

It's definitely AI...artificial ignorance.

[WhiteTrash]

It's definitely AI...artificial ignorance.

Or maybe, Actual Ignorance?

[Scoop Snoop]

Right, MUScoop has thrived since we switched to 98% automated posters.

FIFY

[jficke13]

This will have tremendous impact on truckers and farmers, not just these Union members.

I mean isn't that the point? The reason that they have what they perceive as leverage?

[JWags85]

They are also against automation of gates, cranes, and on-site truck movement. This is, I think, of greater importance long term. Modern day Luddites,

Its pretty eye opening to look at the offloading/dock process in the US compared to other places in the world as a result.

Also, a huge part of this whole issue is "touch fees".  Basically, the process is far less efficient and shipments end up getting trucked farther by truck or rail because unions get huge fees anytime a crane is used (touched).  So a shipment that might be moved by crane 2/3/4 times at a port in China or the EU is only moved once by a crane.  That, combined with red tape in accordance with the Jones Act, leads to massive inefficiency protected fiercely by the Union.

Decent article about longshoreman salaries ..

https://archive.is/20240930212521/https://www.barrons.com/articles/port-pay-dock-workers-pay-demands-7e5b52dd

This also reminded me of an old coworker of mine at Pepsi.  Younger sales guy, from Seattle.  At a company offsite, it came up that his dad worked at the docks in Seattle, specifically as a crane operator.  One of the marketing managers, a classic Northwestern/UM/UofC MBA type, kind of panderingly asked "oh are you the first in your family to go to college?" cause he went to U of Washington on scholarship.

He was buzzed, so I think he got a bit cocky/defensive..."well no, I have an older sister who went to Gonzaga.  We both got scholarships cause we got really good grades at the private school we went to for middle/high school.  My dad didn't go to college but he has an $80K pick up truck and got my mom a Corvette for her 50th birthday..."

In a different situation it would have been douchey, but it was pretty funny that she clearly interpreted him as some modern day Loretta Lynn type from blue collar poverty and had no clue of the compensation for longshoremen and the like.

[muwarrior69]

They are also against automation of gates, cranes, and on-site truck movement. This is, I think, of greater importance long term. Modern day Luddites,

Not any different than the writers and actors strike opposing AI and CGI generated content.

[Scoop Snoop]

Not any different than the writers and actors strike opposing AI and CGI generated content.

The small manufacturing business I had was a commercial woodshop operation. When the production workers worried about my purchasing more machinery that increased efficiency, I brought in a hand saw, a paint brush, some chisels, and a hand-cranked drill and laid them on a table. I told them we could use tools like those if they would like, but that the company would be bankrupt in less than a month and then they would have no jobs. They got a laugh out of my little act. Then I told them that the best job security was to out produce our competitors and take their business away. The business was expanding rapidly, and my investment in machinery, along with employees who "got it" and ran the shop efficiently, resulted in success. Our cross-town competitors struggled with slow, labor-intensive practices. We ran circles around them.

[jesmu84]

The small manufacturing business I had was a commercial woodshop operation. When the production workers worried about my purchasing more machinery that increased efficiency, I brought in a hand saw, a paint brush, some chisels, and a hand-cranked drill and laid them on a table. I told them we could use tools like those if they would like, but that the company would be bankrupt in less than a month and then they would have no jobs. They got a laugh out of my little act. Then I told them that the best job security was to out produce our competitors and take their business away. The business was expanding rapidly, and my investment in machinery, along with employees who "got it" and ran the shop efficiently, resulted in success. Our cross-town competitors struggled with slow, labor-intensive practices. We ran circles around them.

Did your workers share equally in the production gains? Or merely keep their jobs?

[muwarrior69]

The small manufacturing business I had was a commercial woodshop operation. When the production workers worried about my purchasing more machinery that increased efficiency, I brought in a hand saw, a paint brush, some chisels, and a hand-cranked drill and laid them on a table. I told them we could use tools like those if they would like, but that the company would be bankrupt in less than a month and then they would have no jobs. They got a laugh out of my little act. Then I told them that the best job security was to out produce our competitors and take their business away. The business was expanding rapidly, and my investment in machinery, along with employees who "got it" and ran the shop efficiently, resulted in success. Our cross-town competitors struggled with slow, labor-intensive practices. We ran circles around them.

When 45k long shoreman shutdown all the ports, except on the west coast, there is little chance they'll be put out of business. 

[Scoop Snoop]

Did your workers share equally in the production gains? Or merely keep their jobs?

I cut their pay to minimum wage. And told them they were lucky that I didn't fire them.

[jesmu84]

I cut their pay to minimum wage. And told them they were lucky that I didn't fire them.

😂😂

[Scoop Snoop]

When 45k long shoreman shutdown all the ports, except on the west coast, there is little chance they'll be put out of business.

I do not see how this is at all relevant.  My point was efficiency improvements are essential to increased profitability and increased profitability is essential to having money wage and benefit increases. I was able to not only increase wages and benefits but also institute a bonus system based upon productivity. My employees were much longer term than those in other small manufacturing companies, so I guess I must have done something right. They had the right to size up new employees to determine if they would be good team members. In other words, they could recommend that a slacker could be quickly booted out. I warned new employees about this, but some apparently did not think I was serious. Some didn't last an entire day they were such screw offs.

[rocky_warrior]

except on the west coast

And the west coast guys are licking their chops at all the potential overtime, already being under a newish contract and all...

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

I was reading this morning that President Biden was remarking he was not happy to hear that the port strike was delaying deliveries of supplies to Helene stricken areas.

Leads me to think he is considering invoking Taft-Hartley sooner than later for hurricane relief if no progress is seen on strike resolution. 

[Skatastrophy]

I was reading this morning that President Biden was remarking he was not happy to hear that the port strike was delaying deliveries of supplies to Helene stricken areas.

Leads me to think he is considering invoking Taft-Hartley sooner than later for hurricane relief if no progress is seen on strike resolution. 

Biden said he doesn't believe in Taft-Hartley.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Biden said he doesn't believe in Taft-Hartley.

He has to say that.

[Dickthedribbler]

Biden said he doesn't believe in Taft-Hartley.

Someone would have to explain it to him first.

[Hards Alumni]

Someone would have to explain it to him first.

 

[Skatastrophy]

more context from the president

Q    Mr. President, will you intervene in the dockworkers strike if they go on strike on Tuesday?

THE PRESIDENT:  No.

Q    Why not?

THE PRESIDENT:  Because there’s collective bargaining, and I don’t believe in Taft-Hartley.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

more context from the president

Only the Railway Labor Act I guess

[Lennys Tap]

The small manufacturing business I had was a commercial woodshop operation. When the production workers worried about my purchasing more machinery that increased efficiency, I brought in a hand saw, a paint brush, some chisels, and a hand-cranked drill and laid them on a table. I told them we could use tools like those if they would like, but that the company would be bankrupt in less than a month and then they would have no jobs. They got a laugh out of my little act. Then I told them that the best job security was to out produce our competitors and take their business away. The business was expanding rapidly, and my investment in machinery, along with employees who "got it" and ran the shop efficiently, resulted in success. Our cross-town competitors struggled with slow, labor-intensive practices. We ran circles around them.

Union or non union shop?

[Scoop Snoop]

Union or non union shop?

Non union. Once I got the right guys in place, everyone was happier. There is a whole lot to be said for listening to employee's thoughts, concerns, and ideas. The "right guys" group loved running their own show to a large degree and earning extra money via the bonus (based entirely of exceeding the very attainable production goals). On their own, they came up with little modifications to their workstations to make them more efficient. When I noticed that, I went to the bank and got some $100 bills and handed them to the clever workers.

[4everwarriors]

Buffoon can't spell Taft-Hartley let alone know what it is, aina?

[Uncle Rico]

Buffoon can't spell Taft-Hartley let alone know what it is, aina?

Yeah, I have little doubt Rocket could spell it or explain it

[Pakuni]

Buffoon can't spell Taft-Hartley let alone know what it is, aina?

If only he were smart enough to accomplish something truly impressive in life, like drilling teeth.
Instead, he and his feeble brain had to settle for being leader of the free world.

[Pakuni]

Strike suspended until Jan. 15

https://apnews.com/article/longshoremen-strike-ports-dockworkers-agreement-86fac07d1189e11ca4816b2cbf37affb

[jesmu84]

Strike suspended until Jan. 15

https://apnews.com/article/longshoremen-strike-ports-dockworkers-agreement-86fac07d1189e11ca4816b2cbf37affb

Union asked for 77% increase. Management previous offered 50%. The strike led to agreement at 62%.

Good all around

[GOO]

The republican party used to be free traders, for good reason. I agree.  Learned their lesson in the 1930s.  Until trump came on the scene and changed it all. I don’t agree.

The Econ teacher in Ferris Buellers Day off mentioned it in a classic manner.

[JWags85]

Union asked for 77% increase. Management previous offered 50%. The strike led to agreement at 62%.

Good all around

Not if they continue to be antiquated doofuses about technology.

[MuggsyB]

Not if they continue to be antiquated doofuses about technology.

Excellent point JWags. 

[jesmu84]

Not if they continue to be antiquated doofuses about technology.

If organizations want to use technology and automation to enhance productivity while maintaining worker jobs, I don't have a problem with that.

If organizations want to use technology and automation solely to eliminate jobs as means to generate more profit by lowering labor costs through job elimination, I don't agree with that.

I don't have a problem with unions fighting the latter.

It sounds like our poster scoop was the former.

[MuggsyB]

If organizations want to use technology and automation to enhance productivity while maintaining worker jobs, I don't have a problem with that.

If organizations want to use technology and automation solely to eliminate jobs as means to generate more profit by lowering labor costs through job elimination, I don't agree with that.

I don't have a problem with unions fighting the latter.

It sounds like our poster scoop was the former.

You're not looking at the whole picture. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If organizations want to use technology and automation to enhance productivity while maintaining worker jobs, I don't have a problem with that.

If organizations want to use technology and automation solely to eliminate jobs as means to generate more profit by lowering labor costs through job elimination, I don't agree with that.

I don't have a problem with unions fighting the latter.

It sounds like our poster scoop was the former.

That’s not really how it works.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Not if they continue to be antiquated doofuses about technology.

I would think the union would want to negotiate fully paid retraining so the workers could take a new job at the port that automation would open up.

[Hards Alumni]

I would think the union would want to negotiate fully paid retraining so the workers could take a new job at the port that automation would open up.

Yes.  I'm sure there will be something in the new deal to automate.

[Viper]

JWags85 and Scoop Scoop, appreciate your posts on this 👌

[Jay Bee]

Unions are gr8 if u don’t believe in urself

[Spotcheck Billy]

If organizations want to use technology and automation to enhance productivity while maintaining worker jobs, I don't have a problem with that.

If organizations want to use technology and automation solely to eliminate jobs as means to generate more profit by lowering labor costs through job elimination, I don't agree with that.

I don't have a problem with unions fighting the latter.

It sounds like our poster scoop was the former.

Our ports are terrible when ranked by Turn Times which is critical towards costs. This report shows that the best US port for turn times is Charleston, SC. Unfortunately it comes in at a lowly 53rd. They absolutely need to automate just to get competitive.
https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/server/api/core/bitstreams/6cebb847-6f46-44e7-9533-12ac893b3693/content

[Hards Alumni]

Our ports are terrible when ranked by Turn Times which is critical towards costs. This report shows that the best US port for turn times is Charleston, SC. Unfortunately it comes in at a lowly 53rd. They absolutely need to automate just to get competitive.
https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/server/api/core/bitstreams/6cebb847-6f46-44e7-9533-12ac893b3693/content

I think the implication that jesmu was making was that there needs to be a balance between automation and worker compensation.

Many places automate processes and then cut labor and pass the profits to management/ownership.

[Zog from Margo]

Unions are gr8 if u don’t believe in urself

Or if you don’t think 8 year olds should work in coal mines.

[tower912]

Or if you don't want to be punished/fired for petty, personal, or political reasons.