Stay Safe Florida Scoopers

[pbiflyer]

You lost me at 'coffee.'

Psycho. 

[tower912]

Why don't they ever  have the designer diet Pepsi, Pepsi Zero, Dew Zero fundraiser?

[jesmu84]

Why don't they ever  have the designer diet Pepsi, Pepsi Zero, Dew Zero fundraiser?

Diet dew>dew zero

[Scoop Snoop]

OK, to get back on subject, the biggest problem too many Floridians have was tornados. In our community, the outer bands of Milton spawned F3 tornados in Southern Indian River and Northern St. Lucie Counties. We have a hunk of our county that is either severely damaged or destroyed.

Our Roman Catholic Church lost a part of its roof, has a big hole in the ceiling to the sanctuary and has significant damage to our southern oaks on the property. My wife has a close friend who lost her roof, had rain in her living room, had trees fall on both her cars and has a significant rebuild cost.

Our state will recover but the challenge too many of our fellow Floridians have is their homes and condos are not built to current hurricane standards found in our post 2003 building standards. Our newer buildings survived wekll.

The obvious question then is...can the pre 2003 homes and condos be retrofitted (for lack of a better term), and if so, at what cost?  Another question-do the remaining insurance companies in Florida charge higher premiums for pre 2003 construction? I would certainly expect them to.

You mentioned the post 2003 construction surviving well, but how much tree damage was there in relation to wind/rain/flooding structural damage. I'm guessing the overall gist of your post was that the post 2003 homes did much better but doesn't still leave other types of property damage that could easily reoccur?

[Jockey]

Why don't they ever  have the designer diet Pepsi, Pepsi Zero, Dew Zero fundraiser?

See, you're still crazy. I agree with you on coffee, but it's cherry pepsi only.

[dgies9156]

The obvious question then is...can the pre 2003 homes and condos be retrofitted (for lack of a better term), and if so, at what cost?  Another question-do the remaining insurance companies in Florida charge higher premiums for pre 2003 construction? I would certainly expect them to.

You mentioned the post 2003 construction surviving well, but how much tree damage was there in relation to wind/rain/flooding structural damage. I'm guessing the overall gist of your post was that the post 2003 homes did much better but doesn't still leave other types of property damage that could easily reoccur?

Brother Snoop:

It's doubtful. Most of the pre-2003 residential buildings are frame construction. While some retrofits, such as improved roof strapping may be possible, the difference between frame construction and steel-reinforced concrete is night and day. Retrofitting to that level would basically require leveling and starting over.

Our legislature has recently become very tough on condos and the result has been a statewide bloodbath. The days of low assessments offered on the altar of deferred maintenance are over. Condo owners don't like facing reality and to do that to ever pre-2007 building in Florida would be something few legislators in our state would take on.

As to insurance rates, we looked at a pre-2003 house when we bought our current property. Our current insurance premium is $6,500. That home had an insurance premium of $15,000. So yes, older buildings are charged more but we get some of the effect too. Both houses had about the same value.

Tree damage was substantial. The Spanish Oaks in Vero Beach were butchered by our storm. My biggest fear on our home is a king palm falls on the roof!

[Scoop Snoop]

Thanks, dgies. Just curiosity on my part. I have never been a Florida fan, and did not know that steel-reinforced concrete is the new normal, so yeah...short of wrapping a pre 2003 house in concrete  , retrofitting is not feasible. Glad that you love the area. You mentioned a king palm through the roof as your biggest fear, but what about flooding? That's a silent home killer.

I noticed quite a few damaged or destroyed double wides among the more modest dwellings. The lower income people in particular seem to be in a bad position.

[dgies9156]

Thanks, dgies. Just curiosity on my part. I have never been a Florida fan, and did not know that steel-reinforced concrete is the new normal, so yeah...short of wrapping a pre 2003 house in concrete  , retrofitting is not feasible. Glad that you love the area. You mentioned a king palm through the roof as your biggest fear, but what about flooding? That's a silent home killer.

I noticed quite a few damaged or destroyed double wides among the more modest dwellings. The lower income people in particular seem to be in a bad position.

Brother Snoop:

Thanks. I live on a barrier island (Indian River Shores) and we watch flooding carefully. However, we are at the high spot on the island (20 feet) and have a 10 foot berms by the beach, Florida A1A, a midrise condo building, retention pond and a block of our neighbors' homes between us and a flood.

We are one of the few homes in our neighborhood not in a flood plain. We also have excellent to outstanding flood drainage into storm sewers and deep drainage canals nearby.

As to mobile homes, the problems in Florida are no different than in Iowa, Nebraska or Kansas. When severe weather hits, a mobile home is not where I would want to be. The people who died at Spanish Oaks, just outside Vero Beach, were in mobile homes. There are shelters in our state as well as others where mobile home residents can go.

[MU82]

My best NC friend has a place in the mountains where flooding from Helene was horrific, and my cousin lives in St. Pete near where Milton struck. Both were very impressed with the FEMA response.

My cousin, a Republican, naturally credited DeSantis, but that's ok. Whatever it took, it's nice to hear that rumors about poor FEMA response were pure partisan political BS from the pathological liar at the top of his party and his sycophants.

[Herman Cain]

Brother Snoop:

Thanks. I live on a barrier island (Indian River Shores) and we watch flooding carefully. However, we are at the high spot on the island (20 feet) and have a 10 foot berms by the beach, Florida A1A, a midrise condo building, retention pond and a block of our neighbors' homes between us and a flood.

We are one of the few homes in our neighborhood not in a flood plain. We also have excellent to outstanding flood drainage into storm sewers and deep drainage canals nearby.

As to mobile homes, the problems in Florida are no different than in Iowa, Nebraska or Kansas. When severe weather hits, a mobile home is not where I would want to be. The people who died at Spanish Oaks, just outside Vero Beach, were in mobile homes. There are shelters in our state as well as others where mobile home residents can go.

Brother dgies9156:
We are on barrier island and on the ocean. So all we have is the dune. Any major storm surge in Atlantic and we are screwed .

Helene gusts of 81 tore up part of roof  and haven't been repaired just have tarp up there.

We are pre 2003 , with some roof strapping . Our insurance premiums are total about 17 k between basic, flood and secondary flood. 2 percent wind deductible because we put in Hurricane Shutters and Garage Door and covered every opening . If disaster happens Chubb will pay full replacement cost.

 

[pbiflyer]

Thanks, dgies. Just curiosity on my part. I have never been a Florida fan, and did not know that steel-reinforced concrete is the new normal, so yeah...short of wrapping a pre 2003 house in concrete  , retrofitting is not feasible. Glad that you love the area. You mentioned a king palm through the roof as your biggest fear, but what about flooding? That's a silent home killer.

I noticed quite a few damaged or destroyed double wides among the more modest dwellings. The lower income people in particular seem to be in a bad position.

It's not, my childhood home built in 1960 was concrete block. Most houses built in the 60s 70s and 80s were concrete block. While  there are some that are wood frame, like my current home, the vast majority have always been concrete block unless you're talking about homes built pre-1960. Our neighborhood has 600 homes and approximately 100 or so are wood frame. The houses were built in the 90s.
By the way, our house has survived unscathed direct hits from three category three hurricanes. But trees like the three big oak trees in our yard to present the biggest threat.

[Scoop Snoop]

It's not, my childhood home built in 1960 was concrete block. Most houses built in the 60s 70s and 80s were concrete block. While  there are some that are wood frame, like my current home, the vast majority have always been concrete block unless you're talking about homes built pre-1960. Our neighborhood has 600 homes and approximately 100 or so are wood frame. The houses were built in the 90s.
By the way, our house has survived unscathed direct hits from three category three hurricanes. But trees like the three big oak trees in our yard to present the biggest threat.

Thanks for the clarification. How well do block homes hold up? When a frame home loses its roof's structure the remainder of the home is in great danger as the roof holds the exterior walls into place. I'm hoping that those with block homes can repair the damage, although I am sure that it is often extensive. Please understand that I am guessing (not a Floridian) and do not, in any way, want to come off as dismissing the amount of not only damage but also heartache.

[pbiflyer]

Thanks for the clarification. How well do block homes hold up? When a frame home loses its roof's structure the remainder of the home is in great danger as the roof holds the exterior walls into place. I'm hoping that those with block homes can repair the damage, although I am sure that it is often extensive. Please understand that I am guessing (not a Floridian) and do not, in any way, want to come off as dismissing the amount of not only damage but also heartache.

Losing a roof regardless of construction is pretty devastating. In general, concrete block certainly hold up better. But really, most devastation to houses in hurricanes aren't from wind damage, but from storm surge, things flying into, falling on houses, and the associated tornadoes that spin up, as was the case with Milton. We didn't have severe wind, but lots of homes were damaged or destroyed by tornadoes, even though we were 100 miles from the eye.
New roofs and other home improvements have to meet building codes. Roof tie downs, stronger shutter rules are examples. In South Florida our codes were updated after Andrew happened in 1992. The rest of the state took longer.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm not one to often agree with Lenny, but the attacks on him here seem to be more attacking the person than it is what he said.

Lenny I read your posts as follows.

Poster 1 Suggests that dimwits who believe Dems are controlling the weather shouldn't be allowed to vote, otherwise it is cancelling "smart" voters votes.

You respond jokingly that voting should be restricted to people like you (and Poster 1) with IQs over 140.

Rico also responds jokingly.

You respond to that with a simple and accurate statement with the take-home message that we have to be careful when we start suggesting that "dimwits" shouldn't be allowed to vote, because it might cancel a smart persons votes, because there are plenty of dimwits on both sides.

As I note, this is accurate, and as I read it was meant to be entirely separate from any individual stances (e.g. individuals threatening meteorologists), and just a general fact.

All of that seems reasonable, and takes nothing away from the fact that the individuals threatening meteorologists are dimwits. Dimwits that should still be allowed to vote.

Exactly. Thank you, Forgetful, for actually reading and comprehending what I posted. You and I frequently (politely) disagree but you always give a fair assessment of what I say and what it means rather than twisting it into something unrecognizable "just because". Sad that it's the exception rather than the rule around here.

[Pakuni]

Poster 1 Suggests that dimwits who believe Dems are controlling the weather shouldn't be allowed to vote, otherwise it is cancelling "smart" voters votes.

Nobody wrote this.
Warriors4ever wrote "What's so discouraging reading accounts like that is that those people threatening meteorologists (!) have the same vote I do...."

Which is true. But he never wrote, suggested or implied that such dimwits should be disenfranchised.

You respond to that with a simple and accurate statement with the take-home message that we have to be careful when we start suggesting that "dimwits" shouldn't be allowed to vote, because it might cancel a smart persons votes, because there are plenty of dimwits on both sides.

This is an exceptionally generous reading of what Lenny wrote.
Here's what he actually wrote:
"Tens of millions of dimwits will vote for both candidates this and every election year. Singling out one particular subset of dimwiticism and getting all "I'm so smart and they're so stupid" about it is actually a sign you may be in a subset of dimwits too. Sorry you missed the point."

There's nothing there about who should and shouldn't vote. Honestly, I don't even see where you can infer that's what he's writing about. A more accurate reading, IMO, is that "by calling some people stupid, you may be stupid yourself."
Which, to be fair, is true under some circumstances. But definitely not in a circumstance that was under discussion, i.e. calling people stupid for threatening meteorologists because the gubmint controls hurricanes.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Lenny's regularly posts something, and then follows up by saying something like "I didn't mean that," or "I never said that."

IOW he doesn't want to defend what he actually said. It's pretty obvious actually. He's scared of his own words.

[Lennys Tap]

Bat signal goes off, Pakuni and Sultan arrive with more pretzel twisting and outright lies. Rinse, wash, repeat.

[tower912]

The Hunters Point development is getting some positive press.   Designed to be hurricane proof and eco friendly and came through Milton intact and with power.   Too expensive, but a template has been established.

[Warriors4ever]

I wrote it. I never said anything about the right to vote. It's discouraging to me that we've reached the point where people threaten meteorologists, of all people,  no matter how much nonsense viewers  believe. I believe one several years ago actually ended up quitting his job over threats.
And just for the record, I am in the distinct minority in this group in being a she.

[MU82]

I can't believe all the defense of meteorologists around here. They obviously are to blame for the weather calamities that hurt our country, and everybody knows they especially target our most patriotic red states.

That's just science.

[Uncle Rico]

I wrote it. I never said anything about the right to vote. It's discouraging to me that we've reached the point where people threaten meteorologists, of all people,  no matter how much nonsense viewers  believe. I believe one several years ago actually ended up quitting his job over threats.
And just for the record, I am in the distinct minority in this group in being a she.

It should be discouraging!  Threatening meteorologists because of political reasons is flat out stupid and indefensible but we still deal with in the year 2024.

There's nothing political about the real threat of hurricanes nor is there anything political about the nature of hurricanes and how their path can change in a matter of moments.  But ignorance is considered a virtue by many.

It's easy to deflect from these fools and say "well, the other side has dimwits, too", instead of asking why does this one group fall for these stupid beliefs?

[Pakuni]

Bat signal goes off, Pakuni and Sultan arrive with more pretzel twisting and outright lies. Rinse, wash, repeat.

Outright lies = quoting you directly.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Outright lies = quoting you directly.

Yep. Again, doesn't own his words.

[jesmu84]

A more accurate reading, IMO, is that "by calling some people stupid, you may be stupid yourself."
Which, to be fair, is true under some circumstances. But definitely not in a circumstance that was under discussion, i.e. calling people stupid for threatening meteorologists because the gubmint controls hurricanes.

Exactly how I interpreted it

[jesmu84]

The FAA filings have a projected opening of 6PM tonight.  That was filed before the storm hit, but as I mentioned, I don't think the damage was too severe here.  Don't quote me on it, but I would be surprised if they aren't flying in and out relatively normally come Friday morning.

Made it with no problem. Appreciate the info wags