The power (electricity) thread!

[rocky_warrior]

Energy is really hard to store long term but it’s getting much better. There’s been some pretty interesting work going on involving advanced storage with hybrid wind/solar farms (peak energy demand often coincides with high generation of one or the other but not both).

Where you run into big problems with the equipment is aggressive production curtailment when demand is lower, so they’re trying to figure out how to best minimize that through siphoning off the power into storage. Electricity degrades pretty quickly, but if they can come up with some solutions there they can manage the grid demand and production way better. Would be a game changer for managing rural grids.

There’s so much open wasteland in Texas a lot of people pretty much realized they may as well generate power on it from free natural resources. Staffing these facilities is the real challenge but not relevant here.

Figured I'd go ahead and start a new thread.

Curious about your take on Iron Air batteries.  Apparently some coming to MN and CO.  Obviously not space/size efficient, but as you stated, plenty of land to work with.
https://www.energy-storage.news/xcel-energy-1gwh-minnesota-project-with-form-energys-iron-air-batteries-approved/
https://coloradosun.com/2023/01/27/xcel-energy-renewable-battery-storage-pueblo-comanche-form-energy/

I'm watching the progress on gravity batteries.  We'll see, I feel like pumped hydro is a better solution here.
https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/two-massive-gravity-batteries-are-nearing-completion-in-the-us-and-china

[jesmu84]

Figured I'd go ahead and start a new thread.

Curious about your take on Iron Air batteries.  Apparently some coming to MN and CO.  Obviously not space/size efficient, but as you stated, plenty of land to work with.
https://www.energy-storage.news/xcel-energy-1gwh-minnesota-project-with-form-energys-iron-air-batteries-approved/
https://coloradosun.com/2023/01/27/xcel-energy-renewable-battery-storage-pueblo-comanche-form-energy/

I'm watching the progress on gravity batteries.  We'll see, I feel like pumped hydro is a better solution here.
https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/two-massive-gravity-batteries-are-nearing-completion-in-the-us-and-china

Can you go through your process of solar + powerwall purchase/install? Or send PM?

Particularly interested in your solar

[rocky_warrior]

I buried it in the EV thread earlier, but let me know if you have other Qs...

I really should start a "solar" thread I guess, but my recent story as it relates to home backup batteries (and vaguely vehicle batteries).

Last summer I got a quote for solar on my roof, and really wanted a backup battery included.  Talked to a couple installers and they both said it made no financial sense to install a battery - basically you end up paying so much per kWh that you might as well go and buy an EV and get a much better value.  For a completely unrelated reason, I decided not to install last year.

About a month ago, I got an email from one of the companies about a deal on solar panels so I started the discussion again.  I didn't even ask about a battery, figuring it was still not a good option.  The quote I got back was for a few thousand less than last year (after all rebates and credits).  But he threw in another quote including the (new) Powerwall 3.  It was only $700 more than solar alone!  Also still less than last years quote.  Done deal.

What changed?  Well, a lot I guess.  But Colorado added a state tax credit for batteries that shaved a couple thousand off the price, and the Utility (Xcel) is paying for 50% of it to use a a grid backup solution (more on that shortly).  Additionally, the PW3 now has a DC/AC inverter (11.5kW) included at about the same cost as the PW1/2, which means that the installers don't need to purchase some other inverter for the solar installation. 

So back to the battery grid backup - Xcel pays for half of my battery, and I sign a contract that says Xcel can use up to 60% of my battery capacity to feed the grid during up to 60 days of the year when they expect bad weather / high peak demand.  40% is always reserved for my use (and 100% on the other 305 days per year).

Right.  My all in price (installed, permitted, connected) is almost exactly $20k after 30% fed tax credit (all might not have enough liabilities to be eligible), ~$5.5k from xcel, and ~$1.2k CO tax credit (for battery).  A good friend had a natural gas whole home Gererac installed for ~$11k.   Of course, I don't have natural gas service.  I could have a propane tank installed, but...more expense....so solar with a PW made more sense.  Especially since it'll likely pay itself off in 8 years (with $0 electric bills).  A Generac never really "pays itself off" - but is convenient.

Maybe it's all marketing, but the solar installer also claims the system / panels will basically immediately add $20k value to the house.  I'm not counting on it, but I'd believe it adds value.

The PW3 will do continuous 11.5kW, though the battery is "only" 13.5kWh so only a little over an hour if your using the whole capacity - and maybe not enough if you want to run the hot tub, dryer, oven, and water heater at the same time..  However, if I know I'm on battery, I can probably stretch it out to...well forever assuming it mostly charges the next day (only should take a little over 1hr of sun in my system).

Regarding my last sentence, the PW3 only charges the batteries at ~5kW, so it'll really take closer to 3 to charge.  The excess my house can use (or will be exported to the grid). 

edit:  Guess I never stated that it's a 9.6kW solar array, using 24 REC 400W panels (N-Peak3).  They're not the newest technology, but that's partly why I got a "deal".

[Pakuni]

This is timely.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/20/nx-s1-5120581/three-mile-island-nuclear-power-plant-microsoft-ai

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Figured I'd go ahead and start a new thread.

Curious about your take on Iron Air batteries.  Apparently some coming to MN and CO.  Obviously not space/size efficient, but as you stated, plenty of land to work with.
https://www.energy-storage.news/xcel-energy-1gwh-minnesota-project-with-form-energys-iron-air-batteries-approved/
https://coloradosun.com/2023/01/27/xcel-energy-renewable-battery-storage-pueblo-comanche-form-energy/

I'm watching the progress on gravity batteries.  We'll see, I feel like pumped hydro is a better solution here.
https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/two-massive-gravity-batteries-are-nearing-completion-in-the-us-and-china

I don’t know enough about iron or gravity batteries to offer an opinion on their efficacy in all honesty, only that these novel diverse experiments are good indicators of staying power of the battery concept itself.

I’ve actually been to that site in Pueblo you posted though! Got my green chile and covid from that work trip. For a place like Pueblo I’m assuming the pumped hydro isn’t as viable an option given the region’s worsening water constraints.

[rocky_warrior]

I don’t know enough about iron or gravity batteries to offer an opinion on their efficacy in all honesty, only that these novel diverse experiments are good indicators of staying power of the battery concept itself.

I’ve actually been to that site in Pueblo you posted though! Got my green chile and covid from that work trip. For a place like Pueblo I’m assuming the pumped hydro isn’t as viable an option given the region’s worsening water constraints.

Fair... Iron Air is the target at Pueblo, and it seems like a great solution.  We'll see

Sorry about the COVID, glad you got some green chili!

[Strokin 3s]

This is timely.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/20/nx-s1-5120581/three-mile-island-nuclear-power-plant-microsoft-ai

Was certainly good for CEG’s stock price 

[rocky_warrior]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/america-s-biggest-renewable-project-is-nearly-finished-the-remaining-challenges-and-lessons-learned/ar-AA1rvlYZ

“Permitting reform is essential to us accelerating the energy transition,” said Kristina Lund, the president of Pattern Energy, a private company based in San Francisco, in an interview. “Sun Zia was being permitted for 17 years. What that means is that there were four different presidential administrations, 11 different heads of the Bureau of Land Management. It’s highly costly. It’s really difficult to make sure that the prioritization stays constant.”

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/america-s-biggest-renewable-project-is-nearly-finished-the-remaining-challenges-and-lessons-learned/ar-AA1rvlYZ

I’m involved with this project! (For the love of god permitting reform now please)

[JWags85]

AWAY, the luggage brand, has the best  external batteries on the market (that aren't enormous or heavy for multiple devices at once).  This is just a fact.

That's the only firm and researched opinion on batteries I have at this time.

[rocky_warrior]

AWAY, the luggage brand, has the best  external batteries on the market (that aren't enormous or heavy for multiple devices at once).  This is just a fact.

That's the only firm and researched opinion on batteries I have at this time.

How many suitcases to power a house? 

[rocky_warrior]

I’m involved with this project! (For the love of god permitting reform now please)

Much smaller scale - but my roof solar project is complete, passed county inspection...and everything is sitting idle waiting for xcel to give permission to operate (interconnection agreement has already been signed...).  Sigh.  Nobody knows exactly when that will happen.

[rocky_warrior]

Ireland now planning an Iron Air battery system.  Again using Form Energy batteries...

https://renews.biz/95979/futurenergy-files-battery-planning-application/

[tower912]

Google 'chinese solar farm'.   That, in conjunction with their commitment to EV's, means that China might actually reduce their emissions to the point that it is noticeable globally.