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* '23-'24 SOTG Tally


2023-24 Season SoG Tally
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* Next up: The long cold summer

Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 11, 2024 ???
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Author Topic: “I’m worried that Marquette will miss the 2025 NCAA Tournament.” -Field of 68  (Read 8678 times)

Jay Bee

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The projected starting 5 went toe to toe at Creighton with next to no bench help.  Proof of concept, for me.  I trust Tre and Zaide.   If some combo of the young bigs can progress well enough to combine for 30 productive minutes, I can see a continuation of the last two seasons.

MU lost by 14 and gained their last lead of the game less than 7 minutes into the contest. Tre 0/4 and zero points.

#COLE
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

Shooter McGavin

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I have them as a .500 team at the moment.

Herm probably will too.

tower912

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MU lost by 14 and gained their last lead of the game less than 7 minutes into the contest. Tre 0/4 and zero points.

#COLE
Tight game on the road against a top 15 team for 36 minutes before playing only 6 caught up to them.   Playing without Oso with no prep time.  Players puking  behind the bench.   Heroic effort.    69-67 with 4:26 to go.
   One offseason better?  With some depth?  Sign me up.

#pedantic
« Last Edit: May 30, 2024, 11:04:22 AM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

NCMUFan

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Season shot.  Pack it in.

Uncle Rico

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Herm probably will too.

Well, if that’s the case, they’ll be far better than .500 then
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

Spotcheck Billy

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Tight game on the road against a top 15 team for 36 minutes before playing only 6 caught up to them.   Playing without Oso with no prep time.  Players puking  behind the bench.   Heroic effort.    69-67 with 4:26 to go.
   One offseason better?  With some depth?  Sign me up.

#pedantic

JB must not have even watched that game.

tower912

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JB is absolutely correct about the final score, MU'S last lead, and Tre's pukeworthy stats.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Herman Cain

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Herm probably will too.
I was overly concerned with last years non conference schedule. I loved our squad but over rated  the relative strength of our non conference  competition, was pretty close on conference versus where we ended up. 

Was not the first time I over rated non conference opponents over the years . COLE

Learned my lesson, will not let the trauma of Wojo influence  my season ouook thinking any more. We are in a beautiful new Shaka Era and I will just focus on our  team and let schedule play it self out.
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MU82

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Too many unanswered questions at this point in time and need a lot to go right and very little to go wrong.  I just don't see anyone matching or surpassing Kolek and Oso in production on this roster, but we are a long way away from the start of the season.

Sounds like most takes on Marquette in May 2022.

What if Shaka, who has proven over and over again that he is pretty darn good at developing players, proves it yet again?
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muwarrior69

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We had it last year. Our starting line-up was two seniors and three juniors.

That is my point, last year and this year.

wadesworld

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I was overly concerned with last years non conference schedule. I loved our squad but over rated  the relative strength of our non conference  competition, was pretty close on conference versus where we ended up. 

Was not the first time I over rated non conference opponents over the years . COLE

Learned my lesson, will not let the trauma of Wojo influence  my season ouook thinking any more. We are in a beautiful new Shaka Era and I will just focus on our  team and let schedule play it self out.

Marquette's non conference was just about as good as advertised.  Illinois was better but Kansas was worse.  Wisconsin was better but UCLA was worse.

We played a 3 and 5 seed on the road, a 1 and 4 seed (who would've been higher if not for injuries) on a neutral, and a 7 seed at home.

You didn't overrate our schedule.  You underrated our team.  You constantly proclaimed the team was a "greater than the sum of its parts" team.  We had 2 guys who will be on an NBA roster next year, and guys like Kam, Ben, and Chase could get there someday too.
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MU82

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Marquette's non conference was just about as good as advertised.  Illinois was better but Kansas was worse.  Wisconsin was better but UCLA was worse.

We played a 3 and 5 seed on the road, a 1 and 4 seed (who would've been higher if not for injuries) on a neutral, and a 7 seed at home.

You didn't overrate our schedule.  You underrated our team.  You constantly proclaimed the team was a "greater than the sum of its parts" team.  We had 2 guys who will be on an NBA roster next year, and guys like Kam, Ben, and Chase could get there someday too.

Yeah, that was all a fancy way for 9-9-9 to say: "I was wrong. Again."
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

“Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.” - George Washington

Big Papi

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I don't think you have to match or surpass TK's or Oso's production to have a quality team. As Goose says, experience matters. Kam and Stevie are three year starters. Joplin is a two year starter and was sixth man of the year. Chase has logged nice minutes and definitely made contributions in his first two seasons.

I understand where you and others are coming from.  I look at it as with all the pieces we have coming back and coming in, I feel we are taking a step back from the last 2 years.  Where we were a top 10 team the last 2 years, I think we are outside the top 20 right now.  A quality team that has definite weaknesses. 

TK and Oso are huge shoes to fill.  They were big time players that produced in big time moments.  I feel that our lack of desire to go grab a player to fill in at some of these areas of weaknesses is a huge, missed opportunity to keep us in that top 10-15 teams in the country.

We are good team.  This is a very good program.  We will make the tournament unless something happens to Kam.  He is the stud that can't miss a stretch of games.  I think that Shaka is a little too stubborn.  Hope I am wrong.

 


Scoop Snoop

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 1) I feel that our lack of desire to go grab a player to fill in at some of these areas of weaknesses is a huge, missed opportunity.

 2) I think that Shaka is a little too stubborn.

 

1) This issue has been beaten to death. Get over it!

2) Because of 1), I honestly think it is you, not Shaka, who is being stubborn.

I think of Shaka's system as a long-term strategy, interlinking the seasons with the promise of the development of players rather than "fill in some of these areas of weakness" via the portal. I see Shaka's plan as unfolding over the next several seasons. 

We will make the tourney. If our team takes a bit of a step down this season (very possible), it will not shake my faith in Shaka. Not even a little. But to some scoopers it would be a renewed call for going to the portal, a rallying cry for some sort of hybrid system that in reality would be no system at all. Leave hybrids to the auto industry.



Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

brewcity77

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1) This issue has been beaten to death. Get over it!

2) Because of 1), I honestly think it is you, not Shaka, who is being stubborn.

I think of Shaka's system as a long-term strategy, interlinking the seasons with the promise of the development of players rather than "fill in some of these areas of weakness" via the portal. I see Shaka's plan as unfolding over the next several seasons. 

We will make the tourney. If our team takes a bit of a step down this season (very possible), it will not shake my faith in Shaka. Not even a little. But to some scoopers it would be a renewed call for going to the portal, a rallying cry for some sort of hybrid system that in reality would be no system at all. Leave hybrids to the auto industry.

I think that really hits the nail on the head. After building his first roster, Shaka has prioritized retention and development. In the process, he delivered the two highest seeds in Marquette history and gone further in the NCAA tournament each year than the one before. If at some point this model stops working, then it can be questioned, but at this point, it's working about as well as could be hoped for.
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Big Papi

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1) This issue has been beaten to death. Get over it!

2) Because of 1), I honestly think it is you, not Shaka, who is being stubborn.

I think of Shaka's system as a long-term strategy, interlinking the seasons with the promise of the development of players rather than "fill in some of these areas of weakness" via the portal. I see Shaka's plan as unfolding over the next several seasons. 

We will make the tourney. If our team takes a bit of a step down this season (very possible), it will not shake my faith in Shaka. Not even a little. But to some scoopers it would be a renewed call for going to the portal, a rallying cry for some sort of hybrid system that in reality would be no system at all. Leave hybrids to the auto industry.

Oh I forgot, we should only wear blue and gold colored glasses here and not question or discuss anything.

If you are sick of the topic because it is beaten to death than don't read, reply or acknowledge.  Last I looked this was a discussion board with various opinions.

brewcity77

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Oh I forgot, we should only wear blue and gold colored glasses here and not question or discuss anything.

If you are sick of the topic because it is beaten to death than don't read, reply or acknowledge.  Last I looked this was a discussion board with various opinions.

So discussion means no one can criticize complaints that have thus far been proven unfounded? Sounds like you are less interested in discussion and more interested in people just blindly agreeing with you.
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Scoop Snoop

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Oh I forgot, we should only wear blue and gold colored glasses here and not question or discuss anything.

If you are sick of the topic because it is beaten to death than don't read, reply or acknowledge.  Last I looked this was a discussion board with various opinions.

 I offered my various opinion. And I will read, reply, or acknowledge anytime I damn well want to.
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

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tower912

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Y'all are 95% agreeing, 5% disagreeing.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Jay Bee

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Y'all are 95% agreeing, 5% disagreeing.

Lies!!  It’s 96%, 4%!!!!
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

tower912

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Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Scoop Snoop

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I was triggered by the word "stubborn" in Papi's post in describing Shaka. In its context, I read it as a criticism of Shaka, and I believe there have been others here who used the same word to describe their frustration with Shaka's refusal to go to the portal. In fairness to Papi, he had valid points regarding the team overall, but that does not mean that I am in full agreement with him.

So, why did "stubborn" trigger me? Because there is little, if any, acknowledgement by many "portal fans" that we had no transfers out, that a high-level portal player would be a starter-leaving a player who thought his time to shine had come sitting on the bench- and leaving the rest of the team nervous about being "portalled over" in the future, and also leaving prospects like Miletic having serious doubts about Shaka's words vs. his actions.

Although there would be no way to prove it undisputedly at season's end, I think a high-level transfer would have made the team stronger, but only for this coming season. The consequences of adding the transfer are stated in the above paragraph. Accepting the possibility (or likelihood if you please) of a step down (hopefully only a slight one) this season is inherent] in Shaka's long-term strategy and MO. Shaka is planning for the upcoming and future seasons with his system. Perhaps it is time to revive the "five years to judge" mantra.

I will shortly be heading out of town for the day, but will leave by stirring the pot on the portal question:

Do you think Shaka would have gone to the portal if Kam left, or would he stay with his no-portal strategy? 

Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

brewcity77

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I was triggered by the word "stubborn" in Papi's post in describing Shaka. In its context, I read it as a criticism of Shaka, and I believe there have been others here who used the same word to describe their frustration with Shaka's refusal to go to the portal. In fairness to Papi, he had valid points regarding the team overall, but that does not mean that I am in full agreement with him.

So, why did "stubborn" trigger me? Because there is little, if any, acknowledgement by many "portal fans" that we had no transfers out, that a high-level portal player would be a starter-leaving a player who thought his time to shine had come sitting on the bench- and leaving the rest of the team nervous about being "portalled over" in the future, and also leaving prospects like Miletic having serious doubts about Shaka's words vs. his actions.

Although there would be no way to prove it undisputedly at season's end, I think a high-level transfer would have made the team stronger, but only for this coming season. The consequences of adding the transfer are stated in the above paragraph. Accepting the possibility (or likelihood if you please) of a step down (hopefully only a slight one) this season is inherent] in Shaka's long-term strategy and MO. Shaka is planning for the upcoming and future seasons with his system. Perhaps it is time to revive the "five years to judge" mantra.

I will shortly be heading out of town for the day, but will leave by stirring the pot on the portal question:

Do you think Shaka would have gone to the portal if Kam left, or would he stay with his no-portal strategy?

I agree with all of this, and don't know the answer to the last question. But I do think the loyalty we are seeing from players is not in small part due to the loyalty reciprocated. But if we had some transfer levels that were normal, say that three players departed and we were adding the equivalent of Joplin, Gold, and Lowery in the portal, the people who think we don't take enough transfers would be over the moon.

Do I see guys like Pop Isaacs going to Creighton, Tarris Reid going to UConn, and John Hugley going to Xavier and think "boy, those would be nice on our roster"? Sure. But I'm not at all convinced that 1-2 years of any of them is going to be better than the 3-4 years we're getting out of guys like Tre Norman, Al Amadou, or Damarius Owens who might decide to go elsewhere had we taken those transfers, or the potential long-term culture damage that would do to the recruitment of a Ian Miletic or Adrian Stevens who are being recruited in large part based on relationships and culture.
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wadesworld

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I was triggered by the word "stubborn" in Papi's post in describing Shaka. In its context, I read it as a criticism of Shaka, and I believe there have been others here who used the same word to describe their frustration with Shaka's refusal to go to the portal. In fairness to Papi, he had valid points regarding the team overall, but that does not mean that I am in full agreement with him.

So, why did "stubborn" trigger me? Because there is little, if any, acknowledgement by many "portal fans" that we had no transfers out, that a high-level portal player would be a starter-leaving a player who thought his time to shine had come sitting on the bench- and leaving the rest of the team nervous about being "portalled over" in the future, and also leaving prospects like Miletic having serious doubts about Shaka's words vs. his actions.

Although there would be no way to prove it undisputedly at season's end, I think a high-level transfer would have made the team stronger, but only for this coming season. The consequences of adding the transfer are stated in the above paragraph. Accepting the possibility (or likelihood if you please) of a step down (hopefully only a slight one) this season is inherent] in Shaka's long-term strategy and MO. Shaka is planning for the upcoming and future seasons with his system. Perhaps it is time to revive the "five years to judge" mantra.

I will shortly be heading out of town for the day, but will leave by stirring the pot on the portal question:

Do you think Shaka would have gone to the portal if Kam left, or would he stay with his no-portal strategy?

I think Shaka has his system and believes in it.  I think we're in a far better place as a program than we have been since Al was around, but we still need to see the very top end results that we saw with Crean and Buzz.  I don't think Shaka is infallible.

I'm good with Shaka standing pat this year, as I don't think we're one player away from a Final Four or National Title team.  Build from within, give yourself a chance at a top 6 seed, and see what happens in March.  With NC State down in the 2nd half to Louisville and needing to win that and then 4 more games in the ACC Tournament just to make the NCAA Tournament, nobody saw them as a Final Four team.  We'll see what happens once we get to the Tournament.

I do think Shaka made an error in not replacing OMax last year.  We had 1 year left of Oso and Kolek, generational program players.  We were coming off a double BE title and a disappointing 2nd round exit, but still a 2 seed.  Returning everyone else, if you replace OMax you are a favorite to win an NCAA title.  Look at what Purdue, who has a similar reputation to MU's in player retention, did.  They went out and got Lance Jones and went from a first round exit to a national title game.  And nobody got scared off!  Heck, had players been scared off it still would've been well worth it.  We didn't add, and we kind of just stayed where we were, if not took a little step back.  Rosters and years like the one we had going into last year don't come around often.  I think Shaka made a mistake not capitalizing on that.

Also, where are the guys who would be scared off by adding more talent going to go that aren't also constantly looking to add more talent?  If they want to play high major basketball in today's day and age, that's the reality they're going to have to live with.  If they don't want to, they can transfer down to UWM and be "the guy" for as long as they have eligibility.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 09:59:41 AM by wadesworld »
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MUbiz

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Serious question - xfer portal era started in 2021. If Shaka is still at Texas or a blueblood, does he still take zero transfers? It would be easier to get a xfer to come to those blueblood and high end football schools.