[Paint Touches] What does the potential NCAA settlement mean for MU?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't think you really meant to write that.

What?

[MU82]

True. They have to preform on the field or court. Just like every other pro athlete.

The players, coaches, media and politicians want these athletes treated like the professionals they are, so people need to stop treating them like students and respect their wishes. Who cares if they understand economics or biology. Nobody expects Bucks players to quote Shakespere.

The schools and NCAA have been b1tch slapped for trying to deny these people thier place as pro athletes. I think we all need be respectful.

Every work place holds employees to some kind of standards.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Every work place holds employees to some kind of standards.

Including colleges and universities when they employ students. Why do people build these odd narratives?

[Uncle Rico]

Including colleges and universities when they employ students. Why do people build these odd narratives?

White Trash has made it clear he hates the new world of college athletics and wants the good ol’ days back.

It’s that simple and why he comes up with outlandish scenarios

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

White Trash has made it clear he hates the new world of college athletics and wants the good ol’ days back.

It’s that simple and why he comes up with outlandish scenarios

It would be nice if he actually made a logical argument.

[Billy Hoyle]

Making student-athletes employees allowed to collectively bargain may be problematic but that's a wait and see. MU82 makes a valid point so your extreme example is unlikely to occur. The bolded part is flat out inaccurate. The player was being held to a different standard than all other students at the university and the university was unable to provide a justification for doing so. The judicial opinion actually made sense. (Of course it appears that the university slow walked the ensuing internal investigation but that's a different issue.)

From his law firm:

Further, the Court found, using relevant case law (Ganden v. NCAA, 1006 WL 680000 at *6 (ND Ill. Nov. 21, 1996), Huntsonville Cmty. Unit Sch. Dist. No. 1 v. Illinois High Sch. Ass’n, 195 N.E.3d 662 (5th Dist. 2021)) that TJ would be irreparably harmed as 1) his draft stock had already begun to plummet since his suspension, 2) he could lose compensation through loss of his NIL deal as his name, image, and likeness is worth very little if he is not on the basketball court, and 3) he loses opportunities to play basketball at the highest level on a national stage.

[WhiteTrash]

What?

Ask any attorney or hr professional if your statement is correct.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Ask any attorney or hr professional if your statement is correct.

You don't think colleges and universities are allowed to enroll or employ who they wish?

[Herman Cain]

My guess is that what is current D1 College Sports will evolve into Minor League Sports. The Universities will license the use of their names to a business entity that will manage the teams or an entire league.

There would be a draft etc and player movement

There will be a second lower level for student athletes that will roughly be equivalent to todays D3 with no scholarships etc


The fans who have no affiliation with the University(eg Walmart Badger Fans most of SEC and Notre Dame etc) and consume their college sports through TV will not see any difference

In theory the networks could be the tram owners to ensure content

[WhiteTrash]

You don't think colleges and universities are allowed to enroll or employ who they wish?

There a many laws or legal precedents that govern the way schools, businesses and governmental entities can hire or conduct admissions.

Schools until recently did not "wish" to pay athletes or allow them to profit from NIL. Their desire to conduct business as they saw fit was not deemed allowable.

The Illinois player example from this year where the school's ability to do as they "wished" was denied.

Affirmative Action was shot down to not allow schools to do as they "wish".

Is it very crazy to envision, either by law suit, legislation, or simply a school's desire to win games that educational standards would be set aside? The core of any decision to do so would be that 1)the only viable option to advance one's professional athletic career is through college sports (that box is checked, correct?), and 2)that the academic requirements are not material to the players chosen career (I think that is a very easy box to check). 

Firefighter or police qualification exams can not ask candidates about calculus or philosophy because those are not material to performing the jobs they wish to peruse. Legal challenges have shaped those exams over the years and in those cases the "wishes" of a city, state or department have been denied.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yeah, none of this really addresses the point that colleges and universities can enroll who they wish and employ who they wish. None of what is occurring is going to force a schools to enroll someone, or force them to employ someone, they don't want to.

I mean...firefighter or police exams?  LOL...c'mon...  You're making a lot of leaps in logic here.

[WhiteTrash]

Yeah, none of this really addresses the point that colleges and universities can enroll who they wish and employ who they wish. None of what is occurring is going to force a schools to enroll someone, or force them to employ someone, they don't want to.

I mean...firefighter or police exams?  LOL...c'mon...  You're making a lot of leaps in logic here.

"none of this really addresses the point that colleges and universities can enroll who they wish and employ who they wish." Really? Please explain how my Affirmative Action example does not directly address your point.

To focus on the firefighter and police exams example is telling. I mentioned that last to point out that hiring policies are not an organizations' choice alone. What is occurring in college sports has been underpinned by arguments that these NCAA institutions should not be allowed to operate in a bubble with separate rules from the rest of the country. Hence my example.

We will not agree on this issue. That's fine.

[Shooter McGavin]

There a many laws or legal precedents that govern the way schools, businesses and governmental entities can hire or conduct admissions.

Schools until recently did not "wish" to pay athletes or allow them to profit from NIL. Their desire to conduct business as they saw fit was not deemed allowable.

The Illinois player example from this year where the school's ability to do as they "wished" was denied.

Affirmative Action was shot down to not allow schools to do as they "wish".

Is it very crazy to envision, either by law suit, legislation, or simply a school's desire to win games that educational standards would be set aside? The core of any decision to do so would be that 1)the only viable option to advance one's professional athletic career is through college sports (that box is checked, correct?), and 2)that the academic requirements are not material to the players chosen career (I think that is a very easy box to check). 

Firefighter or police qualification exams can not ask candidates about calculus or philosophy because those are not material to performing the jobs they wish to peruse. Legal challenges have shaped those exams over the years and in those cases the "wishes" of a city, state or department have been denied.

You could get the major league teams in every sport to pay their salaries as well effectively becoming the minor leagues.  Let’s just hope MU and the Big East will be triple A and not single A.   If they are single A, I personally wont have as much interest in “college basketball” any more.

[WhiteTrash]

You could get the major league teams in every sport to pay their salaries as well effectively becoming the minor leagues.  Let’s just hope MU and the Big East will be triple A and not single A.   If they are single A, I personally wont have as much interest in “college basketball” any more.

I don't think we can view college teams as anything but minor league organizations.

We'd be foolish to think any school would turn down capital investments if the source is legitimate and non-controversial, but my hope would be that the schools remain unaffiliated with major league teams. Probably wishful thinking.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

"none of this really addresses the point that colleges and universities can enroll who they wish and employ who they wish." Really? Please explain how my Affirmative Action example does not directly address your point.

Because if a college or university decides to enroll someone, they can. If they want to employ that person, they can.

And if they decide that they no longer want them employed as a basketball player, you can cease their employment. Just like you can the student who works at the library.  If they break a student code of some sort, they can decide that they should no longer be a student.

We will not agree on this issue. That's fine.

There is nothing to agree or disagree with. You are flat out wrong.

[Tyler COLEk]

"none of this really addresses the point that colleges and universities can enroll who they wish and employ who they wish." Really? Please explain how my Affirmative Action example does not directly address your point.

To focus on the firefighter and police exams example is telling. I mentioned that last to point out that hiring policies are not an organizations' choice alone. What is occurring in college sports has been underpinned by arguments that these NCAA institutions should not be allowed to operate in a bubble with separate rules from the rest of the country. Hence my example.

We will not agree on this issue. That's fine.

Employers/schools may employ/enroll whomever they wish, provided they are not discriminating against candidates on the basis of a characteristic protected under law. If you want to be pedantic, you can consider these anti-discrimination laws a restriction on employers' ability to choose candidates they want, but I don't think that's much of an argument.

[WhiteTrash]

Because if a college or university decides to enroll someone, they can. If they want to employ that person, they can.

And if they decide that they no longer want them employed as a basketball player, you can cease their employment. Just like you can the student who works at the library.  If they break a student code of some sort, they can decide that they should no longer be a student.


There is nothing to agree or disagree with. You are flat out wrong.

LOL. Dig In, Double Down.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

LOL. Dig In, Double Down.

Nope. As has been pointed out, you are being overly pedantic and not using any logic to support your argument.

The fact remains that colleges and universities can enroll and employ who they wish.

[WhiteTrash]

Employers/schools may employ/enroll whomever they wish, provided they are not discriminating against candidates on the basis of a characteristic protected under law. If you want to be pedantic, you can consider these anti-discrimination laws a restriction on employers' ability to choose candidates they want, but I don't think that's much of an argument.

The whole impetus for the changes in college sports have been based upon unfair labor practices. If you think that legislative changes and legal decisions were overstepping and unneeded for athletes who freely entered into the terms of their "employment", then to paint me as pedantic would be fair.

[brewcity77]

Firefighter or police qualification exams can not ask candidates about calculus or philosophy because those are not material to performing the jobs they wish to peruse. Legal challenges have shaped those exams over the years and in those cases the "wishes" of a city, state or department have been denied.

I'm going to guess you haven't taken many firefighter qualification examinations. You'd be surprised how much math, and college level math, is on there. Pumping dynamics are all mathematically based and understanding friction loss, pressures required to supply water vertically through a standpipe, and other mathematical concepts actually are relevant to public servants.

As far as philosophy, the bulk of the oral exam I took involved ethical questions and how to respond in various situations that mixed ethics and philosophy. All of those concepts go into the scoring system to differentiate candidates.

If anything, those topics have become more, not less, prevalent in recent years.

[MU82]

The whole impetus for the changes in college sports have been based upon unfair labor practices. If you think that legislative changes and legal decisions were overstepping and unneeded for athletes who freely entered into the terms of their "employment", then to paint me as pedantic would be fair.

Every work place holds employees to some kind of standards.

[WhiteTrash]

I'm going to guess you haven't taken many firefighter qualification examinations. You'd be surprised how much math, and college level math, is on there. Pumping dynamics are all mathematically based and understanding friction loss, pressures required to supply water vertically through a standpipe, and other mathematical concepts actually are relevant to public servants.

As far as philosophy, the bulk of the oral exam I took involved ethical questions and how to respond in various situations that mixed ethics and philosophy. All of those concepts go into the scoring system to differentiate candidates.

If anything, those topics have become more, not less, prevalent in recent years.

I have never taken a firefighters exam.

I was specific in the type of math I mentioned for a reason. My assumption is firefighters need significant knowledge of certain math, engineering, physics and chemistry.

And while, in a general sense, ethics is a branch of philosophy, but I don't think having logic based argument on the meaning of life or a background in the theories of Freud is a job requirement.

[WhiteTrash]

Every work place holds employees to some kind of standards.

Agreed, but they don't have complete independence on what the standards are.

[MU82]

Agreed, but they don't have complete independence on what the standards are.

True. But you have no idea what academic standards colleges and universities will and willn't be allowed to set for athletes and neither do I. But you're the only one here who keeps speculating over and over again on the subject as if he's an authority on it.

[WhiteTrash]

True. But you have no idea what academic standards colleges and universities will and willn't be allowed to set for athletes and neither do I. But you're the only one here who keeps speculating over and over again on the subject as if he's an authority on it.

I'm not the authority. Just a MU fan, posting on a fan site. But, I was not the only one making authoritative and definitive statements.

The point was, IMO, there a path for having non student players and, like with NIL and pay, the schools may not be making that decision. But a likely scenario could be that being a student is agreed to in a CBA. 

I didn't intend to say I know 100% that is happening.