NIL legal update

[jesmu84]

https://frontofficesports.com/pay-for-play-is-here-federal-judge-says-ncaa-cannot-enforce-any-nil-rules/

Free for all coming

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It just suspends a rule that everyone was ignoring anyway.

[jesmu84]

It just suspends a rule that everyone was ignoring anyway.

Thanks for clarifying

[HowardsWorld]

I believe the only thing that would help schools out from players transferring out after a year is that in the contract they sign they would have to repay all of the money if they leave for another school. If they leave for the NBA it would be like any normal player forfeiting his eligibility.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

How can anything be required to be repaid if it was by a third party for some service performed?

[rocket surgeon]

this is going to be the demise of "amateur" ncaa b-ball and probably football as well.  these guys are bouncing around like wack a moles.  how can one expect a coach to manage teams year to year under this type of duress?

some kind of contract NEEDS to be signed at least...a lot of time and energy goes into recruitment and retention of players as it is

this NIL thing seems to be making the rules as they go.  it has allowed what was once "under the table" negotiations to be continued in broad daylight

next up-salary caps and luxury taxes and hmmmm

[wadesworld]

this is going to be the demise of "amateur" ncaa b-ball and probably football as well.  these guys are bouncing around like wack a moles.  how can one expect a coach to manage teams year to year under this type of duress?

some kind of contract NEEDS to be signed at least...a lot of time and energy goes into recruitment and retention of players as it is

this NIL thing seems to be making the rules as they go.  it has allowed what was once "under the table" negotiations to be continued in broad daylight

next up-salary caps and luxury taxes and hmmmm

Right. It was always going on, so why will this suddenly end college athletics?

[Uncle Rico]

Right. It was always going on, so why will this suddenly end college athletics?

The playing field won’t be even!

[WhiteTrash]

How can anything be required to be repaid if it was by a third party for some service performed?

You can do almost anything under a legally executed contract.

A separate but relevant question, would anyone sign that agreement?

[WhiteTrash]

Some people need to pump their brakes. This is a preliminary injunction from an Eastern District of Tennessee judge. This issue is on the 10 yard line with 90 yards to go before the issue is settled.

[Uncle Rico]

Some people need to pump their brakes. This is a preliminary injunction from an Eastern District of Tennessee judge. This issue is on the 10 yard line with 90 yards to go before the issue is settled.

Game over

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You can do almost anything under a legally executed contract.

A separate but relevant question, would anyone sign that agreement?

Correct.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

this is going to be the demise of "amateur" ncaa b-ball and probably football as well.  these guys are bouncing around like wack a moles.  how can one expect a coach to manage teams year to year under this type of duress?

some kind of contract NEEDS to be signed at least...a lot of time and energy goes into recruitment and retention of players as it is

this NIL thing seems to be making the rules as they go.  it has allowed what was once "under the table" negotiations to be continued in broad daylight

next up-salary caps and luxury taxes and hmmmm

The demise of amateur athletics?  Good.

[HutchwasClutch]

Some people need to pump their brakes. This is a preliminary injunction from an Eastern District of Tennessee judge. This issue is on the 10 yard line with 90 yards to go before the issue is settled.

Agree.  Feels like this issue will ultimately end up in SC.

[Jables1604]

this is going to be the demise of "amateur" ncaa b-ball and probably football as well.  these guys are bouncing around like wack a moles.  how can one expect a coach to manage teams year to year under this type of duress?

some kind of contract NEEDS to be signed at least...a lot of time and energy goes into recruitment and retention of players as it is

this NIL thing seems to be making the rules as they go.  it has allowed what was once "under the table" negotiations to be continued in broad daylight

next up-salary caps and luxury taxes and hmmmm

So I’m sure you’re on board with players being able to unionize as an alternative, right?

[rocket surgeon]

So I’m sure you’re on board with players being able to unionize as an alternative, right?

  just saying...i feel sorry for the coaches who don't know what kind of team he's going to have from season to season.  unionize?  no, don't like that one either. 

all i'm saying is, if you're going to pay these guys, get em in a contract to provide some semblance of know ing who your core team is going to be

if they want to be paid, shouldn't the "school" have some say in the matter?  hell, do the players even have to go to "school" anymore?

[Uncle Rico]

  just saying...i feel sorry for the coaches who don't know what kind of team he's going to have from season to season.  unionize?  no, don't like that one either. 

all i'm saying is, if you're going to pay these guys, get em in a contract to provide some semblance of know ing who your core team is going to be

if they want to be paid, shouldn't the "school" have some say in the matter?  hell, do the players even have to go to "school" anymore?

Coaches get paid to manage their rosters.  If they can’t handle it, pay someone that can.

[Jables1604]

  just saying...i feel sorry for the coaches who don't know what kind of team he's going to have from season to season.  unionize?  no, don't like that one either. 

all i'm saying is, if you're going to pay these guys, get em in a contract to provide some semblance of know ing who your core team is going to be

if they want to be paid, shouldn't the "school" have some say in the matter?  hell, do the players even have to go to "school" anymore?

You mean the same type of “contract” that allows a coach to jump from one school to another without any consequences?

[rocket surgeon]

You mean the same type of “contract” that allows a coach to jump from one school to another without any consequences?

  ya know, i didn't think of this one-thank you!  except, coaches are kinda professionals already, as opposed to "students", but i think ya got me there jabs

[MU82]

The demise of amateur athletics?  Good.

Yep. Also, major-college football and basketball hasn't been "amateur" for quite some time.

  just saying...i feel sorry for the coaches

Nope. Contracts and loyalty mean little to most of them.

[WhiteTrash]

You mean the same type of “contract” that allows a coach to jump from one school to another without any consequences?

I think you mean without significant consequences.

Millions of dollars change hands between schools every off season in buyouts.

[MU82]

I think you mean without significant consequences.

Millions of dollars change hands between schools every off season in buyouts.

Zero consequences for the coaches. They preach loyalty and accountability ... and then just bolt for bigger bucks.

[Uncle Rico]

I think you mean without significant consequences.

Millions of dollars change hands between schools every off season in buyouts.

Schools ain’t paying buyouts

[WhiteTrash]

Schools ain’t paying buyouts

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2024/01/18/college-football-coaches-buyouts-schools-200-million/72174164007/

[Uncle Rico]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2024/01/18/college-football-coaches-buyouts-schools-200-million/72174164007/

Who paid Wojo’s buyout?

[WhiteTrash]

Who paid Wojo’s buyout?

I guess we can ask Wojo to post a picture of the check?

[rocket surgeon]

Who paid Wojo’s buyout?

i think that was part of weekend at bernies student debt smokes for votes

[Uncle Rico]

I guess we can ask Wojo to post a picture of the check?

It wasn’t Marquette

[Scoop Snoop]

Who paid Wojo’s buyout?

The Vatican. St Jude is the patron saint of hopeless cases, and the Vatican has money set aside in a St Jude fund. It was an easy decision. 

[Uncle Rico]

The Vatican. St Jude is the patron saint of hopeless cases, and the Vatican has money set aside in a St Jude fund. It was an easy decision.

Vatican bought out Jimbo, too

[WhiteTrash]

It wasn’t Marquette

I'm willing to be anything the check was from Marquette.

I understand your point, and I agree with the sentiment. I know boosters pay a lot of the buyouts via donations. I agree with the inequity of how players and coaches are treated. We'll just have to disagree on the facts.

And while I agree that it seems like coaches come and go as they please, the buyouts have prohibited some coaches from leaving or impacted the net compensation at the new school. But the buyouts are mostly a nuisance or simply viewed as a cost of doing business. 

[Uncle Rico]

I'm willing to be anything the check was from Marquette.

I understand your point, and I agree with the sentiment. I know boosters pay a lot of the buyouts via donations. I agree with the inequity of how players and coaches are treated. We'll just have to disagree on the facts.

And while I agree that it seems like coaches come and go as they please, the buyouts have prohibited some coaches from leaving or impacted the net compensation at the new school. But the buyouts are mostly a nuisance or simply viewed as a cost of doing business.

lol

[Tyler COLEk]

I'm willing to be anything the check was from Marquette.

Sorry, what? Perhaps if you mean, in an abstract sense, some people who provide funds to the university also bought out Wojo. But that seems like a generous interpretation “university.” MU certainly did not buy out Wojo.

[Jables1604]

And while I agree that it seems like coaches come and go as they please, the buyouts have prohibited some coaches from leaving or impacted the net compensation at the new school.

Care to provide one single example to back this up?

[MochaJoe]

Sorry, what? Perhaps if you mean, in an abstract sense, some people who provide funds to the university also bought out Wojo. But that seems like a generous interpretation “university.” MU certainly did not buy out Wojo.

Buyout came from a guy with a last name that rhymes with Richels

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

In part.

[WhiteTrash]

Sorry, what? Perhaps if you mean, in an abstract sense, some people who provide funds to the university also bought out Wojo. But that seems like a generous interpretation “university.” MU certainly did not buy out Wojo.

Sorry, what? Are you saying MU did not satisfy its contractual obligation to Wojo? Or are you saying Wojo resigned and MU had no financial obligation to Wojo? I'm very confused.

My understanding is Wojo was fired and all or some of the money MU needed to satisfy its contractual obligation to Wojo was donated to the athletic department.

If MU didn't stoke Wojo a check then they still owe Wojo. Right?

[cheebs09]

Sorry, what? Are you saying MU did not satisfy its contractual obligation to Wojo? Or are you saying Wojo resigned and MU had no financial obligation to Wojo? I'm very confused.

My understanding is Wojo was fired and all or some of the money MU needed to satisfy its contractual obligation to Wojo was donated to the athletic department.

If MU didn't stoke Wojo a check then they still owe Wojo. Right?

I think it's just semantics. The boosters paid for it through large donations to the B&G fund (or something similar), and then MU paid the buyout from those donations.

So, it's not like it came out of MU's operating budget, but they technically were the ones to directly pay Wojo.

[Uncle Rico]

I think it's just semantics. The boosters paid for it through large donations to the B&G fund (or something similar), and then MU paid the buyout from those donations.

So, it's not like it came out of MU's operating budget, but they technically were the ones to directly pay Wojo.

He doesn’t like NIL and thinks coaches having freedom to leave when they want is different because it costs the universities which isn’t true

[Dr. Blackheart]

Sorry, what? Are you saying MU did not satisfy its contractual obligation to Wojo? Or are you saying Wojo resigned and MU had no financial obligation to Wojo? I'm very confused.

My understanding is Wojo was fired and all or some of the money MU needed to satisfy its contractual obligation to Wojo was donated to the athletic department.

If MU didn't stoke Wojo a check then they still owe Wojo. Right?

$9.2 million total buy-out plus deferred/owed compensation

https://www.marquette.edu/financeoffice/documents/MU990FY22TY2021_PUBLIC.pdf

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

There is a cost to MU even if donors provided 100% of the funds to buy out Wojo.  Charitable donations aren't infinite assets. The money that came in to buy-out Wojo, would have likely come in to fund something else that was a priority for the University.  Had Wojo not needed a buy out, do you think the donors in question would not have supported the institution in some other manner?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

There is a cost to MU even if donors provided 100% of the funds to buy out Wojo.  Charitable donations aren't infinite assets. The money that came in to buy-out Wojo, would have likely come in to fund something else that was a priority for the University.  Had Wojo not needed a buy out, do you think the donors in question would not have supported the institution in some other manner?

If a tree fell in the woods….


You could easily argue that firing Wojo brought more donors back than they lost in paying him to become a yoga master and terribly boring studio analyst. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If a tree fell in the woods….


You could easily argue that firing Wojo brought more donors back than they lost in paying him to become a yoga master and terribly boring studio analyst. 

Could be.

[WhiteTrash]

Care to provide one single example to back this up?

It is very hard to prove this because schools don't announce they did hire a coach because the buyout was too much.

The evidence that buyouts are material factors in limiting coaching changes is that virtually all contracts include them. Unless your position is that these schools and lawyer are idiots that press for buyouts, and coaches and agents are idiots for fighting against them, then the fact that they are there is all the evidence needed. 

[79Warrior]

$9.2 million total buy-out plus deferred/owed compensation

https://www.marquette.edu/financeoffice/documents/MU990FY22TY2021_PUBLIC.pdf

I wonder if he was paid out over time in a lump sum? Taxes would have been brutal on the lump sum.

[Uncle Rico]

It is very hard to prove this because schools don't announce they did hire a coach because the buyout was too much.

The evidence that buyouts are material factors in limiting coaching changes is that virtually all contracts include them. Unless your position is that these schools and lawyer are idiots that press for buyouts, and coaches and agents are idiots for fighting against them, then the fact that they are there is all the evidence needed.

lol

[Jables1604]

It is very hard to prove this because schools don't announce they did hire a coach because the buyout was too much.

The evidence that buyouts are material factors in limiting coaching changes is that virtually all contracts include them. Unless your position is that these schools and lawyer are idiots that press for buyouts, and coaches and agents are idiots for fighting against them, then the fact that they are there is all the evidence needed.

Just take the L.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I wonder if he was paid out over time in a lump sum? Taxes would have been brutal on the lump sum.

Page 52 of the form. Paid over time.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Care to provide one single example to back this up?

Supposedly UCLA refused to pay Jamie Dixons high buyout and ended up with Cronin instead.  No idea if true.

But overall youre right,  buyouts don't meaningfully penalize coaches for jumping ship early

[MU82]

Supposedly UCLA refused to pay Jamie Dixons high buyout and ended up with Cronin instead.  No idea if true.

But overall youre right,  buyouts don't meaningfully penalize coaches for jumping ship early

Yeah, that's the only one I remember. I believe there was a case involving Rick Barnes, too, but it ended up not being an issue after all.

By and large, all buyouts do is bring a little gelt to the school that was jilted. Which ain't nuthin'.

[WhiteTrash]

Supposedly UCLA refused to pay Jamie Dixons high buyout and ended up with Cronin instead.  No idea if true.

But overall youre right, buyouts don't meaningfully penalize coaches for jumping ship early

I agree with this.

[Uncle Rico]

I agree with this.

Yup, plenty of money left over to pay athletes their worth

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Spoke with a friend who is a big UConn supporter and travels with the team. Last year he was at Fiserv and this year Creighton, St. John's and Providence. At St. John's he told me that Pitino came on the Jumbotron twice with pitches for two different NILs and that the AD made one  as well . Providence had a NIL infomercial on theirs also. He remarked that he saw no such thing at MU or Creighton. The Huskies are in the bidding for a women's team recruit who has been offered $500k from South Carolina according to him. 
He is at the tournament and was very impressed by the MU win last night and thinks both teams have some challenges today.

[JTJ3]

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1769892711136391437?t=8I9pPWFrwp9gLuarpqg-og&s=19

Based on this tweet from Goodman, Marquette is over $2mil in NIL this year.  Very impressive, thats going to rank very high nationally.  Certainly makes it easier to keep kids here to develop under Shaka for four years, plus keep kids an extra year before going through the draft like Oso this year and hopefully Kam next year.

[GoldenEagles03]

https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1769892711136391437?t=8I9pPWFrwp9gLuarpqg-og&s=19

Based on this tweet from Goodman, Marquette is over $2mil in NIL this year.  Very impressive, thats going to rank very high nationally.  Certainly makes it easier to keep kids here to develop under Shaka for four years, plus keep kids an extra year before going through the draft like Oso this year and hopefully Kam next year.

If you divide that equally amongst the 13 scholarship spots...that is just under $154,000 per player. Incredible!

And Marquette doesn't have 13 on scholarship. Who knows if they are paid equally...I thought I recall Shaka saying they are, but not sure.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That’s the minimum they are paid just from the collective. They all may make more elesewhere.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I just got this email from UConn (I’ve bought tickets so on the mailing list). NIL is coming for scoop!

UConn's NIL Collective, Bleeding Blue for Good, has launched an all-new fan site, Storrs Central. Subscribers will gain unprecedented, behind-the-scenes access to UConn Athletics. The premium subscription to the site will be $9.99/month or $99/year.

This trailblazing NIL initiative aims to unite UConn fans from all over the country under one banner. Storrs Central subscribers will receive access to the most complete coverage of UConn Men's Basketball, Women's Basketball, and Football, as well as access to the exclusive "Better Get Us Now" message board.

100% of profit from the site will be used to directly support UConn student-athletes and the UConn NIL effort.

[Jay Bee]

That’s the minimum they are paid just from the collective. They all may make more elesewhere.

No. It’s just a number someone told Goodman

[Dr. Blackheart]

If you divide that equally amongst the 13 scholarship spots...that is just under $154,000 per player. Incredible!

And Marquette doesn't have 13 on scholarship. Who knows if they are paid equally...I thought I recall Shaka saying they are, but not sure.

The collective NIL doesn't all go to MUMBB student athletes.

[79Warrior]

If you divide that equally amongst the 13 scholarship spots...that is just under $154,000 per player. Incredible!

And Marquette doesn't have 13 on scholarship. Who knows if they are paid equally...I thought I recall Shaka saying they are, but not sure.

What about the women's team? My understanding is they participate also.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What about the women's team? My understanding is they participate also.

Correct

[muwarrior69]

What about the women's team? My understanding is they participate also.

They get 78 cents to the dollar.