US Economy thread

[rocky_warrior]

On average, the financial demographic of Scoopers (most MU graduates) grades well above any US averages.

[Skatastrophy]

On average, the financial demographic of Scoopers (most MU graduates) grades well above any US averages.

Yep I'm completely out of touch, honestly. At this point I should run for office and tell people how good they have it.

[tower912]

BM

I think your post was the best one today. You provided real life examples. Like you said, you are fine and comfortable, but that does not mean there cannot be a bit concern or frustration. Every time I read about the economy on scoop, I am floored. This group has to be the most successful, financially secure group in the USA.

I look back to when we were raising our family and I now appreciate having some financial stress regarding living expenses. I am glad that no scoopers raising a family have monthly concerns, but I am glad I did. It made me keep my eye on the ball and made me appreciate the smaller joys in life.

Goose, I have mentioned some of the travails I went through early in my marriage and during the great recession.   I managed my money and my family.   I paid off the house,  the cars, and the student loans.   I have subsidized my MIL and BIL to the tune of 50k over the years.   I am still paying for Catholic schools and will soon pay for college.   I am not blind to the challenges out there.   My point is that there has alway been challenges.   I expect and accept them.   I do not understand why you are pretending they are new and unique. 
    What was the unemployment rate when you left college?  What was the interest rate on your first mortgage?  How big was your first full-time paycheck?  How long did it take for you to feel somewhat secure?  Fully secure?   Your pessimism cost you money recently.
   

[Hards Alumni]

I think it factors greatly.  However those that own homes and have 401k's are always going to feel better.  And over a long period of time those two things will always appreciate.

If you want to convince me that we've gutted the middle class and it's harder to live off a basic middle class salary, I would totally agree.  But no politician is offering a solution.

Government could incentivize new home building and new apartment building... and what could really help is new condo building.

[MU82]

Today's conversation in this thread has been mostly respectful and very interesting, and I thank everybody involved in those posts.

BM1090 - I definitely get where you're coming from. When we lived in Chicago with our two growing kids, after all the monthly and other expenses were factored in, we had very little left over for anything. It's not a great feeling, and I hope everything turns out OK for you over time. It was eye-opening hearing a first-person account like yours, so thanks.

dgies - You underscored one of the realities of homeownership - buying, owning and maintaining a house can be quite expensive, and in the end, a house often ends up as having been merely a place to live and not a great investment. Now, many houses indeed CAN be great investments, but a lot of that often depends on location, timing and even a bit of luck.

tower - That was an outstanding post. I doubt there are many here who didn't struggle at one time or another. And I doubt there are many here who didn't eventually "find a way," as you put it. For those who weren't born into money or who didn't marry into money or who weren't at least a little lucky, there always have been ups and downs and poor decisions and great triumphs. That's life. It's not always fair, but it still beats the alternative!

[tower912]

I think the biggest issue is a labor shortage with Boomers retiring (accelerated by the pandemic) and not enough GenZers filling in the other end of the pipeline.

True.  I have had 4 different people reach out to me this spring wanting to know if I wanted to rejoin the workforce on a part time basis.

[rocky_warrior]

True.  I have had 4 different people reach out to me this spring wanting to know if I wanted to rejoin the workforce on a part time basis.

I assume you said "No thanks, I'm too busy creating content for MUScoop"!

[TSmith34, Inc.]

To state the obvious - people are stupid.

And the right-wing lie machine is incredibly powerful. They've honed it to perfection over the last 30 years. Turn on Maria Bartiromo's screechfest any time to get a flavor; listen to any Trump speech; check out any of the thousands of doomsaying podcasts.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I assume you said "No thanks, I'm too busy creating content for MUScoop"!

Worth every dime you are paying him!

[tower912]

I assume you said "No thanks, I'm too busy creating content for MUScoop"!

My kid is very active. All of the high school bands, high school theater, baseball.   I promised myself and him I would never miss a game or performance after I retired, and I haven't.  I have spent many hours building sets and lugging  band equipment.  When he goes to college, I may say yes.

And thanks for the residuals on my content.   I can afford that new can of diet Pepsi I have had my eye on.

[Goose]

tower

For the record, my pessimism saved a good deal of money in 2022 and cost me money in 2023. When all was said and done, I probably was +/- 3-4% of how I would have fared of just leaving things alone. Felt pretty smart in 2022 and pretty stupid in 2023. Another for the record, there have been many, many times in my life that I have been margined to the last penny believing in the economy and the market. 

[MU82]

Here's a not-good economic sign from the Washington Post's weekly economic e-newsletter:

The pandemic sent people home, and less spending meant lower credit card balances.

But those historic lows are giving way to a concerning trend: A growing number of Americans are maxed out on credit cards, with Gen Z leading the way, according to a new report from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

Almost 9 percent of credit card balances became delinquent in the first quarter of this year.

People miss payments for any number of reasons — forgetfulness, cash flow issues or a loss of income — but one factor that is strongly correlated with future delinquencies is a high credit utilization rate, the New York Fed said. This speaks to the percentage of available credit tied up in outstanding balances, according to Experian. The amounts owed represent 30 percent of your credit score.

Borrowers who were current on all their cards in the first quarter of 2024 had a median utilization rate of 13 percent in the previous quarter. But those who became newly delinquent had a median rate of 90 percent, which the New York Fed refers to as being maxed out.

Generation Z, those born from 1995 to 2011, were reported to have maxed out at 15.3 percent, compared with 12.1 percent for millennials, 9.6 percent for Gen X and 4.8 percent for baby boomers.

“This makes sense, since using practically all of your available credit could indicate a tight cash-flow situation,” the New York Fed wrote.

[tower912]

Goose, I am glad it was minor.  And I completely believe you have been near the edge.   You are not alone.   I also hear you tacitly admitting this isn't new.

[BM1090]

Goose, I have mentioned some of the travails I went through early in my marriage and during the great recession.   I managed my money and my family.   I paid off the house,  the cars, and the student loans.   I have subsidized my MIL and BIL to the tune of 50k over the years.   I am still paying for Catholic schools and will soon pay for college.   I am not blind to the challenges out there.   My point is that there has alway been challenges.   I expect and accept them.   I do not understand why you are pretending they are new and unique. 
    What was the unemployment rate when you left college?  What was the interest rate on your first mortgage?  How big was your first full-time paycheck?  How long did it take for you to feel somewhat secure?  Fully secure?   Your pessimism cost you money recently.
 

There are definitely new and unique challenges. There have always been challenges. There will always be challenges. Those challenges will be different over time. It's our responsibility as a species to adapt to those challenges.

I think that for most "younger" people, a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that we were taught to do things a certain way financially. A lot of us did those things, made mostly good choices, and we're not really being rewarded for those things to nearly the same extent as past generations. And that's fine. Things change, we learn new information and better methods of living. It's our responsibility to adapt. However, when we bring this up in most forums, we're told that we're wrong. Most people are unwilling to have a conversation about the root of the problems and legitimate, feasible changes we could make to better life for the vast majority of citizens.

My concerns are less about myself. I hopefully have 50-60 years left and I don't plan on having kids. Even if the rises in rent/overall cost of living continue to far outpace salary increases (rent increases have outpaced income gains by 325% in the last 40 years), I doubt I'll ever truly struggle. I will live a less luxurious life with less hobbies and less travel than I'd hoped and expected, but ultimately, it is what it is. I'll never be hungry at my current salary.

My frustrations and concerns mostly stem from the fact that we, as a country, continue to operate as if the US will be just fine moving forward if we continue with the status quo. Meanwhile, it is becoming harder and harder for younger generations to build wealth. And neither political party is doing anything to address the problem. And there are no signs that they ever will.

I'm not going to pretend I have all the answers. I don't. But a general acceptance of the issues we're facing and an open dialogue among our "leaders" would be a start, and for the most part as a society we can't even accomplish that.

I don't venture into these topics often so if anything above is too political, I will remove it.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

On average, the financial demographic of Scoopers (most MU graduates) grades well above any US averages.

How concerned should we be that you have deep insight into each and every Scoopers personal finances?

[jesmu84]

Hell of a post, BM

[rocky_warrior]

How concerned should we be that you have deep insight into each and every Scoopers personal finances?

We should discuss your last amazon order.  Not very well thought out, eh?

[tower912]

I hear you.   My generation was also told to do things how our parents did.   It failed for us, too. (It must be true if both Billy Joel and Springsteen wrote songs about it) Ergo, we went through our underemployed out of college phase.   'Slacker' was coined to describe us.
   Yes, the price of college and housing has outstripped inflation and wage increases.  Yes, there are no easy solutions.  If there were, someone would have done them.
   There is a generational aspect to the systemic problems and the politics.   I hope, and I mean this with every fiber of my being, that your generation does a better job of looking those problems in the eye and working on solutions, than have the boomers and the older Xers.

[Hards Alumni]

There are definitely new and unique challenges. There have always been challenges. There will always be challenges. Those challenges will be different over time. It's our responsibility as a species to adapt to those challenges.

I think that for most "younger" people, a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that we were taught to do things a certain way financially. A lot of us did those things, made mostly good choices, and we're not really being rewarded for those things to nearly the same extent as past generations. And that's fine. Things change, we learn new information and better methods of living. It's our responsibility to adapt. However, when we bring this up in most forums, we're told that we're wrong. Most people are unwilling to have a conversation about the root of the problems and legitimate, feasible changes we could make to better life for the vast majority of citizens.

My concerns are less about myself. I hopefully have 50-60 years left and I don't plan on having kids. Even if the rises in rent/overall cost of living continue to far outpace salary increases (rent increases have outpaced income gains by 325% in the last 40 years), I doubt I'll ever truly struggle. I will live a less luxurious life with less hobbies and less travel than I'd hoped and expected, but ultimately, it is what it is. I'll never be hungry at my current salary.

My frustrations and concerns mostly stem from the fact that we, as a country, continue to operate as if the US will be just fine moving forward if we continue with the status quo. Meanwhile, it is becoming harder and harder for younger generations to build wealth. And neither political party is doing anything to address the problem. And there are no signs that they ever will.

I'm not going to pretend I have all the answers. I don't. But a general acceptance of the issues we're facing and an open dialogue among our "leaders" would be a start, and for the most part as a society we can't even accomplish that.

I don't venture into these topics often so if anything above is too political, I will remove it.

Nothing political about it.  It is the absolute truth for most millennials, and you've summarized it very well.

[Skatastrophy]

I don't venture into these topics often so if anything above is too political, I will remove it.

The unnatural carnal knowledge is this. We're never going to get the thread locked at this rate.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

There are definitely new and unique challenges. There have always been challenges. There will always be challenges. Those challenges will be different over time. It's our responsibility as a species to adapt to those challenges.

I think that for most "younger" people, a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that we were taught to do things a certain way financially. A lot of us did those things, made mostly good choices, and we're not really being rewarded for those things to nearly the same extent as past generations. And that's fine. Things change, we learn new information and better methods of living. It's our responsibility to adapt. However, when we bring this up in most forums, we're told that we're wrong. Most people are unwilling to have a conversation about the root of the problems and legitimate, feasible changes we could make to better life for the vast majority of citizens.

My concerns are less about myself. I hopefully have 50-60 years left and I don't plan on having kids. Even if the rises in rent/overall cost of living continue to far outpace salary increases (rent increases have outpaced income gains by 325% in the last 40 years), I doubt I'll ever truly struggle. I will live a less luxurious life with less hobbies and less travel than I'd hoped and expected, but ultimately, it is what it is. I'll never be hungry at my current salary.

My frustrations and concerns mostly stem from the fact that we, as a country, continue to operate as if the US will be just fine moving forward if we continue with the status quo. Meanwhile, it is becoming harder and harder for younger generations to build wealth. And neither political party is doing anything to address the problem. And there are no signs that they ever will.

I'm not going to pretend I have all the answers. I don't. But a general acceptance of the issues we're facing and an open dialogue among our "leaders" would be a start, and for the most part as a society we can't even accomplish that.

I don't venture into these topics often so if anything above is too political, I will remove it.

I think most of your post is spot on, but I am not really understanding how previous generations were "rewarded" differently. What rewards do you believe that previous generations were receiving that yours is not?

[Goose]

BM is the post poster on the thread today. Good work!!

[Hards Alumni]

I think most of your post is spot on, but I am not really understanding how previous generations were "rewarded" differently. What rewards do you believe that previous generations were receiving that yours is not?

??????????

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

??????????

So you can't answer the question? Maybe I'm not understanding the term "rewards" in the context in which he is using it.

[Goose]

Fluff

Don't you think we had better leaders on both sides when we were young? Both parties have embarrassed themselves and let down all of us, imo. I believe that our leaders have caused an extreme level of harm over the past 20+ years by their lack of ability to lead.

I get bashed, or outed on here, for being a doomsday economy guy and I am fine with that. I think the core of that belief stems from the Great Recession. Virtually every credible economist stated we are just kicking the can down the street and we have never stopped. Our leaders have kicked that can around the globe a dozen times and their legs still aren't tired.

IMO, our kids deserve better leadership than they are getting. I would go as far to say that if the D's had the courage to run a credible candidate I would consider that candidate. It makes disappointed because the D's actually have a chance to lead and do not have the courage to do it. Kind of reminds of the R's that are afraid of Trump. Both parties are SOFT.