Ben Gold’s shot

[Goose]

Viper

First, it is not uncommon that guys that are simply good college players become good to very good pro players. As for Gold, my take is simply based off of what basketball a long time. Being 6-11 is an immediate positive, coupled with I believe will be an elite shooter for a big man and that translates well at the next level.

IMO, it is far harder for a good to very good 6-6 and under guy to crack an NBA roster simply due to numbers. Gold appears to be a better than average athlete, good handle, appears to have a good feel for the game and that is encouraging to me.

In addition, my gut tells me that he has learned a great deal watching Oso and probably is not playing a role that showcases his real basketball skills. IMO, if Gold continues to get minutes and plays well we may see more of those skills moving forward. And again, he is 6-11 and has the look of being an elite shooting big man.

To be honest, I hope it takes Gold two more years to earn an NBA spot because I think he will end up being a very good college player. That said, the NBA is a business and I think they come calling for him after next season.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. B

The team, but thoughts on Gold would be appreciated as well.

I'll put my Gold take here to be on topic and keep thread sprawl down.

Gold is not a 5, he is a 4/3. It's no mistake that he's had his best two games playing with Oso and Jop on the floor at the same time (as have they).  Can he play the 5 in a five out? Yes but he is exposed on D and MU should switch 1-4 when he is the only one out there (otherwise I get a Theo or Luke vibe on a PG).

On offense, his mechanics are finally getting more consistent and he is doing damage. Teams pay attention to him on the perimeter. If he makes it in the NBA it will be by making consistent threes like Steve and Sam. Unique size and ability

[MU82]

I have no idea if Gold will be an NBA player or even a very good college player. I hope he will excel for Marquette for another year or two after this one, and I'm encouraged by what he's done in the extra minutes he's been asked to play due to others' injuries, but we obviously don't "know" what kind of player Ben Gold will become yet. If he can show NBA types that he can consistently hit the NBA 3, he will have a chance at a nice career there - just as Sam has done. If he can't, he probably can't play at that level unless he improves markedly at several other facets.

If there was one Scooper who watched Oso as a sophomore and said, "This guy is gonna be the best big man in the Big East as a senior, and then a likely first-round draft pick," I would ask that Scooper to please provide a link to that comment. And I will invite that Scooper to change his or her screen name to Scoop's All-Time Knower of Ball.

There were some pretty bad takes about Gold on this board - and about Stevie too, for that matter. I get that fans are impatient and often irrational, but jeesh.

[tower912]

Viper, I watched Ellenson struggle with athletic G-league forwards, so I understand your skepticism there.   However, who would have thought two years ago when Oso was backing up Kur that he would become the current version of himself.    Patience.   Trust the process.

[Herman Cain]

[Viper]

Viper, I watched Ellenson struggle with athletic G-league forwards, so I understand your skepticism there.   However, who would have thought two years ago when Oso was backing up Kur that he would become the current version of himself.    Patience.   Trust the process.

you are correct. Where Oso was, and now is, awesome.

[MUfan12]

Sam ended up being a passable defender because he could read the game well. Had very good instincts. I'm starting to see that happen with Ben. He's recognizing what's happening a step faster than he did at the beginning of the year. Last year, he doesn't get to that block that ended up with Jop's and one.

The game is slowing down for him and it's happening at a really good time for MU. Next step is to get him some easy ones off of some cuts now that they have to guard him out to the line.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Gold is not a 5, he is a 4/3. It's no mistake that he's had his best two games playing with Oso and Jop on the floor at the same time (as have they).  Can he play the 5 in a five out? Yes but he is exposed on D and MU should switch 1-4 when he is the only one out there (otherwise I get a Theo or Luke vibe on a PG).

This.

Watching Ben guard the ball at the top of the key while Sean was pinned down in the paint on a guy twice his height was no bueno.

[brewcity77]

The play where Gold guarded on the perimeter, got his guy to give it up, then suddenly flashed back inside to get the deflection that caused a turnover on the other side of the court was really impressive. I haven't gone back and rewatched it, but the heads up nature, quickness, and use of length on that play looked very good live.

[Newsdreams]

Ben Ponce Gold. Stepped up in the starter's role and played his best game. He was awesome today.

As smooth and good as Ponce Gold, hey

[Goose]

Dr. B

I have always been confused when folks are talking about Gold being a 5. If he ends playing at the next level, it will likely be a 3 or a 4. The comp of Novak and Sam are solid, but I think he is more rounded as a player and definitely bigger, both in height and frame.

[DoctorV]

Some good takes here.
It's apparent that Ben has the size and fundamentals to fit the mold of an elite sharpshooting big at the next level.
I also agree that he has a good feel and read for the game, with a ton of room to grow.

One problem though.

If we are comparing him to the likes of Novak and Sam we have to point out that those guys were ELITE shooters, some of the best in Marquette history, and that's essentially where their opportunity came from.
ELITE outside shooters that have the size and intelligence level to make the other stuff work as best as they could.

Benny is nowhere in the stratosphere of Novak and Sam with regards to shooting.
I'm too lazy to look up the data, but anyone that watched them play, which we all have, knows that Novak was probably the best 3P shooter in Marquette hx (hello Markus?) and Sam Hauser was darn near close to that level.

In our recent hx we had ELITE 3P shooters in Sam, Markus, and Rowsey.

In this current crop, even our "good to great" 3P shooters are nowhere near that.
I mean Kam and Jop are considered great 3P shooters on this team and Kameron is a career 35% 3P shooter.
Joplin is the best 3P shooter of this current crop of MU players and he's not even in the Sam/Markus/Rowsey/Novak stratosphere.

This system is much better, and these guys can all shine in it, but that doesn't change their raw abilities.
Can Benny become a 40-45% 3P shooter in the next few years? Sure, maybe. He's shooting over 50% in the last two.

Can he become Markus, Sam, or Steve good from the outside? Id say no chance.
Those guys were ELITE and it was always obvious.
So, because of that, I think Benny will need to continue to improve defensively and in all other aspects of his game to be useful and needed next level. Tap that sneaky athleticism and good game IQ

[Goose]

Doctor

Solid points. Only comment, I think there is a big difference in being elite at 6-11 vs 6-8 or 6-9. If Ben Gold was 6-8, my excitement level would be muted. Imo, he is big 6-11 guy with additional skills, hence my excitement. Plus, to the best of memory, Gold never needs to dribble or adjust for his shot, it is catch and shoot. Perfect for MU style of play.

I loved both Sam and Novak, but they were more one dimensional. Mind you, Steve Novak was an elite shooter for any sized guy and that made him a ton of money.

[DoctorV]

Doctor

Solid points. Only comment, I think there is a big difference in being elite at 6-11 vs 6-8 or 6-9. If Ben Gold was 6-8, my excitement level would be muted. Imo, he is big 6-11 guy with additional skills, hence my excitement. Plus, to the best of memory, Gold never needs to dribble or adjust for his shot, it is catch and shoot. Perfect for MU style of play.

I loved both Sam and Novak, but they were more one dimensional. Mind you, Steve Novak was an elite shooter for any sized guy and that made him a ton of money.

Yea, great distinction. The extra size makes a big difference.

The part about catching and shooting and him being perfect for MUs style of play is spot on.
He's gotten more open looks from 3 than anyone on the team.

That said, because of that even if he starts canning them at a 45% clip it might be a bit of "fools Gold" with regards to the next level because a lot of bigs at that level are super athletic and in your face, even from 3, ala Oso when he's defending on the perimeter.
So, you've got to be able to create your own shot from 3.

Fwiw I think Ben has the ability to do that at this level and I want to see him start. Someone already mentioned he's got the head fake drive to the hoop in him, and we've seen that. Once he does that a few times then he will be able to head fake/blow by or head fake dribble into an open 3.
Not sure if he will be able to do that at the next level but I hope we get to find out.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Doctor

Solid points. Only comment, I think there is a big difference in being elite at 6-11 vs 6-8 or 6-9. If Ben Gold was 6-8, my excitement level would be muted. Imo, he is big 6-11 guy with additional skills, hence my excitement. Plus, to the best of memory, Gold never needs to dribble or adjust for his shot, it is catch and shoot. Perfect for MU style of play.

I loved both Sam and Novak, but they were more one dimensional. Mind you, Steve Novak was an elite shooter for any sized guy and that made him a ton of money.

Agree. If Benny is on, opponents will have a major matchup disadvantage. Is he elite yet, Doc V? Obviously not but once he gets consistent mechanics, he'll be a handful and can be more multi-dimensional. That said, he ain't a 5 but he has a ceiling that's attractive to the NBA (thus his history with the NBA Academy). Has a ways to go.

[Goose]

Doctor V

Rewatch the ND game from last year and see his head fake, followed by a thunderous dunk. It was that move that caught my attention. The few times he has gone to the hole he has done it with authority.

Not sure if I agree on not getting open looks in the NBA. Brooks Lopez is not much of an athlete and fires a lot open 3's on a nightly basis.

[MU82]

DocV - some very good points there about the comparison between Novak/Hauser and Gold. The first two were elite shooters right out of the gate. Freshman Novak was a major reason we advanced to the '03 Sweet 16. Freshman Sam shot .453 from 3.

But guys develop at different rates. Gold already has improved significantly as an all-around player, and he has had some excellent shooting streaks. Be patient!

[MU82]

The play where Gold guarded on the perimeter, got his guy to give it up, then suddenly flashed back inside to get the deflection that caused a turnover on the other side of the court was really impressive. I haven't gone back and rewatched it, but the heads up nature, quickness, and use of length on that play looked very good live.

Yes! That play actually was the subject of the text-chain I was on during the game. Another guy and I were raving about it! Hell of a play. You can't do that if you're not a decent athlete with a plus hoops IQ.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Dr. B

I have always been confused when folks are talking about Gold being a 5. If he ends playing at the next level, it will likely be a 3 or a 4. The comp of Novak and Sam are solid, but I think he is more rounded as a player and definitely bigger, both in height and frame.

I can only speak for myself, but when I say Gold can play the 5, I am referring to the context of the MU roster.  Oso starts at the 5 and Gold is his backup.  They can also play together though.

Honestly, neither Oso nor Gold are prototypical 5s.  Oso's position is "ball handling big" and Gold's is "stretch big."  That's what their NBA positions would be.   Oso will be drafted for sure, while Gold is still a long way off from the NBA, if he even makes it.

But Gold's NBA chances are better than zero.  If he can shoot, defend, and rebound enough he will make it.  That remains to be seen. 

Player comps to Novak and Hauser don't really fit.  Gold is closer to someone like Jon Leuer (Wisconsin) but obviously Gold isn't that good yet.

[Milkshakes]

I just rewatched yesterday's game. I've liked Ben from the start but I really think he is making big leaps right now. He had some great saves yesterday. Agree fast guards are just going to blow by him. Otherwise, he is a smart defender.  I really like when he doubles a guard and then drops back into the lane very smoothly and often disrupting the ball movement.  I agree his shooting from 3 needs to be better. I think it is going to be. Also, he seems to have added muscle even as the season has gone on. If he adds bulk over the summer and improves his shot a bit he could easily make a big jump into his junior year.  My money says he does both.