Greg Gard a better recruiter than Shaka Smart?

[Goose]

I have zero concern on MU having the money needed to compete in NIL.

[Viper]

Ok Equalizer, all fair points.

The two things that jumped out immediately to me during the interview with Jen Lada were that

1- Shaka gave a shout out to his wife and how much he loves her, twice.

2- Shaka made a comment to Marquette Nation about how we win together, and we lose together with class and that the team needs our support in both winning and losing times (paraphrasing)

The first stood out to me because the Butler game was likely one of the hardest moments in Shaka's Marquette career. He's human, he's passionate, and it likely affected him 1000x more than it affected us.
Everyone needs their support system in times like this, and Shaka's wife and daughter I'm certain helped him overcome the heartache.

The second stood out to me because Coach is spot on. He's building a championship and winning culture at Marquette, or trying to.
He's already accomplished a regular season and conference tournament championship, in extreme short order, so he personally gets a heck of a leash.

In that end, he gets the benefit of the doubt in all his program building decisions, including recruiting and how he approaches it, for several years still.
When he spent 2 weeks in a bunker at the Al and showed up with TyKo, Omax etc. as MU transfers we all kind of scratched our heads at first, the coaches did too and predicted 9th, and Shaka was proven brilliant.
I'm sure he was probably slightly surprised it ended up as well as it did, but why wouldn't he run it back with what he has?
I agree with you that he should've used the extra schollie at the very least for depth, but he decided not to and that's ok.
Now he's tasked with figuring out how to win with freshman that he's given limited minutes to up to this point, and we will see how he does.

All of this doesn't mean we can't question his game to game moves, his in game decisions, or the future of the program, because we can. All I'm saying is that he gets a major benefit of the doubt with regards to his overall structuring of the program, his recruiting style, and his vision going forward for quite a while because he's earned it.
It's also ok to be disappointed with the current results and trajectory of this season, and be concerned with the outlook of the next- but that just comes anytime you falter with super high end expectations...

Shaka got us to those high end expectations after all.

The beauty of it is that the next game, and the 15-20 after that, can completely change the narrative in a positive direction yet again.
So let's do that Shaka and Co.
If not, as he said, those guys will need our support in good times or bad.

...I'm surprised that Shaka lifted off the gas on recruiting, or so it seems. Maybe Lowrey and Norman, with anticipated PT, end up as big pieces of a second half of season rebound. But, in this time of parity, DePaul excluded, recruiting is so huge. And let's face it, Shaka probably expected more to this point from Gold off the bench and Jop as a starter. I do feel that tomorrow is a must win if, for no other reason, team confidence. Seems like this season is trending similar to 2022/23 UNC...high ranking early then missing post season entirely (their choice to turn down the NIT).

[tower912]

If Oso and TKo both leave, there is one scholarship open for next season.

[MU82]

If there was ever a season that Shaka should have relaxed his recruiting strategy, this was it. 

We returned nearly everyone from a Big East Championship/2-seed team, and yet none of the recruiting decisions were made with the mindset of adding talent to support an NCAA tournament run.

I liken the situation to a 1st place MLB team in a pennant race at the trade deadline. Such teams frequently trade future prospects to add depth to the current roster because you just don't know when the stars will align again to put you in contention for a championship. 

Shaka did the opposite.  Every recruiting decision Shaka made was for 2025 or beyond:

• 2 Borderline top 100 guys in Lowery & Norman (Neither were RSCI top 100).  I get the attraction of Lowery and Norman, but face it, they're not sure things to play a major role on a championship contender as freshmen. They're going to be great players--in 2025 or 2026. See the career trajectory of Oso Ighadoro.  I think most MU fans would have gladly suffered a rebuilding year next season if we brought in a pair of players the likes of Storr, Oliveri, Bamba, Spencer, or Dingle to solidify the 23-24 roster.
  
• A Project Big: Amadou. I can only imagine that Shaka was thinking about who's going to take Oso's minutes next year and beyond.  But we could have landed a similar player next year.  Meanwhile, we have a guy using a scholarship who is currently seen only 27 minutes this season to date and shows no signs of getting more as we get deeper in the season..
  
• Allow Caedin Hamilton to reclass and immediately redshirt:  No matter how promising Amadou or Hamilton are, their presence on this year's roster does nothing to help take last year's team over the top. They were never going to help us in 2023-24. They may be a solid piece on the 2026 or 2027 roster. Shaka gave up recruiting insurance against injury on this year's team for players who *may* develop into contributors two or three years from now.
  
• Bank a scholarship (otherwise known as a self-imposed penalty). Inexcusable.  Did Shaka really think the returning players were immune to injury?

I get the arguments people will make around not enough minutes, not recruting over current players, etc.   However, if you've spent 3 or 4 years at Penn or Harvard or Rice, you might be willing to take a scholarship with less playing opportunity in exchange for being part of a championship run.

And if the egos of Jop or Stevie or Kam are so fragile that the mere presence of someone who might challenge them for minutes pushes them over the edge, they probably don't have the right mindsent to make a championship run on their own.  No matter what you think about the negatives of being recruited over, our guys coming back knew there was nobody behind them who could concievably challenge their role--and that's could explain why we see so many guys who have plateaued or taken a step back.  Seeing a 3- or 4-year starter from a lower-level program may have given them the motivation to work harder to improve over the summer.

You make some interesting points.

The one I'll push back on is the last one. Unless you have evidence of some guys not working hard in preparation for the season, I'm not buying it.

[Shooter McGavin]

You make some interesting points.

The one I'll push back on is the last one. Unless you have evidence of some guys not working hard in preparation for the season, I'm not buying it.

Competition is always better than none.  NIL unfortunately complicates it.  If that is the factor that prevents portal acquisitions and not simply being recruited over (the old problem) then that is not good moving forward.

I like the point.  In some ways these kids need to be a little on edge with regard to playing time.

[panda]

Not every transfer is seeking out a massive NIL package. Recruiting the portal is no different than high school recruiting a few years ago. Not every good high school recruit had their hand out for under the table cash. Coaches simply need to vet their targets and make sure they're good fits for the program and the team.

[MU82]

Competition is always better than none.  NIL unfortunately complicates it.  If that is the factor that prevents portal acquisitions and not simply being recruited over (the old problem) then that is not good moving forward.

I like the point.  In some ways these kids need to be a little on edge with regard to playing time.

Which Marquette players do you think lacked an edge because they weren't pressured by transfers or recruits?

And was the lack of an edge there from the start of the season? I mean, MU sure looked pretty edgy to me in the first month.

[Shooter McGavin]

Which Marquette players do you think lacked an edge because they weren't pressured by transfers or recruits?

And was the lack of an edge there from the start of the season? I mean, MU sure looked pretty edgy to me in the first month.

82, no particular players.  I think as a rule people can get comfortable in their jobs/roles. Human nature.  The general idea is a sound one.  Whether it is specifically happening to a specific player/s I think you know I can't tell you that.  I'm not close enough to the program.  Your guess would be as good as mine.  Competition is always good on a competitive sports team.  That's the only point.

As for the start of the season, they came out ready to go and have faltered.  Hopefully they don't get demolished today.  If they win it will be a good sign.  Uncle may be right about injury taking its toll.  In which case competition wouldn't have helped their edge but only improved the depth on the team.  Either way, advantageous.

Big one today.  Go MU!

[MU82]

82, no particular players.  I think as a rule people can get comfortable in their jobs/roles. Human nature.  The general idea is a sound one.  Whether it is specifically happening to a specific player/s I think you know I can't tell you that.  I'm not close enough to the program.  Your guess would be as good as mine.  Competition is always good on a competitive sports team.  That's the only point.

As for the start of the season, they came out ready to go and have faltered.  Hopefully they don't get demolished today.  If they win it will be a good sign.  Uncle may be right about injury taking its toll.  In which case competition wouldn't have helped their edge but only improved the depth on the team.  Either way, advantageous.

Big one today.  Go MU!

I'm not gonna disagree with you or Equalizer or anybody else that we could have used a real good player from the transfer portal and/or another quality recruit for depth reasons alone (and also possibly for other reasons).

Without evidence, however, I see no reason to believe that the failure to do so made any of our players feel "too comfortable" or made any of them work less. Those who were around the team this summer and fall said they worked their butts off, and the start to our season seemed to show that they were prepared and motivated to have a great season.

Yes, MU has since "faltered" - a good word to describe it. But until I am presented even a shred of proof, I have serious trouble believing that it happened all of a sudden because they got too comfortable due to nobody challenging them for minutes. That's all I'm saying.

[Shooter McGavin]

I'm not gonna disagree with you or Equalizer or anybody else that we could have used a real good player from the transfer portal and/or another quality recruit for depth reasons alone (and also possibly for other reasons).

Without evidence, however, I see no reason to believe that the failure to do so made any of our players feel "too comfortable" or made any of them work less. Those who were around the team this summer and fall said they worked their butts off, and the start to our season seemed to show that they were prepared and motivated to have a great season.

Yes, MU has since "faltered" - a good word to describe it. But until I am presented even a shred of proof, I have serious trouble believing that it happened all of a sudden because they got too comfortable due to nobody challenging them for minutes. That's all I'm saying.

That's fair 82.  Big one today.  Looking forward to seeing the freshman step up and the big three return to dominance.  Should be fun. 

[MU82]

That's fair 82.  Big one today.  Looking forward to seeing the freshman step up and the big three return to dominance.  Should be fun.

Feels like a crucial game today. Here's hoping our big 3 are at their best, and they get a little help from a role player or two.

We Are Marquette!

[Goose]

82


If MU wants to right the ship, role players have to become consistent players and not just role players. Big opportunity for a few guys to raise their game and fingers crossed today is the start for them.

[MU82]

82


If MU wants to right the ship, role players have to become consistent players and not just role players. Big opportunity for a few guys to raise their game and fingers crossed today is the start for them.

I define "role player" as anybody who isn't a star (or at least an all-conference caliber player). We have only 3 such players, and I doubt that changes before the season's over. A "role player" doesn't mean a guy is inconsistent. Stevie is a consistently good defensive player, but he's still a role player IMHO.

Anyhoo, it's just semantics. You are free to apply whatever classification you want or none at all.

You and I totally agree that MU needs great effort and good performances from multiple players if the ship is to be righted. Might as well start today!

[wisblue]

Al McGuire used to say that "the Queen Mary turns with a bump". He was usually talking about coming back in a game but I think it can also apply to a season.

MU needs a win today in the worst way just to begin the process of getting things back on track. It's not going to be easy against a team that is decidedly better than Butler and has a couple of All Conference caliber players in Dixon and Moore.

I said on another thread that I'm surprised MU is favored by 6 points. If they miss their first 3 or 4 3 point shots I could see things getting ugly real fast.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I have zero concern on MU having the money needed to compete in NIL.

Per a MU source, NIL coop amount for all sports is $1.5 million. Not counting what an individual player can pick up on their own, maybe that leaves a mil or so for men's hoops. Bronny's deal alone is $5.9 million.

[The Sultan]

Per a MU source, NIL coop amount for all sports is $1.5 million. Not counting what an individual player can pick up on their own, maybe that leaves a mil or so for men's hoops. Bronny's deal alone is $5.9 million.

Not sure his is the measuring stick we should be using.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Not sure his is the measuring stick we should be using.

Except that he set the market, especially for transfers.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/candid-coaches-what-nil-price-is-a-projected-high-major-starter-in-the-transfer-looking-portal-looking-for/amp/

[DoctorV]

82


If MU wants to right the ship, role players have to become consistent players and not just role players. Big opportunity for a few guys to raise their game and fingers crossed today is the start for them.

Hopefully the kiwi harvest begins today.
3/4 from 3 on a 11&7 day, we'll take it.

[Shooter McGavin]

Al McGuire used to say that "the Queen Mary turns with a bump". He was usually talking about coming back in a game but I think it can also apply to a season.

MU needs a win today in the worst way just to begin the process of getting things back on track. It's not going to be easy against a team that is decidedly better than Butler and has a couple of All Conference caliber players in Dixon and Moore.

I said on another thread that I'm surprised MU is favored by 6 points. If they miss their first 3 or 4 3 point shots I could see things getting ugly real fast.

Yep.  I hope MU grinds out a 1 point win.  Sometimes that kind of win makes it easier the next game and then the dominos start to fall.  Kind of like a front end free throw that hits ever part of the rim and then falls in.  The next one is nothing but net.  Just get this win anyway.  Big, big game. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

EQ's gripes don't make sense to me.

1. When Norman, Lowery, and Amadou committed, MU was coming off a 9 seed season and being blown out in the 1st round.  That's the situation they were recruited to, not BE double champs.

2. Shaka had an open scholarship after the season when Ellis, Itejere, and Wright transferred.  He kicked the tires on some transfers, but for whatever reason they didn't work out.  Maybe Shaka should have done more, but that has nothing to do with the recruiting cycle that landed Tre, Zaide, and Al.

3.  When O-Max stayed in the draft, that left 2 open scholarships.  Hamilton was added late, well after the height of transfer season.  He was going to do a 5th year at prep school and was being targeted as a 2024 target.  When he was ready to commit,  the staff realized he was academically qualified and they two open spots.  Why not do a redshirt year instead of a prep school year?

EQ, I understand your frustration.  It would have been great to add an O-Max replacement.  But adding the current freshman in no way precluded that.  There's still an open scholarship, afterall.

And realistically, the end of the bench will always be filled with players who aren't ready to be rotation players.  Some will be straight up projects and not all of them will work out.