NFL head coach GOAT

[MU1in77]

Belichick 6 NFL Championships in 29 seasons; Vince Lombardi 5 NFL Championships in 10 seasons. Thoughts?

[WhiteTrash]

1. Lombardi
2. Belichick
3. Halas (6 'Chips)

[wadesworld]

Belichick.

[HutchwasClutch]

Vincent T. Lombardi. I would argue the greatest head coach in any sport.

Belichick was mediocre at best in Cleveland and mediocre to lousy without Brady.  It's not him. Lombardi was never mediocre.  He was going to make Washington great too.

[WhiteTrash]

Vincent T. Lombardi. I would argue the greatest head coach in any sport.

Belichick was mediocre at best in Cleveland and mediocre to lousy without Brady.  It's not him. Lombardi was never mediocre.  He was going to make Washington great too.

He would have except for F-ing Dan Snyder!

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Belichick 6 NFL Championships in 29 seasons; Vince Lombardi 5 NFL Championships in 10 seasons. Thoughts?

16 teams and 4 playoff spots. Talent pool extraordinarily deeper in modern era. I give it to Bill, far more difficult to win one now. If Lombardi made Washington a dynasty maybe that changes my answer.

[Lennys Tap]

1. Lombardi
2. Belichick
3. Halas (6 'Chips)

Others to consider:
Saban
Wooden
Bear Bryant
Shula
K

[WhiteTrash]

Others to consider:
Saban
Wooden
Bear Bryant
Shula
K

Gotta have Phil Jackson in that list.

[Lennys Tap]

Gotta have Phil Jackson in that list.

I didn't notice the NFL in caps right in front of me - my bad

[JWags85]

Belichick was mediocre at best in Cleveland and mediocre to lousy without Brady.  It's not him. Lombardi was never mediocre.  He was going to make Washington great too.

Belichick took over an absolute dumpster fire in Cleveland.  The year before he was hired was the literal worst defense in the NFL in the entire 90s.  And the offense was lead by a broken Kosar who had just had the worst season of his career.  Belichick turned them into a very good playoff team in 4 years.  Entered his final year as a presumptive Super Bowl contender and then Modell dropped a bomb on the franchise and the city and the season imploded.  Looking at BB and Cleveland his last two years, its not hard to see the makings of what then happened in New England.

Plus his staff between the 94 and 95 seasons had 3 future NFL head coaches, plus Nick Saban and Kirk Ferentz, and also Pat Hill who coached Fresno State for 15 years.

[HutchwasClutch]

Lombardi never had a losing season.  The Packers were 1-10-1 when he took over.  The Redskins were 5-9 the year before he arrived.  He had the Packers in the NFL championship two years in and never lost a championship game after that loss to Philly (in Philly).

He produced HOF at such a ridiculous level, it became a voter topic and bias there were too many of his Packers already in. This in an era where head coaches didn't have a small army of assistants and head coaches played a huge role on both sides of the ball and player development. 

Lombardi= GOAT

[HutchwasClutch]

Belichick took over an absolute dumpster fire in Cleveland.  The year before he was hired was the literal worst defense in the NFL in the entire 90s.  And the offense was lead by a broken Kosar who had just had the worst season of his career.  Belichick turned them into a very good playoff team in 4 years.  Entered his final year as a presumptive Super Bowl contender and then Modell dropped a bomb on the franchise and the city and the season imploded.  Looking at BB and Cleveland his last two years, its not hard to see the makings of what then happened in New England.

Plus his staff between the 94 and 95 seasons had 3 future NFL head coaches, plus Nick Saban and Kirk Ferentz, and also Pat Hill who coached Fresno State for 15 years.

He had 4 losing seasons in 5 at Cleveland with a wild card win. It's generous my labeling his body of work there mediocre.  And his coaching tree is a really weak argument.  As great as Saban became it was entirely off his college record. 

[rocket surgeon]

Hutch knows football!  Lombardi was relentless and so many coaches(good ones) modeled their style after him.

He took guys who's 2nd jobs were used car salesmen, bartenders, etc and turned them into winning athletes at highest level at that time. talent pool was all relative.  He'd  do the same today with the 24/7 athlete or they'd be full time used car salesmen and bartenders

[The Sultan]

Lombardi was the best ever.

His downfall was he wasn't a great personnel guy. Look up Jack Vainisi to see who the hero was in that regard.

Lombardi's style would never work today.

[Uncle Rico]

It's Belichick for navigating the salary cap era.

Lombardi is in the discussion, but then so is Paul Brown and Chuck Noll and Tom Landry and Don Shula and Joe Gibbs.

Lombardi had the luxury of roster continuity.  He saw the writing on the wall when he left.

Also, I'd pay top dollar to see Lombardi take used car salesman and try to win football games today

[tower912]

Bill Walsh?

[WhiteTrash]

It's Belichick for navigating the salary cap era.

Lombardi is in the discussion, but then so is Paul Brown and Chuck Noll and Tom Landry and Don Shula and Joe Gibbs.

Lombardi had the luxury of roster continuity.  He saw the writing on the wall when he left.

Also, I'd pay top dollar to see Lombardi take used car salesman and try to win football games today

I agree Belichick was for a long time was the best GM in the game on top of being an all time coach.

If we are including non-coaching duties and contributions, hands down it's Halas for me. There is no NFL without Halas.

[Uncle Rico]

Bill Walsh?

Most influential offensive coach of the modern era.  Cultivated a lineage down to Andy Reid, born from Paul Brown.

In '86, Niners lost Montana in week one.  Navigated the team to a 4-3-1 record with Jeff Kemp and Mike Moroski at QB.  Saved Steve Young.  He's in the discussion.  Wouldn't be my choice but I'd listen

[Uncle Rico]

I agree Belichick was for a long time was the best GM in the game on top of being an all time coach.

If we are including non-coaching duties and contributions, hands down it's Halas for me. There is no NFL without Halas.

His legacy and lineage is long, too.  Definitely can't have the discussion without him

[tower912]

Most influential offensive coach of the modern era.  Cultivated a lineage down to Andy Reid, born from Paul Brown.

In '86, Niners lost Montana in week one.  Navigated the team to a 4-3-1 record with Jeff Kemp and Mike Moroski at QB.  Saved Steve Young.  He's in the discussion.  Wouldn't be my choice but I'd listen

GOAT discussions bore me.   I agree with your assessment about Walsh.  But he belongs in the discussion.

[WhiteTrash]

His legacy and lineage is long, too.  Definitely can't have the discussion without him

He was a complicated man. Still not sure if Ditka loved him or hated him.

He was the hard nosed SOB needed to make the NFL endure and become successful. He started the NFL when there was no interest in professional football.

[Uncle Rico]

GOAT discussions bore me.   I agree with your assessment about Walsh.  But he belongs in the discussion.

Correct about the discussion aspect, especially if someone tells you his or her choice is the only option.  I think it's Belichick in the NFL and Saban in college.  Might be right, might not be.  All subjective

[Uncle Rico]

He was a complicated man. Still not sure if Ditka loved him or hated him.

He was the hard nosed SOB needed to make the NFL endure and become successful. He started the NFL when there was no interest in professional football.

It's interesting how college athletics dominated outside boxing and baseball because of the amateurism aspect in da dey der.

I'll always maintain football's rise at the pro level was as much about gambling as TV.  Probably a combo of both.  And Pete Rozelle

[Jockey]

Lombardi's style would never work today.

Maybe. I think most people would agree with you. But coaching still comes down to relationships. That was Lombardi's strength. He didn't know more X's and O's Than other guys. Parcells is a more modern coach who was Lombardi-ish.

Tomlin also follows in that tradition and certain guys can't play for him, especially wide receivers. But I've never seen a 'tough guy' who wanted out in Pittsburgh because Tomlin was too hard on players.

Anyway, I'd put Shula, Lombardi, and Parcells ahead of Belichick.

[Uncle Rico]

Maybe. I think most people would agree with you. But coaching still comes down to relationships. That was Lombardi's strength. He didn't know more X's and O's Than other guys. Parcells is a more modern coach who was Lombardi-ish.

Tomlin also follows in that tradition and certain guys can't play for him, especially wide receivers. But I've never seen a 'tough guy' who wanted out in Pittsburgh because Tomlin was too hard on players.

Anyway, I'd put Shula, Lombardi, and Parcells ahead of Belichick.

Lombardi's personal skills were excellent.  Very progressive for his times, yet demanding.  Lot more CEO than people realize