If MU loses this game, blame Shaka

[ATWizJr]

I feel that the best coaches have.roles.for their players and use substitutions to keep players fresh and set up not only current line ups, but line ups 4 minutes out.   Keep everybody fresh and involved.   Don't have 5 tired guys on the floor and only 2-3 to bring in.   Try to have your best 5 ready down the stretch.
   Sean stunk his first couple of minutes.  He got better.

I feel that the best coaches don't sabotage their team by taking a hit combination of the floor during a run.

[The Sultan]

I feel that the best coaches don't sabotage their team by taking a hit combination of the floor during a run.

lol. He does the same thing every game.

[ATWizJr]

lol. He does the same thing every game.

inflexible?  Can't adjust?

[Goose]

Do people actually watch the games or just follow online? I cannot believe that after 2+ seasons we are discussing how Shaka subs during the game and how consistent the pattern has been.

[MU82]

There have been a LOT of interesting takes on Scoop the last 8 hours, Goose.

[The Sultan]

inflexible?  Can't adjust?

As had been explained, coaches generally stick with their rotation. Especially since it has worked plenty of times in the past.

This is just Monday morning quarterbacking.

[The Sultan]

Do people actually watch the games or just follow online? I cannot believe that after 2+ seasons we are discussing how Shaka subs during the game and how consistent the pattern has been.

Yep. One bad game, and the announcer mentions something, and the critics come out of the woodwork.

[ATWizJr]

As had been explained, coaches generally stick with their rotation. Especially since it has worked plenty of times in the past.

This is just Monday morning quarterbacking.

ever hear of in game adjustments? 

[MUfan12]

ever hear of in game adjustments?

No coach in their right mind would think they "We're up ten and there's only 33 minutes left, let's go for the kill!"

Just revisionist nonsense.

[The Sultan]

ever hear of in game adjustments? 

🙄🙄🙄

Sure bud. Lobby for the job next time.

No coach in their right mind would think they "We're up ten and there's only 33 minutes left, let's go for the kill!"

Just revisionist nonsense.

Yep.

[ATWizJr]

No coach in their right mind would think they "We're up ten and there's only 33 minutes left, let's go for the kill!"

Just revisionist nonsense.

no coach?  Coaches all the time make in game adjustments. Failure to do so was a major wojo weakness. And I will restate, ya don't fix it if it ain't broke. Doing something because that's the way he always does something is not a rational excuse.

[The Sultan]

no coach?  Coaches all the time make in game adjustments. Failure to do so was a major wojo weakness. And I will restate, ya don't fix it if it ain't broke. Doing something because that's the way he always does something is not a rational excuse.

So your thought is to make no substitutions. In the first half. That's just revisionist nonsense.

[DoctorV]

Do people actually watch the games or just follow online? I cannot believe that after 2+ seasons we are discussing how Shaka subs during the game and how consistent the pattern has been.

I would imagine most on here watch the entire game, and pretty much every game.

I would also guess that most know that Shaka is pretty rigid and structured in his substitution patterns- he usually sends in one or a few reserves at the same time before either the under 16 TO  if there is a poor start, or before the under 12 if the team is playing well.
The logic is clearly to rest the starters using the tv timeout as extra rest.

He usually has a great feel for the game- its part of what makes his an excellent in game coach- he knows whos got the hot hand and how to put them and therefore the team in a position to succeed.

The above doesnt mean that hes impermeable to criticism.

As a Marquette basketball board the point is to discuss what we see and share ideas and thoughts with one another re MUbb.
The point here is that perhaps he shouldn't be so rigid in all games, especially on the road when the team is cooking.

The fact is that MU was on an 8-0 run and getting ready to put SH in a very bad spot very early in the game until the triple sub of Chase/Ben/Sean. Then the wheels sort of fell off, TyKo and Kam weren't quite the same afterwards, SH made like a 25-7ish run, Chase got injured etc etc.

Sure, you could argue that Shaka always does that and that those subs had nothing to do with any of that, it's your or anyone's prerogative.
In the same breath, it's ok to argue that maybe he should have changed it up and gone with the starters the entire 20 minutes in the 1H since they were rolling to try to put the game out of reach.

Also, as TyKo and Kam were clearly playing brutally in the 2H he stuck with them- I get it they are all BE guards- but he then sat Sean AGAIN in a pivotal stretch near the under 4 in the 2H after he provided a massive spark.

Shaka sat him late in the Creighton game after a massive spark but Marquette pulled it off so it didn't matter.
When he did it today they quickly went from down 2 (after another of his sparks got them back tied) to down 10 in a matter of 3/4 mins and then he came back in and the team immediately got back into it.

Again, maybe coincidental, but definitely not unfair to discuss.

[The Sultan]

My discussion: it's nonsense. Especially the idea that "they weren't the same after...."

You really think a first half substitution has anything to do with that? Cmon...

[MUfan12]

MU had the depth advantage prior to Chase's injury. They're up 10, and he could steal a few minutes for the starters.

Less than three game minutes later the starters were all back in. Seems like he adjusted to the second unit struggling.

This is about as dumb as the pages long discussion of Jop's high five to Jae.

[ATWizJr]

MU had the depth advantage prior to Chase's injury. They're up 10, and he could steal a few minutes for the starters.

Less than three game minutes later the starters were all back in. Seems like he adjusted to the second unit struggling.

This is about as dumb as the pages long discussion of Jop's high five to Jae.

Gambled and lost. Simple as that.

[MU82]

So let's get this straight ... if he kept the starters in and, 10 minutes into the game, they were still playing well and we had a 12-point lead, he should still not sub? How about if MU had built a 14-point lead 13 minutes into the game ... would it be OK to sub then?

What's the official Scoop cutoff? Maybe the starters shoulda just played the whole game!

There were many reasons we lost this game. Shaka using some bench players - guys he trusts - 7 minutes into the game to give a few starters a rest ranks pretty darn low on the list to me. But y'all go for it!

[DoctorV]

Scoop has no cutoff, ever.

Sure maybe it was reason #13956 for the loss, somewhere behind Tyler and Kam playing poorly, but again that's not the point.

The discussion isn't about costing the game, it's simply about whether or not those subs shouldn't have happened in the moment. Every moment is unique. I don't often find myself saying "this is a brutal sub by Shaka and it's going to backfire" in the first half but I said it instantly in that moment, spoke it aloud to anyone who would listen, and SH immediately went on a massive run.

So it's probably just that Im upset it came true.
Bigger point is that I'm not so sure his substitution pattern should be so rigid all the time. The first halves this season haven't been a thing of beauty on several occasions, and sometimes we forget that Marquette, despite some really nice wins, has had to come back from plenty large first half deficits.

So, it's ok to analyze what should be done differently in these 1Hs.

My first suggestion is play on with your studs when they are in a good groove.
My second would be don't put in Sean and Ben simultaneously- as someone with a smarter computer and data brain has already shown the math shows negative things when they are on together.
My third would be put in Al Amadou!

Just kidding. And I know the stock response of coach Shaka knows this team better than anyone is coming, but again this type of discussion is what message boards are for, and it's ok to criticize even the most successful.
Everyone always has room to improve.

[1SE]

Yes, if you continue to roll you let the starters play 40 - or until the game is well and truly put away. These are not 45 year olds playing in an old man rec league - these are some of the most conditioned people on the globe - they could play 40 straight minutes without breaks, much less with time outs, half time, etc.

Gold is terrible and SH doesn't have particularly notable size. Oso was having a good game. The "twin towers" line up was a bizzare choice that backfired horribly. Ben should have played 5 minutes, not 13. Chase going down hurts our rotation bigly, but the answer isn't to give his minutes to Ben - its to have the starters each play 37.

I'm a Shak-ya for this season and beyond, but this was a bad game for him.

[CTWarrior]

When I saw this thread topic, I thought it was going to be about the timeout he called with under 6 seconds in the game.  We had the ball in the hands of a guy who may be the best point guard in the history of our program against a scrambling defense, but Shaka called timeout.  Problems with the TO are:

1. No timeouts remaining, which makes the entry pass more difficult because we don't want to go deep into the backcourt for the inbounds (the normal outlet for a throw in from that spot on the floor) which led to the turnover.  On top of that, Kolek was the inbounder so if we throw it deep in the backcourt we have someone other than our quarterback initiating play.
2.  The timeout provided a good chance for SHU to remind their players to foul, up 3.  Even if the pass was successful, they could have just fouled Oso, our best rebounder.
3.   A chance for SHU to sort and assemble their defense to protect against the 3 point shot.
4.  No timeouts remaining so we had no hope for anything but a 60 foot heave after they missed the 1 and 1. (Point 4 is a very minor consideration, I grant you)

[The Sultan]

Yes, if you continue to roll you let the starters play 40 - or until the game is well and truly put away. These are not 45 year olds playing in an old man rec league - these are some of the most conditioned people on the globe - they could play 40 straight minutes without breaks, much less with time outs, half time, etc.

Teal?

[Dr. Blackheart]

End of the day, Shaka becomes a much better coach when the bench steps up. Only Sean has recently.

[tower912]

End of the day, Shaka becomes a much better coach when the bench steps up. Only Sean has recently.

Shaka is a better coach when TKo and Kam step up.    The offense looks better when 3s fall.

[brewcity77]

Shaka is a better coach when TKo and Kam step up.    The offense looks better when 3s fall.

Yesterday we needed at least one of them. TKO had a rare off game, but Kam has been bad for a month now. 25% from 3 in his past 6 games ain't gonna get it done. Defense is also sloppy. Two fouls on threes and that abysmal defensive rebounding stat is pretty glaring. Not to mention the lazy effort on the two runouts. It wouldn't have taken much to turn yesterday into a win, but no one was willing to finish the job in the second half.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Shaka is a better coach when TKo and Kam step up.    The offense looks better when 3s fall.

That is proving not to be sustainable, more so when Big East opponents key on these two. The bench seemingly always gives back points, with a few exceptions. Big Boy Time