Tommies, boy!

[MU82]

I do think this game confirmed why Shaka doesn't play Oso and Gold together all that much - and frankly I'm a little surprised he played them together as much as he did in this one.

Gold has offensive skills, and he's OK defending a player who is built like he is. But he simply cannot stay in front of anybody with any quickness at all, and it affects the entire defense. His man beats him, Oso has to step up, and it leaves an opponent open for a layup or a rebound basket.

By far Gold's best role is subbing in for Oso. He gives us a different look because he can hit 3s, and he's decent at defending opposing bigs as long as they aren't Edey huge.

[MuggsyB]

Gold has to rise to the challenge when it comes to simple help defense/rim protection.  He got burned helping just as much as one on one on the perimeter.  The anticipation has to be better, the focus, the rudimentary understanding if his job, etc, etc.  6'2 guys should not be scoring over him at will 2 feet from the basket.  No one is asking him to stop Giannis or Embiid.  Move your ass over, be a presence, and figure it out ASAP. 

[MU82]

Gold has to rise to the challenge when it comes to simple help defense/rim protection.  He got burned helping just as much as one on one on the perimeter.  The anticipation has to be better, the focus, the rudimentary understanding if his job, etc, etc.  6'2 guys should not be scoring over him at will 2 feet from the basket.  No one is asking him to stop Giannis or Embiid.  Move your ass over, be a presence, and figure it out ASAP.

Shaka and his assistants probably have never worked with Gold on help defense, so I wish Shaka would hire you to help Ben defend properly.

[warriorchick]

Wouldn't have been as close if those old alums with good seats would have cheered louder, or the hot chicks sitting close didn't distract the players. (Feel free to pick either reason.    )

[Shooter McGavin]

Ben Gold played slightly better on defense in the second half.  He was able to stay in front of his man a little better and cut off the angle to the basket. He will improve.  His lateral quickness will improve.  I'm glad he played a lot of minutes.

On offense he still has a slight fadeaway on his jump shot that prevents him from hitting more threes.  Because of it, many are too flat and short.  Wish he would stop doing that and go straight up. At 6'11" he doesn't have to worry about a blocked shot.

He will improve and be a difference maker down the stretch.

[Shooter McGavin]

Very impressed by the Tommies as well.  Very well coached.  Their alums better pony up more money for that coach.  He will be in demand. 

I think this was a good test for our team.  I also think it indicates how good MU is as a team.  The Tommies probably played their best game of the season and could have taken a number of teams down last night.  MU had talent all over the floor that answered all those threes and their high percentage of twos made with big buckets that frankly we've become used to them making.

Must have frustrated the hell out of their coach.  They could not have played any better.  Marquette on the other hand can play a lot better but even on an off night defensively took care of business against a good opponent playing their best.

Definitely positives from this one.  There was one poster who said this seemed like a first round NCAA game against a lesser opponent who played really well (eg Holy Cross in 2003). I agree.  I think they passed a test.  One of many throughout this season.

[Goose]

Shooter

Agree with you across the board. I actually feel last night was a positive for MU, not a bad win. I really hope the Tommies have a great season and the coach makes some dough.

[Herman Cain]

Gold has to rise to the challenge when it comes to simple help defense/rim protection.  He got burned helping just as much as one on one on the perimeter.  The anticipation has to be better, the focus, the rudimentary understanding if his job, etc, etc.  6'2 guys should not be scoring over him at will 2 feet from the basket.  No one is asking him to stop Giannis or Embiid.  Move your ass over, be a presence, and figure it out ASAP.

Hopefully he can channel his inner James Bond.... The Man With The Golden Gun 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEfwQ-S3sdk

[Uncle Rico]

Shooter

Agree with you across the board. I actually feel last night was a positive for MU, not a bad win. I really hope the Tommies have a great season and the coach makes some dough.

There's this narrative other teams playing well or above expectations isn't why Marquette loses or plays bad.  Instead it's Marquette is overrated or just not that good.  It's never that simple.

St. Thomas played free last night and gained confidence as the game went on.  It looked EXACTLY like a 14-3 upset type game we see in March.  These game happen for a combination of reasons and it's never just one reason.

I would not be shocked if St. Thomas wins the Summit and I won't be shocked if St. Thomas gets blown out a few times.  That's what tends to happen to the 14-seed that pulls the upset.  They get blown out because the things that all went right to get that upset, are hard to replicate.

Personally, I've seen Marquette under Crean, under Buzz, under Wojo lose that game.  I'm way more bullish about them after that win.  Things to fix?  Yup.  But it feels better fixing them after a win

[Shooter McGavin]

There's this narrative other teams playing well or above expectations isn't why Marquette loses or plays bad.  Instead it's Marquette is overrated or just not that good.  It's never that simple.

St. Thomas played free last night and gained confidence as the game went on.  It looked EXACTLY like a 14-3 upset type game we see in March.  These game happen for a combination of reasons and it's never just one reason.

I would not be shocked if St. Thomas wins the Summit and I won't be shocked if St. Thomas gets blown out a few times.  That's what tends to happen to the 14-seed that pulls the upset.  They get blown out because the things that all went right to get that upset, are hard to replicate.

Personally, I've seen Marquette under Crean, under Buzz, under Wojo lose that game.  I'm way more bullish about them after that win.  Things to fix?  Yup.  But it feels better fixing them after a win

Agree with you and Goose

[pbiflyer]

Fair point!

Ben Gold played slightly better on defense in the second half.  He was able to stay in front of his man a little better and cut off the angle to the basket. He will improve.  His lateral quickness will improve.  I'm glad he played a lot of minutes.

On offense he still has a slight fadeaway on his jump shot that prevents him from hitting more threes.  Because of it, many are too flat and short.  Wish he would stop doing that and go straight up. At 6'11" he doesn't have to worry about a blocked shot.

He will improve and be a difference maker down the stretch.

I noticed that when he doesn't have time to gather for a shot, it seems smoother. But when he has time to think about it, it seems less natural.

[MU82]

I am totally in agreement with Unk, Goose and Shooter, and have stated similar in this and other threads.

You're not gonna win 'em all big. There's an opponent on the floor, too, and sometimes they play out of their arses the same night you don't play your best. That's the exact recipe for upsets, both in the NCAAT and in some December buy game.

Unlike Purdue last March, unlike Kentucky against the mighty Seawolves, and unlike Northwestern against the Craptastic All-Timers -- but exactly like Marquette v Davidson 2013 and Marquette v Holy Cross 2003 -- Marquette actually won the game.

[Dr. Blackheart]

That river of spilled beer was problematic.

[MU90620]

The intent was to prevent schools from reclassifying based on the immediate success of one of its teams. That may have made some sense back in the day, but now it really doesn't since the resource requirements for D1 means schools don't really reclassify on a whim.

The rule is kept so schools face less competition. You think other Summit League schools want it to change?

We might be saying the same thing, but I was told by a D2 coach that the rule was put in place because the academic eligibility rules were different for D1, D2 and D3 back in the day. The D1 rules were more stringent and they didn't want a D2 school recruiting a bunch of non qualifiers and then elevating their program and competing against teams who could not recruit those kids.  The 5 years is so all possible non qualifiers cycle off the team.

The example he gave was College of Charleston when John Krees was coach back in the 90s. They elevated and played in the old TAAC which is now the Atlantic Sun. They were stacked with non qualifiers and dominated the league for 3 years but could never go to the tourney. None of the kids would have been eligible to play D1 but they were eligible to go to CoC.

[muwarrior69]

Wouldn't have been as close if those old alums with good seats would have cheered louder, or the hot chicks sitting close didn't distract the players. (Feel free to pick either reason.    )

Maybe they were taking video of the hot chicks.

[Carl]

We might be saying the same thing, but I was told by a D2 coach that the rule was put in place because the academic eligibility rules were different for D1, D2 and D3 back in the day. The D1 rules were more stringent and they didn't want a D2 school recruiting a bunch of non qualifiers and then elevating their program and competing against teams who could not recruit those kids.  The 5 years is so all possible non qualifiers cycle off the team.

The example he gave was College of Charleston when John Krees was coach back in the 90s. They elevated and played in the old TAAC which is now the Atlantic Sun. They were stacked with non qualifiers and dominated the league for 3 years but could never go to the tourney. None of the kids would have been eligible to play D1 but they were eligible to go to CoC.

This actually makes a ton of sense to me.

Unrelated, but ND caught quite the ricochet shot from Shaka in the AP postgame recap:

Smart said he had warned his players about St. Thomas' potential following Marquette's 78-59 blowout of Notre Dame.

"I told the guys after we got done playing our last game, I said, 'Guys, I know this is a brain bender, but the next opponent is a lot better than the team we just played,'" Smart said. "And that was obvious tonight."

[MuggsyB]

This actually makes a ton of sense to me.

Unrelated, but ND caught quite the ricochet shot from Shaka in the AP postgame recap:

Smart said he had warned his players about St. Thomas' potential following Marquette's 78-59 blowout of Notre Dame.

"I told the guys after we got done playing our last game, I said, 'Guys, I know this is a brain bender, but the next opponent is a lot better than the team we just played,'" Smart said. "And that was obvious tonight."

I think this was obvious the first few minutes of the game last night.  I would think the MU players recognized quickly that this wasn't a quad 5 opponent like Notre Dame. 

[MuggsyB]

I am totally in agreement with Unk, Goose and Shooter, and have stated similar in this and other threads.

You're not gonna win 'em all big. There's an opponent on the floor, too, and sometimes they play out of their arses the same night you don't play your best. That's the exact recipe for upsets, both in the NCAAT and in some December buy game.

Unlike Purdue last March, unlike Kentucky against the mighty Seawolves, and unlike Northwestern against the Craptastic All-Timers -- but exactly like Marquette v Davidson 2013 and Marquette v Holy Cross 2003 -- Marquette actually won the game.

That fine, and fair, but we must get back to playing high octane/attacking hoops on both ends of the floor.   And we need Stevie back.  He's very important to our rotations. 

[DoctorV]

I do think this game confirmed why Shaka doesn't play Oso and Gold together all that much - and frankly I'm a little surprised he played them together as much as he did in this one.

Gold has offensive skills, and he's OK defending a player who is built like he is. But he simply cannot stay in front of anybody with any quickness at all, and it affects the entire defense. His man beats him, Oso has to step up, and it leaves an opponent open for a layup or a rebound basket.

By far Gold's best role is subbing in for Oso. He gives us a different look because he can hit 3s, and he's decent at defending opposing bigs as long as they aren't Edey huge.

Yep. He's not great defending in space against quicker players.

That said, it's easy to forget that we have gotten used to the best 'guard in space' big in Marquette history.
Oso is a magician. His footwork is incredible, he's quick, he's agile, he's elite.
It's going to be impossible to find someone as good as him at guarding multiple shapes/sizes/and positions of players in space.

[panda]

Great result going into the first conference game. The team should be worked very hard in practice this week and will be laser focused come pc game.