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Author Topic: New tier of Division 1 for NIL  (Read 4153 times)

Coleman

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2023, 03:51:58 PM »
I have no problem with paying players.

But how many damn subdivisions of college athletics do we need?

wadesworld

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2023, 03:59:37 PM »
I have no problem with paying players.

But how many damn subdivisions of college athletics do we need?

Probably more.  There's way too many D1 athletics programs.
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wiscwarrior

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2023, 04:27:17 PM »
Is it possible that this new division would be formed for football only?

avid1010

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2023, 04:28:47 PM »
Yes! And fire them if they don’t play to perceived potential or there is a different player you want to bring in tomorrow! #FreeMarket
This isn't currently happening???

MUbiz

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2023, 04:54:15 PM »
Not a massive fan of Pitino, but he is not wrong:  https://twitter.com/RealPitino/status/1732127831784862089

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2023, 04:55:01 PM »
Yes! And fire them if they don’t play to perceived potential or there is a different player you want to bring in tomorrow! #FreeMarket

I sent a email to Broeker to write up the PIPs after that Madison stinker.

brewcity77

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2023, 05:56:17 PM »
Do all these kids get into these top tier schools if they aren't good at a sport? No. Duke alone turns down an insane amount of valedictorians every year and yet you get guys with less than stellar GPAs in the programs, from less than stellar schools. Value of priority admission? I'd say fairly high.

It is something you can pay rent with as housing is included. You're right it's not something you can feed your family with. What it though is the money your average student is paying well into their middle aged years for attending insanely bloated cost of universities right now. Isn't something you can spend? no but not having loans or rent again frees up expenses so you can spend. Having basic needs and no debt and connections is payment in the future funds that it'll set aside.

Full time job? Does that devalue the cost? If I go back to get an MBA do I get a different cost structure because I to am a full time employee? Do students working 3 jobs to make ends meet who are the same age as these athletes get a break because they're full time employees?

All false equivalencies. Anyone that wants to get the benefits of NIL can do so, athlete or otherwise. If you want to make money off your Instagram account, if you want to be in ads, if you want to be a spokesman or sell merch, you are free to do so. It's actually even easier for non-SAs to do so. Not sure why you're so butthurt that they can do what other students have been able to do since forever.
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The Equalizer

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2023, 06:04:03 PM »
https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/39047353/ncaa-proposes-rule-let-schools-athletes-enter-nil-deals

I've been hearing about this idea for a while, but now that it's coming straight from the source (NCAA Prez Charlie Baker), it seems like a plan like this might have some legs.  NIL has clearly changed the playing field for major college athletics, but it has opened a lot of doors that this move might be able to solve.

Let's be honest, the BTD collective has been great for MU's recruiting efforts and supporting some local causes, but we all know what it really is doing: paying the players to play.  This new plan would remove the perverse incentives and just bring everything back out into the open.  Plus it would make it easier for governing bodies (namely the NCAA) to monitor and make rules that promote some level of competitive fairness between similar institutions.  I can't imagine that anyone (other than the QBs themselves) wants to continue to see the college QB carousel every offseason due to the $1-$2M NIL deals being thrown at transfers.

Additionally, Title IX will force NIL to also benefit female athletics.  It's great that MU's NIL collective has sponsored our women's basketball players, but there is no legal reason why NIL collectives have to do so.  If, however, it's the athletic departments paying players, then they will be required to compensate women equally by Title IX regulations.

Given Shaka's very public statements regarding how he wants NIL reserved for retention, at best all we can say is that NIL hasn't hurt MU's recruiting.  Then again, every player getting significant minutes was signed before NIL rules were in place, so we probably can't even go that far yet.

westcoastwarrior

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2023, 06:39:07 PM »
If pro-sports had to create a cap to prevent Billionaires from buying championships each year, why can't there be a CAP for each university.  With rules on percentage ranges for each sport Male and Female.   How you budget the money is the University's prerogative.  Plus is would be the school's decision to spend the entire amount each year or not.  If you go over the cap...you lose scholarships?  Something needs to be done to make it equal.  Otherwise college sports in small markets will be toast.  A few alumni can help the cause, but really big market areas will rule in my opinion.

WhiteTrash

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2023, 07:08:18 PM »
If pro-sports had to create a cap to prevent Billionaires from buying championships each year, why can't there be a CAP for each university.  With rules on percentage ranges for each sport Male and Female.   How you budget the money is the University's prerogative.  Plus is would be the school's decision to spend the entire amount each year or not.  If you go over the cap...you lose scholarships?  Something needs to be done to make it equal.  Otherwise college sports in small markets will be toast.  A few alumni can help the cause, but really big market areas will rule in my opinion.
The salary cap will come. The false narrative is that MU is competing with KU and Wisconsin and DePaul when in fact there are partners. If the NFL adopted the NCAA model, GB and KC would be toast. The NFL and every other sports league has a salary cap and collective bargaining. It will come very soon to the NCAA. College sports IS pro sports.

Galway Eagle

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2023, 07:48:49 PM »
All false equivalencies. Anyone that wants to get the benefits of NIL can do so, athlete or otherwise. If you want to make money off your Instagram account, if you want to be in ads, if you want to be a spokesman or sell merch, you are free to do so. It's actually even easier for non-SAs to do so. Not sure why you're so butthurt that they can do what other students have been able to do since forever.

1) I've never once been against NIL, I'm against putting them on direct payroll.

2) butthurt? Weren't you one of the people pointing out that that's a homophobic term? If I'm mislabeling you my bad but all the same something to ponder might be why you choose to use homophobic insults in the future.

3) you said it's false equivalency. It's not, you can say "it doesn't pay rent" when it literally does and then say "False equivalency!" You can't say it doesn't give you spending money and then when it's pointed out that they'll have freed up funds for spending post graduating due to no loans, unlike the vast majority of students, claim that's a "false equivalency" housing is housing, having room in your budget for spending or other things is just that. Lastly, I'd say we would agree that having access to a premier program's platform for NIL is a major factor for any successful NIL monetization. So it's not a false equivalency to say that getting into these schools to maximize profit is already an extremely payment in itself.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 08:06:18 PM by Galway Eagle »
Maigh Eo for Sam

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2023, 08:24:28 PM »
Why do you care if they’re on the payroll? It doesn’t impact you at all.
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brewcity77

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2023, 08:36:21 PM »
1) I've never once been against NIL, I'm against putting them on direct payroll.

2) butthurt? Weren't you one of the people pointing out that that's a homophobic term? If I'm mislabeling you my bad but all the same something to ponder might be why you choose to use homophobic insults in the future.

3) you said it's false equivalency. It's not, you can say "it doesn't pay rent" when it literally does and then say "False equivalency!" You can't say it doesn't give you spending money and then when it's pointed out that they'll have freed up funds for spending post graduating due to no loans, unlike the vast majority of students, claim that's a "false equivalency" housing is housing, having room in your budget for spending or other things is just that. Lastly, I'd say we would agree that having access to a premier program's platform for NIL is a major factor for any successful NIL monetization. So it's not a false equivalency to say that getting into these schools to maximize profit is already an extremely payment in itself.

2) Never used the term before on Scoop, but fair point.

3) "Housing is Housing" is simply ridiculous, and I'm not talking about just their individual rent but their ability to support a family (which I made apparent in my first post). Does a dorm room allow them to provide housing for their parents, spouses, or children? And freed up funds post graduation? Are you joking? It's a lot of privilege to assume these individuals and their families have zero financial needs while they are in school. False equivalency is exactly what you're providing. And while getting in helps, it's no guarantee. Simply making a roster or earning a scholarship is no guarantee, especially when we're talking about 360+ programs (just at the D1 basketball level).

Ultimately, the market will determine value, but I'm not a fan of starting off with limiting that value because of scholarships.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2023, 08:42:07 PM »
Why do you care if they’re on the payroll? It doesn’t impact you at all.

Is tuition rising at a rate not matching entry and mid level salaries? Yes.

Are operating costs at universities rising? Yes.

Is basketball the primary marketing channel for the university? Yes.

I'd like the money brought in from our primary marketing channel to actually be used to ensure that the university keeps costs remotely affordable for students. The people who become famous due to the Marquette brand can earn as much as they are able with NIL, good on them. But Marquette has more than upheld its due obligation in giving them a large marketing platform, full tuition, housing, food, clothing, stipend, tutoring (another expense your average college student has they don't), etc that covers a crap ton of money that other students will be paying back for the better part of 20 years.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 08:51:32 PM by Galway Eagle »
Maigh Eo for Sam

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2023, 08:49:09 PM »
Yeah that’s really not how it works. It’s not a zero sum game. The costs of higher education are almost entirely determined by what students are willing to pay.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2023, 08:49:54 PM »
2) Never used the term before on Scoop, but fair point.

3) "Housing is Housing" is simply ridiculous, and I'm not talking about just their individual rent but their ability to support a family (which I made apparent in my first post). Does a dorm room allow them to provide housing for their parents, spouses, or children? And freed up funds post graduation? Are you joking? It's a lot of privilege to assume these individuals and their families have zero financial needs while they are in school. False equivalency is exactly what you're providing. And while getting in helps, it's no guarantee. Simply making a roster or earning a scholarship is no guarantee, especially when we're talking about 360+ programs (just at the D1 basketball level).

Ultimately, the market will determine value, but I'm not a fan of starting off with limiting that value because of scholarships.

Why are we talking about ability to support a family? Is MU's tuition set up so your average 18yr parent can afford it? No. So why should we care about the ability to support a family for an 18yr old who can dribble? As far as parents go same thing, the school isn't running a charity here. I'm reminded of that every time I see money disappear each month.

What family doesn't have financial needs? Name another company in the private or public sector that offers all these benefits included in the scholarship and then also adds parental care, spouse care, and children care, most I've seen is a stipend for childcare.

Again I'm in favor of NIL and a fair market value. Don't want them being directly paid by the university.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 08:52:37 PM by Galway Eagle »
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wadesworld

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2023, 08:55:14 PM »
We do all know that pretty much all paid employees of pretty much all colleges get free tuition for themselves and their family members right? Should we take that away since they’re getting paid by the school?
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brewcity77

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2023, 08:59:31 PM »
The solutions you're looking for aren't going to addressed through student athlete compensation though. If you want systemic change, that requires political will and action. That's why I'm calling these false equivalencies. Because the problems you point out are unrelated to the issue being discussed.
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DFW HOYA

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2023, 10:00:36 PM »
We do all know that pretty much all paid employees of pretty much all colleges get free tuition for themselves and their family members right? Should we take that away since they’re getting paid by the school?

Employees of Jesuit schools are also entitled to tuition reimbursement for their kids that enroll at 26 of the 27 Jesuit schools.

https://www.fordham.edu/undergraduate-financial-aid/types-of-financial-aid/faculty-and-staff-children-exchange-fachex-program/
« Last Edit: December 05, 2023, 10:03:14 PM by DFW HOYA »

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2023, 11:53:54 PM »
We do all know that pretty much all paid employees of pretty much all colleges get free tuition for themselves and their family members right? Should we take that away since they’re getting paid by the school?

That's a Marquette thing. Not a very common practice. Most offer discounted tuition.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2023, 11:58:10 PM »
Why do you care if they’re on the payroll? It doesn’t impact you at all.

I think putting players directly on the payroll will have far reaching consequences that will likely result in lost opportunities for 1000s of student athletes.

But as I understand it, this proposal doesn't "put athletes directly on the payroll". It essentially allows schools to become more directly involved in NIL...which they already are.
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muwarrior69

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2023, 07:43:27 AM »
Yeah that’s really not how it works. It’s not a zero sum game. The costs of higher education are almost entirely determined by what students are willing to pay.

My daughter was accepted to every 4 year school she applied to. Like some students she was not sure what she wanted to do or major in. So she decided to go to our local community college for 2 years which at the time cost us 3000, not the 10k for the state school or 16k for the private schools she was accepted at. We paid only 2 years of full tuition for her BA/BS degree.

As it turned out an an adjunct professor at the community college helped my daughter find a job right after graduation working for the same company she was working at. You don't have to pay through the nose for a good/quality education.

muwarrior69

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2023, 08:27:39 AM »
I think putting players directly on the payroll will have far reaching consequences that will likely result in lost opportunities for 1000s of student athletes.

But as I understand it, this proposal doesn't "put athletes directly on the payroll". It essentially allows schools to become more directly involved in NIL...which they already are.

Exactly, all other non-revenue sport scholarships may just vanish. Even scholarships for mid and low major D1 basketball may disappear.

rgoode57

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2023, 08:48:07 AM »
We are only a step away from players simply being direct-paid employees of the schools and not being students at all. Has been that way at some schools for quite a while, but now it will likely become standard operating procedure. Schools just recruit and hire players who do not even enroll in classes. It may sound silly but it will happen in the near future.

Coleman

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Re: New tier of Division 1 for NIL
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2023, 09:01:59 AM »
1) I've never once been against NIL, I'm against putting them on direct payroll.

2) butthurt? Weren't you one of the people pointing out that that's a homophobic term? If I'm mislabeling you my bad but all the same something to ponder might be why you choose to use homophobic insults in the future.

3) you said it's false equivalency. It's not, you can say "it doesn't pay rent" when it literally does and then say "False equivalency!" You can't say it doesn't give you spending money and then when it's pointed out that they'll have freed up funds for spending post graduating due to no loans, unlike the vast majority of students, claim that's a "false equivalency" housing is housing, having room in your budget for spending or other things is just that. Lastly, I'd say we would agree that having access to a premier program's platform for NIL is a major factor for any successful NIL monetization. So it's not a false equivalency to say that getting into these schools to maximize profit is already an extremely payment in itself.

Lots of students are on universities' direct payrolls. Kids who get full ride academic scholarships often get stipends or work study jobs that come with income. I'm not sure why athletes can't have the same benefits many regular students are entitled to?

In grad school I got a full tuition scholarship that came with a $20k a year stipend (this was 15 years ago, I'm sure its more now). Why can't athletes, who bring in millions for the university, get the same opportunity?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2023, 09:08:53 AM by Coleman »

 

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