RIP Henry Kissinger

[lawdog77]

He told them. a Viaux coup.would.fail.and to stop that path. Viaux didnt listen. Viaux went off.on his own and botched the kidnapping.

There are plenty other things to ream.Kissinger about, its the authors theory from these transcripts that Kissinger called the Schneider kidnapping off.

[Jockey]

He was a favorite of Anthony Bourdain 

In Bourdain's 2001 memoir, "A Cook's Tour: Global Adventures in Extreme Cuisines," he wrote, "Once you've been to Cambodia, you'll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia — the fruits of his genius for statesmanship — and you will never understand why he's not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milosevic," a reference to Slobodan Milosevic, the former Yugoslav and Serbian leader who was on trial for war crimes when he died in prison in 2006.

[Pakuni]

He told them. a Viaux coup.would.fail.and to stop that path. Viaux didnt listen. Viaux went off.on his own and botched the kidnapping.

There are plenty other things to ream.Kissinger about, its the authors theory from these transcripts that Kissinger called the Schneider kidnapping off.

You didn't answer the question.
Do you find it credible that National Security Adviser/Secretary of State didn't know that formenting a coup was the "firm and continuing policy" of the intelligence community? That somehow that communication went out and slipped under his radar? That no one informed him of it?
Seems sus.

[JWags85]

I didn't mean to accuse you of Jingoism but; I just think that you are coming up with a little bit of a strawman that people condemning Kissinger are also condemning american history and supporting authoritarian regimes. I guarantee that a majority of people who feel similarly to how I do about the man do not think like that. I know of the voices that you speak of on the internet very much and those are very much an echo chamber of the loudest voices, much like the other end of the political spectrum.

Though to be honest a lot of people don't have that strong of an opinion on him either way, given the average American's knowledge of history after WWII.

Call me anti-american or whatever but I do not think it is inappropriate to voice your relief/satisfaction that someone whose direct actions has caused untold human misery is no longer with us. I think that demonstrates empathy for your fellow man more than anything. The more we attempt to bind his atrocities with his "brilliance and skill", the more likely we are to further justify and downplay similar actions in the future.

I think it was more a commentary on an unfortunate state of American political/social/etc intelligence, understanding of nuance, and general history coupled with the ease of which a viewpoint or theme can groundswell on social media and the like.

Like you stated, I HIGHLY doubt the majority of people I'm referring to are keen consumers of history books/articles or well educated on the breadth of American foreign policy post WWII.  They read some article about Kissinger in Vice or the like, latched onto the memes about him outliving everyone, and now posture absurdly.

And I don't think your mentality is anti American at all.  Relief/satisfaction is one thing.  The jubilation/celebration from the people I described above is more what I'm referring to. Cause it's just cries for attention/engagement from their echo chambers online.  I bet good money they don't know who Rene Schneider is or couldn't list an actual war crime Kissinger committed other than "he killed a bunch of non white people".

And yea social media isn't real life, but when you're in social or professional circles and you start to hear the rhetoric that comes from nonsense like that, it's annoying at best, concerning at worst.  No different than the unsettling and very common refrain of people regurgitating what they see on Fox News

[dgies9156]

I'm no great fan of Henry Kissinger's either. He was myopic and failed to understand that America is built on our values as much as on geopolitical strength. He also failed to understand the soft underpinnings of Communism and perpetuated the jingoistic mood that was part of our country in those days. Thank God for Jimmy Carter, who brought us back to our values and away from the nihilistic Nixon/Kissinger diplomacy.

Here's the rub I have. Between 1945 and 1989, America was whipped into an anti-Communist frenzy. It's like we were collectively insane. After World War II, we had this massive military-industrial complex and the military, being the bureaucracy that it is, took every word Josef Stalin and his heirs uttered as gospel truth. Throughout the 1950s and 1960s, we manufactured a belligerence with the Soviet Union that was self-feeding and self-fulfilling. It's an absolute miracle we didn't end up in thermonuclear Armageddon.

Premiers Khrushchev and Gorbachev effectively said the same thing many times!

Into that insanity stepped Henry Kissinger. He was a tactician and a very good one. He knew how to stroke President Nixon's ego while simultaneously playing interests, even countries, off against each other.

The reality -- and the something the Soviets never wanted anyone to know -- was they were a paper tiger (albeit with nuclear teeth). From the Urals west, the Soviet Union was totally destroyed by World War II. Its people were living in squalor and barely fed for the 1940s and much of the 1950s. Its industrial might gone. In the late 1990s, when we traveled much of the western Soviet Union, much of the cities in the area were still a disaster. Nixon and Kissinger knew the Soviets couldn't sustain a land invasion of western Europe and yet they behaved as if global Communism was a threat to the Little Old Lady in Dubuque.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

I think it was more a commentary on an unfortunate state of American political/social/etc intelligence, understanding of nuance, and general history coupled with the ease of which a viewpoint or theme can groundswell on social media and the like.

Like you stated, I HIGHLY doubt the majority of people I'm referring to are keen consumers of history books/articles or well educated on the breadth of American foreign policy post WWII.  They read some article about Kissinger in Vice or the like, latched onto the memes about him outliving everyone, and now posture absurdly.

And I don't think your mentality is anti American at all.  Relief/satisfaction is one thing.  The jubilation/celebration from the people I described above is more what I'm referring to. Cause it's just cries for attention/engagement from their echo chambers online.  I bet good money they don't know who Rene Schneider is or couldn't list an actual war crime Kissinger committed other than "he killed a bunch of non white people".

And yea social media isn't real life, but when you're in social or professional circles and you start to hear the rhetoric that comes from nonsense like that, it's annoying at best, concerning at worst.  No different than the unsettling and very common refrain of people regurgitating what they see on Fox News

Fair enough, thank you for your deliberate thoughtfulness as usual!

[Hards Alumni]

Hopefully the P stands for piss in this thread.