2023-2024 College Basketball Thread

[MUBurrow]

I’m guessing Illinois will not, though.

Are they still able to not play him? My reading is that the TRO was granted against Illinois suspending him. I guess they can’t force Underwood to play him even if he’s eligible, but that’s a pretty brutal position to put Underwood in. I’m lighting the TAMU beacon to explain it like I’m an idiot.

[tower912]

No idea what happened with such a similar roster, but MSU is hilariously bad.

Izzo called a play against Minnesota's 3-2 zone that may have been the best zone breaker I have seen recently.  And if everybody starts doing it, it could end the 3-2 zone.

[WhiteTrash]

Are they still able to not play him? My reading is that the TRO was granted against Illinois suspending him. I guess they can’t force Underwood to play him even if he’s eligible, but that’s a pretty brutal position to put Underwood in. I’m lighting the TAMU beacon to explain it like I’m an idiot.

What a weird and uncomfortable situation for everyone. The university clearly does not want him there; and "are continuing to review the court order", to possibly appeal?

I would have thought if UofI wanted him back but had their hands tied by university policies, they would have been excited by the TRO and accept it as a final determination.

I wonder if he ultimately steps away due to lack of support by appealing the TRO, Underwood not playing him if Brad is privy to evidence and/or women's groups pressuring and protesting. 

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

I wouldn't assume that the university does not want him there. U of I was pretty much obligated to put on some sort of defense to its decision to suspend Shannon. As was pointed out earlier, U of I was in bind on this one. I had been convinced that Shannon was going to lose his TRO. I was surprised to learn from the opinion that there are separate policies for athletes and regular students, and the regular student process has due process components that are not present in the athlete policy. The judge noted that Shannon may still end up suspended but he is entitled to the due process components that regular students are entitled to because, after all, he is a student first (theoretically). The U of I just started the investigative part of the student due process policy on January 6. How fast that proceeds will be a clue as to the university position on whether it wants him there or not. My guess is Underwood is pretty much obligated to play him close to the same amount of minutes he was being played prior to the suspension or Shannon will be back before the judge forcing Underwood's hand.

I will defer to TAMU's read if he decides to jump in here.

[wadesworld]

Can walk ons sue schools for not playing them?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He is not obligated to play him. He isn't even obligated to put him on the roster. Illinois will likely be obligated to honor his scholarship if he continues to be enrolled.

[WhiteTrash]

I wouldn't assume that the university does not want him there. U of I was pretty much obligated to put on some sort of defense to its decision to suspend Shannon. As was pointed out earlier, U of I was in bind on this one. I had been convinced that Shannon was going to lose his TRO. I was surprised to learn from the opinion that there are separate policies for athletes and regular students, and the regular student process has due process components that are not present in the athlete policy. The judge noted that Shannon may still end up suspended but he is entitled to the due process components that regular students are entitled to because, after all, he is a student first (theoretically). The U of I just started the investigative part of the student due process policy on January 6. How fast that proceeds will be a clue as to the university position on whether it wants him there or not. My guess is Underwood is pretty much obligated to play him close to the same amount of minutes he was being played prior to the suspension or Shannon will be back before the judge forcing Underwood's hand.

I will defer to TAMU's read if he decides to jump in here.

Fair enough. I just found it interesting that the university is continuing to review the TRO decision and not just accepting the decision and moving forward.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Texas beats Baylor. 

[JakeBarnes]

Texas beats Baylor.

WILD finish.

[CountryRoads]

Texas beats Baylor.

Baylor’s second loss of the week. Lots of teams lost this week including the badgers to an abysmal Penn State. MU should be moving up.

[HowardsWorld]

Never been so annoyed with a player that dominates like Edey. The guy throws elbows constantly, has guys get called constantly for fouls on him and yet he has 0 fouls at halftime. It’s literally impossible to be that big and never get called for a foul.

[MU82]

Texas beats Baylor.

I like that result, and would like to see Texas put it together over the next month.

[PGsHeroes32]

Only 10 min in

But UCLA punching Zona in the mouth

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Only 10 min in

But UCLA punching Zona in the mouth

Update:

UCLA up 11 with 10 minutes left.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Kansas down 5 at West Virginia with 6 minutes left.

[PGsHeroes32]

Uodate:

UCLA up 11 with 10 minutes left.

Zona won the stretch run

Cronin def does seem to have been big issue tho

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Kansas loses at West Virginia.

Zona won the stretch run

Cronin def does seem to have been big issue tho

Impressive comeback by Arizona.

[MuggsyB]

Thank you Pitt. 

[1SE]

Thank you Pitt.

https://diddukewin.com/

[CountryRoads]

Thank you Pitt.

Duke is a weak team playing a Mickey Mouse schedule. Their resume is a joke compared to MU’s. No business being #7.

[MuggsyB]

Duke is a weak team playing a Mickey Mouse schedule. Their resume is a joke compared to MU’s. No business being #7.

They're 11th on Kenpom for some reason.  The only team they have beaten is Baylor. 

[1SE]

Duke is a weak team playing a Mickey Mouse schedule. Their resume is a joke compared to MU’s. No business being #7.

ACC is a joke

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Are they still able to not play him? My reading is that the TRO was granted against Illinois suspending him. I guess they can’t force Underwood to play him even if he’s eligible, but that’s a pretty brutal position to put Underwood in. I’m lighting the TAMU beacon to explain it like I’m an idiot.

Regarding playing time for Shannon, as of now, they can continue to not play him. The TRO means that he must be allowed to attend classes and receive any other educational benefit that he was previously receiving. Playing time, hell even practice time, is not an educational benefit.

All that being said, lawsuits have been attempted before in similar situations trying to force schools to play players. To my knowledge, none have been successful. I mean, imagine the logistics of that. Judge issues a court order saying a player must play X number of minutes a game. What if the player has a bad night? Or picks up 3 fouls in the first half? I don't think any judge would be eager to intervene....But....I'm not aware of a similar situation with this high profile of an athlete. Shannon may have an easier time arguing the damage a lack of playing time is having on him. Draw the right judge and convince them that not playing Shannon is a punishment without due process....I've seen crazier decisions.

I don't know what Illinois will do here. I thought they might just play the "well we tried to do the right thing but that darn judge says we have to play him" card. But their initial reaction leads me to think that they'll continue to sit him. It shouldn't be this way, but I imagine the details of the criminal case will play a role in the decision. Not all DAs are the same, but my experience with most DAs is that they will not issue an arrest warrant on a sexual assault case unless they think it is a winner. Criminal sexual assault is very difficult to prove. If the DA thinks they could win, I doubt the details are good.

I wouldn't assume that the university does not want him there. U of I was pretty much obligated to put on some sort of defense to its decision to suspend Shannon. As was pointed out earlier, U of I was in bind on this one. I had been convinced that Shannon was going to lose his TRO. I was surprised to learn from the opinion that there are separate policies for athletes and regular students, and the regular student process has due process components that are not present in the athlete policy. The judge noted that Shannon may still end up suspended but he is entitled to the due process components that regular students are entitled to because, after all, he is a student first (theoretically). The U of I just started the investigative part of the student due process policy on January 6. How fast that proceeds will be a clue as to the university position on whether it wants him there or not. My guess is Underwood is pretty much obligated to play him close to the same amount of minutes he was being played prior to the suspension or Shannon will be back before the judge forcing Underwood's hand.

I will defer to TAMU's read if he decides to jump in here.

I was floored when I read that piece. It is incredibly stupid to have separate processes for athletes and non-athletes. For more reasons than just this. That was a common practice 10-15 years ago, but the vast majority of universities have moved away from that. Irresponsible on U of I's part.

There are very clear requirements for suspending a student for a Title IX violation prior to a finding that are  detailed in the Trump-era regulations (which are still in effect now). Without going into the weeds too much, universities are required to a do a hearing that both the complainant and respondent have the right to participate in and make a decision on the necessity of punishing the respondent prior the respondent being found responsible and a certain standard needs to be met. If Illinois skipped this because of his status as an athlete, than the TRO is absolutely warranted.

[PGsHeroes32]

Well, hes currently playing immediately

[Viper]

Well, hes currently playing immediately

…therefore…hopefully he’ll hit the game winner to beat Wisconsin