Why was Oso comforting Gold after the game.

[Galway Eagle]

Ben is very athletic.  Talks about him playing on the national rugby team or the Olympic track team.  Just like Keeyan.

Patience.   It is a virtue.

after the All Blacks recent international season they'll take anyone to turn it around

[Its DJOver]

Still feel like the game is a half step to fast for Gold, which is fine for a true Freshman.  I wince a little every time he drives, feels a little unnatural right now.  His role is a catch and shoot guy and keep the ball moving on offense and he plays that role fine.

I feel like the ball has a tendency to stick in Joplin's hands when he gets it and causes him to force things sometimes.  However, given how Shaka reeled Kam in earlier in the season after some of his moon shots, I'm assuming the Shaka is okay with Joplin taking many of the shots that he does.  His role is instant offense off the bench and he plays that role fine, even if his defense could improve.

[21Jumpstreet]

Still feel like the game is a half step to fast for Gold, which is fine for a true Freshman.  I wince a little every time he drives, feels a little unnatural right now.  His role is a catch and shoot guy and keep the ball moving on offense and he plays that role fine.

I feel like the ball has a tendency to stick in Joplin's hands when he gets it and causes him to force things sometimes.  However, given how Shaka reeled Kam in earlier in the season after some of his moon shots, I'm assuming the Shaka is okay with Joplin taking many of the shots that he does.  His role is instant offense off the bench and he plays that role fine, even if his defense could improve.

I think this is all valid. Question, do you think the game is too fast for Joplin, too?

[Its DJOver]

I think this is all valid. Question, do you think the game is too fast for Joplin, too?

I wouldn't say "too fast", but it's certainly not as slow as it is for TKO or Oso.

I think Jop knows that he's not the best defender and therefore has the mindset that he has to make up for it on the offensive end, which can lead to a quick trigger. 

[Elonsmusk]

21 Jump

I am very high on Gold and think he might still play a role before this season is over. That being said, Joplin has been a big part of our success and he needs to play. He is going to play a big role next year and I think plays a bit into his playing time. Long term, I am extremely bullish on Gold. I think he will change the offense in a different way than Oso has, but it will be a big part of the offense down the road. Keep the faith on Joplin, IMO he will be a game changing player (for the good) and an important part of team success.

Goose - I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded.  I'll add, Joplin was a Shaka recruit/one of Shaka's guys.  As Kolek said on the recent podcast, when the Head Coach is your lead recruiter, you are going to get a longer leash.  Shaka sees the potential of Jop, and is investing into that this year.  As another poster mentioned, Gold is in a role similar to what Jop had last year.

That aside, Ben's freshman Conference only numbers thus far are substantially better than what Jop put up last year.  And, though a much smaller sample size, Gold's conference only numbers are significantly better than Jop's this season.

My biggest "beef" with Shaka on Gold was during the Hall game, while we were up 15ish Ben had a bad/careless turnover as he dribbled the ball into the front court.  I don't think you build confidence in a player when you yank him after that kind of mistake.  So while Shaka has been creating a highlight reel of plays for Ben this season, that he sends to him, to build his confidence - I think that gets undone some when you hook the player after a mistake he doesn't make 99 time out of 100 making that same play.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Goose - I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded.  I'll add, Joplin was a Shaka recruit/one of Shaka's guys.  As Kolek said on the recent podcast, when the Head Coach is your lead recruiter, you are going to get a longer leash.  Shaka sees the potential of Jop, and is investing into that this year.  As another poster mentioned, Gold is in a role similar to what Jop had last year.

That aside, Ben's freshman Conference only numbers thus far are substantially better than what Jop put up last year.  And, though a much smaller sample size, Gold's conference only numbers are significantly better than Jop's this season.

My biggest "beef" with Shaka on Gold was during the Hall game, while we were up 15ish Ben had a bad/careless turnover as he dribbled the ball into the front court.  I don't think you build confidence in a player when you yank him after that kind of mistake.  So while Shaka has been creating a highlight reel of plays for Ben this season, that he sends to him, to build his confidence - I think that gets undone some when you hook the player after a mistake he doesn't make 99 time out of 100 making that same play.

Ben didn't just commit a turnover. He committed a dumb foul right after. He wasn't mentally prepared.

And I don't think Shaka playing Joplin ahead of Gold right now has anything to do with who recruited him. He's simply a better player at this point. Statistically that's pretty obvious.

[21Jumpstreet]

Goose - I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded.  I'll add, Joplin was a Shaka recruit/one of Shaka's guys.  As Kolek said on the recent podcast, when the Head Coach is your lead recruiter, you are going to get a longer leash.  Shaka sees the potential of Jop, and is investing into that this year.  As another poster mentioned, Gold is in a role similar to what Jop had last year.

That aside, Ben's freshman Conference only numbers thus far are substantially better than what Jop put up last year.  And, though a much smaller sample size, Gold's conference only numbers are significantly better than Jop's this season.

My biggest "beef" with Shaka on Gold was during the Hall game, while we were up 15ish Ben had a bad/careless turnover as he dribbled the ball into the front court.  I don't think you build confidence in a player when you yank him after that kind of mistake.  So while Shaka has been creating a highlight reel of plays for Ben this season, that he sends to him, to build his confidence - I think that gets undone some when you hook the player after a mistake he doesn't make 99 time out of 100 making that same play.

Well said

[21Jumpstreet]

I wouldn't say "too fast", but it's certainly not as slow as it is for TKO or Oso.

I think Jop knows that he's not the best defender and therefore has the mindset that he has to make up for it on the offensive end, which can lead to a quick trigger.

Interesting thought about having to make up for his lack of defense. I think Jop could significantly improve his defensive impact by being less of a ball watcher and hedging a half step in every defensive situation. He constantly gets beat off the dribble, beat to spots, to loose balls and long rebounds. He is not quick nor is he going to really out athlete anyone, so hedge a little, use your size. It’s a mental thing, a commitment thing.

[wadesworld]

Shaka's got a top 10 KenPom and Torvik team, a top 15 (coaches poll) team, and a real shot to win a Big East regular season title this season.  If he's picking a guy's playing time based on how that player might need to develop for next year, that's a concern.  All hands should be on deck this season.

We were up 20 and Gold made two bad plays.  They cut the lead to 15 with 10 minutes left.  Shaka made the right move by getting guys back in who could steady the play and make sure Seton Hall wasn't going to get momentum and suddenly we're in a game with 8 minutes left, trying to get momentum back on our side.

[MU82]

My biggest "beef" with Shaka on Gold was during the Hall game, while we were up 15ish Ben had a bad/careless turnover as he dribbled the ball into the front court.  I don't think you build confidence in a player when you yank him after that kind of mistake.  So while Shaka has been creating a highlight reel of plays for Ben this season, that he sends to him, to build his confidence - I think that gets undone some when you hook the player after a mistake he doesn't make 99 time out of 100 making that same play.

I'm guessing that Shaka looks at it as holding a player accountable. Shaka seems to have an excellent way with players -- knows when to pat them on the back, knows when to kick them in the butt. I think back to last year when he benched Kolek, benched Elliott, and benched Morsell on several occasions. Again, I'm gonna lean toward trusting Shaka on this one because he knows Ben Gold best, or at least I hope he does. If it turns out that Shaka doesn't actually know which levers to pull on each player, then maybe all of us proshaks are overestimating his coaching ability. I don't think that's the case, though.

[Uncle Rico]

He gowne, green weenie, next man up aina

[ceh]

He's a freshmen big...getting meaningful minutes...on a top 20 team.  Future is bright.

This...

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I wouldn't say "too fast", but it's certainly not as slow as it is for TKO or Oso.

I think Jop knows that he's not the best defender and therefore has the mindset that he has to make up for it on the offensive end, which can lead to a quick trigger.

I'm not sure I would call it trying to "make up for his defense"...I think Jop is a shooter first, second, and third. Unlike our last first, second, and third shooter Rowsey, however, I think Joplin is actively trying to get better on the defensive end.

[Elonsmusk]

Ben didn't just commit a turnover. He committed a dumb foul right after. He wasn't mentally prepared.

And I don't think Shaka playing Joplin ahead of Gold right now has anything to do with who recruited him. He's simply a better player at this point. Statistically that's pretty obvious.

LOL.  Not mentally prepared.  How exactly does one get "mentally prepared."  Does the mentally prepared player never commit a foul or turnover?  I mean Joplin fouls at a higher rate than Ben.

Please do share your stats that illustrate Joplin is obviously a better player.  Are you going to tout Joplin's second worst 44.8% eFG during conference play?  Or the 4.8 fouls/40 committed during conference play?  But, Joplin rebounding at 13.7 DR during conference play, versus Gold at 9.9.  That aside, I kind of like Gold's 15.6% Block percentage during conference play to Jop's 1.7%.

Sample size of course matters, but I don't it's some kind of slam dunk case that Joplin has been magnificent during conference play.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

LOL.  Not mentally prepared.  How exactly does one get "mentally prepared."  Does the mentally prepared player never commit a foul or turnover?  I mean Joplin fouls at a higher rate than Ben.

Please do share your stats that illustrate Joplin is obviously a better player.  Are you going to tout Joplin's second worst 44.8% eFG during conference play?  Or the 4.8 fouls/40 committed during conference play?  But, Joplin rebounding at 13.7 DR during conference play, versus Gold at 9.9.  That aside, I kind of like Gold's 15.6% Block percentage during conference play to Jop's 1.7%.

Sample size of course matters, but I don't it's some kind of slam dunk case that Joplin has been magnificent during conference play.

It comes as no surprise that you don't understand what it means to be mentally prepared.  It's pretty simple - don't commit easily avoidable fouls and turnovers when you are put into a game, because you are going to get pulled.

Joplin is statistically a better shooter and rebounder.  Sure, Gold has more blocks.  BFD.

Gold has a higher upside, but he's not there yet.

[Elonsmusk]

Shaka's got a top 10 KenPom and Torvik team, a top 15 (coaches poll) team, and a real shot to win a Big East regular season title this season.  If he's picking a guy's playing time based on how that player might need to develop for next year, that's a concern.  All hands should be on deck this season.

We were up 20 and Gold made two bad plays.  They cut the lead to 15 with 10 minutes left.  Shaka made the right move by getting guys back in who could steady the play and make sure Seton Hall wasn't going to get momentum and suddenly we're in a game with 8 minutes left, trying to get momentum back on our side.

Fair.

I'm guessing that Shaka looks at it as holding a player accountable. Shaka seems to have an excellent way with players -- knows when to pat them on the back, knows when to kick them in the butt. I think back to last year when he benched Kolek, benched Elliott, and benched Morsell on several occasions. Again, I'm gonna lean toward trusting Shaka on this one because he knows Ben Gold best, or at least I hope he does. If it turns out that Shaka doesn't actually know which levers to pull on each player, then maybe all of us proshaks are overestimating his coaching ability. I don't think that's the case, though.

And fair.

Once again goes back to:  It's a great sign of where we are as a team/program if the seemingly only debate that exists on this team is:  Should Ben Gold get some of David Joplin's minutes (both of them being talented, valuable prospects for the team and program going forward.)

[wadesworld]

I'm not sure I would call it trying to "make up for his defense"...I think Jop is a shooter first, second, and third. Unlike our last first, second, and third shooter Rowsey, however, I think Joplin is actively trying to get better on the defensive end.

Rowsey was an awesome passer.  I loved watching him play offensively.  Yes, he loved to shoot.  But he could also get to different spots on the court that collapsed the defense and opened up good shots for his teammates.

But yeah.  He was more interested in talking than defending.  Which was also fun to watch sometimes.

[Elonsmusk]

It comes as no surprise that you don't understand what it means to be mentally prepared.  It's pretty simple - don't commit easily avoidable fouls and turnovers when you are put into a game, because you are going to get pulled.

Joplin is statistically a better shooter and rebounder.  Sure, Gold has more blocks.  BFD.

Gold has a higher upside, but he's not there yet.

crap happens during a game.  It's not a lack of "mental preparation."  Like here's how you'd explain mental preparation for Gold's play that got him pulled:  Hey, I'm going to dribble this ball into the front court and make a conscious decision and extra effort to ensure when I pick up my dribble I don't fumble the ball away.

Btw - Regarding Gold's careless foul and or fouls - I suspect if Joplin was assigned to play out of position too and guard the other team's 5, it would be a foul fest and bucket fest for the opposition.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yep. As I said, it's not surprising that you have no idea what "mental preparation" means.

[Elonsmusk]

Yep. As I said, it's not surprising that you have no idea what "mental preparation" means.

Please Sultan, do regal Scoop with your genius and explain what "mental preparation" exercises a basketball player can engage in that will result in turnover and foul-free basketball.  I look forward to hearing your suggestions.  Btw - Not surprising you've offered nothing but a weak insult attempt.

[MU82]

Once again goes back to:  It's a great sign of where we are as a team/program if the seemingly only debate that exists on this team is:  Should Ben Gold get some of David Joplin's minutes (both of them being talented, valuable prospects for the team and program going forward.)

Yep. And a coupla months ago, it was: Should Sean Jones get more of Mitchell's minutes or even start over Stevie?

Shaka didn't think so; I think most of us would agree that Shaka got it right.

And believe me, I understand your concern with the fast hooks. It can demoralize a player if it happens enough, and I'd hate to see Gold get so demoralized that he bolts after this year. In reality, though, I'm not overly concerned about it because I trust Shaka on player relationships more than any coach we've had in eons, maybe since Al.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Please Sultan, do regal Scoop with your genius and explain what "mental preparation" exercises a basketball player can engage in that will result in turnover and foul-free basketball.  I look forward to hearing your suggestions.  Btw - Not surprising you've offered nothing but a weak insult attempt.

I did.

[Elonsmusk]

I did.

No.  You really didn't. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No.  You really didn't. 

Not surprising you don't understand the English language either.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Rowsey was an awesome passer.  I loved watching him play offensively.  Yes, he loved to shoot.  But he could also get to different spots on the court that collapsed the defense and opened up good shots for his teammates.

But yeah.  He was more interested in talking than defending.  Which was also fun to watch sometimes.

Absolutely, I loved watching Rowdy on the offensive side of the floor. But if ever there was a player that tried to make up for his defensive deficiencies with his offense, it was him.