MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Marqevans on January 22, 2023, 10:13:18 AM
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Did anyone see at the end of the game Oso putting his arm around Gold. Is Gold upset about playing time?
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Did anyone see at the end of the game Oso putting his arm around Gold. Is Gold upset about playing time?
No.
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I think it was because when he got his chance, he played pretty poorly. Just a teammate lifting up another.
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I think Sultan's right. From what I see in the huddle, Oso is a coach-in-waiting.
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I think it was because when he got his chance, he played pretty poorly. Just a teammate lifting up another.
Good leadership moment for Oso. I also felt Shaka could have let Ben play through that turnover. We were still up 15ish at that moment. That aside Shaka is a big fan of Ben's and invests heavily into letting Ben know how good he can be and how high he is on him.
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Mind games
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Did anyone see at the end of the game Oso putting his arm around Gold. Is Gold upset about playing time?
I'm sure Ben wants to play more, and play better than he did. Yesterday the game seemed too fast for him. Shaka has alluded to it, but I've heard he really struggled with homesickness earlier in the year. There's a lot on his plate, and he's no doubt putting pressure on himself.
Oso doing that tells me a lot about his character and his leadership qualities. He's been through it too, struggling to gain a foothold as a freshman.
If Ben is here long term he's going to be a handful for this league.
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I'm sure Ben wants to play more, and play better than he did. Yesterday the game seemed too fast for him. Shaka has alluded to it, but I've heard he really struggled with homesickness earlier in the year. There's a lot on his plate, and he's no doubt putting pressure on himself.
Oso doing that tells me a lot about his character and his leadership qualities. He's been through it too, struggling to gain a foothold as a freshman.
If Ben is here long term he's going to be a handful for this league.
Aside from any personal issues like homesickness or whatever, Ben needs to play with much more focus and tenacity than he has shown in most games. That turnover yesterday was really lazy and sloppy resulting in Ben getting yanked from the game. Ben obviously has decent size, mobility and skills but he really needs to toughen up and play hard all the time.
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“Don’t even think about writing a letter tonight, bro”
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Leading.
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Ben needs 2 years of weight training, right now to soft. Shaka plays him a little out of position, more of a 3 then a 4 or 5. Against certain teams he is a mismatch. Since he can hit the three he will become valuable in the future. Add some muscle and he will be fine.
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If Ben stays, in two years he will be a stretch 4-5 and a match up nightmare. I am picturing him doing what Oso does now, only with 3 pt. range
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L
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Aside from any personal issues like homesickness or whatever, Ben needs to play with much more focus and tenacity than he has shown in most games. That turnover yesterday was really lazy and sloppy resulting in Ben getting yanked from the game. Ben obviously has decent size, mobility and skills but he really needs to toughen up and play hard all the time.
This is a little over the top. Ben has played hard when's he's played. Crap happens, yesterday's turnover is something that would happen maybe 1 out of 100 times Ben makes that play. Hope to see Ben get some extended run in future games where we are in control.
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This is a little over the top. Ben has played hard when's he's played. Crap happens, yesterday's turnover is something that would happen maybe 1 out of 100 times Ben makes that play. Hope to see Ben get some extended run in future games where we are in control.
Maybe so, but Shaka certainly had a quick hook after that play.
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It was that….and the foul on the and 1 10 seconds later.
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IMHO Ben Gold needs to start playing like he is 6-11".
Currently he is playing like he is 6'-0".
Dude, you are the tallest player on the court. Play like it!
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IMHO Ben Gold needs to start playing like he is 6-11".
Currently he is playing like he is 6'-0".
Dude, you are the tallest player on the court. Play like it!
He played 3 minutes yesterday and had a block. He's a pretty strong paint presence defensively but Oso is just so good. Might see Gold get more playing time with Oso if he's going to get minutes.
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If Ben stays, in two years he will be a stretch 4-5 and a match up nightmare. I am picturing him doing what Oso does now, only with 3 pt. range
I don’t think he’s a 5 at all. Stretch 4 sure, but he has so much bounce I see him more as a wing than a 5.
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IMHO Ben Gold needs to start playing like he is 6-11".
Currently he is playing like he is 6'-0".
Dude, you are the tallest player on the court. Play like it!
Except he blocks shots at a rate 2x Oso. So. There’s that. Quite frankly, I think Shaka has it wrong and should be playing Joplin and Ben in an inverse fashion.
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The problem with Gold is that it is all way too fast for him. I doubt he played anywhere near this speed in New Zealand.
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The problem with Gold is that it is all way too fast for him. I doubt he played anywhere near this speed in New Zealand.
This has been my take also. The question is can he adjust and learn to play faster? I sure hope so.
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The problem with Gold is that it is all way too fast for him. I doubt he played anywhere near this speed in New Zealand.
I disagree that "it is all way too fast for him," but I agree that he didn't play competition at this speed in New Zealand or as part of their National team. However, Gold is fleeter of foot than Jop, though probably not as strong.
I guess as Goose mentioned in the Joplin thread, if our biggest worry is about David Joplin (and I'll add Ben Gold), we are in fantastic shape as they both are very good prospects in different ways.
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If Ben stays, in two years he will be a stretch 4-5 and a match up nightmare. I am picturing him doing what Oso does now, only with 3 pt. range
Agree 100% Tower. I look forward to Ben’s development and I think next year he will show considerable development. Two years from now, look out. The kid has God given talent and height.
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I disagree that "it is all way too fast for him," but I agree that he didn't play competition at this speed in New Zealand or as part of their National team. However, Gold is fleeter of foot than Jop, though probably not as strong.
I guess as Goose mentioned in the Joplin thread, if our biggest worry is about David Joplin (and I'll add Ben Gold), we are in fantastic shape as they both are very good prospects in different ways.
It’s not that Gold’s not fast, it just looks like he is a half second behind. A lot of freshmen go through that.
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Ben Gold has shown repeatedly that he's a good player who helps this team win. He has shown more than Oso as a freshman. Gold will grow with weight training and game experience to be a great Warrior. We are lucky to have him.
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Ben has been mostly solid in limited time. He’s a freshman big. What were peoples actual expectations of him this year?
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Ben has been mostly solid in limited time. He’s a freshman big. What were peoples actual expectations of him this year?
To play like New Zealand Larry Bird
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“ Hey Ben…..I know you’re going through a tough patch right now…….I’ve been there…..but keep your chin up…..I didn’t play as a freshman either and 2 years later ……here I am number 15 in TRanks player of the year rankings! “
https://barttorvik.com/poy.php
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15??? WTH?
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To play like New Zealand Larry Bird
He reminds me more of a dash of Harry froling blended with equal parts of Henry and Wally ellenson
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Hope Ben stays and gets comfortable here - he will be a solid player
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He's a freshmen big...getting meaningful minutes...on a top 20 team. Future is bright.
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IMHO Ben Gold needs to start playing like he is 6-11".
Currently he is playing like he is 6'-0".
Dude, you are the tallest player on the court. Play like it!
As noted on Scoop: Shaka only uses “Dude” if you’re playing like a future star, aka Chase. So if he says this in upcoming years, it means our 6’11” stud is having an off night in a monster season! I’ll take that.
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This was posted by Silver Warrior on Dodds board and I think he hits the nail on the head:
For the record, Ben has made 5 of 10 treys in BE games. Can't do much better than that. He's only 2 of 6 on two-pointers, but one of his misses was a bunny. Had he put that one down, he'd also be shooting 50% on two-pointers. His efg% is 59.4% in our 10 BE games, and his Offensive Rating is a respectable 108.1. He's played a total of 63 minutes in our 10 BE games, and he has 3 turnovers, but his Turnover Rate in those games is high - 18.6%. Still, it seems every time has commits a turnover (again, only 3 in 10 games) he's yanked at the next stoppage in play and might not even get back in the game.
By the way, Ben has 9 blocks in 10 games (only 63 minutes total). That's pretty damn good. He's not a very good rebounder at this point, but he's a tough kid. He doesn't back down from any of the 5s he's faced despite giving up anywhere from 25-50 pounds against most of the 5s he's matched up with.
In our last four games Ben has played a total of 14 minutes (3.5 mpg). Against Xavier, he played 3 minutes. In those 3 minutes he had 2 rebounds and 2 blocks, but he didn't get back in the game.
Ben hasn't hit a wall. If anything, he's playing better than he did in the non-con games. But he's behind Oso and OMax and Joplin. There are times, quite a few times actually, when I wish Joplin would take a seat on the bench and let Ben get a few more minutes.
In our 10 BE games, Joplin's Offensive Rating is a sub-par 96.1, and his efg is a paltry 44.8%. He's shooting only 28.9% on threes. Still, he ranks 3rd in the entire conference in per cent of shots taken while he's in the game - 29.7%. Defensively, he still gets beat off the dribble way too often, and he's a slightly below-average rebounder as his Defensive Rebounding Percentage is a mediocre 13.7% in conference games.
I hope Ben has the patience and perseverance to stick it out at MU. If everyone comes back, he'll still get limited mpg again next season but hopefully more than he's gotten this year.
I can see Ben getting 30 mpg as a junior and being one of MU's best players, probably its best front-court player. It would be nice to see Ben play the 4 down the road, which is almost certainly his best position, and even get some minutes at the 3, probably his second-best position given his ball handling and passing skills.
There are still 10 games left in the regular season. I'd love to see Ben get more minutes than he's been getting because we might very well need him for extended minutes in post-season play.
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Silver Warrior has good points. I would like to see Ben play more as well. He is awfully far from home to be playing the minutes he plays. Makes me worry about him sticking. Hope he does
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Imagine having the offensive efficient ranking we do and thinking "I know what we should change! Play a freshman more!" If we have a couple busts I'm all for it but why fix what ain't broke?
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Silver Warrior has good points. I would like to see Ben play more as well. He is awfully far from home to be playing the minutes he plays. Makes me worry about him sticking. Hope he does
Yea...and his data supports the eyeball test - That Jop has struggled in Big East play.
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Imagine having the offensive efficient ranking we do and thinking "I know what we should change! Play a freshman more!" If we have a couple busts I'm all for it but why fix what ain't broke?
Because we are doing it in spite of this: In our 10 BE games, Joplin's Offensive Rating is a sub-par 96.1, and his efg is a paltry 44.8%. He's shooting only 28.9% on threes. Still, he ranks 3rd in the entire conference in per cent of shots taken while he's in the game - 29.7%.
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This was posted by Silver Warrior on Dodds board and I think he hits the nail on the head:
For the record, Ben has made 5 of 10 treys in BE games. Can't do much better than that. He's only 2 of 6 on two-pointers, but one of his misses was a bunny. Had he put that one down, he'd also be shooting 50% on two-pointers. His efg% is 59.4% in our 10 BE games, and his Offensive Rating is a respectable 108.1. He's played a total of 63 minutes in our 10 BE games, and he has 3 turnovers, but his Turnover Rate in those games is high - 18.6%. Still, it seems every time has commits a turnover (again, only 3 in 10 games) he's yanked at the next stoppage in play and might not even get back in the game.
By the way, Ben has 9 blocks in 10 games (only 63 minutes total). That's pretty damn good. He's not a very good rebounder at this point, but he's a tough kid. He doesn't back down from any of the 5s he's faced despite giving up anywhere from 25-50 pounds against most of the 5s he's matched up with.
In our last four games Ben has played a total of 14 minutes (3.5 mpg). Against Xavier, he played 3 minutes. In those 3 minutes he had 2 rebounds and 2 blocks, but he didn't get back in the game.
Ben hasn't hit a wall. If anything, he's playing better than he did in the non-con games. But he's behind Oso and OMax and Joplin. There are times, quite a few times actually, when I wish Joplin would take a seat on the bench and let Ben get a few more minutes.
In our 10 BE games, Joplin's Offensive Rating is a sub-par 96.1, and his efg is a paltry 44.8%. He's shooting only 28.9% on threes. Still, he ranks 3rd in the entire conference in per cent of shots taken while he's in the game - 29.7%. Defensively, he still gets beat off the dribble way too often, and he's a slightly below-average rebounder as his Defensive Rebounding Percentage is a mediocre 13.7% in conference games.
I hope Ben has the patience and perseverance to stick it out at MU. If everyone comes back, he'll still get limited mpg again next season but hopefully more than he's gotten this year.
I can see Ben getting 30 mpg as a junior and being one of MU's best players, probably its best front-court player. It would be nice to see Ben play the 4 down the road, which is almost certainly his best position, and even get some minutes at the 3, probably his second-best position given his ball handling and passing skills.
There are still 10 games left in the regular season. I'd love to see Ben get more minutes than he's been getting because we might very well need him for extended minutes in post-season play.
I agree with you. Ben has shown more than Oso did as a freshman. I like Ben's game and expect to trend upward each year.
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Because we are doing it in spite of this: In our 10 BE games, Joplin's Offensive Rating is a sub-par 96.1, and his efg is a paltry 44.8%. He's shooting only 28.9% on threes. Still, he ranks 3rd in the entire conference in per cent of shots taken while he's in the game - 29.7%.
Or is Joplin drawing defense away. I don't disagree his numbers aren't eye popping but if people aren't paying much attention to gold and can play better help D with him on the court then that's a problem. I like gold and think he's got a bright future, hopefully here, but still no 1 AdjO doesn't seem like the time to armchair quarterback things.
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Imagine having the offensive efficient ranking we do and thinking "I know what we should change! Play a freshman more!" If we have a couple busts I'm all for it but why fix what ain't broke?
Apparently you're not aware that Ners knows more than every NCAA coach combined!
Oh, and he dunked once.
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I hope Ben plays more down the stretch. I hope this week between games helps him clear his mind and work on the details that will earn him more time.
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He played 3 minutes yesterday and had a block. He's a pretty strong paint presence defensively but Oso is just so good. Might see Gold get more playing time with Oso if he's going to get minutes.
I'm pretty sure he will see more minutes. We've been playing the top teams in the conference and the rotation has been shorter. I expect he might play 8-10 minutes a game over the next 6.
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I'm pretty sure he will see more minutes. We've been playing the top teams in the conference and the rotation has been shorter. I expect he might play 8-10 minutes a game over the next 6.
Yep. And it would be smart to do so. We have been very fortunate with no real injuries. Ben needs to stay as sharp as he can in his role.
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No offense to Silver Eagle, but Ben’s numbers cannot be extrapolated to more minutes.
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Now talk about his dr%
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Now talk about his dr%
Sample size.
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Now talk about his dr%
Not good. Now talk about his Block%.
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So the positives = Ben needs to play more. But the negatives = too small of a sample size to take anything away from it.
I think Shaka's playing the right players. The results speak for themselves.
Ben should be a solid player for us down the road. He's also a freshman getting not many minutes. He isn't the first. He won't be the last. He's far away from home. But he'll be far away from home anywhere he goes in the USA. If he isn't happy, he should move on. Yes it would stink for MU. But the transition was never going to be easy, and if he'd be more happy elsewhere then he should be happy.
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So the positives = Ben needs to play more. But the negatives = too small of a sample size to take anything away from it.
I think Shaka's playing the right players. The results speak for themselves.
Ben should be a solid player for us down the road. He's also a freshman getting not many minutes. He isn't the first. He won't be the last. He's far away from home. But he'll be far away from home anywhere he goes in the USA. If he isn't happy, he should move on. Yes it would stink for MU. But the transition was never going to be easy, and if he'd be more happy elsewhere then he should be happy.
American Samoa isn't that far from home. Idk how their basketball program is though.
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Now talk about his dr%
Jop's FT% is the only number that really matters. Coach Smart recognizes this, thus Jop's minutes.
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Why doesn't Ben play more? 2nd to last on the team in DR% next to 5'8" Sean Jones and last on the team in Turnover Rate (stone hands). Oh, and is last in Offensive Efficiency as result (89).
Let's look at BPR from Evan Miya. 2nd to last. Ben is going to get minutes as these upcoming games should be easier but what he has been doing well (shooting threes), we get elsewhere. Shaka needs some muscle to spell Oso, especially with foul trouble.
https://evanmiya.com/
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I'm really pulling for Ben to start to get a feel for the pace and put more of an imprint on games. The problem is that he's playing smaller than his height. He can't rebound and we need him for that. He does seem quite mobile compared to some guys his size, and he's shown a decent touch from outside too. I'd like to see him paired with Oso and keep Stevie on the bench for a bigger lineup sometimes.
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IMHO, Gold should play exactly much as the coach believes Gold has earned the right to play for a team that the coach has guided to the #1 kenpom offense and #8 overall kenpom ranking.
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Why doesn't Ben play more? 2nd to last on the team in DR% next to 5'8" Sean Jones and last on the team in Turnover Rate (stone hands). Oh, and is last in Offensive Efficiency as result (89).
Let's look at BPR from Evan Miya. 2nd to last. Ben is going to get minutes as these upcoming games should be easier but what he has been doing well (shooting threes), we get elsewhere. Shaka needs some muscle to spell Oso, especially with foul trouble.
https://evanmiya.com/
No per Ners, Shaka don't know ball. Ball have you met Shaka?
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IMHO, Gold should play exactly much as the coach believes Gold has earned the right to play for a team that the coach has guided to the #1 kenpom offense and #8 overall kenpom ranking.
You pretty much hated on Shaka the whole time Wojo was our coach - while fully on board the Wojo hype train. So, I do appreciate your 180 and recognizing Shaka is a great coach.
I've been a massive Shaka fan since his hire. You've posted here that "it's okay to criticize Shaka." So, I make an observation/opinion that I feel Gold should get more PT (in place of Joplin), and you Newstool get your undies in a bunch.
I've posted here this past week, if our biggest issue in the program is who should play more between two great young prospects in Gold and Joplin, we are in great shape.
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You pretty much hated on Shaka the whole time Wojo was our coach - while fully on board the Wojo hype train. So, I do appreciate your 180 and recognizing Shaka is a great coach.
I've been a massive Shaka fan since his hire. You've posted here that "it's okay to criticize Shaka." So, I make an observation/opinion that I feel Gold should get more PT (in place of Joplin), and you Newstool get your undies in a bunch.
I've posted here this past week, if our biggest issue in the program is who should play more between two great young prospects in Gold and Joplin, we are in great shape.
Last I checked, my undies were bunchless and fitting me quite comfortably; we simply have a difference of opinion. I firmly believe it's OK to criticize Shaka and I have done so this season and last. And others were free to disagree with me.
On this particular subject, I choose to trust that our very qualified and highly regarded coach knows more about Ben Gold's readiness to play than those who post on fanboards are. You obviously disagree, and you feel you are more qualified than he is on this subject because of the hours you have spent watching Gold and Joplin at practice.
We definitely agree on your last paragraph, though.
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Last I checked, my undies were bunchless and fitting me quite comfortably; we simply have a difference of opinion. I firmly believe it's OK to criticize Shaka and I have done so this season and last. And others were free to disagree with me.
On this particular subject, I choose to trust that our very qualified and highly regarded coach knows more about Ben Gold's readiness to play than those who post on fanboards are. You obviously disagree, and you feel you are more qualified than he is on this subject because of the hours you have spent watching Gold and Joplin at practice.
We definitely agree on your last paragraph, though.
Just to be clear, Mike - your point is that when anybody, including yourself, criticizes Shaka it’s because he/she feels that he/she is more qualified and knows more in the area of criticism than our very qualified and highly regarded coach. N’est pas?
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Mu82, newsdreams,elonmusk, thanks for posting your thoughts and opinions. I love reading the posts. But please let past transgression remain past! Quit attacking each other and adding snarky comments trying to degrade one another. It makes others afraid to post their opinions, and generally feel uncomfortable. Are we grade schoolers? If you feel the need to attack, do it in PM.
We are all Marquette BB fans. We may not be all BB savants, but we may have opinions. It’s great to experience the debates, but not the petty infighting. Attack the opinion with logic and supporting facts, not with personal attacks. I recently asked the same thing of Dodds on his board after he attacked someone…..
Ok, ok, dismounting from up here.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions. I really enjoy the debates
I hope this years trip to the final four is more enjoyable than the last one!
PS: non of the above applies to nolonger!
Badgers suck!
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Just to be clear, Mike - your point is that when anybody, including yourself, criticizes Shaka it’s because he/she feels that he/she is more qualified and knows more in the area of criticism than our very qualified and highly regarded coach. N’est pas?
Nope.
A personnel decision — in which the coach actually knows who his players are and what they’re capable of giving to the team because he sees them every day in practice — is significantly different from, say, talking about strategy re fouling up 3.
There is no way any of us can know if Ben Gold is capable of consistently performing to a level Shaka considers to be adequate.
That’s my opinion, anyway. It’s ok if others disagree.
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Mu82, newsdreams,elonmusk, thanks for posting your thoughts and opinions. I love reading the posts. But please let past transgression remain past! Quit attacking each other and adding snarky comments trying to degrade one another. It makes others afraid to post their opinions, and generally feel uncomfortable. Are we grade schoolers? If you feel the need to attack, do it in PM.
We are all Marquette BB fans. We may not be all BB savants, but we may have opinions. It’s great to experience the debates, but not the petty infighting. Attack the opinion with logic and supporting facts, not with personal attacks. I recently asked the same thing of Dodds on his board after he attacked someone…..
Ok, ok, dismounting from up here.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and opinions. I really enjoy the debates
I hope this years trip to the final four is more enjoyable than the last one!
PS: non of the above applies to nolonger!
Badgers suck!
You don't know Scoop
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You don't know Scoop
😂
Probably read every single post since 2006.
I know it well!
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You don't know Scoop
Oh, and season ticket holder since 1986.
And I cried when Rick Mount made that damn shot from the corner! 😂
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Look, Ben will be fine. He is young and athletic. But he's a freshman. Pulling back on his minutes at this point in the season is fine.
As long as he can get past the distance he is from home he will be starting in two years.
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Exactly.
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Look, Ben will be fine. He is young and athletic. But he's a freshman. Pulling back on his minutes at this point in the season is fine.
As long as he can get past the distance he is from home he will be starting in two years.
Exactly
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My issue is I think Ben is better than Jop—better shooter, better team defender, better individual defender, more athletic, higher motor, appears to have a higher bb iq but I’m not sold on that one yet, better rebounder maybe. Jop has made some big shots, if Ben had Jops shooter mentality, he’d have made some, too. Jop has also made some terrible TOs and stays in. I’m squarely off the Jop bandwagon, so I fully understand I’m speaking in an extreme. Perhaps Shaka is using this year to really build up Jop (he has shown signs of being capable of improving) so Jop is a major contributor next year. Shaka is far smarter than I am as are more intimately knowledgeable scoopers, so while I’m not a Jop game fan, I am certain my opinion is worth nada. Oh, and play Chase more. He’s better than both.
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21 Jump
I am very high on Gold and think he might still play a role before this season is over. That being said, Joplin has been a big part of our success and he needs to play. He is going to play a big role next year and I think plays a bit into his playing time. Long term, I am extremely bullish on Gold. I think he will change the offense in a different way than Oso has, but it will be a big part of the offense down the road. Keep the faith on Joplin, IMO he will be a game changing player (for the good) and an important part of team success.
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My issue is I think Ben is better than Jop—better shooter, better team defender, better individual defender, more athletic, higher motor, appears to have a higher bb iq but I’m not sold on that one yet, better rebounder maybe.
But Gold isn't a better shooter. And he's not even close to being a better rebounder. Sure there may be some defensive upside, but he's getting tossed like a rag doll out there now.
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Thinking that Ben is more athletic then jop.... I have one question. What sport have you been watching?
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Gold is more athletic.
Joplin is a significantly better shooter, and does it on more difficult shots. Joplin is a way better rebounder. And those are the two things that this team needs the most. They both turn the ball over too much.
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Gold is more athletic.
Yep. The difference is really striking when they put the ball on the deck. Ben's significantly quicker.
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Ben is very athletic. Talks about him playing on the national rugby team or the Olympic track team. Just like Keeyan.
Patience. It is a virtue.
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21 Jump
I am very high on Gold and think he might still play a role before this season is over. That being said, Joplin has been a big part of our success and he needs to play. He is going to play a big role next year and I think plays a bit into his playing time. Long term, I am extremely bullish on Gold. I think he will change the offense in a different way than Oso has, but it will be a big part of the offense down the road. Keep the faith on Joplin, IMO he will be a game changing player (for the good) and an important part of team success.
I’m keeping the faith, Goose, as I pay attention to you and other very knowledgeable posters. I was almost on the bandwagon before last game reading about certain stats and perceptions, but I just couldn’t get there after rewatching last game. I fully realize (and hope) I could be wrong about Jop. I admit, I probably put too much emphasis on team defense, efficiency, and decision making, as in order to win we need to score more. Joplin can score in bunches at times.
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Ben is very athletic. Talks about him playing on the national rugby team or the Olympic track team. Just like Keeyan.
Patience. It is a virtue.
after the All Blacks recent international season they'll take anyone to turn it around
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Still feel like the game is a half step to fast for Gold, which is fine for a true Freshman. I wince a little every time he drives, feels a little unnatural right now. His role is a catch and shoot guy and keep the ball moving on offense and he plays that role fine.
I feel like the ball has a tendency to stick in Joplin's hands when he gets it and causes him to force things sometimes. However, given how Shaka reeled Kam in earlier in the season after some of his moon shots, I'm assuming the Shaka is okay with Joplin taking many of the shots that he does. His role is instant offense off the bench and he plays that role fine, even if his defense could improve.
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Still feel like the game is a half step to fast for Gold, which is fine for a true Freshman. I wince a little every time he drives, feels a little unnatural right now. His role is a catch and shoot guy and keep the ball moving on offense and he plays that role fine.
I feel like the ball has a tendency to stick in Joplin's hands when he gets it and causes him to force things sometimes. However, given how Shaka reeled Kam in earlier in the season after some of his moon shots, I'm assuming the Shaka is okay with Joplin taking many of the shots that he does. His role is instant offense off the bench and he plays that role fine, even if his defense could improve.
I think this is all valid. Question, do you think the game is too fast for Joplin, too?
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I think this is all valid. Question, do you think the game is too fast for Joplin, too?
I wouldn't say "too fast", but it's certainly not as slow as it is for TKO or Oso.
I think Jop knows that he's not the best defender and therefore has the mindset that he has to make up for it on the offensive end, which can lead to a quick trigger.
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21 Jump
I am very high on Gold and think he might still play a role before this season is over. That being said, Joplin has been a big part of our success and he needs to play. He is going to play a big role next year and I think plays a bit into his playing time. Long term, I am extremely bullish on Gold. I think he will change the offense in a different way than Oso has, but it will be a big part of the offense down the road. Keep the faith on Joplin, IMO he will be a game changing player (for the good) and an important part of team success.
Goose - I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded. I'll add, Joplin was a Shaka recruit/one of Shaka's guys. As Kolek said on the recent podcast, when the Head Coach is your lead recruiter, you are going to get a longer leash. Shaka sees the potential of Jop, and is investing into that this year. As another poster mentioned, Gold is in a role similar to what Jop had last year.
That aside, Ben's freshman Conference only numbers thus far are substantially better than what Jop put up last year. And, though a much smaller sample size, Gold's conference only numbers are significantly better than Jop's this season.
My biggest "beef" with Shaka on Gold was during the Hall game, while we were up 15ish Ben had a bad/careless turnover as he dribbled the ball into the front court. I don't think you build confidence in a player when you yank him after that kind of mistake. So while Shaka has been creating a highlight reel of plays for Ben this season, that he sends to him, to build his confidence - I think that gets undone some when you hook the player after a mistake he doesn't make 99 time out of 100 making that same play.
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Goose - I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded. I'll add, Joplin was a Shaka recruit/one of Shaka's guys. As Kolek said on the recent podcast, when the Head Coach is your lead recruiter, you are going to get a longer leash. Shaka sees the potential of Jop, and is investing into that this year. As another poster mentioned, Gold is in a role similar to what Jop had last year.
That aside, Ben's freshman Conference only numbers thus far are substantially better than what Jop put up last year. And, though a much smaller sample size, Gold's conference only numbers are significantly better than Jop's this season.
My biggest "beef" with Shaka on Gold was during the Hall game, while we were up 15ish Ben had a bad/careless turnover as he dribbled the ball into the front court. I don't think you build confidence in a player when you yank him after that kind of mistake. So while Shaka has been creating a highlight reel of plays for Ben this season, that he sends to him, to build his confidence - I think that gets undone some when you hook the player after a mistake he doesn't make 99 time out of 100 making that same play.
Ben didn't just commit a turnover. He committed a dumb foul right after. He wasn't mentally prepared.
And I don't think Shaka playing Joplin ahead of Gold right now has anything to do with who recruited him. He's simply a better player at this point. Statistically that's pretty obvious.
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Goose - I think you hit the nail on the head with the bolded. I'll add, Joplin was a Shaka recruit/one of Shaka's guys. As Kolek said on the recent podcast, when the Head Coach is your lead recruiter, you are going to get a longer leash. Shaka sees the potential of Jop, and is investing into that this year. As another poster mentioned, Gold is in a role similar to what Jop had last year.
That aside, Ben's freshman Conference only numbers thus far are substantially better than what Jop put up last year. And, though a much smaller sample size, Gold's conference only numbers are significantly better than Jop's this season.
My biggest "beef" with Shaka on Gold was during the Hall game, while we were up 15ish Ben had a bad/careless turnover as he dribbled the ball into the front court. I don't think you build confidence in a player when you yank him after that kind of mistake. So while Shaka has been creating a highlight reel of plays for Ben this season, that he sends to him, to build his confidence - I think that gets undone some when you hook the player after a mistake he doesn't make 99 time out of 100 making that same play.
Well said
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I wouldn't say "too fast", but it's certainly not as slow as it is for TKO or Oso.
I think Jop knows that he's not the best defender and therefore has the mindset that he has to make up for it on the offensive end, which can lead to a quick trigger.
Interesting thought about having to make up for his lack of defense. I think Jop could significantly improve his defensive impact by being less of a ball watcher and hedging a half step in every defensive situation. He constantly gets beat off the dribble, beat to spots, to loose balls and long rebounds. He is not quick nor is he going to really out athlete anyone, so hedge a little, use your size. It’s a mental thing, a commitment thing.
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Shaka's got a top 10 KenPom and Torvik team, a top 15 (coaches poll) team, and a real shot to win a Big East regular season title this season. If he's picking a guy's playing time based on how that player might need to develop for next year, that's a concern. All hands should be on deck this season.
We were up 20 and Gold made two bad plays. They cut the lead to 15 with 10 minutes left. Shaka made the right move by getting guys back in who could steady the play and make sure Seton Hall wasn't going to get momentum and suddenly we're in a game with 8 minutes left, trying to get momentum back on our side.
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My biggest "beef" with Shaka on Gold was during the Hall game, while we were up 15ish Ben had a bad/careless turnover as he dribbled the ball into the front court. I don't think you build confidence in a player when you yank him after that kind of mistake. So while Shaka has been creating a highlight reel of plays for Ben this season, that he sends to him, to build his confidence - I think that gets undone some when you hook the player after a mistake he doesn't make 99 time out of 100 making that same play.
I'm guessing that Shaka looks at it as holding a player accountable. Shaka seems to have an excellent way with players -- knows when to pat them on the back, knows when to kick them in the butt. I think back to last year when he benched Kolek, benched Elliott, and benched Morsell on several occasions. Again, I'm gonna lean toward trusting Shaka on this one because he knows Ben Gold best, or at least I hope he does. If it turns out that Shaka doesn't actually know which levers to pull on each player, then maybe all of us proshaks are overestimating his coaching ability. I don't think that's the case, though.
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He gowne, green weenie, next man up aina
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He's a freshmen big...getting meaningful minutes...on a top 20 team. Future is bright.
This...
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I wouldn't say "too fast", but it's certainly not as slow as it is for TKO or Oso.
I think Jop knows that he's not the best defender and therefore has the mindset that he has to make up for it on the offensive end, which can lead to a quick trigger.
I'm not sure I would call it trying to "make up for his defense"...I think Jop is a shooter first, second, and third. Unlike our last first, second, and third shooter Rowsey, however, I think Joplin is actively trying to get better on the defensive end.
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Ben didn't just commit a turnover. He committed a dumb foul right after. He wasn't mentally prepared.
And I don't think Shaka playing Joplin ahead of Gold right now has anything to do with who recruited him. He's simply a better player at this point. Statistically that's pretty obvious.
LOL. Not mentally prepared. How exactly does one get "mentally prepared." Does the mentally prepared player never commit a foul or turnover? I mean Joplin fouls at a higher rate than Ben.
Please do share your stats that illustrate Joplin is obviously a better player. Are you going to tout Joplin's second worst 44.8% eFG during conference play? Or the 4.8 fouls/40 committed during conference play? But, Joplin rebounding at 13.7 DR during conference play, versus Gold at 9.9. That aside, I kind of like Gold's 15.6% Block percentage during conference play to Jop's 1.7%.
Sample size of course matters, but I don't it's some kind of slam dunk case that Joplin has been magnificent during conference play.
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LOL. Not mentally prepared. How exactly does one get "mentally prepared." Does the mentally prepared player never commit a foul or turnover? I mean Joplin fouls at a higher rate than Ben.
Please do share your stats that illustrate Joplin is obviously a better player. Are you going to tout Joplin's second worst 44.8% eFG during conference play? Or the 4.8 fouls/40 committed during conference play? But, Joplin rebounding at 13.7 DR during conference play, versus Gold at 9.9. That aside, I kind of like Gold's 15.6% Block percentage during conference play to Jop's 1.7%.
Sample size of course matters, but I don't it's some kind of slam dunk case that Joplin has been magnificent during conference play.
It comes as no surprise that you don't understand what it means to be mentally prepared. It's pretty simple - don't commit easily avoidable fouls and turnovers when you are put into a game, because you are going to get pulled.
Joplin is statistically a better shooter and rebounder. Sure, Gold has more blocks. BFD.
Gold has a higher upside, but he's not there yet.
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Shaka's got a top 10 KenPom and Torvik team, a top 15 (coaches poll) team, and a real shot to win a Big East regular season title this season. If he's picking a guy's playing time based on how that player might need to develop for next year, that's a concern. All hands should be on deck this season.
We were up 20 and Gold made two bad plays. They cut the lead to 15 with 10 minutes left. Shaka made the right move by getting guys back in who could steady the play and make sure Seton Hall wasn't going to get momentum and suddenly we're in a game with 8 minutes left, trying to get momentum back on our side.
Fair.
I'm guessing that Shaka looks at it as holding a player accountable. Shaka seems to have an excellent way with players -- knows when to pat them on the back, knows when to kick them in the butt. I think back to last year when he benched Kolek, benched Elliott, and benched Morsell on several occasions. Again, I'm gonna lean toward trusting Shaka on this one because he knows Ben Gold best, or at least I hope he does. If it turns out that Shaka doesn't actually know which levers to pull on each player, then maybe all of us proshaks are overestimating his coaching ability. I don't think that's the case, though.
And fair.
Once again goes back to: It's a great sign of where we are as a team/program if the seemingly only debate that exists on this team is: Should Ben Gold get some of David Joplin's minutes (both of them being talented, valuable prospects for the team and program going forward.)
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I'm not sure I would call it trying to "make up for his defense"...I think Jop is a shooter first, second, and third. Unlike our last first, second, and third shooter Rowsey, however, I think Joplin is actively trying to get better on the defensive end.
Rowsey was an awesome passer. I loved watching him play offensively. Yes, he loved to shoot. But he could also get to different spots on the court that collapsed the defense and opened up good shots for his teammates.
But yeah. He was more interested in talking than defending. Which was also fun to watch sometimes.
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It comes as no surprise that you don't understand what it means to be mentally prepared. It's pretty simple - don't commit easily avoidable fouls and turnovers when you are put into a game, because you are going to get pulled.
Joplin is statistically a better shooter and rebounder. Sure, Gold has more blocks. BFD.
Gold has a higher upside, but he's not there yet.
crap happens during a game. It's not a lack of "mental preparation." Like here's how you'd explain mental preparation for Gold's play that got him pulled: Hey, I'm going to dribble this ball into the front court and make a conscious decision and extra effort to ensure when I pick up my dribble I don't fumble the ball away.
Btw - Regarding Gold's careless foul and or fouls - I suspect if Joplin was assigned to play out of position too and guard the other team's 5, it would be a foul fest and bucket fest for the opposition.
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Yep. As I said, it's not surprising that you have no idea what "mental preparation" means.
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Yep. As I said, it's not surprising that you have no idea what "mental preparation" means.
Please Sultan, do regal Scoop with your genius and explain what "mental preparation" exercises a basketball player can engage in that will result in turnover and foul-free basketball. I look forward to hearing your suggestions. Btw - Not surprising you've offered nothing but a weak insult attempt.
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Once again goes back to: It's a great sign of where we are as a team/program if the seemingly only debate that exists on this team is: Should Ben Gold get some of David Joplin's minutes (both of them being talented, valuable prospects for the team and program going forward.)
Yep. And a coupla months ago, it was: Should Sean Jones get more of Mitchell's minutes or even start over Stevie?
Shaka didn't think so; I think most of us would agree that Shaka got it right.
And believe me, I understand your concern with the fast hooks. It can demoralize a player if it happens enough, and I'd hate to see Gold get so demoralized that he bolts after this year. In reality, though, I'm not overly concerned about it because I trust Shaka on player relationships more than any coach we've had in eons, maybe since Al.
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Please Sultan, do regal Scoop with your genius and explain what "mental preparation" exercises a basketball player can engage in that will result in turnover and foul-free basketball. I look forward to hearing your suggestions. Btw - Not surprising you've offered nothing but a weak insult attempt.
I did.
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I did.
No. You really didn't.
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No. You really didn't.
Not surprising you don't understand the English language either.
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Rowsey was an awesome passer. I loved watching him play offensively. Yes, he loved to shoot. But he could also get to different spots on the court that collapsed the defense and opened up good shots for his teammates.
But yeah. He was more interested in talking than defending. Which was also fun to watch sometimes.
Absolutely, I loved watching Rowdy on the offensive side of the floor. But if ever there was a player that tried to make up for his defensive deficiencies with his offense, it was him.
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Shaka just plays mind games
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I think it was because when he got his chance, he played pretty poorly. Just a teammate lifting up another.
So he was upset about his playing time.
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So he was upset about his playing time.
Upset about trying his absolute hardest and that his efforts, ultimately, were a disappointment. It's not easy letting down your teammates.
I'm sure that feeling is familiar to a lot of people on MUScoop. Especially those still living in their parent's basements.
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So he was upset about his playing time.
Upset Jop gets more playing time. Has Shaka lost this team?!?!?
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One of the many things that has impressed me about Coach Smart in his 1 2/3 seasons at MU is how he has empowered his freshmen to play fearlessly.
One of the great scoop traditions is to complain and debate about playing time for freshmen. Jimmy Butler is a wasted scholarship, play magic Dawson more,
Dawson Garcia less, Theo was playing his best ball, why sit him after 12 straight good minutes. This is a continuation of that tradition.
I like Ben. I think he is very talented and will be very good. I would like him to play a few more minutes just so that Oso doesn't wear out. I hope this week gave him an opportunity to get ready to contribute more down the stretch. I think MU will need him.
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One of the many things that has impressed me about Coach Smart in his 1 2/3 seasons at MU is how he has empowered his freshmen to play fearlessly.
One of the great scoop traditions is to complain and debate about playing time for freshmen. Jimmy Butler is a wasted scholarship, play magic Dawson more,
Dawson Garcia less, Theo was playing his best ball, why sit him after 12 straight good minutes. This is a continuation of that tradition.
I like Ben. I think he is very talented and will be very good. I would like him to play a few more minutes just so that Oso doesn't wear out. I hope this week gave him an opportunity to get ready to contribute more down the stretch. I think MU will need him.
You could have shortened the sentence with the bolded and it would have been much stronger. ;D
Agree that Shaka gives the freshmen a chance and hope that Ben can "contribute more down the stretch". I just think it needs to be in games where we do not have to worry about every point. I like Ben and he needs time on the court to show what he can do, but he scares me in games with tough opponents.
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You're not wrong.
But I do feel offended. ::)
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One of the many things that has impressed me about Coach Smart in his 1 2/3 seasons at MU is how he has empowered his freshmen to play fearlessly.
One of the great scoop traditions is to complain and debate about playing time for freshmen. Jimmy Butler is a wasted scholarship, play magic Dawson more,
Dawson Garcia less, Theo was playing his best ball, why sit him after 12 straight good minutes. This is a continuation of that tradition.
I like Ben. I think he is very talented and will be very good. I would like him to play a few more minutes just so that Oso doesn't wear out. I hope this week gave him an opportunity to get ready to contribute more down the stretch. I think MU will need him.
I'm simply not very concerned about Oso wearing out. There are just so many long time-outs in college games, especially in the last few minutes of close games (exactly when one would think players would "wear out"). Guys are getting far more rest during that stretch of any typical close game than they're playing basketball.
I'll be pretty surprised if Gold gets what either of us would call "significant" playing time in most non-blowout games for the rest of the season, so I guess we'll get an opportunity to see which of us is right on this one.