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Author Topic: Bracketology Thread 2023  (Read 49454 times)

The Lens

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #175 on: January 27, 2023, 09:18:53 AM »

The battle for the Magic Dawson Trophy.

Somebody wanted to die on the John Dawson hill, that will always be one of my favorite Scoop tropes of all time.
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Mu8891

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #176 on: January 27, 2023, 09:57:12 AM »
MU v. Seattle or Liberty ?? YES !!

let’s keep winning and get a low major in the 1st round

brewcity77

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #177 on: January 27, 2023, 10:04:22 AM »
If you don't mind me asking, who?  The first four out on your last bracket were Wake Forest with an NET in the 70s, Penn St a sub .500 B10 team (with a down B10 this year) that just got blown out by a good but not great Rutgers team, Kentucky with their one Q1 win (even if it truly is one of the best wins that anyone has this season), and Southern Cal who has an NET in the 60s and only one real quality win. 

I can see the argument for any of them, given this years bubble, but they all have very legitimate reasons that they should be left out.

When comparing them to other teams on the bubble, I really like Penn State and Kentucky to be in. I wasn't that high on USC until yesterday, but they deserve a long look. I also like Mississippi State (though maybe biased because of how they played us) as a team I'd like to see in the field.

I'm not saying the bubble teams are great teams, but it feels like when you get to that last 8 in, there's 12-15 teams with legit claims to those spots. Reminding me of 2018, when the top of the NIT felt very strong.
When asked how he felt about Marquette being picked to finish ninth in the Big East, Tyler Kolek only had two words:
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #178 on: January 27, 2023, 10:14:43 AM »

The battle for the Magic Dawson Trophy.

Trap game
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Its DJOver

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #179 on: January 27, 2023, 10:19:20 AM »
When comparing them to other teams on the bubble, I really like Penn State and Kentucky to be in. I wasn't that high on USC until yesterday, but they deserve a long look. I also like Mississippi State (though maybe biased because of how they played us) as a team I'd like to see in the field.

I'm not saying the bubble teams are great teams, but it feels like when you get to that last 8 in, there's 12-15 teams with legit claims to those spots. Reminding me of 2018, when the top of the NIT felt very strong.

Sure, if you compare them to other bubble teams.  My point was that the entire bubble seems soft, so much so that a team that is 2 games over .500 overall, 2-6 in conference play, with an NET in the mid 60's, with all 3 of the Q1 wins very borderline, is still in consideration as the 4th team out per bracketmatrix, and one of your last four in (Oklahoma, my original "how are they on the bubble team").  Although I will admit that since your last bracket they have lost twice more and I don't expect to see them in your bracket that gets released (tomorrow?).

Maybe TAMU was right, and that's really all it takes to be in consideration for an at large, you guys do more bracketology work than I do, but there seem to be pretty glaring holes for most of the teams listed between NCAA 11 and NIT 2.

Edit:  I guess we just might be looking at it two different ways.  If your point is that there is little separation between NCAA 11 and NIT 2, I would agree.  My point however, is that even the teams currently project in on the 11 line have sufficient reasons to be left out.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 10:21:46 AM by Its DJOver »

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #180 on: January 27, 2023, 10:30:11 AM »
Sure, if you compare them to other bubble teams.  My point was that the entire bubble seems soft, so much so that a team that is 2 games over .500 overall, 2-6 in conference play, with an NET in the mid 60's, with all 3 of the Q1 wins very borderline, is still in consideration as the 4th team out per bracketmatrix, and one of your last four in (Oklahoma, my original "how are they on the bubble team").  Although I will admit that since your last bracket they have lost twice more and I don't expect to see them in your bracket that gets released (tomorrow?).

Maybe TAMU was right, and that's really all it takes to be in consideration for an at large, you guys do more bracketology work than I do, but there seem to be pretty glaring holes for most of the teams listed between NCAA 11 and NIT 2.

Edit:  I guess we just might be looking at it two different ways.  If your point is that there is little separation between NCAA 11 and NIT 2, I would agree.  My point however, is that even the teams currently project in on the 11 line have sufficient reasons to be left out.

I know the overall point of your question is OU's resume at this point in time and if something like that is worthy.

But I will say, in regards to OU it really dont matter. Because if you look at their remaining schedule its truly gonna sort itself out down the stretch. And most likely not in a good way.
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

Elonsmusk

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #181 on: January 27, 2023, 12:04:29 PM »
Somebody wanted to die on the John Dawson hill, that will always be one of my favorite Scoop tropes of all time.

No doubt.  I was proud to die on the John Dawson hill.  Sure as hell beat the alternative of dying on the Derrick Wilson hill.  To this day I've never seen a high major PG disrespected by the opposition's defense as much as was the case with Derrick Wilson.  I mean I got it with Buzz maxing Derrick's minutes as Buzz was giving MU a big F-You on the way out the door.  But Wojo??  LMAO.  That was all the evidence needed to realize Wojo was an absolute idiot.
 

wadesworld

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #182 on: January 27, 2023, 12:09:30 PM »
No doubt.  I was proud to die on the John Dawson hill.  Sure as hell beat the alternative of dying on the Derrick Wilson hill.  To this day I've never seen a high major PG disrespected by the opposition's defense as much as was the case with Derrick Wilson.  I mean I got it with Buzz maxing Derrick's minutes as Buzz was giving MU a big F-You on the way out the door.  But Wojo??  LMAO.  That was all the evidence needed to realize Wojo was an absolute idiot.

So Buzz decided he'd rather stick a middle finger in the administration's nose and go to wherever would take him as opposed to doing as well as he could in that season and then having the top jobs come calling?

Checks out.

Edited to include: Buzz knew he had a stud in John "Magic" Dawson so he sat the kid knowing he would be moving on from MU and he wanted to stick it to the administration, hurting the chances that said stud might follow him to his next job?

Again, checks out.

The guy did make Honorable Mention in the Big South...impressive!  He even played in the G League, because the level of play at that time was absolutely elite!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2023, 12:15:07 PM by wadesworld »
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #183 on: January 27, 2023, 12:27:17 PM »
John Dawson sucked
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #184 on: January 27, 2023, 12:44:57 PM »
So Buzz decided he'd rather stick a middle finger in the administration's nose and go to wherever would take him as opposed to doing as well as he could in that season and then having the top jobs come calling?

Checks out.

Edited to include: Buzz knew he had a stud in John "Magic" Dawson so he sat the kid knowing he would be moving on from MU and he wanted to stick it to the administration, hurting the chances that said stud might follow him to his next job?

Again, checks out.

The guy did make Honorable Mention in the Big South...impressive!  He even played in the G League, because the level of play at that time was absolutely elite!


This is the narrative Elon must build to convince everyone that John Dawson was better than Derrick Wilson...even though two division one coaches didn't see it that way.
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MUpugnacity

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #185 on: January 27, 2023, 12:50:51 PM »

This is the narrative Elon must build to convince everyone that John Dawson was better than Derrick Wilson...even though two division one coaches didn't see it that way.

Muscoop stock trading up 10% today on news of a John Dawson vs Derrick Wilson thread hijacking in 2023. 

Elonsmusk

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #186 on: January 27, 2023, 01:02:02 PM »
So Buzz decided he'd rather stick a middle finger in the administration's nose and go to wherever would take him as opposed to doing as well as he could in that season and then having the top jobs come calling?

Checks out.

Edited to include: Buzz knew he had a stud in John "Magic" Dawson so he sat the kid knowing he would be moving on from MU and he wanted to stick it to the administration, hurting the chances that said stud might follow him to his next job?

Again, checks out.

The guy did make Honorable Mention in the Big South...impressive!  He even played in the G League, because the level of play at that time was absolutely elite!

John Dawson sucked


This is the narrative Elon must build to convince everyone that John Dawson was better than Derrick Wilson...even though two division one coaches didn't see it that way.

Like moths to a flame.  It's too easy.  Just as it was being the first Scooper to dump on Wojo 10 games in and tell this board he didn't have it.  And there's no narrative.  If you thought Wojo had any idea as it relates to talent, or playing time allocation that's on you.  The lack of results speak for themselves.  And if you didn't think Buzz mailed it in his last year, that too is on you. 


PGsHeroes32

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #187 on: January 27, 2023, 01:04:42 PM »
"wojo had no idea related to talent"


Woof.

Wed have no Kam, Oso or Stevie thats forsure.
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #188 on: January 27, 2023, 01:17:32 PM »
Muscoop stock trading up 10% today on news of a John Dawson vs Derrick Wilson thread hijacking in 2023.

SEC requiring restatement of the books.

BM1090

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #189 on: January 27, 2023, 01:32:57 PM »
Like moths to a flame.  It's too easy.  Just as it was being the first Scooper to dump on Wojo 10 games in and tell this board he didn't have it.  And there's no narrative.  If you thought Wojo had any idea as it relates to talent, or playing time allocation that's on you.  The lack of results speak for themselves.  And if you didn't think Buzz mailed it in his last year, that too is on you.

Wojo was an excellent talent evaluator. He had 5 players get cups of coffee in the NBA (Jamal, Sam, Markus, Henry, Justin. Not counting Juan or Deonte). He recruited 3 of the 6 best players on a team that's currently #8 in KenPom.

He had a ton of good pieces. He just had no idea how to put those pieces together.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #190 on: January 27, 2023, 01:36:39 PM »
Wojo was an excellent talent evaluator. He had 5 players get cups of coffee in the NBA (Jamal, Sam, Markus, Henry, Justin. Not counting Juan or Deonte). He recruited 3 of the 6 best players on a team that's currently #8 in KenPom.

He had a ton of good pieces. He just had no idea how to put those pieces together.

Correct.

Goose

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #191 on: January 27, 2023, 01:47:07 PM »
Virtually every top level coach is a good judge of talent, Wojo included. That said, not for one second do I believe Oso would be the player he is today if he had played for Wojo. Plus, IMO Kam might be the leading scorer but he would likely not have added going to the basket. He would be chucking 30 footers all day long.

There are hundreds of guys that have talent in college basketball and every coach has guys with talent. Not sour grapes, but I think Oso, Kam and Stevie would have wasted 3-4 years playing for Wojo. Glad he recruited them, but they were hardly 4-5 star recruits.

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #192 on: January 27, 2023, 01:55:22 PM »
Virtually every top level coach is a good judge of talent, Wojo included. That said, not for one second do I believe Oso would be the player he is today if he had played for Wojo. Plus, IMO Kam might be the leading scorer but he would likely not have added going to the basket. He would be chucking 30 footers all day long.

There are hundreds of guys that have talent in college basketball and every coach has guys with talent. Not sour grapes, but I think Oso, Kam and Stevie would have wasted 3-4 years playing for Wojo. Glad he recruited them, but they were hardly 4-5 star recruits.

100% these guys are all better with Shaka. No doubt about that.

But the comment was Wojo didnt know talent. And its blatantly false. He was an excellent recruiter just a blockhead when it mattered.

But the obessive Wojo hate(really its one psycho) at this point if youre an MU fan is crazy. In hindsight having Steve here allowed us to get Shaka a time he wanted to come. Thanks to Steve we have Kam, Oso and Stevie on a top 8 Kenpom team. Those guys are not here without Steve.

Even more specificially look at Shakas Texas class. Bates, Jop, Ellis, Keeyan. Luckily we have 3 of those 4 anyways. But right now which group would you rather have Shakas 4 or Wojos 3???  Wojo clearly found great talent. Considering Shaka has currently developed his 3 much better than the 3 he brought with him

And thats not a knock on those 3 at all. Im one of the people who backs Jop the most and I really think Ellis could surprise if he sticks around. Just saying....

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Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

willie warrior

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #193 on: January 27, 2023, 02:29:15 PM »
"wojo had no idea related to talent"


Woof.

Wed have no Kam, Oso or Stevie thats forsure.
Don't dis on Rita. He is a basketball expert. Just ask him. He will tell you.

panda

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #194 on: January 27, 2023, 02:30:04 PM »
Sure, if you compare them to other bubble teams.  My point was that the entire bubble seems soft, so much so that a team that is 2 games over .500 overall, 2-6 in conference play, with an NET in the mid 60's, with all 3 of the Q1 wins very borderline, is still in consideration as the 4th team out per bracketmatrix, and one of your last four in (Oklahoma, my original "how are they on the bubble team").  Although I will admit that since your last bracket they have lost twice more and I don't expect to see them in your bracket that gets released (tomorrow?).

Maybe TAMU was right, and that's really all it takes to be in consideration for an at large, you guys do more bracketology work than I do, but there seem to be pretty glaring holes for most of the teams listed between NCAA 11 and NIT 2.

Edit:  I guess we just might be looking at it two different ways.  If your point is that there is little separation between NCAA 11 and NIT 2, I would agree.  My point however, is that even the teams currently project in on the 11 line have sufficient reasons to be left out.

but is the bubble the softest its been in years ?

Uncle Rico

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #195 on: January 27, 2023, 02:35:21 PM »
Don't dis on Rita. He is a basketball expert. Just ask him. He will tell you.

I am.  Thanks!
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Its DJOver

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #196 on: January 27, 2023, 02:40:18 PM »
but is the bubble the softest its been in years ?

Can't say without knowing the full history of the bubble.  If MU isn't on it, I usually don't pay attention.

All I know is that Ohio St appears in 49 out of 80 brackets on bracketmatrix, despite being 11-9 overall, 3-6 in the B10, are the only B10 team to lose to Minnesota (at home no less), and should not be projected in the field IMO despite their top 30 NET ranking. A lot of teams near the bubble have similar resumes; good computer numbers with few if any real quality wins and multiple questionable losses. Looking at you Nevada.

MU82

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #197 on: January 27, 2023, 02:54:28 PM »
How 'bout that bracketology, everybody, eh?
BIG EAST CHAMPS!!

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PointWarrior

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #198 on: January 27, 2023, 02:57:50 PM »
Wojo was an excellent talent evaluator. He had 5 players get cups of coffee in the NBA (Jamal, Sam, Markus, Henry, Justin. Not counting Juan or Deonte). He recruited 3 of the 6 best players on a team that's currently #8 in KenPom.

He had a ton of good pieces. He just had no idea how to put those pieces together.


but did Wojo flush for himself?

panda

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Re: Bracketology Thread 2023
« Reply #199 on: January 27, 2023, 03:00:53 PM »
Can't say without knowing the full history of the bubble.  If MU isn't on it, I usually don't pay attention.

All I know is that Ohio St appears in 49 out of 80 brackets on bracketmatrix, despite being 11-9 overall, 3-6 in the B10, are the only B10 team to lose to Minnesota (at home no less), and should not be projected in the field IMO despite their top 30 NET ranking. A lot of teams near the bubble have similar resumes; good computer numbers with few if any real quality wins and multiple questionable losses. Looking at you Nevada.

softest since 2020. although 2019 and 2018 should throw their hats in the ring