MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MU82 on January 01, 2023, 05:19:48 PM
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First day of the New Year ... let's get this going.
The Athletic's Brian Bennett released his first Bracket Watch (actually hit the site a couple days ago), and has Marquette as a 7-seed. Playing SD State in the first round. Tennessee would be the likely next opponent.
Only has 4 BEast teams: UConn, X, Marquette, Creighton. The Provi is among first 4 out.
https://theathletic.com/4038052/2022/12/30/ncaa-tournament-bracket-mock-predictions/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=5846288
Lunardi's most recent came out a few days before that, and he had MU as an 8-seed.
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-2023-march-madness-men-field-predictions
I think we've got a great chance to beat the projections of both Lunardi and Bennett.
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Let’s keep winning and get out of that 8/9 seed game. I really hope they have a good run and get a 6 seed (or better of course)
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So what’s the current consensus?
10 conference wins earns the bid?
Every win beyond that increases the seed.
10 would probably be in the play-in-game or 12/11 seed range.
13+ likely good enough to avoid that 8 seed line barring a first rd conf tourney exit.
15+ would likely earn a top 5 seed.
It always amazes me how much movement these wins or losses have as you get closer to the dance, assuming you manage to earn a bid.
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First day of the New Year ... let's get this going.
The Athletic's Brian Bennett released his first Bracket Watch (actually hit the site a couple days ago), and has Marquette as a 7-seed. Playing SD State in the first round. Tennessee would be the likely next opponent.
Only has 4 BEast teams: UConn, X, Marquette, Creighton. The Provi is among first 4 out.
https://theathletic.com/4038052/2022/12/30/ncaa-tournament-bracket-mock-predictions/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=5846288
Lunardi's most recent came out a few days before that, and he had MU as an 8-seed.
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-2023-march-madness-men-field-predictions
I think we've got a great chance to beat the projections of both Lunardi and Bennett.
We always wind up with a higher seed than Lunardi has us at this time each year. He gives us zero respect so I have nine for him.
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So what’s the current consensus?
10 conference wins earns the bid?
Every win beyond that increases the seed.
10 would probably be in the play-in-game or 12/11 seed range.
13+ likely good enough to avoid that 8 seed line barring a first rd conf tourney exit.
15+ would likely earn a top 5 seed.
It always amazes me how much movement these wins or losses have as you get closer to the dance, assuming you manage to earn a bid.
If we get 10 wins and two of them are against UCONN and XU? Maybe I'm leaning towards 12 BEast wins.
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11-9 would do it. Won’t matter though, this team is better than that.
7 seed at Bracketville before yesterday’s win.
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
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11-9 would do it. Won’t matter though, this team is better than that.
7 seed at Bracketville before yesterday’s win.
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/bracketology/
Yes, 10 could be trouble
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Yes, 10 could be trouble
We’ll never beat a 10-seed
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So what’s the current consensus?
10 conference wins earns the bid?
Every win beyond that increases the seed.
10 would probably be in the play-in-game or 12/11 seed range.
13+ likely good enough to avoid that 8 seed line barring a first rd conf tourney exit.
15+ would likely earn a top 5 seed.
It always amazes me how much movement these wins or losses have as you get closer to the dance, assuming you manage to earn a bid.
We need 11-12 to feel secure, though with the Big East, ACC, Pac-12, and A-10 all down the bubble looks very weak. Three problem with 10 wins is that also means 10 losses, and games against Georgetown, DePaul, St John's, Seton Hall, and Butler are shaping up to be potentially bad losses. Selection is more about who you beat, so you can weather a couple of those, but to truly feel safe I think 9-1 against those 5 should be the goal. Which gets us to at least 11.
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Theres a lot of talk in this thread as if we are a sub par team battling to get in by the skin of our teeth. This team is going to be battling for a 3-4 seed in the ncaa tournament. This isnt your steve wojo coached team. I fully expect this team to go undefeated at home in conference including beating xavier and uconn. Maybe I am biased but this team is a top 15 team in the country and its not really close either. This team would blast the majority of teams ranked 15-25 in the polls.
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You're biased. I think this is probably a 12-13 conference win team. Lose 3/4 to X and UConn. Do well against the rest. Occasional stumble. 20-21 regular season wins gets MU to fringe top 25 and 5-6-7 seed.
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Theres a lot of talk in this thread as if we are a sub par team battling to get in by the skin of our teeth. This team is going to be battling for a 3-4 seed in the ncaa tournament. This isnt your steve wojo coached team. I fully expect this team to go undefeated at home in conference including beating xavier and uconn. Maybe I am biased but this team is a top 15 team in the country and its not really close either. This team would blast the majority of teams ranked 15-25 in the polls.
I'm very bullish on this team but it's going to be hard to get to a 4 seed or higher. Our non-conference was solid but not amazing. The Big East is very down and there aren't that many signature wins to be had. UConn x2, @Creighton, and @X are really the only 4 signature win opportunities left on our schedule. I think we would need to win 3 of 4 of these AND go 9-3 or better in the remaining games to get to the 4 seed line. Certainly possible but it's a very tall ask.
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TAMU
That is a very big ask and I am not betting on getting 3 of 4 in those games. I would be very happy to get two wins and think that is a tough ask. IMO, they need to avoid a bad loss and take care of business at home. I would love to see them be a four seed but think it would take an awful lot to make that happen. There is a lot of basketball to be played and taking care of the games they should win is top priority. Good news, beating UConn, X or Creighton would not be stealing one, just a good win. To me, that is the key, we are getting very close to being over the hump and putting "steal a game" mindset in the rearview mirror.
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I'm very bullish on this team but it's going to be hard to get to a 4 seed or higher. Our non-conference was solid but not amazing. The Big East is very down and there aren't that many signature wins to be had. UConn x2, @Creighton, and @X are really the only 4 signature win opportunities left on our schedule. I think we would need to win 3 of 4 of these AND go 9-3 or better in the remaining games to get to the 4 seed line. Certainly possible but it's a very tall ask.
11-9 likely gets us in. That's probably a 10-seed. Safe, but not spectacular. Each additional win is probably a seed line. So getting to a 4 means going 15-5 or 16-4. Not impossible, but a lofty goal. 3 is probably the ceiling if we win the Big East.
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We’re 3-1 & ppl are talking about 10 or 11 conf wins. Lol.
Wojo ruined us.
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The Lens
They need to keep winning and hopefully that changes the narrative with some fans. Too many are used to MU not getting the job done and it poisoned their perspective.
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They need to keep winning and hopefully that changes the narrative with some fans. Too many are used to MU not getting the job done and it poisoned their perspective.
With how the last few February's have gone I don't blame people for remaining cautiously optimistic.
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MUfan12
I have seen over 50 Februarys of MU basketball, some great, very good, good, bad and ugly, and the last few Februarys mean nothing to me. I am fine with people being cautious or even negative, I just happen to think differently. That is why I said they needed to keep winning to get the cautious fan to jump on the bandwagon.
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10 wins = squarely on the bubble (Dayton or NIT)
11 wins = 10 seed (avoid Dayton 1st Four)
12 wins = 8/9 game
13 wins = 7 seed
14 wins = 6 seed
I'm thinking 13 or 14 wins. 12 would be a mild disappointment.
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MUfan12
I have seen over 50 Februarys of MU basketball, some great, very good, good, bad and ugly, and the last few Februarys mean nothing to me. I am fine with people being cautious or even negative, I just happen to think differently. That is why I said they needed to keep winning to get the cautious fan to jump on the bandwagon.
If I recall the February of 77 was pretty bad/ugly. March not so much.
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First day of the New Year ... let's get this going.
The Athletic's Brian Bennett released his first Bracket Watch (actually hit the site a couple days ago), and has Marquette as a 7-seed. Playing SD State in the first round. Tennessee would be the likely next opponent.
Only has 4 BEast teams: UConn, X, Marquette, Creighton. The Provi is among first 4 out.
I think the BE gets more than 4 teams in. In fact, I think 6 is much more likely than 4.
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We’re 3-1 & ppl are talking about 10 or 11 conf wins. Lol.
Wojo ruined us.
It’s interesting that our most similar efficiency profile to this season? 2017 Marquette
https://barttorvik.com/profile-compare.php?team=Marquette&year=2023&cov=1&o=4&d=4&tt=4&efg_w=1&oreb_w=1&tov_w=1&ftr_w=1&defg_w=1&doreb_w=1&dtov_w=1&dftr_w=1&threerate_w=1&talent_w=1&exp_w=1&ht_w=1
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It’s interesting that our most similar efficiency profile to this season? 2017 Marquette
https://barttorvik.com/profile-compare.php?team=Marquette&year=2023&cov=1&o=4&d=4&tt=4&efg_w=1&oreb_w=1&tov_w=1&ftr_w=1&defg_w=1&doreb_w=1&dtov_w=1&dftr_w=1&threerate_w=1&talent_w=1&exp_w=1&ht_w=1
On that list, let's hope we are more similar to UCLA 2014 or Duke 2013, which got to the Sweet Sixteen (UCLA) and Elite Eight (Duke).
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It’s interesting that our most similar efficiency profile to this season? 2017 Marquette
https://barttorvik.com/profile-compare.php?team=Marquette&year=2023&cov=1&o=4&d=4&tt=4&efg_w=1&oreb_w=1&tov_w=1&ftr_w=1&defg_w=1&doreb_w=1&dtov_w=1&dftr_w=1&threerate_w=1&talent_w=1&exp_w=1&ht_w=1
I really enjoyed watching that 2016-17 team. Lots of scoring threats, 2 really promising freshmen and some nice wins. Ultimately just not good enough.
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We’re 3-1 & ppl are talking about 10 or 11 conf wins. Lol.
Wojo ruined us.
Last years squad was on a trajectory to be a 6 seed or better in late January/early February.
Then it went 4-5 to finish the regular season, including losses at Butler and at DePaul. Then it lost to Creighton for the third time in NYC.
Then it lost by 100 points on the biggest stage to UNC.
Sure the previous guys finishes didn’t help matters, but taking a not-so-fast approach isn’t only about Wojo.
I’ll believe it when I see it.
In the meantime, get me a bid any way possible and a win in the dance and I’m good.
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Doctor V
I do think talking 10 conference wins is a bit silly with a 3-1 start, including playing at two tough places. Wanting to see success in Feb and March is fair, but thinking only 7 more conference wins seems crazy to me.
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I think the BE gets more than 4 teams in. In fact, I think 6 is much more likely than 4.
Absolutely right. No way that only four teams get in. The league is underrated every year. Of course, the experts said Creighton was the best team and we were a ninth place team.
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Doctor V
I do think talking 10 conference wins is a bit silly with a 3-1 start, including playing at two tough places. Wanting to see success in Feb and March is fair, but thinking only 7 more conference wins seems crazy to me.
I’m only talking 10 conference wins because that’s what I think it would take to earn a bid, but Brew thinks it’s 11 and he’s probably right.
I just can’t see the NET dropping below the 50s with 10 conference losses.
Of course moreso than other years the margins will have to be bigger, especially at home, since a few of the teams are really bad.
12/13 conference wins is much more likely, but crazier things have happened.
You can’t tell me after that 7 game stretch last year you would have ever imagined the season ending the way it did, with such poor play down the stretch?
I’m optimistic but very cautiously optimistic. We cannot count our chickens before they hatch, not with this MU program as of late.
Let’s not forget that Shaka has had his own late season and NCAAt and big game bugaboos of late.
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What happened last year has as much to do with this year as being 0-4 in close games "proved" Shaka couldn't win close games.
Last year is immaterial to this year, as is everything Shaka's previous teams did, as is anything having to do with Wojo.
Enjoy this team. If it wins a lot and advances in March, it will not be because of Al or Wade or Buzz. And if it loses too much and fails, it will not be because of past failures.
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What happened last year has as much to do with this year as being 0-4 in close games "proved" Shaka couldn't win close games.
Last year is immaterial to this year, as is everything Shaka's previous teams did, as is anything having to do with Wojo.
Enjoy this team. If it wins a lot and advances in March, it will not be because of Al or Wade or Buzz. And if it loses too much and fails, it will not be because of past failures.
I’m not sure that’s accurate. It’s many of the same players. Hopefully they learned from last year and more experience is going to lead to a stronger finish.
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I’m not sure that’s accurate. It’s many of the same players. Hopefully they learned from last year and more experience is going to lead to a stronger finish.
Several of the same players but every single one of those has been asked to take on much more significant roles; plus, several newcomers.
I do hope you're right about some lessons being learned, and not just the players but coaches, but I was speaking more to fan angst about, "That's the way things were, so that's the way they'll continue to be." If we happen to fade again, it won't be because the 2019, 2020 and 2022 teams faded IMHO.
I guess the idealist in me wishes Marquette fans would just enjoy this team this season for what it is, and to evaluate success or failure based on what this team actually does or doesn't accomplish ... instead of looking backward.
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Enjoy the moment?!?!?!?!
Harrumph.
ESPN has MU as a 5 seed.
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Enjoy the moment?!?!?!?!
Harrumph.
ESPN has MU as a 5 seed.
Great. That’s a loss
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Great. That’s a loss
Probably going to wear baby blues, loss.
Hopefully MU gets buried on TruTV to avoid that national television curse.
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The dreaded 5v12…
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A 5 seed would be GREAT …
But, wasn’t MU a 5 seed in the
JA Morant debacle??
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A 5 seed would be GREAT …
But, wasn’t MU a 5 seed in the
JA Morant debacle??
I'd love to get a No. 1 seed...
But does anybody remember that UMBC/UVA debacle?
Just get into the tournament...and then win.
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https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/35372595/ncaa-recommendations-call-bigger-championship-events
For those who like to discuss bracketing year round. 90 teams??
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A 5 seed would be GREAT …
But, wasn’t MU a 5 seed in the
JA Morant debacle??
So was MU-Tulsa.
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Absolutely right. No way that only four teams get in. The league is underrated every year. Of course, the experts said Creighton was the best team and we were a ninth place team.
It was a rough non con for sure. But UCONN,X, MU, PC, and Creighton all appear in solid shape. I also wouldn’t rule out Nova getting to bubble.
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wrong thread
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wrong thread
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Highly intriguing (and meaningless, I know) pairings for MU in Lunardi's latest bracket.
Dropped Marquette from a 5 seed to a 6 seed, facing Greg Elliott and 11 seeded Pitt with the opportunity to face 3 seeded Texas in the next round.
Greg/Marquette
Shaka/Texas
Hmmmm.
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Highly intriguing (and meaningless, I know) pairings for MU in Lunardi's latest bracket.
Dropped Marquette from a 5 seed to a 6 seed, facing Greg Elliott and 11 seeded Pitt with the opportunity to face 3 seeded Texas in the next round.
Greg/Marquette
Shaka/Texas
Hmmmm.
Just saw this thread. Thank You for posting. Yes and Joe has 5 Big East Teams in this time.
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I know it is early and it doesn't matter but still hate when bracketologists do this.
Marquette 12-4
Baylor 10-4
Marquette head to head win
Marquette KP-17
Baylor KP- 25
Marquette NET- 23
Baylor NET- 29
Marquette- 6 seed
Baylor- 4 seed
Do they even try?
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I know it is early and it doesn't matter but still hate when bracketologists do this.
Marquette 12-4
Baylor 10-4
Marquette head to head win
Marquette KP-17
Baylor KP- 25
Marquette NET- 23
Baylor NET- 29
Marquette- 6 seed
Baylor- 4 seed
Do they even try?
Baylor has two wins better than Marquette’s best win, and although neither team has any “bad” losses, Marquette has two losses worse than Baylor’s worst loss. It is what it is.
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I know it is early and it doesn't matter but still hate when bracketologists do this.
Marquette 12-4
Baylor 10-4
Marquette head to head win
Marquette KP-17
Baylor KP- 25
Marquette NET- 23
Baylor NET- 29
Marquette- 6 seed
Baylor- 4 seed
Do they even try?
They probably are both 6 seeds. Maybe Mu is a 7
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I know it is early and it doesn't matter but still hate when bracketologists do this.
Marquette 12-4
Baylor 10-4
Marquette head to head win
Marquette KP-17
Baylor KP- 25
Marquette NET- 23
Baylor NET- 29
Marquette- 6 seed
Baylor- 4 seed
Do they even try?
Yes, we do, and this is evidence you don't understand the process. I almost never look at head to head. Honestly, I don't care about it at all unless there's no separating the teams. On 1/1, I had Baylor as a 4 and Marquette as a 7. Baylor's best wins were UCLA & Gonzaga on neutral courts, both better than Marquette's home win over Baylor. They had no losses outside Q1, while MU lost at home to a sub-50 UW team. The resumes weren't even close.
Had Marquette beat Madison and Providence, then maybe that head to head comes into play. But they didn't, so it didn't. You'd have to be really lazy or biased to put Marquette ahead of Baylor.
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Yes, we do, and this is evidence you don't understand the process. I almost never look at head to head. Honestly, I don't care about it at all unless there's no separating the teams. On 1/1, I had Baylor as a 4 and Marquette as a 7. Baylor's best wins were UCLA & Gonzaga on neutral courts, both better than Marquette's home win over Baylor. They had no losses outside Q1, while MU lost at home to a sub-50 UW team. The resumes weren't even close.
Had Marquette beat Madison and Providence, then maybe that head to head comes into play. But they didn't, so it didn't. You'd have to be really lazy or biased to put Marquette ahead of Baylor.
NET no matta
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NET no matta
It is a factor, it is not the only factor, see Providence last year getting a 4 seed despite not even being in the top 30 NET.
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Yes, we do, and this is evidence you don't understand the process. I almost never look at head to head. Honestly, I don't care about it at all unless there's no separating the teams. On 1/1, I had Baylor as a 4 and Marquette as a 7. Baylor's best wins were UCLA & Gonzaga on neutral courts, both better than Marquette's home win over Baylor. They had no losses outside Q1, while MU lost at home to a sub-50 UW team. The resumes weren't even close.
Had Marquette beat Madison and Providence, then maybe that head to head comes into play. But they didn't, so it didn't. You'd have to be really lazy or biased to put Marquette ahead of Baylor.
With H2H not mattering, what is the basis for then having UW ahead of Marquette? Marquette has better metrics and Wisconsin has a Q3 loss.
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With H2H not mattering, what is the basis for then having UW ahead of Marquette? Marquette has better metrics and Wisconsin has a Q3 loss.
Wisconsin is 5-1 vs Q1+2, Marquette is 4-4. They are very close to each other currently, but that Q1+2 number is huge.
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Wisconsin is 5-1 vs Q1+2, Marquette is 4-4. They are very close to each other currently, but that Q1+2 number is huge.
Got it, thanks.
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Lunardi has Marquette as the last 4 seed, just inside the Top 16. MASSIVE MASSIVE week ahead.
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Lunardi has Marquette as the last 4 seed, just inside the Top 16. MASSIVE MASSIVE week ahead.
Gargantuan week for MU hoops. This very well could be the beginning of the prime-time resurgence Goose has mentioned a number of times.
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Gargantuan week for MU hoops. This very well could be the beginning of the prime-time resurgence Goose has mentioned a number of times.
Win 2 of the next 3 and there is a real path inside the Top 16. Probably tough to do without winning at least 2 of the next 3.
Start with 1 tomorrow!
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Lunardi has Marquette as the last 4 seed, just inside the Top 16. MASSIVE MASSIVE week ahead.
Lunardi's bracket is always wack.
He had us as a 5. Dropped us to a 6 after beating SJU. Which I thought was reasonable due to our lack of wins plus some of the other results teams like Kstate and ISU for example had last week.
But now we launched up to a 4 playing Gtown. I think hes got us higher than what we would really be at ths point.
But big week this week and it could be a legit 4/5
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MASSIVE!
GARGANTUAN!!
HUMONGOUS!!!
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Lunardi's bracket is always wack.
He had us as a 5. Dropped us to a 6 after beating SJU. Which I thought was reasonable due to our lack of wins plus some of the other results teams like Kstate and ISU for example had last week.
But now we launched up to a 4 playing Gtown. I think hes got us higher than what we would really be at ths point.
But big week this week and it could be a legit 4/5
Yea, Bracketmatrix has us as the 3rd 6, which feels right. Very well could be in the top 4 seed line by this time next week though.
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Win 2 of next 3, they may be on track for a 4 or 5 seed if they take care of business the rest of the way …
I think MU can win tomorrow.
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Hi Hate WI, but how does he have Marquette as a 4 and WI as a 7 seed? Is it due to there lower than anticipated NET Ranking (56)?
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It's because Lunardi is a click bait seeker. We aren't in protected seed territory. He's simply wrong right now.
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It's because Lunardi is a click bait seeker. We aren't in protected seed territory. He's simply wrong right now.
Didn't just yesterday you say that if the MU hung onto their top 25 rankings post-PC 2OT loss, they'd be a top 15 team right now, which also equates to a protected seed?
I am not arguing either way as I think MU has too many losses at the moment to be a top 16 team resume-wise, but I am getting more convinced by the day they may actually be one of the best 15 teams in the country even if the resume doesn't support that with the Wisco and Miss St losses.
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MASSIVE!
GARGANTUAN!!
HUMONGOUS!!!
Yes. it's a MAMMOTH week whether people want to accept facts or not. We are more than capable of inflicting relentless damage and getting two wins.
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Yes. it's a MAMMOTH week whether people want to accept facts or not.
Has anyone questioned that this is a big week? I think everyone agrees that these are two of the biggest games left on our schedule. Arguably the 2nd and 3rd toughest games of the Big East schedule.
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Yes. it's a MAMMOTH week whether people want to accept facts or not. We are more than capable of inflicting relentless damage and getting two wins.
Thanks, Muggs. I had been thinking this game didn't matter at all. Sunday's too.
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Thanks, Muggs. I had been thinking this game didn't matter at all. Sunday's too.
The players nor the fans cannot lose focus here.
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Didn't just yesterday you say that if the MU hung onto their top 25 rankings post-PC 2OT loss, they'd be a top 15 team right now, which also equates to a protected seed?
I am not arguing either way as I think MU has too many losses at the moment to be a top 16 team resume-wise, but I am getting more convinced by the day they may actually be one of the best 15 teams in the country even if the resume doesn't support that with the Wisco and Miss St losses.
Thats AP ranking vs tournament seeding. Very different animals.
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Thats AP ranking vs tournament seeding. Very different animals.
I am well aware of the difference and stated as much. Still curious how one could say you'd be a top 15 team, yet "not in protected seed" territory.
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The players nor the fans cannot lose focus here.
What would happen if the fans not going to the game lost focus?
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I am well aware of the difference and stated as much. Still curious how one could say you'd be a top 15 team, yet "not in protected seed" territory.
Because our resume is not in protected seed territory at the moment. That doesn't mean that we aren't a top 16 team
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NET no matta, AP no matta, head to head no matta, Sagrin no matta, KenPom no matta, RPI no matta and Lunardi no matta. And of course FT and wins no matta.
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What would happen if the fans not going to the game lost focus?
I'm going to the game and I worry I'll lose focus. It's those parachutes with the free t-shirts.
No, I'm gonna be a blithering idiot, as usual. LFG!
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Wait. Who are we playing? Anybody good?
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The players nor the fans cannot lose focus here.
I don't lose focus because I don't go into game thread anymore
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Smart. (insert Obi Wan Kenobi describing Mos Eisley to Luke Skywalker)
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Didn't just yesterday you say that if the MU hung onto their top 25 rankings post-PC 2OT loss, they'd be a top 15 team right now, which also equates to a protected seed?
I am not arguing either way as I think MU has too many losses at the moment to be a top 16 team resume-wise, but I am getting more convinced by the day they may actually be one of the best 15 teams in the country even if the resume doesn't support that with the Wisco and Miss St losses.
We may be one of the top-15 teams in the country, and we could be ranked there, but our resume is not that of a 4-seed.
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https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1612819843564335105?s=46&t=oqiYCbmAJM6DG6NGtHOO7Q
Here is Joe Lunardi’s Bracketology S Curve
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Gonna scrub in the next couple days, but now we might be in the 4-seed range after all.
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New goal: Win the Big East regular season.
That should be enough for a 4 seed.
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Gonna scrub in the next couple days, but now we might be in the 4-seed range after all.
Scrub kindly, scrub with bias
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Saw a few people upset over this on Twitter. The Field of 68 has a rotating panel every night to discuss the games of the night. They also have a bracket show called Fielding the 68. John Fanta hosted tonight with Chris Mack and Jeff Goodman and they completely skipped over Marquette when talking about the 4 Big East teams that played. Marquette still flying under the radar. I love it but also how do you gloss over Marquette to talk UConn tonight? Come on!
https://www.youtube.com/live/rqHySuki8R4?feature=share
01:40 = Alabama defeats Arkansas
12:32 = Nate Oats interview
17:10 = Should Arkansas be worried?
20:58 = Who’s better: UConn or Xavier?
26:02 = Sean Miller interview
44:35 = Is Indiana in real trouble?
52:30 = Is Memphis a tourney team?
56:24 = Texas comes back to beat TCU
1:01:30 = Was Missouri a fluke?
1:03:40 = Baylor finally gets a win
1:06:45 = Toasts of the Night!
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Gonna scrub in the next couple days, but now we might be in the 4-seed range after all.
Not sure we’re quite there yet, as the Baylor win has lost a little luster. Now, I’ll reconsider that if we come out of X with a win. And if that’s followed up by a win over Providence, I’ll pretend I never had any doubts. 😊
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Saw a few people upset over this on Twitter. The Field of 68 has a rotating panel every night to discuss the games of the night. They also have a bracket show called Fielding the 68. John Fanta hosted tonight with Chris Mack and Jeff Goodman and they completely skipped over Marquette when talking about the 4 Big East teams that played. Marquette still flying under the radar. I love it but also how do you gloss over Marquette to talk UConn tonight? Come on!
https://www.youtube.com/live/rqHySuki8R4?feature=share
01:40 = Alabama defeats Arkansas
12:32 = Nate Oats interview
17:10 = Should Arkansas be worried?
20:58 = Who’s better: UConn or Xavier?
26:02 = Sean Miller interview
44:35 = Is Indiana in real trouble?
52:30 = Is Memphis a tourney team?
56:24 = Texas comes back to beat TCU
1:01:30 = Was Missouri a fluke?
1:03:40 = Baylor finally gets a win
1:06:45 = Toasts of the Night!
It was the Sean Miller interview. Fanta was hosting and said "about Marquette..." then Goodman surprised them with Miller (former Field of 68 contributor) and they never went back.
But yeah...it's nuts to spend 6 minutes on UConn without acknowledging that maybe Marquette had something to do with that outcome.
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The media hates Marquette.
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The media hates Marquette.
I think we should let them know about it.
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I was listening to Fanta in a twitter space and they talked mostly Marquette, before Fanta closed it to do 68. Said he'd vote Kolek first team all big east, bunch of other nice things.
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I was listening to Fanta in a twitter space and they talked mostly Marquette, before Fanta closed it to do 68. Said he'd vote Kolek first team all big east, bunch of other nice things.
And then they go from a small spaces to a bigger broadcast and fail to mention anything. I'd rather be under the radar anyways I suppose.
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The media hates Marquette.
Goodman generally doesn't talk Marquette and generally does gloss over our games on After Dark. Plus, they were able to get the gang back together with Mack and Miller, so that was gonna get front billing.
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Goodman generally doesn't talk Marquette and generally does gloss over our games on After Dark. Plus, they were able to get the gang back together with Mack and Miller, so that was gonna get front billing.
Loyal to Buzz
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Loyal to Buzz
He actually out of the blue shouted out Buzz and TAMU last night haha
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I'd rather be under the radar anyways
Scoopers (not just you) keep saying stuff like this. And stuff like, "I don't even want us to be ranked because we always seem to lose after we're ranked."
We've been under the radar and unranked for most of a freakin' decade. I want to be on the effen radar! I want other teams to fear us. I want fans of our rivals to say, "Uh-oh, here comes Marquette. I hate playing them." I want to be ranked every week, with the ranking going up until we hit #1. I want our coach and players to have to answer countless questions while sitting on the dais at the Final Four.
We've had plenty of years "under the radar," thank you.
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Scoopers (not just you) keep saying stuff like this. And stuff like, "I don't even want us to be ranked because we always seem to lose after we're ranked."
We've been under the radar and unranked for most of a freakin' decade. I want to be on the effen radar! I want other teams to fear us. I want fans of our rivals to say, "Uh-oh, here comes Marquette. I hate playing them." I want to be ranked every week, with the ranking going up until we hit #1. I want our coach and players to have to answer countless questions while sitting on the dais at the Final Four.
We've had plenty of years "under the radar," thank you.
I agree with this analysis.
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It was the Sean Miller interview. Fanta was hosting and said "about Marquette..." then Goodman surprised them with Miller (former Field of 68 contributor) and they never went back.
But yeah...it's nuts to spend 6 minutes on UConn without acknowledging that maybe Marquette had something to do with that outcome.
Agree, but I do think they were gearing up to have a significant discussion about Marquette and the Miller interview just killed it. I don’t think there was any intentional malice, just really bad luck.
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Scoopers (not just you) keep saying stuff like this. And stuff like, "I don't even want us to be ranked because we always seem to lose after we're ranked."
We've been under the radar and unranked for most of a freakin' decade. I want to be on the effen radar! I want other teams to fear us. I want fans of our rivals to say, "Uh-oh, here comes Marquette. I hate playing them." I want to be ranked every week, with the ranking going up until we hit #1. I want our coach and players to have to answer countless questions while sitting on the dais at the Final Four.
We've had plenty of years "under the radar," thank you.
I'm fine with being ranked and also under the radar. We can't have both for much if we keep winning though. Wins in the next 2 and there is no under the radar.
I think being disrespected is fuel and Marquette and the fanbase can use the "9th in the Conference" as motivation. That's a dangerous weapon to have as someone else put it yesterday.
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It was the Sean Miller interview. Fanta was hosting and said "about Marquette..." then Goodman surprised them with Miller (former Field of 68 contributor) and they never went back.
But yeah...it's nuts to spend 6 minutes on UConn without acknowledging that maybe Marquette had something to do with that outcome.
Bogus, absolutely bogus. Here's where we insert the TyKo quote at the beginning of the season.
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Dauster loves Marquette, as does Fanta. Both are big Field of 68 guys,
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Dauster loves Marquette, as does Fanta. Both are big Field of 68 guys,
Fanta has always been very complimentary of Marquette.
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Field of 68 MO is to talk about the favored team that lost in an upset first. What went wrong? Do they need to worry? Etc. They then transition into the team that won and usually do a great job giving them their due. Almost like a bad news first type of mindset. It was just incredibly unfortunate that Miller called in as they were transitioning.
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I'm fine with being ranked and also under the radar. We can't have both for much if we keep winning though. Wins in the next 2 and there is no under the radar.
I think being disrespected is fuel and Marquette and the fanbase can use the "9th in the Conference" as motivation. That's a dangerous weapon to have as someone else put it yesterday.
Shaka can and probably will use "9th in conference" as motivation all season. He can keep using that even if we rise to No. 5 in the nation and we're the opposite of under the radar.
"We're going great, guys, but here's another effen coach who said we'd finish 9th in the Big East. Can you believe the balls of that guy? He had no respect for us at the beginning of the season ... and no matter what he might say today, he doesn't really respect us now either. As Tyler says, F 'em ... and now let's go F 'em up!"
Michael Jordan was the greatest player in the world. Everybody knew it. Nobody dared say different. And yet somehow, over and over and over again, Jordan would find some alleged slight that he could use as motivation. Shaka's a smart guy. He'll always be able to do the same.
Great programs don't fly under the radar. Al's teams weren't under the radar. Our 2003 team wasn't under the radar. Buzz's best team wasn't under the radar.
As a basketball program, Marquette's goal should be to never be under the radar again.
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Updated bracketmatrix has us as the top 6-seed, just .01 behind San Diego State. We're closer to being the second 5-seed than we are to being the second 6-seed. Behind us on the 6 line are Providence, Baylor and Missouri.
We're in every bracket, with the worst seed being a 9 and the best being a 4. We're a 4 in three brackets.
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Updated bracketmatrix has us as the top 6-seed, just .01 behind San Diego State. We're closer to being the second 5-seed than we are to being the second 6-seed. Behind us on the 6 line are Providence, Baylor and Missouri.
We're in every bracket, with the worst seed being a 9 and the best being a 4. We're a 4 in three brackets.
That 9 simply cant be updated. Cause its just flat out incorrect.
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That 9 simply cant be updated. Cause its just flat out incorrect.
It was updated on 1/9. It is aptly named “Novice Opinion’s Bracket Prediction.”
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Joey Brackets gonna move us up to the 2 line in no time at this rate
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Mike DeCourcy Fox College Hoops had Marquette as a # 5 Seed playing # 12 Seed College Of Charleston as of Tuesday January 10th
https://twitter.com/cbbonfox/status/1612870903662260224?s=46&t=i6KsD2i2UckkDzKBtHFSoQ
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13th in KenPom after Ohio State’s loss.
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Mike DeCourcy Fox College Hoops had Marquette as a # 5 Seed playing # 12 Seed College Of Charleston as of Tuesday January 10th
https://twitter.com/cbbonfox/status/1612870903662260224?s=46&t=i6KsD2i2UckkDzKBtHFSoQ
Joey's still picking hairs out of his teeth from the last time we played an upstart 12 seed
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Palm has MU in the 5-12 against Kent State. Would love to reach a 3 or 4 seed.
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Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Indiana State in Today’s Bracketology
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Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Indiana State in Today’s Bracketology
Stop! Let's end the season now.
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Stop! Let's end the season now.
Win it next two and I think we finish with a 2/3 seed. I say keep going.
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Bracket Matrix currently has 64 brackets that have been updated since January 8, 2023 (the automatically remove any brackets that haven't been updated since then). MU is currently 18th on their S-Curve (2nd 5-seed). Here's what some of the 17 teams ahead of them have done since 1/8:
17: Duke lost at Clemson
16: Miami-Fl lost at NC State
15: Arkansas lost big vs Alabama and big at Vandy
14: Iowa State lost close at Kansas
11: Kansas State lost big at TCU
10: Gonzaga barely escaped at BYU
9: Texas barely escaped vs. TCU and vs. Texas Tech
8: Arizona lost big at Oregon
6: Tennessee lost vs Kentucky
5: UConn lost at Marquette
X also checks in at 12 on their S-Curve. Win tomorrow and I don't think a 3-seed is out of the question when bracketmatrix does it's next update.
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Im sticking by what I have been preaching for the last few weeks. This is not your Steve Wojo coached team right now. This is a top 10 team in the country and No one and I repeat No one will want to play this team in the postseason. This team IMO will Win the Big East Conference Championship. They will get a 3/4 seed in the NCAA Tournament and honestly if they keep playing this way could get up to a 2 seed. I fully believe this team has what it takes to make the final four. Obviously once the matchups come out anything can happen and thats very bold to say but our offense is out of this world right now.
The problem with the fanbase is everyone is so scared to actually see how good this team is without reverting back to the last 10 years of mediocre basketball. When this team wins the next two games, they will jump into the top 10 with the hardest part of the schedule behind them. This is the most excited ive been about MU basketball since the elite 8 win over Miami in 13.
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Howards
Love the excitement and positive mojo. IMO, the big difference between ‘13 and now is that I believe we are positioned for the future. In ‘13 I was 100% convinced that Buzz was gone and to simply enjoy that moment.
Not only is this season exciting, quite possibly it is just the start of the resurgence of the program. This season might be one of the special runs that we always talk about, but I believe there is a good chance to just the start of building the MU basketball brand.
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If MU avoids wholesale transfers or early departures, next season's team is going to be filthy.
This year is already a lot of fun.
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If MU avoids wholesale transfers or early departures, next season's team is going to be filthy.
This year is already a lot of fun.
Pretty much every semester, WoJo had a transfer out, and so did Buzz. Remind me, who has transferred out under Shaka? Anyone significant yet?
While early departures for the NBA might hurt short term (imagine this team with Justin Lewis!), it is a nice problem to tell recruits about.
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Howards
Love the excitement and positive mojo. IMO, the big difference between ‘13 and now is that I believe we are positioned for the future. In ‘13 I was 100% convinced that Buzz was gone and to simply enjoy that moment.
Not only is this season exciting, quite possibly it is just the start of the resurgence of the program. This season might be one of the special runs that we always talk about, but I believe there is a good chance to just the start of building the MU basketball brand.
Nailed it. This is one of the youngest teams in D1 ball. We’re knocking on the door of a protected seed. It’s mind blowing
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Pretty much every semester, WoJo had a transfer out, and so did Buzz. Remind me, who has transferred out under Shaka? Anyone significant yet?
He had a bunch when he first came on board (Akanno, Cain, Garcia.) DJ Carton turned pro after initially signing on to the Shaka program. Greg Elliott transferred last off-season.
And he will likely have a transfer this off season.
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Pretty much every semester, WoJo had a transfer out, and so did Buzz. Remind me, who has transferred out under Shaka? Anyone significant yet?
While early departures for the NBA might hurt short term (imagine this team with Justin Lewis!), it is a nice problem to tell recruits about.
We haven't. MU has too many players on scholarship next year. Who leaves? If the starting line up all returns, how many of the bench players are going to be content knowing what their minutes and role will be? Just human nature.
So, somebody has to leave, either by early departure or transfer.
If MU can avoid wholesale departures, they should be really good next season.
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He had a bunch when he first came on board (Akanno, Cain, Garcia.) DJ Carton turned pro after initially signing on to the Shaka program. Greg Elliott transferred last off-season.
And he will likely have a transfer this off season.
Greg exhausted eligibility at MU. I wouldn’t knock Shaka for Wojo’s guys leaving.
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Greg exhausted eligibility at MU. I wouldn’t knock Shaka for Wojo’s guys leaving.
Greg could have come back for another year.
And I'm not knocking Shaka for anything. Merely answering his question.
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Greg could have come back for another year.
And I'm not knocking Shaka for anything. Merely answering his question.
Covid year ?
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Covid year ?
Yes. A la Brad Davison at UW. That's why he has the eligibility to play at Pitt.
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Yes. A la Brad Davison at UW. That's why he has the eligibility to play at Pitt.
I thought he exhausted eligibility here and grad transferred. Forgot about covid year
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The problem with the fanbase is everyone is so scared to actually see how good this team is without reverting back to the last 10 years of mediocre basketball.
This. So this.
People fear a February fade and/or a March embarrassment because that's what happened in the past. Have people not read the great work by brew, Wiz and others about our starting 5 being the best statistically in college basketball and about us having a top-5 offense?
I know it's human nature -- and definitely fan nature -- to always look to the past as a guide to the future. (And I'm not claiming that I'm immune to it, either.)
But this team is not Buzz's last team or Wojo's teams or even last year's team. It's a hell of a team. Scoopers need to let themselves enjoy this effen wonderful season without constantly dreading what boogeyman might be lurking behind the corner.
I'm even trying to not think about how much better we'll be next season. Not always succeeding at that, but I'm trying real hard to be totally in the moment with this incredibly hard-working, high-performing, likeable, high-IQ, easy-to-enjoy group of Warriors.
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I’m enjoying it tremendously, but a possible reversion towards a 12-8 type of conference season as well as a post season loss in a big game isn’t completely out of the question until it’s no longer possible.
All Marquette’s do reach equilibrium after all.
That said, a week ago I woulda thought 10-10 conference record and bubble bid as a worst case scenario was still a possibility.
Now I can’t really see anything worse than being in the ballpark of 12-8, which would be a guaranteed bid.
Also, the two thoughts aren’t mutually exclusive.
I can still enjoy a helluva season the way we’ve been witnessing AND still have that nightmare scenario in mind, it doesn’t soil by utter enjoyment of what I’m seeing
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People fear a February fade and/or a March embarrassment because that's what happened in the past. Have people not read the great work by brew, Wiz and others about our starting 5 being the best statistically in college basketball and about us having a top-5 offense?
The biggest question I have right now is how teams will adjust when they see us a second time. Our offense is really hard to prepare for because no one plays like us. It's difficult to replicate in practice the speed at which we play and the instinctive nature employed by guys like TK, Oso, and Kam. This is the benefit of running an offense that teaches concepts rather than set plays. Our offense is this good for the same reason Villanova under Jay Wright was so good. It relies on the basketball IQ of players like Ryan Arcidiacono, Josh Hart, Mikel Bridges, Jalen Brunson, Tyler Kolek, Oso Ighodaro, and Kam Jones rather than drilling repeatable sets.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Providence and Seton Hall approach us in the second meetings this week. Win games like that and I think we'll be able to avoid the feared fade.
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Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Marshall in Today’s Bracketology
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Bracketmatrix has us as the third #4.
That puts a full point behind next closest Virginia on the cumulative-average scale, but we're still closer to Virginia than we are to the third #5, Duke.
We're no worse than 6 on any bracket, and an outfit that goes by Bracket Forecast has us at 3.
That's quite an upgrade from just 5 days ago ...
Updated bracketmatrix has us as the top 6-seed, just .01 behind San Diego State. We're closer to being the second 5-seed than we are to being the second 6-seed. Behind us on the 6 line are Providence, Baylor and Missouri.
We're in every bracket, with the worst seed being a 9 and the best being a 4. We're a 4 in three brackets.
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The biggest question I have right now is how teams will adjust when they see us a second time. Our offense is really hard to prepare for because no one plays like us. It's difficult to replicate in practice the speed at which we play and the instinctive nature employed by guys like TK, Oso, and Kam. This is the benefit of running an offense that teaches concepts rather than set plays. Our offense is this good for the same reason Villanova under Jay Wright was so good. It relies on the basketball IQ of players like Ryan Arcidiacono, Josh Hart, Mikel Bridges, Jalen Brunson, Tyler Kolek, Oso Ighodaro, and Kam Jones rather than drilling repeatable sets.
I'm looking forward to seeing how Providence and Seton Hall approach us in the second meetings this week. Win games like that and I think we'll be able to avoid the feared fade.
Thought it was interesting that last season, even with the "February Fade" we had a similar record the second time facing each conference opponent.
First game with each team we went 5-4, return game record was 4-5.
(Excluded St. Johns since we only played them once.)
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Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Marshall in Today’s Bracketology
Today too.
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Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Marshall in Today’s Bracketology
The “We Are” battle.
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Palm has us as a 4 vs Marshall too
Also curiously has Creighton out.
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Palm has us as a 4 vs Marshall too
Also curiously has Creighton out.
Palm is an idiot
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Palm is an idiot
Stop it
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Sometimes, Palm is the best you got
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Sometimes, Palm is the best you got
Not bad!
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Palm is an idiot
Cosign. Anyone with Creighton out is an idiot.
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Cosign. Anyone with Creighton out is an idiot.
I've seen a lot of UConn slander everywhere I look too.
I see they are at a 4 seed as well, but that seems low based on some of their early season wins. Do you think they still have a path to a 1 seed if they flip the script again?
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Sometimes, Palm is the best you got
Is Cheeks lunchin' with him?
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I've seen a lot of UConn slander everywhere I look too.
I see they are at a 4 seed as well, but that seems low based on some of their early season wins. Do you think they still have a path to a 1 seed if they flip the script again?
If they win out (11 straight in conference, then Big East Tournament champs), yes. Short of that, probably not.
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I thought he exhausted eligibility here and grad transferred. Forgot about covid year
That’s not a thing. You don’t exhaust eligibility at a school. You exhaust it playing college basketball, regardless of where.
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That’s not a thing. You don’t exhaust eligibility at a school. You exhaust it playing college basketball, regardless of where.
The Ivy League says hi, Mr. Technicality.
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The Ivy League says hi, Mr. Technicality.
Yet another non-basketball related post from Scoop's least valuable poster (who also refers to posters as "Dweebs.") I mean at least get more current with your dis, you douche.
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I've seen a lot of UConn slander everywhere I look too.
I see they are at a 4 seed as well, but that seems low based on some of their early season wins. Do you think they still have a path to a 1 seed if they flip the script again?
I just did a complete scrub last night and this morning and moved UConn back to the 2 line. No one has two better wins away from home than UConn does. The losses hurt, but wins typically mean more than losses. They do need to turn it around, because eventually those losses will add up and drag them down, but for now I think anything other than a 2 or 3 seed is recency bias.
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Yet another non-basketball related post from Scoop's least valuable poster (who also refers to posters as "Dweebs.") I mean at least get more current with your dis, you douche.
How was that a “non-basketball related post?”
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Fart noise
How was that a “non-basketball related post?”
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Thought it was interesting that last season, even with the "February Fade" we had a similar record the second time facing each conference opponent.
First game with each team we went 5-4, return game record was 4-5.
(Excluded St. Johns since we only played them once.)
I think how we handle Seton Hall today on the road should give us an inkling of what to expect. This will be a tougher game to win when we beat them at home. The February March to Houston begins to day.
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I’m really hoping we put together a strong final six weeks and find a way to get on that 3 line. Going 14/6/2 sounds so much better than 13/5/1.
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I’m really hoping we put together a strong final six weeks and find a way to get on that 3 line. Going 14/6/2 sounds so much better than 13/5/1.
At this point, I don’t care if we are playing the 96 Bulls in the Sweet Sixteen. If we get there, I’ll be flying high enough to see Bill Walton.
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Yet another non-basketball related post from Scoop's least valuable poster (who also refers to posters as "Dweebs.") I mean at least get more current with your dis, you douche.
Oh the irony. Also, it had as much to do about basketball as the post I responded to. Clown.
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Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Seattle
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Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Seattle
And in typical lundardi fashion
VCU is the 12 seed
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Shaka vs VCU in rd 2. Fun.
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The four #4 seeds on bracketmatrix in the latest update:
Xavier
UConn
Marquette
Baylor
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That would be crazy!
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How is Oklahoma still even on the bubble? Their entire resume consists of decent advanced metrics due to not getting blown out to frequently against the best of the B12 (before last night at least). 1 point to Texas, 3 to Iowa State, 4 to Kansas, 2 to Baylor. They currently have one win over a tournament team per bracketmatrix (and it's almost equally as mind blowing that WVA currently projects in), and all of their Q1 wins are on the verge or dropping (Home W against #29 WVA cutoff is 30, neutral win over #44 Florida cutoff is 50, Road win @#73 Texas Tech cutoff is 75). They certainly have a lot of opportunities left to pick up big wins, but they should be no where near an at-large right now IMO.
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How is Oklahoma still even on the bubble? Their entire resume consists of decent advanced metrics due to not getting blown out to frequently against the best of the B12 (before last night at least). 1 point to Texas, 3 to Iowa State, 4 to Kansas, 2 to Baylor. They currently have one win over a tournament team per bracketmatrix (and it's almost equally as mind blowing that WVA currently projects in), and all of their Q1 wins are on the verge or dropping (Home W against #29 WVA cutoff is 30, neutral win over #44 Florida cutoff is 50, Road win @#73 Texas Tech cutoff is 75). They certainly have a lot of opportunities left to pick up big wins, but they should be no where near an at-large right now IMO.
You kind of answered your own question. They have good advanced metrics because they have played well against one of the most difficult schedules in the country (they are 5th in SOS). 6 of their 9 losses are Q1A losses and only one of those have been a true blowout. They have 3 Q1 wins and you are right they are all borderline but that's still better than most bubble teams.
Also, they are currently projected as 4th team out on bracketmatrix and that's before last night's blowout. They'll drop lower once that's taken into account.
You also have to look at their competition on the bubble. There are three teams below them appearing on multiple bracketmatrix brackets:
Utah State: Better NET, 0 Q1 wins, blown out in both of their Q1 games, 0 wins against projected NCAAT at large teams, 2 Q4 losses
Wake Forest: Worse NET, 1 Q1 win, 1 Q3 loss
Oklahoma State: Bettern NET, 2 Q1 wins, most of their Q1 losses are blowouts and 1 of their wins is also borderline, 1 Q3 loss.
Sometimes it's not about having a good resume, it's about everyone else having a worse resume
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Nice not having to discuss whether or not it’s a soft bubble this year.
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You kind of answered your own question. They have good advanced metrics because they have played well against one of the most difficult schedules in the country (they are 5th in SOS). 6 of their 9 losses are Q1A losses and only one of those have been a true blowout. They have 3 Q1 wins and you are right they are all borderline but that's still better than most bubble teams.
Also, they are currently projected as 4th team out on bracketmatrix and that's before last night's blowout. They'll drop lower once that's taken into account.
You also have to look at their competition on the bubble. There are three teams below them appearing on multiple bracketmatrix brackets:
Utah State: Better NET, 0 Q1 wins, blown out in both of their Q1 games, 0 wins against projected NCAAT at large teams, 2 Q4 losses
Wake Forest: Worse NET, 1 Q1 win, 1 Q3 loss
Oklahoma State: Bettern NET, 2 Q1 wins, most of their Q1 losses are blowouts and 1 of their wins is also borderline, 1 Q3 loss.
Sometimes it's not about having a good resume, it's about everyone else having a worse resume
Guess I should have lead with "Is this years bubble historically soft?", because man that resume is weak.
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Guess I should have lead with "Is this years bubble historically soft?", because man that resume is weak.
Honestly, every year I hear comments about the bubble being "historically soft" and teams with weak resumes getting in. I'm at the point where I think most people just overestimate what a "Last Four In" or "First Four Out" resume looks like. I think the only year I don't remember this was the last year of the Rowdy/Markus backcourt
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Playing around with the T Rank teamcast feature, Oklahoma would need to go 7-4 to make it as a 9 seed.
6-5 would have them in Dayton for the First Four, albeit very vulnerable to bid thieves and other at large teams.
So they're in the category of "technically still alive but need to get hot down the stretch."
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GM not afraid of a Barra market.
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Honestly, every year I hear comments about the bubble being "historically soft" and teams with weak resumes getting in. I'm at the point where I think most people just overestimate what a "Last Four In" or "First Four Out" resume looks like. I think the only year I don't remember this was the last year of the Rowdy/Markus backcourt
Wasn't that Rowsey Markus year the last year of RPI? It was like if they had used NET we'd have been in over PC or something IIRC.
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Wasn't that Rowsey Markus year the last year of RPI? It was like if they had used NET we'd have been in over PC or something IIRC.
I don't think we can say that NET would have gotten us in because we don't know everything that goes into it. What I recall from that season is that teams with similar resumes had made the tournament like 90% of the time in past seasons or something crazy like that.
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Playing around on T-Rank. If we win out (including BET) it projects us as a 2-seed, which I agree is probably our seeding ceiling. If we lose @Creighton and @Uconn, run the rest of the table through the BET, we project as a 4 seed. Thank kind of surprised me, I'd be expecting a 3 in that scenario.
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Playing around with the T Rank teamcast feature, Oklahoma would need to go 7-4 to make it as a 9 seed.
6-5 would have them in Dayton for the First Four, albeit very vulnerable to bid thieves and other at large teams.
So they're in the category of "technically still alive but need to get hot down the stretch."
Remaining games: Alabama, Okla St, at WVa, at Baylor, Kansas, K-State, at Texas, Texas Tech, at Iowa St, at K-State, TCU.
Good luck winning 6 or 7 of those 11, Mr. Moser.
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Seattle University - Western Athletic Conference potential champs, winners of 8 in a row against nobodies, blown out by any reasonable D1 competition (Oregon State, Washington, Utah State (minus legendary coach Stew Morrill) and even Iona).
Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Seattle
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Guess I should have lead with "Is this years bubble historically soft?", because man that resume is weak.
It's strange, but I feel like the top end is weak but the bubble is strong. I find myself thinking "seriously, these are my options for the 3/5/6 lines?" but when I get to the bottom, there are 3-4 teams I really want to put in but there just isn't room.
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It's strange, but I feel like the top end is weak but the bubble is strong. I find myself thinking "seriously, these are my options for the 3/5/6 lines?" but when I get to the bottom, there are 3-4 teams I really want to put in but there just isn't room.
If you don't mind me asking, who? The first four out on your last bracket were Wake Forest with an NET in the 70s, Penn St a sub .500 B10 team (with a down B10 this year) that just got blown out by a good but not great Rutgers team, Kentucky with their one Q1 win (even if it truly is one of the best wins that anyone has this season), and Southern Cal who has an NET in the 60s and only one real quality win.
I can see the argument for any of them, given this years bubble, but they all have very legitimate reasons that they should be left out.
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Lunardi finally has the Baders in last 4 in.
His last team in the field
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Lunardi finally has the Baders in last 4 in.
His last team in the field
The only reason they are in? Road win over MU.
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Their Super Bowl. MU's loss to a mid major.
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Since we're talking about Lunardi's bracket, probably worth mentioning he has Marquette as a 4 playing Liberty in Orlando.
Ok, now back to the Badgers...
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Since we're talking about Lunardi's bracket, probably worth mentioning he has Marquette as a 4 playing Liberty in Orlando.
The battle for the Magic Dawson Trophy.
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The battle for the Magic Dawson Trophy.
Somebody wanted to die on the John Dawson hill, that will always be one of my favorite Scoop tropes of all time.
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MU v. Seattle or Liberty ?? YES !!
let’s keep winning and get a low major in the 1st round
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If you don't mind me asking, who? The first four out on your last bracket were Wake Forest with an NET in the 70s, Penn St a sub .500 B10 team (with a down B10 this year) that just got blown out by a good but not great Rutgers team, Kentucky with their one Q1 win (even if it truly is one of the best wins that anyone has this season), and Southern Cal who has an NET in the 60s and only one real quality win.
I can see the argument for any of them, given this years bubble, but they all have very legitimate reasons that they should be left out.
When comparing them to other teams on the bubble, I really like Penn State and Kentucky to be in. I wasn't that high on USC until yesterday, but they deserve a long look. I also like Mississippi State (though maybe biased because of how they played us) as a team I'd like to see in the field.
I'm not saying the bubble teams are great teams, but it feels like when you get to that last 8 in, there's 12-15 teams with legit claims to those spots. Reminding me of 2018, when the top of the NIT felt very strong.
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The battle for the Magic Dawson Trophy.
Trap game
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When comparing them to other teams on the bubble, I really like Penn State and Kentucky to be in. I wasn't that high on USC until yesterday, but they deserve a long look. I also like Mississippi State (though maybe biased because of how they played us) as a team I'd like to see in the field.
I'm not saying the bubble teams are great teams, but it feels like when you get to that last 8 in, there's 12-15 teams with legit claims to those spots. Reminding me of 2018, when the top of the NIT felt very strong.
Sure, if you compare them to other bubble teams. My point was that the entire bubble seems soft, so much so that a team that is 2 games over .500 overall, 2-6 in conference play, with an NET in the mid 60's, with all 3 of the Q1 wins very borderline, is still in consideration as the 4th team out per bracketmatrix, and one of your last four in (Oklahoma, my original "how are they on the bubble team"). Although I will admit that since your last bracket they have lost twice more and I don't expect to see them in your bracket that gets released (tomorrow?).
Maybe TAMU was right, and that's really all it takes to be in consideration for an at large, you guys do more bracketology work than I do, but there seem to be pretty glaring holes for most of the teams listed between NCAA 11 and NIT 2.
Edit: I guess we just might be looking at it two different ways. If your point is that there is little separation between NCAA 11 and NIT 2, I would agree. My point however, is that even the teams currently project in on the 11 line have sufficient reasons to be left out.
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Sure, if you compare them to other bubble teams. My point was that the entire bubble seems soft, so much so that a team that is 2 games over .500 overall, 2-6 in conference play, with an NET in the mid 60's, with all 3 of the Q1 wins very borderline, is still in consideration as the 4th team out per bracketmatrix, and one of your last four in (Oklahoma, my original "how are they on the bubble team"). Although I will admit that since your last bracket they have lost twice more and I don't expect to see them in your bracket that gets released (tomorrow?).
Maybe TAMU was right, and that's really all it takes to be in consideration for an at large, you guys do more bracketology work than I do, but there seem to be pretty glaring holes for most of the teams listed between NCAA 11 and NIT 2.
Edit: I guess we just might be looking at it two different ways. If your point is that there is little separation between NCAA 11 and NIT 2, I would agree. My point however, is that even the teams currently project in on the 11 line have sufficient reasons to be left out.
I know the overall point of your question is OU's resume at this point in time and if something like that is worthy.
But I will say, in regards to OU it really dont matter. Because if you look at their remaining schedule its truly gonna sort itself out down the stretch. And most likely not in a good way.
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Somebody wanted to die on the John Dawson hill, that will always be one of my favorite Scoop tropes of all time.
No doubt. I was proud to die on the John Dawson hill. Sure as hell beat the alternative of dying on the Derrick Wilson hill. To this day I've never seen a high major PG disrespected by the opposition's defense as much as was the case with Derrick Wilson. I mean I got it with Buzz maxing Derrick's minutes as Buzz was giving MU a big F-You on the way out the door. But Wojo?? LMAO. That was all the evidence needed to realize Wojo was an absolute idiot.
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No doubt. I was proud to die on the John Dawson hill. Sure as hell beat the alternative of dying on the Derrick Wilson hill. To this day I've never seen a high major PG disrespected by the opposition's defense as much as was the case with Derrick Wilson. I mean I got it with Buzz maxing Derrick's minutes as Buzz was giving MU a big F-You on the way out the door. But Wojo?? LMAO. That was all the evidence needed to realize Wojo was an absolute idiot.
So Buzz decided he'd rather stick a middle finger in the administration's nose and go to wherever would take him as opposed to doing as well as he could in that season and then having the top jobs come calling?
Checks out.
Edited to include: Buzz knew he had a stud in John "Magic" Dawson so he sat the kid knowing he would be moving on from MU and he wanted to stick it to the administration, hurting the chances that said stud might follow him to his next job?
Again, checks out.
The guy did make Honorable Mention in the Big South...impressive! He even played in the G League, because the level of play at that time was absolutely elite!
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John Dawson sucked
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So Buzz decided he'd rather stick a middle finger in the administration's nose and go to wherever would take him as opposed to doing as well as he could in that season and then having the top jobs come calling?
Checks out.
Edited to include: Buzz knew he had a stud in John "Magic" Dawson so he sat the kid knowing he would be moving on from MU and he wanted to stick it to the administration, hurting the chances that said stud might follow him to his next job?
Again, checks out.
The guy did make Honorable Mention in the Big South...impressive! He even played in the G League, because the level of play at that time was absolutely elite!
This is the narrative Elon must build to convince everyone that John Dawson was better than Derrick Wilson...even though two division one coaches didn't see it that way.
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This is the narrative Elon must build to convince everyone that John Dawson was better than Derrick Wilson...even though two division one coaches didn't see it that way.
Muscoop stock trading up 10% today on news of a John Dawson vs Derrick Wilson thread hijacking in 2023.
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So Buzz decided he'd rather stick a middle finger in the administration's nose and go to wherever would take him as opposed to doing as well as he could in that season and then having the top jobs come calling?
Checks out.
Edited to include: Buzz knew he had a stud in John "Magic" Dawson so he sat the kid knowing he would be moving on from MU and he wanted to stick it to the administration, hurting the chances that said stud might follow him to his next job?
Again, checks out.
The guy did make Honorable Mention in the Big South...impressive! He even played in the G League, because the level of play at that time was absolutely elite!
John Dawson sucked
This is the narrative Elon must build to convince everyone that John Dawson was better than Derrick Wilson...even though two division one coaches didn't see it that way.
Like moths to a flame. It's too easy. Just as it was being the first Scooper to dump on Wojo 10 games in and tell this board he didn't have it. And there's no narrative. If you thought Wojo had any idea as it relates to talent, or playing time allocation that's on you. The lack of results speak for themselves. And if you didn't think Buzz mailed it in his last year, that too is on you.
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"wojo had no idea related to talent"
Woof.
Wed have no Kam, Oso or Stevie thats forsure.
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Muscoop stock trading up 10% today on news of a John Dawson vs Derrick Wilson thread hijacking in 2023.
SEC requiring restatement of the books.
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Like moths to a flame. It's too easy. Just as it was being the first Scooper to dump on Wojo 10 games in and tell this board he didn't have it. And there's no narrative. If you thought Wojo had any idea as it relates to talent, or playing time allocation that's on you. The lack of results speak for themselves. And if you didn't think Buzz mailed it in his last year, that too is on you.
Wojo was an excellent talent evaluator. He had 5 players get cups of coffee in the NBA (Jamal, Sam, Markus, Henry, Justin. Not counting Juan or Deonte). He recruited 3 of the 6 best players on a team that's currently #8 in KenPom.
He had a ton of good pieces. He just had no idea how to put those pieces together.
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Wojo was an excellent talent evaluator. He had 5 players get cups of coffee in the NBA (Jamal, Sam, Markus, Henry, Justin. Not counting Juan or Deonte). He recruited 3 of the 6 best players on a team that's currently #8 in KenPom.
He had a ton of good pieces. He just had no idea how to put those pieces together.
Correct.
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Virtually every top level coach is a good judge of talent, Wojo included. That said, not for one second do I believe Oso would be the player he is today if he had played for Wojo. Plus, IMO Kam might be the leading scorer but he would likely not have added going to the basket. He would be chucking 30 footers all day long.
There are hundreds of guys that have talent in college basketball and every coach has guys with talent. Not sour grapes, but I think Oso, Kam and Stevie would have wasted 3-4 years playing for Wojo. Glad he recruited them, but they were hardly 4-5 star recruits.
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Virtually every top level coach is a good judge of talent, Wojo included. That said, not for one second do I believe Oso would be the player he is today if he had played for Wojo. Plus, IMO Kam might be the leading scorer but he would likely not have added going to the basket. He would be chucking 30 footers all day long.
There are hundreds of guys that have talent in college basketball and every coach has guys with talent. Not sour grapes, but I think Oso, Kam and Stevie would have wasted 3-4 years playing for Wojo. Glad he recruited them, but they were hardly 4-5 star recruits.
100% these guys are all better with Shaka. No doubt about that.
But the comment was Wojo didnt know talent. And its blatantly false. He was an excellent recruiter just a blockhead when it mattered.
But the obessive Wojo hate(really its one psycho) at this point if youre an MU fan is crazy. In hindsight having Steve here allowed us to get Shaka a time he wanted to come. Thanks to Steve we have Kam, Oso and Stevie on a top 8 Kenpom team. Those guys are not here without Steve.
Even more specificially look at Shakas Texas class. Bates, Jop, Ellis, Keeyan. Luckily we have 3 of those 4 anyways. But right now which group would you rather have Shakas 4 or Wojos 3??? Wojo clearly found great talent. Considering Shaka has currently developed his 3 much better than the 3 he brought with him
And thats not a knock on those 3 at all. Im one of the people who backs Jop the most and I really think Ellis could surprise if he sticks around. Just saying....
Magic Dawsons #1 fan, made another mental statement.
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"wojo had no idea related to talent"
Woof.
Wed have no Kam, Oso or Stevie thats forsure.
Don't dis on Rita. He is a basketball expert. Just ask him. He will tell you.
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Sure, if you compare them to other bubble teams. My point was that the entire bubble seems soft, so much so that a team that is 2 games over .500 overall, 2-6 in conference play, with an NET in the mid 60's, with all 3 of the Q1 wins very borderline, is still in consideration as the 4th team out per bracketmatrix, and one of your last four in (Oklahoma, my original "how are they on the bubble team"). Although I will admit that since your last bracket they have lost twice more and I don't expect to see them in your bracket that gets released (tomorrow?).
Maybe TAMU was right, and that's really all it takes to be in consideration for an at large, you guys do more bracketology work than I do, but there seem to be pretty glaring holes for most of the teams listed between NCAA 11 and NIT 2.
Edit: I guess we just might be looking at it two different ways. If your point is that there is little separation between NCAA 11 and NIT 2, I would agree. My point however, is that even the teams currently project in on the 11 line have sufficient reasons to be left out.
but is the bubble the softest its been in years ?
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Don't dis on Rita. He is a basketball expert. Just ask him. He will tell you.
I am. Thanks!
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but is the bubble the softest its been in years ?
Can't say without knowing the full history of the bubble. If MU isn't on it, I usually don't pay attention.
All I know is that Ohio St appears in 49 out of 80 brackets on bracketmatrix, despite being 11-9 overall, 3-6 in the B10, are the only B10 team to lose to Minnesota (at home no less), and should not be projected in the field IMO despite their top 30 NET ranking. A lot of teams near the bubble have similar resumes; good computer numbers with few if any real quality wins and multiple questionable losses. Looking at you Nevada.
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How 'bout that bracketology, everybody, eh?
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Wojo was an excellent talent evaluator. He had 5 players get cups of coffee in the NBA (Jamal, Sam, Markus, Henry, Justin. Not counting Juan or Deonte). He recruited 3 of the 6 best players on a team that's currently #8 in KenPom.
He had a ton of good pieces. He just had no idea how to put those pieces together.
but did Wojo flush for himself?
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Can't say without knowing the full history of the bubble. If MU isn't on it, I usually don't pay attention.
All I know is that Ohio St appears in 49 out of 80 brackets on bracketmatrix, despite being 11-9 overall, 3-6 in the B10, are the only B10 team to lose to Minnesota (at home no less), and should not be projected in the field IMO despite their top 30 NET ranking. A lot of teams near the bubble have similar resumes; good computer numbers with few if any real quality wins and multiple questionable losses. Looking at you Nevada.
softest since 2020. although 2019 and 2018 should throw their hats in the ring
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No doubt. I was proud to die on the John Dawson hill. Sure as hell beat the alternative of dying on the Derrick Wilson hill. To this day I've never seen a high major PG disrespected by the opposition's defense as much as was the case with Derrick Wilson. I mean I got it with Buzz maxing Derrick's minutes as Buzz was giving MU a big F-You on the way out the door. But Wojo?? LMAO. That was all the evidence needed to realize Wojo was an absolute idiot.
What year is it?
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What year is it?
Only the best hoopers end their careers at Liberty with a 91 offensive rating.
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The fact that 4Ever hasn't entered the Derrick vs. Dawson debate by adding Crean Sucks has me concerned for his well being.
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It's strange, but I feel like the top end is weak but the bubble is strong. I find myself thinking "seriously, these are my options for the 3/5/6 lines?" but when I get to the bottom, there are 3-4 teams I really want to put in but there just isn't room.
Do you publish a bracket somewhere?
Edit: NM. I see it’s on Cracked Sidewalks.
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The fact that 4Ever hasn't entered the Derrick vs. Dawson debate by adding Crean Sucks has me concerned for his well being.
He's more on the scanner nowadays
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Like moths to a flame. It's too easy. Just as it was being the first Scooper to dump on Wojo 10 games in and tell this board he didn't have it.
I know you think this somehow give you credibility. All it does it prove that you based your entire evaluation of Wojo on whether or not he would prove that you had been right along about the Derrick vs. Dawson debate. Making a correct prediction based on insufficient information doesn't make one a genius, just lucky.
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Can't say without knowing the full history of the bubble. If MU isn't on it, I usually don't pay attention.
All I know is that Ohio St appears in 49 out of 80 brackets on bracketmatrix, despite being 11-9 overall, 3-6 in the B10, are the only B10 team to lose to Minnesota (at home no less), and should not be projected in the field IMO despite their top 30 NET ranking. A lot of teams near the bubble have similar resumes; good computer numbers with few if any real quality wins and multiple questionable losses. Looking at you Nevada.
Bracket Matrix as of yesterday hadn't updated in days. Was discussing this on Twitter when someone complained about Wisconsin's placement, but their last two losses hadn't been reflected in updates. Until they start updating every 1-2 days (usually mid-February) it isn't always an accurate reflection of what's happened lately. As of last night, only 17/80 brackets reflected Ohio State's most recent loss.
I have Ohio State at the back of the NIT 2-seeds, and they're fading fast. I like Nevada's resume. Boise and New Mexico are good teams. I think the Mountain West currently deserves 4, though they probably only get 3 in at the end of the day. If you look at it from a "who can you beat" perspective, everyone in my last eight (NC State, Clemson, Nevada, Mizzou, ASU, Pitt, Kentucky, Bucky) has multiple wins over tourney teams except UK, who has the best win of all of them. Penn State, TAMU, WVU, and Wake all have enough at the top that I would like to see what they could do with a trip to Dayton, but you can only take 68.
I do think the decline after that is a bit steep. Oklahoma and Utah I can see making a case, but they just don't have enough yet.
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I know you think this somehow give you credibility. All it does it prove that you based your entire evaluation of Wojo on whether or not he would prove that you had been right along about the Derrick vs. Dawson debate. Making a correct prediction based on insufficient information doesn't make one a genius, just lucky.
It wasn't just the Dawson vs Derrick issue. It was also how Wojo "coached" Deonte Burton. It was his decision to play Haanif at PG over Traci Carter in Year 2. And how he coached JJJ that year. And then Jamal Cain. So, while I recognized it early, the evidence continued to stack up, which is why I never relented in my disapproval for him as MU's head coach.
Sorry that you didn't see it early, despite knowing ball. You're generally on target, but you really missed the mark by being a staunch Wojo supporter for 5 years. You're welcome to think I was "lucky," and have no credibility, but that's a pretty bizarre statement coming from you - a guy who staunchly supported Wojo for 5+ years.
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Since it's not Marquette relevant anymore, maybe take the Wojo discussion to the Superbar?
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Since it's not Marquette relevant anymore, maybe take the Wojo discussion to the Superbar?
(https://media4.giphy.com/media/11pQizRLu1JP0c/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47z8t1clqgi3gqkr2r2g3007ouo8d0fno86t1ea2l8&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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Sometimes, Palm is the best you got
Fore sum itz Rosie Palm and her four friends, aina?
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It wasn't just the Dawson vs Derrick issue. It was also how Wojo "coached" Deonte Burton. It was his decision to play Haanif at PG over Traci Carter in Year 2. And how he coached JJJ that year. And then Jamal Cain. So, while I recognized it early, the evidence continued to stack up, which is why I never relented in my disapproval for him as MU's head coach.
Sorry that you didn't see it early, despite knowing ball. You're generally on target, but you really missed the mark by being a staunch Wojo supporter for 5 years. You're welcome to think I was "lucky," and have no credibility, but that's a pretty bizarre statement coming from you - a guy who staunchly supported Wojo for 5+ years.
It is well known that TAMU, the alledged knower of ball was making excuses and supporting Wojo almost to the bitter end of Wojo. Recall some of the logic that many offered that MU owed too much money to Wojo to dump him or we are trending in the right trajectory or there is nobody else available out there or it would be a blow to the program to cut him now and so on. How soon some have forgotten all that rhetoric and debate. At least we got the guy we needed even after all the excuses cleared.
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I know you think this somehow give you credibility. All it does it prove that you based your entire evaluation of Wojo on whether or not he would prove that you had been right along about the Derrick vs. Dawson debate. Making a correct prediction based on insufficient information doesn't make one a genius, just lucky.
Ners will die on this “who was a less sh*tty point guard” hill. And then make excuses why a “good” coach didn’t agree with him. It’s all very odd.
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(https://media4.giphy.com/media/11pQizRLu1JP0c/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47z8t1clqgi3gqkr2r2g3007ouo8d0fno86t1ea2l8&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Just trying to save Ners from himself.
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It wasn't just the Dawson vs Derrick issue. It was also how Wojo "coached" Deonte Burton. It was his decision to play Haanif at PG over Traci Carter in Year 2. And how he coached JJJ that year. And then Jamal Cain. So, while I recognized it early, the evidence continued to stack up, which is why I never relented in my disapproval for him as MU's head coach.
Sorry that you didn't see it early, despite knowing ball. You're generally on target, but you really missed the mark by being a staunch Wojo supporter for 5 years. You're welcome to think I was "lucky," and have no credibility, but that's a pretty bizarre statement coming from you - a guy who staunchly supported Wojo for 5+ years.
#Notobsessed
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Just trying to save Ners from himself.
Time to waste?
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It wasn't just the Dawson vs Derrick issue. It was also how Wojo "coached" Deonte Burton. It was his decision to play Haanif at PG over Traci Carter in Year 2. And how he coached JJJ that year. And then Jamal Cain. So, while I recognized it early, the evidence continued to stack up, which is why I never relented in my disapproval for him as MU's head coach.
Sorry that you didn't see it early, despite knowing ball. You're generally on target, but you really missed the mark by being a staunch Wojo supporter for 5 years. You're welcome to think I was "lucky," and have no credibility, but that's a pretty bizarre statement coming from you - a guy who staunchly supported Wojo for 5+ years.
If you want to amend you statement to evidence piled up over multiple seasons, I would gladly agree with you. My comment was specifically about your claim that 10 games is enough evidence to "know" if a coach would work out or not.
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It is well known that TAMU, the alledged knower of ball was making excuses and supporting Wojo almost to the bitter end of Wojo. Recall some of the logic that many offered that MU owed too much money to Wojo to dump him or we are trending in the right trajectory or there is nobody else available out there or it would be a blow to the program to cut him now and so on. How soon some have forgotten all that rhetoric and debate. At least we got the guy we needed even after all the excuses cleared.
Nothing alleged about it Willie. My title was granted to me by Goose, the Grand Poobah of the Meat Eaters.
I know it is easy to mistake optimism for support when one tends towards pessimism. When it comes to things outside my control (such as Marquette basketball) I tend towards optimism. Even when a player, coach, or team is not doing well, I'd rather hope for improvement than wallow. This was posted on here not long ago, agree with every word: https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1615464939568734214
If you go through my old posts, you won't find any posts declaring Wojo a genius or claiming that he would take us to the promised land. You'll just find hope for improvement and me repeatedly maintaining that Wojo hadn't done enough to get fired until the middle of year 7...which was the year he got fired. And while it was a painful process, it ended up being for the best. No way we get Shaka if we fire Wojo any sooner. Maybe we would have gotten someone better but I doubt it. Shaka and MU seem like the perfect marriage.
You mentioned the too much money argument. I did say something along those lines in year 7 but I also gave a caveat every time I said it. It was too much money for MU. If a donor or donors stepped in to pay the buyout than he would be fired. That's what happened. If that had happened, Wojo would have been our coach last season.
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TAMU
If we could publish a MS org chart you would see that I am way down the list on Grand Poobah of the group. There are some senior members of the tribe that hold loftier positions. I might be the most vocal on MU ball, but far from the leader of the crew.
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Nothing alleged about it Willie. My title was granted to me by Goose, the Grand Poobah of the Meat Eaters.
I know it is easy to mistake optimism for support when one tends towards pessimism. When it comes to things outside my control (such as Marquette basketball) I tend towards optimism. Even when a player, coach, or team is not doing well, I'd rather hope for improvement than wallow. This was posted on here not long ago, agree with every word: https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1615464939568734214
If you go through my old posts, you won't find any posts declaring Wojo a genius or claiming that he would take us to the promised land. You'll just find hope for improvement and me repeatedly maintaining that Wojo hadn't done enough to get fired until the middle of year 7...which was the year he got fired. And while it was a painful process, it ended up being for the best. No way we get Shaka if we fire Wojo any sooner. Maybe we would have gotten someone better but I doubt it. Shaka and MU seem like the perfect marriage.
You mentioned the too much money argument. I did say something along those lines in year 7 but I also gave a caveat every time I said it. It was too much money for MU. If a donor or donors stepped in to pay the buyout than he would be fired. That's what happened. If that had happened, Wojo would have been our coach last season.
I don’t have a dog in this fight but in my opinion, “thank god we hung on to an underperforming, losing coach a whole 7 years because look how it turned out timing-wise!” isn’t a great argument
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I don’t have a dog in this fight but in my opinion, “thank god we hung on to an underperforming, losing coach a whole 7 years because look how it turned out timing-wise!” is a great argument
;D Ha!
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I don’t have a dog in this fight but in my opinion, “thank god we hung on to an underperforming, losing coach a whole 7 years because look how it turned out timing-wise!” isn’t a great argument
Are you sure that it's not a great argument?
I think you'd agree that any earlier we weren't getting Shaka. Maybe we would have gotten someone as good or better, but what do you think the likelihood of that would be? Certainly less than 50%. Personally I think it would be less than 5% given how perfectly Shaka seems to fit here. Maybe he'll prove that wrong on the future but my confidence in MUBB is at an all time high.
Of course that's made with the benefit of hindsight but this is how big boys fire a coach. You fire a coach when you have someone better lined up to replace him. In MUs case, it was Porter Moser. They knew the absolute worst they would do was Porter Moser who would have been an improvement overr Wojo. Luckily. Shaka made himself available and here we are.
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YO! So about those brackets? I don’t understand why you guys don’t block ners and willie. No basketball content from them ever, all they do is talk about Wojo. It’s a waste of time reading their stuff.
Let’s talk brackets! With all the upsets yesterday, I know there is a seed thread already. But I really think we are ripe for a 4 seed lock. And the badgers are on the outside looking in. Don’t hate that :)
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Thank heavens we were inept. Otherwise we would be in an even worse situation.
#scoop
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Are you sure that it's not a great argument?
I think you'd agree that any earlier we weren't getting Shaka. Maybe we would have gotten someone as good or better, but what do you think the likelihood of that would be? Certainly less than 50%. Personally I think it would be less than 5% given how perfectly Shaka seems to fit here. Maybe he'll prove that wrong on the future but my confidence in MUBB is at an all time high.
Of course that's made with the benefit of hindsight but this is how big boys fire a coach. You fire a coach when you have someone better lined up to replace him. In MUs case, it was Porter Moser. They knew the absolute worst they would do was Porter Moser who would have been an improvement overr Wojo. Luckily. Shaka made himself available and here we are.
Haha really?
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As someone Elon obsessively stalks and says my posts have nothing to do with the topic on hand, following this thread is very funny. Irony personified.
Maybe THIS username will convince the Scoop community he knows ball. He did dunk in high school, of course.
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As someone Elon obsessively stalks and says my posts have nothing to do with the topic on hand, following this thread is very funny. Irony personified.
Maybe THIS username will convince the Scoop community he knows ball. He did dunk in high school, of course.
;D The only dunking I ever have done is dunking a biscotti in my coffee.
OK, back to the topic. I like Oldgym's Shaka vs. VCU in round 2. Like he said, it would be fun.
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I've dunked more than my share of chips from all around the green.
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I've dunked more than my share of chips from all around the green.
Pepsi owns Frito Lay… Tostitos and Guacamole! I’m sure you have…
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Different kind of chips, but I like where you're coming from.
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Are you sure that it's not a great argument?
I think you'd agree that any earlier we weren't getting Shaka. Maybe we would have gotten someone as good or better, but what do you think the likelihood of that would be? Certainly less than 50%. Personally I think it would be less than 5% given how perfectly Shaka seems to fit here. Maybe he'll prove that wrong on the future but my confidence in MUBB is at an all time high.
Of course that's made with the benefit of hindsight but this is how big boys fire a coach. You fire a coach when you have someone better lined up to replace him. In MUs case, it was Porter Moser. They knew the absolute worst they would do was Porter Moser who would have been an improvement overr Wojo. Luckily. Shaka made himself available and here we are.
The big boys do not wait 7 years to fire an atrocious coach.
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I don’t have a dog in this fight but in my opinion, “thank god we hung on to an underperforming, losing coach a whole 7 years because look how it turned out timing-wise!” isn’t a great argument
I mean...at the end of the day we fired him at the first logical opportunity. Consider the options...
- 2015: Not firing a coach after year one with a McD's AA coming in.
- 2016: Not firing a coach after year two considering the improvement.
- 2017: The trajectory was actually pretty good, not firing a coach post NCAA appearance.
- 2018: We missed the tourney, but were bringing back what looked like a really good team with optimism around the program.
- 2019: Okay, the end sucked, but we had been ranked top-10, had the program's all-time scorer, and even after the Hausers weren't going to cut the cord yet. I think Marquette was overly generous in the extension they gave, but they had to give an extension to allow Wojo to recruit (and the 2020 class was great on paper).
- 2020: Yes, we collapsed again, but COVID basically put all firings on hold. We would've made the tourney, no way to know how it would've ended, and the world was financially unstable. It just wasn't an option.
- 2021: Second losing record, he got fired.
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The big boys do not wait 7 years to fire an atrocious coach.
They don't. They do wait until either*:
a. There are off the court issues
b. He misses the NCAAT
*Unless you're Texas in which case you will hire a guy who you will eventually run off after 6 years of no NCAAT wins and then replace that guy with woman beater while the guy you fired takes Tennessee to the current #1 team on KenPom
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I mean...at the end of the day we fired him at the first logical opportunity. Consider the options...
- 2015: Not firing a coach after year one with a McD's AA coming in.
- 2016: Not firing a coach after year two considering the improvement.
- 2017: The trajectory was actually pretty good, not firing a coach post NCAA appearance.
- 2018: We missed the tourney, but were bringing back what looked like a really good team with optimism around the program.
- 2019: Okay, the end sucked, but we had been ranked top-10, had the program's all-time scorer, and even after the Hausers weren't going to cut the cord yet. I think Marquette was overly generous in the extension they gave, but they had to give an extension to allow Wojo to recruit (and the 2020 class was great on paper).
- 2020: Yes, we collapsed again, but COVID basically put all firings on hold. We would've made the tourney, no way to know how it would've ended, and the world was financially unstable. It just wasn't an option.
- 2021: Second losing record, he got fired.
This is similar to things I've said.
The single best argument is that we never should have hired Wojo in the first place, but Shaka wasn't going to Marquette then -- we tried -- and who knows if the guy we hired would have been better or worse. The names at the time sure didn't do any better where they ended up ... which of course doesn't mean they wouldn't have done better at Marquette. Or worse.
Those who say they "knew" Wojo couldn't coach 10 games in or 2 years in or whatever, even if we believe them no sanely run program is going to fire a guy in that time frame and given what the situation was in the program.
The first time to have even thought about it would have been after the step-backward 2017-18 season, and I certainly get the argument for after the Hausers bolted ... though that still would have been a pretty bold firing.
Anyhoo, it's sure nice to see Scoop is litigating this for only the 8,422nd time, this time in the Bracketology thread!
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They don't. They do wait until either*:
a. There are off the court issues
b. He misses the NCAAT
*Unless you're Texas in which case you will hire a guy who you will eventually run off after 6 years of no NCAAT wins and then replace that guy with woman beater while the guy you fired takes Tennessee to the current #1 team on KenPom
Wow I didn't realize that but it's hilarious Texas has fired two coaches that have top 10 teams in Kenpom.
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Yes
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What happened to that 2020 class?
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Those who say they "knew" Wojo couldn't coach 10 games in or 2 years in or whatever, even if we believe them no sanely run program is going to fire a guy in that time frame and given what the situation was in the program.
Yeah, and even people who recognized early that he wasn't a huge value adder as an X's and O's coach might have appreciated his recruiting ability and thought that had a chance to be enough. If we had squeezed out one nice tourney run with the Howard/Hauser team, maybe the recruiting goes up yet another level and the program becomes successful through sheer talent accumulation.
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What happened to that 2020 class?
Dawson at Minnesota, Justin declared early, Oso might be the best collegian of them all.
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I can’t speak for Elon or anyone else, but the fact that Wojo could not coach a lick is in my rearview mirror. As TAMU said, no last year of Wojo, likely no Shaka.
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The big boys do not wait 7 years to fire an atrocious coach.
But MU did. And many did not want that to happen.
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But MU did. And many did not want that to happen.
It cost Marquette the chance to get Brian Wardle
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Nothing alleged about it Willie. My title was granted to me by Goose, the Grand Poobah of the Meat Eaters.
I know it is easy to mistake optimism for support when one tends towards pessimism. When it comes to things outside my control (such as Marquette basketball) I tend towards optimism. Even when a player, coach, or team is not doing well, I'd rather hope for improvement than wallow. This was posted on here not long ago, agree with every word: https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1615464939568734214
If you go through my old posts, you won't find any posts declaring Wojo a genius or claiming that he would take us to the promised land. You'll just find hope for improvement and me repeatedly maintaining that Wojo hadn't done enough to get fired until the middle of year 7...which was the year he got fired. And while it was a painful process, it ended up being for the best. No way we get Shaka if we fire Wojo any sooner. Maybe we would have gotten someone better but I doubt it. Shaka and MU seem like the perfect marriage.
You mentioned the too much money argument. I did say something along those lines in year 7 but I also gave a caveat every time I said it. It was too much money for MU. If a donor or donors stepped in to pay the buyout than he would be fired. That's what happened. If that had happened, Wojo would have been our coach last season.
Thank God MU pulled the trigger or cut bait, at least two years too late, on Wojo. But we have the right guy now and do not need a 7 year probationary period to figure that out. Wojos tenure was a train wreck, and Hausergate proved that out.
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Rico
That it did and caused disappointment for some fellow scoopers. Maybe they can sign him the next time there is a vacancy. Hopefully, I will be too old to care.
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Rico
That it did and caused disappointment for some fellow scoopers. Maybe they can sign him the next time there is a vacancy. Hopefully, I will be too old to care.
Me and you both
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I'm surprised that Wojo and Stan Johnson couldn't find an Xs and Os guy. That, without significant ego clashing, should have led to some excellent teams.
Instead it was 6 years of watching hero ball chucking. Historic hero ball chucking, but hero ball none the less.
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I can’t speak for Elon or anyone else, but the fact that Wojo could not coach a lick is in my rearview mirror. As TAMU said, no last year of Wojo, likely no Shaka.
The good thing is Elon doesn’t need you to speak for him. His posts speak for themselves. Wojo being unable to coach is most definitely not in the rear view mirror for him. It’s the train that he is speeding directly into head on. Hijacked threads galore with the same old stuff that has had him banned 4? 5? Times here. But he’s just the victim and if the mods knew ball he’d still be in his first username.
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Maybe we should start a new bracketology thread to discuss the bracket.
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Maybe we should start a new bracketology thread to discuss the bracket.
Sorry ... 90% of threads have to turn into "Wojo sucks." It's the Scoop Rule.
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Joe Lunardi ESPN had Marquette as the Top 4 Seed in his S Curve before Mondays games.
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1620193061308596225?s=46&t=QyxTYM5ylzhSV2a5fUYomw
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Thank God MU pulled the trigger or cut bait, at least two years too late, on Wojo. But we have the right guy now and do not need a 7 year probationary period to figure that out. Wojos tenure was a train wreck, and Hausergate proved that out.
Actually an alumnus made MU pull the trigger
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Joe Lunardi ESPN had Marquette as the Top 4 Seed in his S Curve before Mondays games.
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1620193061308596225?s=46&t=QyxTYM5ylzhSV2a5fUYomw
Nice. And that was before Iowa State crapped the bed against a team that was 0-8 in the conference.
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Thank God MU pulled the trigger or cut bait, at least two years too late, on Wojo. But we have the right guy now and do not need a 7 year probationary period to figure that out. Wojos tenure was a train wreck, and Hausergate proved that out.
So you think he should have been fired in 2019 after an NCAA appearance with everyone coming back the next year? Or in 2020 after what would have been an NCAA appearance and a McD All American coming in the next season?
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Has anyone done bracketology for wojos teams? I'd be curious which comes out on top. Also at least it pertains to the thread subject
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Nice. And that was before Iowa State crapped the bed against a team that was 0-8 in the conference.
His latest iteration has Marquette as a 3 seed in the West bracket.
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His latest iteration has Marquette as a 3 seed in the West bracket.
Don’t love the second round match up against Rutgers is that was our actual draw.
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His latest iteration has Marquette as a 3 seed in the West bracket.
Vegas baby!
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Joe Lunardi ESPN had Marquette as the Top 4 Seed in his S Curve before Mondays games.
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1620193061308596225?s=46&t=QyxTYM5ylzhSV2a5fUYomw
he obviously is not aware that Kam Jones is out and Marquette may not win another game this season...
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he obviously is not aware that Kam Jones is out and Marquette may not win another game this season...
Joneses are out
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Joneses are out
Not easy to keep out with the Joneses
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Actually an alumnus made MU pull the trigger
Not to brag, but that was me.
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Vegas baby!
Wooo! Pregame at my place!
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Wisconsin -First Four Out = Soft Bubble.
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Isn't it funny that the people typically crying about the NET are the fans of teams that really aren't that good.
Clemson fans realizing they are a bubble team have resorted to crying about the NET.
How about don't lose 3 Q4 games?
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Isn't it funny that the people typically crying about the NET are the fans of teams that really aren't that good.
Clemson fans realizing they are a bubble team have resorted to crying about the NET.
How about don't lose 3 Q4 games?
Exactly, didn’t they lose to BC tonight? They can’t be that good. The ACC is terrible this year. 7-8 teams may get in but will all lose by the second round.
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We're still the 3rd 4 seed on the BracketMatrix, but things have tightened up in the past few days. There used to a gap between us and the 2nd 4 seed but now we're right behind them and the top 4 seed. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th 3 seeds aren't that far either.
Further, every bracket that's been updated since Saturday has us as a 3 or a 4 seed whereas 2 of the 13 brackets that are still on there that haven't been updated since Saturday have us as a 5 seed and the rest as 4 seeds. My guess is that we will move up once those brackets update or are taken off for being too old.
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Things I didn't expect to say at the beginning of the season. Radford at home? Q3 win. Georgia Tech on a neutral court? Q4 win
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Things I didn't expect to say at the beginning of the season. Radford at home? Q3 win. Georgia Tech on a neutral court? Q4 win
That Mississippi State loss was big to our resume. We end up with a Q2 loss and Q4 win instead of a Q2 loss and Q1 opportunity. Win that and Utah and we'd be a 2-seed right now.
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'Utah'?
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'Utah'?
Yes, Utah.
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T-Ranketology has us as the last 3 seed
https://www.barttorvik.com/tranketology.php?
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Game by game gang. Game by game.
It’s nice to see the recognition but I’m less concerned about what some expert sees as a hypothetical seeding more than a month away than I am of Villanova and Butler.
A day at a time. Let’s kick some Wildcat backside tonight!
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Game by game gang. Game by game.
It’s nice to see the recognition but I’m less concerned about what some expert sees as a hypothetical seeding more than a month away than I am of Villanova and Butler.
A day at a time. Let’s kick some Wildcat backside tonight!
Luckily we aren’t taking the court tonight. So we can have fun speculating about our seed in the tournament.
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Game by game gang. Game by game.
It’s nice to see the recognition but I’m less concerned about what some expert sees as a hypothetical seeding more than a month away than I am of Villanova and Butler.
A day at a time. Let’s kick some Wildcat backside tonight!
Better bring us a W tonite or I'll hit your bald head with ron bottle.
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Game by game gang. Game by game.
It’s nice to see the recognition but I’m less concerned about what some be expert sees as a hypothetical seeding more than a month away than I am of Villanova and Butler.
A day at a time. Let’s kick some Wildcat backside tonight!
Yep - the COLE approach applied to message boarding…. How can you speculate about future possibilities, focus your messaging on todays game.
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Quiet, everybody. I'm trying to focus!
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Quiet, everybody. I'm trying to focus!
Well played. I actually laughed out loud.
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Yep - the COLE approach applied to message boarding…. How can you speculate about future possibilities, focus your messaging on todays game.
Isn't boarding against the law?
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Princeton in Columbus in the South Louisville Regional with #6 Seed Duke
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Any idea when ESPN typically starts to put together their more in-depth bubble watch column? I always like the conference breakdowns as the categorization (i.e. Locks, should be in, work to do, etc.).
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When does the committee release their top 4 seed lines?
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When does the committee release their top 4 seed lines?
Not sure, but it was 2/19 last year. So probably 2/18 or 2/25.
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Any idea when ESPN typically starts to put together their more in-depth bubble watch column? I always like the conference breakdowns as the categorization (i.e. Locks, should be in, work to do, etc.).
For those that subscribe the first Bubble Watch in The Athletic was posted this week.
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When does the committee release their top 4 seed lines?
The Saturday after Super Bowl Sunday.
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For those that subscribe the first Bubble Watch in The Athletic was posted this week.
Soft bubble?
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Looking at Jerry Palms bracketology from 2/3 he had marquette as the (2nd) 3 seeds. Both the last 2 seed and top 3 seed lost this weekend (Kansas St and Virginia). Which would now make us the last 2 seed. I know there is a lot of ball left but we are setting ourselves up for at least a shot at a 1/2 if we keep playing great ball.
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Looking at Jerry Palms bracketology from 2/3 he had marquette as the (2nd) 3 seeds. Both the last 2 seed and top 3 seed lost this weekend (Kansas St and Virginia). Which would now make us the last 2 seed. I know there is a lot of ball left but we are setting ourselves up for at least a shot at a 1/2 if we keep playing great ball.
I know Lunardi and Palm are the OGs, but I would strongly recommend looking elsewhere for any bracket information. They simply aren't very good at bracketology. Here are a few worth looking at:
Bauertology (https://bauertology.com/)
Delphi Bracketology (https://delphibracketology.com/)
Jonathan Warriner (http://makingthemadness.com/)
All far more accurate than Lunardi or Palm. There are a number of other good ones on Bracket Matrix (http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html).
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I know Lunardi and Palm are the OGs, but I would strongly recommend looking elsewhere for any bracket information. They simply aren't very good at bracketology. Here are a few worth looking at:
Bauertology (https://bauertology.com/)
Delphi Bracketology (https://delphibracketology.com/)
Jonathan Warriner (http://makingthemadness.com/)
All far more accurate than Lunardi or Palm. There are a number of other good ones on Bracket Matrix (http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html).
What do you think of Bracketville Dave? I have followed him for a few years and his results seem to be pretty accurate.
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What do you think of Bracketville Dave? I have followed him for a few years and his results seem to be pretty accurate.
He does a great job. Definitely someone I follow close and one of the best in the business.
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I know Lunardi and Palm are the OGs, but I would strongly recommend looking elsewhere for any bracket information. They simply aren't very good at bracketology. Here are a few worth looking at:
Bauertology (https://bauertology.com/)
Delphi Bracketology (https://delphibracketology.com/)
Jonathan Warriner (http://makingthemadness.com/)
All far more accurate than Lunardi or Palm. There are a number of other good ones on Bracket Matrix (http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html).
Thanks for that list, brew.
Northwestern plays at Madison tonight. The first bracketologist has those teams as the last 2 in, and most others also have them at or near the line. Puts some extra oomph on this game. Would be fun to see NW knock Madison to the wrong side of the line.
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Northwestern plays at Madison tonight. The first bracketologist has those teams as the last 2 in, and most others also have them at or near the line. Puts some extra oomph on this game. Would be fun to see NW knock Madison to the wrong side of the line.
You're right 82, that WAS fun!
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You're right 82, that WAS fun!
As of this morning their NET is 77. Wouldn't that be the lowest NET to ever receive an at large bid?
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As of this morning their NET is 77. Wouldn't that be the lowest NET to ever receive an at large bid?
Rutgers was 78 last year. But they also had 7 Q1 wins. And that was only good enough for the First Four.
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Rutgers was 78 last year. But they also had 7 Q1 wins. And that was only good enough for the First Four.
Gotcha, I knew it was either Rutgers last year or StJ in 2019, both of which fell somewhere in the 70's, but I was unsure of the exact number.
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ESPN currently has TAMU as first out. Buzz's letter is going to be single-spaced, double-sided, and written on an entire roll of toilet paper that wouldn't have been flushed anyway.
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Buzz just cant take winning for an answer. Has it rolling here and feels the need to jump to a basement dweller V tech. Takes that program to prominence then feels the need to jump to a school that only cares about football. like what? whatever hes made bank
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Buzz just cant take winning for an answer. Has it rolling here and feels the need to jump to a basement dweller V tech. Takes that program to prominence then feels the need to jump to a school that only cares about football. like what? whatever hes made bank
Buzz idealized the B12 (gave an interview once gushing over how much better all the fans and stadiums were than the Big East) and idealized A&M so he was always going to try to get there at some point. Of course they hilariously left the B12 and now Texas is as well which means the only two schools buzz would've dreamed about arent in his favorite conference anymore
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Buzz just cant take winning for an answer. Has it rolling here and feels the need to jump to a basement dweller V tech. Takes that program to prominence then feels the need to jump to a school that only cares about football. like what? whatever hes made bank
I just think his head will explode if they get left out again. They still have yet to face Tenn or Alabama, though, and have games remaining against Auburn and Mizzou, so I'm thinking the bracketologists are (wisely) extrapolating 3-4 more losses before the end of the season. Even still, he'll throw a fit.
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I know Lunardi and Palm are the OGs, but I would strongly recommend looking elsewhere for any bracket information. They simply aren't very good at bracketology. Here are a few worth looking at:
Bauertology (https://bauertology.com/)
Delphi Bracketology (https://delphibracketology.com/)
Jonathan Warriner (http://makingthemadness.com/)
All far more accurate than Lunardi or Palm. There are a number of other good ones on Bracket Matrix (http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html).
Why would I follow these when others have Marquette with a higher seed?
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Why would I follow these when others have Marquette with a higher seed?
So you know who to @.
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With the loss to St. Mary's, Gonzaga dropped below us on the bracketmatrix, putting us as the second highest 4-seed. Going to be hard to jump higher without winning 3 of the next 4. The two teams right above us have 7 Q1 wins apiece.
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I just think his head will explode if they get left out again. They still have yet to face Tenn or Alabama, though, and have games remaining against Auburn and Mizzou, so I'm thinking the bracketologists are (wisely) extrapolating 3-4 more losses before the end of the season. Even still, he'll throw a fit.
If he misses the tournament again, he should be fired.
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If he misses the tournament again, he should be fired.
Buzz won't get fired, they will just mess with his happy...
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN have Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Akron in Columbus in the Las Vegas Regional with the #6 Seed being Miami
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MU v Akron ? Yes please
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Uh oh - Bucky is down to the fifth team out - extend Gard!
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN have Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Akron in Columbus in the Las Vegas Regional with the #6 Seed being Miami
Fine with me, but unfortunate in one respect. You work hard all season to earn a #3 seed and you'd like to reap the benefits of that "protected seed" ( i.e. playing closer to home than Columbus, Ohio) . I mean #14 Akron has to travel about 100 miles and they could fill that Arena in Columbus.
On the other hand, there 's a first weekend site in Des Moines which hosts #3, Iowa State.
I know this is all conjecture on Lunardi's part, and it probably won't turn out that way. Nonetheless, like to get a little extra reward for that good seed. Oh well.
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Fine with me, but unfortunate in one respect. You work hard all season to earn a #3 seed and you'd like to reap the benefits of that "protected seed" ( i.e. playing closer to home than Columbus, Ohio) . I mean #14 Akron has to travel about 100 miles and they could fill that Arena in Columbus.
On the other hand, there 's a first weekend site in Des Moines which hosts #3, Iowa State.
I know this is all conjecture on Lunardi's part, and it probably won't turn out that way. Nonetheless, like to get a little extra reward for that good seed. Oh well.
Des Moines will be tough to get. Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State are all competing for that site. Marquette needs to finish ahead two of those teams on the S-curve.
Columbus is Marquette's second closest opening round site. Chicago is about halfway between Columbus and Des Moines, so fan turnout shouldn't be a problem. Purdue is a lock for Columbus. Xavier is probably the main competition for the other protected seed there.
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Fine with me, but unfortunate in one respect. You work hard all season to earn a #3 seed and you'd like to reap the benefits of that "protected seed" ( i.e. playing closer to home than Columbus, Ohio) . I mean #14 Akron has to travel about 100 miles and they could fill that Arena in Columbus.
On the other hand, there 's a first weekend site in Des Moines which hosts #3, Iowa State.
I know this is all conjecture on Lunardi's part, and it probably won't turn out that way. Nonetheless, like to get a little extra reward for that good seed. Oh well.
The closest options are Des Moines and Columbus. Both are an easy drive from Milwaukee.
And Akron averages 2,000 fans for a home game. They aren't filling an arena in Columbus. Marquette would have more fans there.
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Des Moines will be tough to get. Kansas, Kansas State, and Iowa State are all competing for that site. Marquette needs to finish ahead two of those teams on the S-curve.
Columbus is Marquette's second closest opening round site. Chicago is about halfway between Columbus and Des Moines, so fan turnout shouldn't be a problem. Purdue is a lock for Columbus. Xavier is probably the main competition for the other protected seed there.
Oddly enough, a 3 in Columbus and sharing with Purdue would be good for us. I have a feeling Purdue fans would root for us (they really like to invade comment sections about marquette and talking about how good we are and how we are a great win for them).
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Joe Lunardi ESPN’s latest tweet today has Marquette as the Top Four Seed.
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1623824061930299394?s=46&t=yLmzdtDHmQJzvZF8Lp8WuA
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Oddly enough, a 3 in Columbus and sharing with Purdue would be good for us. I have a feeling Purdue fans would root for us (they really like to invade comment sections about marquette and talking about how good we are and how we are a great win for them).
Purdue's guards will not want to see a quick team that can press in the tournament. Obviously there is no real answer for Edey. I'd be inclined to vary the doubles with him but almost accept he's going to get 25 and not let their auxiliary players go off.
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Joe Lunardi ESPN’s latest tweet today has Marquette as the Top Four Seed.
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1623824061930299394?s=46&t=yLmzdtDHmQJzvZF8Lp8WuA
MU is immediately followed by X and UConn as 4 seeds in this bracket. Madison is one of the first 4 out.
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Multiple people have Marquette as a 4 playing 13 VCU as of this morning.
That would be a matchup the NCAA would absolutely love. The Shaka Bowl in round 1.
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MU v Akron ? Yes please
Why do you want to lose to Akron?
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Joe Lunardi ESPN today has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Utah Valley State in Albany with #5 Seed Saint Mary’s playing #12 Seed VCU
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I think we end up a 5 seed. As much as I want us to be a 4 seed. I think there is just potential for teams behind us to jump us. And potential for us to not improve our resume at this point.
A win at home v X and then hold serve in games we are favorited in just isn’t enough to move us up and don’t think it does much for us to stay still. Obviously brew would know more but just my inkling.
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I think we end up a 5 seed. As much as I want us to be a 4 seed. I think there is just potential for teams behind us to jump us. And potential for us to not improve our resume at this point.
A win at home v X and then hold serve in games we are favorited in just isn’t enough to move us up and don’t think it does much for us to stay still. Obviously brew would know more but just my inkling.
My perception is that there is a pretty decent size gap on the S-Curve between the 4 seeds and the 5 seeds. Maybe others would disagree, but I think there is a pretty clear top 16 at the moment and a bit of mess behind them. I think it would take a pretty bad finish for us to fall into 5-seed territory.
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I think it would take a pretty bad finish for us to fall into 5-seed territory.
So, Knower, what you're saying is that we end up a 7 seed, right?
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T Rank futurecast projects a 5 seed if MU goes 3-3, a 4 seed at 4-2, and a 3 seed at 5-1/6-0.
The wins against Baylor, UConn, and Creighton are aging well. That's three top 15 wins (Q1A home). Marquette has a strong resume already.
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I think we end up a 5 seed. As much as I want us to be a 4 seed. I think there is just potential for teams behind us to jump us. And potential for us to not improve our resume at this point.
A win at home v X and then hold serve in games we are favorited in just isn’t enough to move us up and don’t think it does much for us to stay still. Obviously brew would know more but just my inkling.
Miami and St. Mary's have limited opportunities the rest of the way as well.
Goes 5-2 with a win against Xavier or Creighton and I think a 4 is safe by a decent margin.
No losses outside of Q1 and Q2 as of now.
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My perception is that there is a pretty decent size gap on the S-Curve between the 4 seeds and the 5 seeds. Maybe others would disagree, but I think there is a pretty clear top 16 at the moment and a bit of mess behind them. I think it would take a pretty bad finish for us to fall into 5-seed territory.
You da man for this response! Thanks man!
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Miami and St. Mary's have limited opportunities the rest of the way as well.
Goes 5-2 with a win against Xavier or Creighton and I think a 4 is safe by a decent margin.
No losses outside of Q1 and Q2 as of now.
Appreciate the knowledge on other teams opportunities GE03!
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T Rank futurecast projects a 5 seed if MU goes 3-3, a 4 seed at 4-2, and a 3 seed at 5-1/6-0.
The wins against Baylor, UConn, and Creighton are aging well. That's three top 15 wins (Q1A home). Marquette has a strong resume already.
🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
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Joe Lunardi ESPN tweet from earlier today
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1624417142564179969?s=46&t=TuPvEuRh9nZXkagdDjAmQA
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Joe Lunardi ESPN tweet from earlier today
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1624417142564179969?s=46&t=TuPvEuRh9nZXkagdDjAmQA
Pac 12 with only 3 teams in and two of them are UCLA and USC who are both bolting for the B10.
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Pac 12 with only 3 teams in and two of them are UCLA and USC who are both bolting for the B10.
That league is in big trouble. I think it’s going to quickly become the big 4 plus the Big East in basketball.
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The Athletic's Brian Bennett has Marquette as a #4 seed, playing Southern Miss in Albany. Miami is the 5 in that bracket, and Purdue is the 1.
https://theathletic.com/4172215/2023/02/10/ncaa-tournament-bracket-mock-predictions-houston-north-carolina-kentucky/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=6077520
He also has North Carolina and Kentucky meeting in the first 4, and has Madison as the last team in (meeting New Mexico in Dayton).
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Halftime of MSU/OSU...CBS crew showed their 1 seeds and 2 seeds.
Had Tennessee and Indiana as 2s. L.O.L.
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Halftime of MSU/OSU...CBS crew showed their 1 seeds and 2 seeds.
Had Tennessee and Indiana as 2s. L.O.L.
Women's basketball? I hope.
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Halftime of MSU/OSU...CBS crew showed their 1 seeds and 2 seeds.
Had Tennessee and Indiana as 2s. L.O.L.
(A) Debate and discussion sparked
(B) Sleep on IU at your peril.
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The guy at the Athletic is wrong
After the debacle at Nebraska, no WAY the Rodents are in the dance
And … ain’t no way NC plays UK in first 4
( yes … obviously a ways to go )
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(A) Debate and discussion sparked
(B) Sleep on IU at your peril.
They should have lost to Michigan last night, they’re average.
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They should have lost to Michigan last night, they’re average.
Different team when healthy
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(A) Debate and discussion sparked
(B) Sleep on IU at your peril.
I could see IU and/or Creighton in the Final Four. Neither are #2 seeds as of today.
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(A) Debate and discussion sparked
(B) Sleep on IU at your peril.
It's possible to not sleep on IU...while also recognizing they are not currently a 2 seed.
It's also possible to spark debate without saying ridiculous things.
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(A) Debate and discussion sparked
(B) Sleep on IU at your peril.
I think IU has Final Four upside, but they are not in the conversation for a 2. 4-6 right now, but trending up.
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I’ve watched a few IU games because my son is a freshman there. Interesting team. Offense is essentially the dashed last name guys. No bench. No outside game at all. I truly believe on a neutral court Marquette could hold their own against them.
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I’ve watched a few IU games because my son is a freshman there. Interesting team. Offense is essentially the dashed last name guys. No bench. No outside game at all. I truly believe on a neutral court Marquette could hold their own against them.
I believe MU woulde be a slight favorite.
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They should have lost to Michigan last night, they’re average.
Winning a conference road game with two starters out and a replacement starter limited due to injury. OK.
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The guy at the Athletic is wrong
After the debacle at Nebraska, no WAY the Rodents are in the dance
And … ain’t no way NC plays UK in first 4
( yes … obviously a ways to go )
The Pine Club line would be a mile long
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I believe MU woulde be a slight favorite.
IU beats Marquette by 7-10 pts on a neutral court.
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IU beats Marquette by 7-10 pts on a neutral court.
In football, just maybe. Not in basketball
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I’ve watched a few IU games because my son is a freshman there. Interesting team. Offense is essentially the dashed last name guys. No bench. No outside game at all. I truly believe on a neutral court Marquette could hold their own against them.
My daughter is a freshman at IU so I’ve adopted them as my second team. Going to IU vs Illinois next weekend in Bloomington. I’ve watched a decent amount of their games this year. Jackson-Davis can flat out play - a super star college player. Great rebounder. A game between MU and IU would be really good.
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TJD and Hood-Schifino combined for 49 of IU's points in their win at Michigan. A 6'7 point guard. TJD is averaging 20 and 11 for the season, 28 and 16 in the last few weeks. The rest are role players who can get hot occasionally. Almost all in the switchable category, size wise. They switch 4, usually leaving TJD to guard the post. If Thompson and Johnson are healthy by tourney time, IU is a final 4 candidate. The last odds I saw had them at 40-1, just like MU.
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IU beats Marquette by 7-10 pts on a neutral court.
Thank you!
I said a week ago that Big Ten fans think the Bucks would finish in the middle of the Big 10.
I rest my case.
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My perception is that there is a pretty decent size gap on the S-Curve between the 4 seeds and the 5 seeds. Maybe others would disagree, but I think there is a pretty clear top 16 at the moment and a bit of mess behind them. I think it would take a pretty bad finish for us to fall into 5-seed territory.
When I wrote this, I didn't count Indiana in my top 16. I still think they are on the outside, but they are bridging that gap between the 4 and 5 seeds IMHO. 17 teams competing for 16 protected seeds.
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IU beats Marquette by 7-10 pts on a neutral court.
The man behind this account definitely lives in Rhinelander and dropped out of UW-Platteville, but you’d never know it with his undying support for badgers sports
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IU beats Marquette by 7-10 pts on a neutral court.
I agree with the idea that IU is underrated, many of their losses was during a difficult stretch of B10 play where they had multiple rotation players out, they’re probably the second best team in the league. Probably about a 3-4 fave on a neutral court against MU.
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Without Thompson or Johnson, I think MU wins on a neutral floor. With Thompson and Johnson both playing at their best, I think IU is favored.
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I try to keep up as much as I can with Bracketology.
Question was just asked on FIELDING THE 68 Bracket Show..."What team has been comfortably in the field all season that is trending towards missing the tournament?"
Both guys that answered said Providence. Interesting.
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I try to keep up as much as I can with Bracketology.
Question was just asked on FIELDING THE 68 Bracket Show..."What team has been comfortably in the field all season that is trending towards missing the tournament?"
Both guys that answered said Providence. Interesting.
There are not even close to missing the tournament.
Would have to epically collapse to miss. Which no chance they do even if they lose all the games against the good teams.
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There are not even close to missing the tournament.
Would have to epically collapse to miss. Which no chance they do even if they lose all the games against the good teams.
They said 0 NC wins inside the 200 of the NET along with low Q1 and Q2 wins should have them more nervous than the rest they are grouped with.
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I agree with the idea that IU is underrated, many of their losses was during a difficult stretch of B10 play where they had multiple rotation players out, they’re probably the second best team in the league. Probably about a 3-4 fave on a neutral court against MU.
Looking at both KP and TRank, MU would be favored by 2 points on a neutral court.
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I try to keep up as much as I can with Bracketology.
Question was just asked on FIELDING THE 68 Bracket Show..."What team has been comfortably in the field all season that is trending towards missing the tournament?"
Both guys that answered said Providence. Interesting.
They're okay for now. The UConn and Marquette wins aren't going anywhere, but I do see the reasons for concern. 5-7 away from the Dunk, #271 NCSOS, and a resume average of 43.5. If they lose tonight and their two road games (UConn, Georgetown) they would be in some trouble. Tonight is their last sure chance to add a Q1 with Xavier fading a bit. Their surface numbers are good, but if they do get closer to the 11-line (I have they as the last 8 currently) there are some areas that are worrisome.
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Joe Lunardi ESPN today has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Hofstra in Columbus pod seed am guessing with the #6 Seed being Iowa
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Joe Lunardi ESPN today has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Hofstra in Columbus pod seed am guessing with the #6 Seed being Iowa
I would take that draw in a second. We would get to face former Herman Cain "excellent" recruit Darlinstone Dubar.
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I would take that draw in a second. We would get to face former Herman Cain "excellent" recruit Darlinstone Dubar.
I'd love that draw as well.
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They're okay for now. The UConn and Marquette wins aren't going anywhere, but I do see the reasons for concern. 5-7 away from the Dunk, #271 NCSOS, and a resume average of 43.5. If they lose tonight and their two road games (UConn, Georgetown) they would be in some trouble. Tonight is their last sure chance to add a Q1 with Xavier fading a bit. Their surface numbers are good, but if they do get closer to the 11-line (I have they as the last 8 currently) there are some areas that are worrisome.
They will be an interesting case - they sit at 43 on the S Curve - behind teams like UNC, Pitt, Memphis, WVU…yet their percentage to grab a 1-4 seed matches those of teams in the mid 20s.
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They will be an interesting case - they sit at 43 on the S Curve - behind teams like UNC, Pitt, Memphis, WVU…yet their percentage to grab a 1-4 seed matches those of teams in the mid 20s.
Providence? Whose S-Curve has them at 43? I've got them at 32 right now. 43 would be really low, IMO.
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They will be an interesting case - they sit at 43 on the S Curve - behind teams like UNC, Pitt, Memphis, WVU…yet their percentage to grab a 1-4 seed matches those of teams in the mid 20s.
The average of 100 bracketologists on bracketmatrix has them as the top 8 seed at the moment. That would make them 29th on the S-Curve. Someone might have them at 43rd but they would be an outlier.
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I would take that draw in a second. We would get to face former Herman Cain "excellent" recruit Darlinstone Dubar.
How has Dubar's neck developed?
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Providence is definitely trending in the wrong direction. ::)
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN had Marquette as his 3rd #3 Seed in his S Curve
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1626248560869097472?s=46&t=BsJNupERCp_pMZERFLkLkQ
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/bracketology-bubble-watch-kentucky-picks-up-win-vs-mississippi-state-usc-takes-on-cal/
As of 5 hours ago Jerry Palm only has 10 teams as locks to make the tournament.
That guy really is an idiot.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/bracketology-bubble-watch-kentucky-picks-up-win-vs-mississippi-state-usc-takes-on-cal/
As of 5 hours ago Jerry Palm only has 10 teams as locks to make the tournament.
That guy really is an idiot.
LOL. I'm surprised Ohio St isn't one of his locks.
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Marquette is a 3 seed on Bracket Matrix, 11th on the S-Curve. There are 6 teams competing for two 3 seeds.
The top 10 looks pretty clear above this group. Then there's a bit of a dropoff to the 5 seeds behind it. But not an insurmountable one.
Marquette seeding scenarios:
Best case: 3 seed.
Most likely: 4 seed
Worst case: 5 seed.
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Marquette is a 3 seed on Bracket Matrix, 11th on the S-Curve. There are 6 teams competing for two 3 seeds.
The top 10 looks pretty clear above this group. Then there's a bit of a dropoff to the 5 seeds behind it. But not an insurmountable one.
Marquette seeding scenarios:
Best case: 3 seed.
Most likely: 4 seed
Worst case: 5 seed.
The reveal should tell us a lot this weekend. So great that that will be appointment television for MU fans.
Hoping we can get a 3 seed. We do pretty well from that spot.
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The respected bracketologists that I follow that have updated their brackets after MU’s win over Xavier all have moved MU into a 3 seed playing in Columbus. Those 10-20 spots on the seed list are pretty hotly contested, and MU might need a win over Creighton to hold that spot.
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Marquette is a 3 seed on Bracket Matrix, 11th on the S-Curve. There are 6 teams competing for two 3 seeds.
The top 10 looks pretty clear above this group. Then there's a bit of a dropoff to the 5 seeds behind it. But not an insurmountable one.
Marquette seeding scenarios:
Best case: 3 seed.
Most likely: 4 seed
Worst case: 5 seed.
Yep and there's a pretty sizeable gap between the 4 seed and 5 seed line. We would really have to fall off a cliff (and Indiana would have to win out the regular season with none of the other teams competing for a 3 seed also falling off a cliff) for us to fall to the 5 seed line IMHO. Two seed is theoretically possible but we would need to win out the regular season and get a lot of help.
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We are closer to being the last 2 seed than we are to being the second 5 seed.
Like TAMU, though, I'd say a 2 is highly unlikely. But a 3 is there for the taking -- and our seed won't be any worse than a 4 because even if Creighton beats us, we ain't gonna lose any of our final three games.
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Eastern Washington.
Again in Columbus as a Pod Seed I believe with Iowa as the #6 Seed again.
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Eastern Washington.
Again in Columbus as a Pod Seed I believe with Iowa as the #6 Seed again.
He also had Hofstra as both a 13 seed and a 14 seed in the same region. For someone who's supposed to specialize in exactly one thing, he's remarkably bad at it.
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Eastern Washington.
Again in Columbus as a Pod Seed I believe with Iowa as the #6 Seed again.
EWU has won 16 in a row and is 14-0 in Big Sky play. 13th in the nation in effective fg%. Terrible turnover rate on offense, good defensive rebounding team. Plays above average pace. 122nd in KenPom. Would be a tough 14-seed but not a terrible matchup
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The reveal should tell us a lot this weekend. So great that that will be appointment television for MU fans.
Hoping we can get a 3 seed. We do pretty well from that spot.
So glad I get to wake up with something meaningful to watch on Saturday morning even with Marquette not playing until Tuesday!
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Rather than looking at individual bracketology "experts" I recommend referencing Bracketmatrix.com, which combines all of the major ones. It also ranks them so you can see who are generally the most accurate
Has MU as the 3rd 3 seed right now
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
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Someone at The Athletic has a sense of humor.
Placed Marquette as a three-seed in Columbus (boo!) against Colgate.
The winner would play the winner of a first round 6/11 match between the State University of Iowa and Texas A&M University.
Can you imagine the bloodbath the MU alumni base would want if the second round match-up was between Coach Shaka and the Redneck/Hillbilly?
That would be worth traveling to Columbus to participate in the heckling/harassment of the Redneck/Hillbilly.
TAMU, Knower of Ball, what would be your take on this?
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ESPN has a possible rematch with UNC in the round of 32. Iowa and Kentucky the other possibilities.
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Someone at The Athletic has a sense of humor.
Placed Marquette as a three-seed in Columbus (boo!) against Colgate.
The winner would play the winner of a first round 6/11 match between the State University of Iowa and Texas A&M University.
Can you imagine the bloodbath the MU alumni base would want if the second round match-up was between Coach Shaka and the Redneck/Hillbilly?
That would be worth traveling to Columbus to participate in the heckling/harassment of the Redneck/Hillbilly.
TAMU, Knower of Ball, what would be your take on this?
Anyone have a stack of the old Chicago tribune front pages we can throw at him?
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ESPN has a possible rematch with UNC in the round of 32. Iowa and Kentucky the other possibilities.
God I hope not. We've been paying for our one win against UNC ever since 1977. I don't think we ever will beat them again!
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God I hope not. We've been paying for our one win against UNC ever since 1977. I don't think we ever will beat them again!
We beat them 2 years ago.
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That was under Wojo. It doesn't count.
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We beat them 2 years ago.
You sure that wasn't a "B" Team game?
They sucked that year and so did we!
As Brother Tower said, "That was under Wojo. It doesn't count!"
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Rather than looking at individual bracketology "experts" I recommend referencing Bracketmatrix.com, which combines all of the major ones. It also ranks them so you can see who are generally the most accurate
Has MU as the 3rd 3 seed right now
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
I'm a fan of bracketmatrix...but I'm not sure they combine "all of the major ones". I think they put any bracketology they can find on there. I used to do a "way too early bracketology" every summer as a fun article. It got added to bracketmatrix somehow.
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ESPN has a possible rematch with UNC in the round of 32. Iowa and Kentucky the other possibilities.
That means theres a chance we could get UW, Kentucky, or UNC in the 2nd round as they all are in play-in territory. Interesting!
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Someone at The Athletic has a sense of humor.
Placed Marquette as a three-seed in Columbus (boo!) against Colgate.
The winner would play the winner of a first round 6/11 match between the State University of Iowa and Texas A&M University.
Can you imagine the bloodbath the MU alumni base would want if the second round match-up was between Coach Shaka and the Redneck/Hillbilly?
That would be worth traveling to Columbus to participate in the heckling/harassment of the Redneck/Hillbilly.
TAMU, Knower of Ball, what would be your take on this?
I believe that the Redneck/Hillbilly is affectionately known here s the phony downhome lonesome cowboy.
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I believe that the Redneck/Hillbilly is affectionately known here s the phony downhome lonesome cowboy.
Brother Willie:
Same a$$hole. 😂
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I'm a fan of bracketmatrix...but I'm not sure they combine "all of the major ones". I think they put any bracketology they can find on there. I used to do a "way too early bracketology" every summer as a fun article. It got added to bracketmatrix somehow.
Congrats on being a major bracket! /s
I guess I meant that they include all the major ones. Plus a bunch of other not so big ones.
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I put all my faith in Cracked Sidewalks' bracketologist, whoever the hell that is.
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Gimme Bazz, would love to watch Marquette run it up on him
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Joe Lunardi Just said on ESPN the only change he would make with the reveal would have been to put UCONN in.
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Southern Mississippi in Birmingham
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Southern Mississippi in Birmingham
Battle of the golden eagles
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #4 Seed playing #13 Seed Southern Mississippi in Birmingham
At first glance, it appears he got lazy and just adjusted his top four to match the top 16 reveal.
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At first glance, it appears he got lazy and just adjusted his top four to match the top 16 reveal.
Joe has been lazy and poor at his job for 10+ years. He is simply a TV personality and not a reliable or good analyst.
That said, according to him, all of our losses are to tourney teams. That is something that (along with many other data points) should warrant a 3 seed.
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At first glance, it appears he got lazy and just adjusted his top four to match the top 16 reveal.
If the goal is to produce a bracket that is as close to possible the actual one, it would be foolish not to make adjustments based on the top 16 reveal.
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Joe has been lazy and poor at his job for 10+ years. He is simply a TV personality and not a reliable or good analyst.
That said, according to him, all of our losses are to tourney teams. That is something that (along with many other data points) should warrant a 3 seed.
I agree with your take on Lunardi. His bracketology is nothing more than click bait. Rarely accurate, and his picks and brackets are often contradictory.
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If the goal is to produce a bracket that is as close to possible the actual one, it would be foolish not to make adjustments based on the top 16 reveal.
But if you project a bracket one week after the Selection Committee's reveal and a hundred games, should you not adjust for actual game results?
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But if you project a bracket one week after the Selection Committee's reveal and a hundred games, should you not adjust for actual game results?
Exactly - the committee admitted that they did their rankings based on results through last Tuesday. Lot of stuff has happened since then.
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Exactly - the committee admitted that they did their rankings based on results through last Tuesday. Lot of stuff has happened since then.
This to me was mind numbing (and lazy). Release them Wed AM then. This only caused confusion and a complete lack of confidence.
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This to me was mind numbing (and lazy). Release them Wed AM then. This only caused confusion and a complete lack of confidence.
Or meet Wed, Thur, and Fri instead of Mon, Tues, Wed.
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Or meet Wed, Thur, and Fri instead of Mon, Tues, Wed.
The committee chair didn’t inspire a lot of confidence in their process based on his answers to the questions.
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The committee chair didn’t inspire a lot of confidence in their process based on his answers to the questions.
That’s what you get for giving a guy from Bradley the job
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....Brian Wardle calling on Line One... :o
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Joe Lunardi ESPN tonight has Marquette as a #3 Seed
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#10 at Bracketville today.
https://bracketville.wordpress.com/seed-list/
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Is it me or does it feel like no one is updating their brackets this week? Lundardi, the athletic, Palm all haven't done anything outside of update the bubble watch.
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Is it me or does it feel like no one is updating their brackets this week? Lundardi, the athletic, Palm all haven't done anything outside of update the bubble watch.
Add Brew to this list! 😂
Hopefully they aren’t waiting for the others to copy cat…
I kid.
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Add Brew to this list! 😂
Hopefully they aren’t waiting for the others to copy cat…
I kid.
Lunardi drops his on Tuesday and Friday.
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Lunardi drops his on Tuesday and Friday.
If you're not dropping one every day, you should see a Gastroenterologist.
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If you're not dropping one every day, you should see a Gastroenterologist.
Lunardi does seem a bit puffy.
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Bracket Matrix still has Virginia ahead of MU despite their impressive showing at Boston College. We're the last #3.
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Bracket Matrix still has Virginia ahead of MU despite their impressive showing at Boston College. We're the last #3.
Yes, but about 2/3rds of the brackets that are used in bracketmatrix haven't been updated since their loss to BC. It's a good tool to use, but it usually drags by a few days. Only 4 of the the 35 brackets that have been released since that loss have UVA ahead of us, and one of them has UVA as a 6 and one that has them as an 8 (seems extreme IMO).
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Lunardi has us as a 3 in Columbus vs toledo.
nw or play-in winner after
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Lunardi has us as a 3 in Columbus vs toledo.
nw or play-in winner after
Gimme NW
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Gimme NW
In a conference of overrated teams, they might be at the top.
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Bracket Matrix still has Virginia ahead of MU despite their impressive showing at Boston College. We're the last #3.
What DJO said. BracketMatrix is an aggregator of dozens of different bracketoligists. You can look and see what each individual bracketoligist seeded each team as. If you look at the top row, you will see a nickname for each bracketoligist and a date under each nickname. The date is when that bracket was last updated. They keep brackets that have been updated within the last four days. So 72/107 brackets on bracketmatrix haven't been updated since before UVA lost to BC. As DJO noted, the majority of bracketogists have UVA on the same seed line or below us. Only 4/35 have Virginia above us.
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Lunardi has us as a 3 in Columbus vs toledo.
nw or play-in winner after
Thank You and According to Lunardi Play in winner would be Winner of #11 Seeds Oklahoma State versus USC
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Gimme that draw all day long.
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In a conference of overrated teams, they might be at the top.
Yeah don't get me wrong we could lose that game. But as far as teams you could potentially play in final 32 from a high major, yeah I want it.
I get it they play great D. But their offense is horrendous while our D is underrated imo. Their best strengths are their high volume guards. Stevie and Tk can really help with that.
And most importatly while NU is great defensively as I said. They are not some mountain of a team. They wont be throwing Uconn size at us and crashing glass.
Anything can happen, but I like that one a lot.
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I’d prefer to avoid 6 seed TCU
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I’d prefer to avoid 6 seed TCU
Me too. That's the best 6 seed for sure.
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What's the Scooper take on the best #2 seed for now? Zona?
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What's the Scooper take on the best #2 seed for now? Zona?
Texas is the top 2 seed followed by Arizona. Depending on who you ask Baylor or UCLA is next on the S-Curve.
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I would love to be on Lunardi's "3" seed line in Orlando.
The winner gets the winner of the Wisconsin/Mississippi State match-up (assuming they beat their TCU). That would be F-U-N!!!! Be nice to kick some rodent a*s in the NCAAs!
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Bracket Matrix looks to be currently updating. MU is obviously now ahead of Virginia with more current updates.
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What's the Scooper take on the best #2 seed for now? Zona?
I’ve been saying for a month or so that Arizona and Uconn are the only two teams that scare me. I’d love to avoid them
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USA Today has us as a 2 in Des Moines playing Vermont. Possible secret scrimmage rematch or an ice cream social facing either Mizzou or the fighting Joey Hausers
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I’ve been saying for a month or so that Arizona and Uconn are the only two teams that scare me. I’d love to avoid them
Houston should too.
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USA Today has us as a 2 in Des Moines playing Vermont. Possible secret scrimmage rematch or an ice cream social facing either Mizzou or the fighting Joey Hausers
🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨SCOOP MELTDOWN🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
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🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨SCOOP MELTDOWN🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨🚨
Tripping contest between Pal Joey and OMax?
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The Athletic has us with a 2nd round match up against Northwestern, and a potential S16 match up with Texas or Texas A&M. Lotta popcorn there
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USA Today has us as a 2 in Des Moines playing Vermont. Possible secret scrimmage rematch or an ice cream social facing either Mizzou or the fighting Joey Hausers
Wouldn't it be sweet to stick it...ah, you know the rest.
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Wouldn't it be sweet to stick it...ah, you know the rest.
Can Chase Ross's ballsac play the role of Ja Morant to Joey's mug
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USA Today has us as a 2 in Des Moines playing Vermont. Possible secret scrimmage rematch or an ice cream social facing either Mizzou or the fighting Joey Hausers
Then I could cheer against daughter number 2's university.
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What's the Scooper take on the best #2 seed for now? Zona?
Arizona or Texas. I lean the Longhorns because they don't lose to non-tourney teams. The most suspect 2 I think is UCLA. Metrically great, but no real impressive wins.
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Looks like most brackets have been updated on Bracket Matrix.
All but Torvik and one other have Marquette as a 3 seed. T-Rank still has them as a 4
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Looks like most brackets have been updated on Bracket Matrix.
All but Torvik and one other have Marquette as a 3 seed. T-Rank still has them as a 4
Who is Torvik? We're without question a #3 seed with the potential to snag a #2.
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Who is Torvik? We're without question a #3 seed with the potential to snag a #2.
Badger alum so the algorithm is skewed against MU.
In all seriousness, I think his is purely data driven. Maybe by comparing similar resumes to past teams.
I just checked the site and it also states it is a projection of actual Selection Sunday, and isn’t just a “if the season ended today” type of projection. So, there’s projections based on future games.
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Houston should too.
I now live in Houston and took my employees to the game against Tulane on Wednesday. Seeing the Cougars in person provided plenty of evidence supporting their Vegas favoritism for the tournament
Marcus Sasser and Jamal Shead form one the best backcourt combos in the country. They are seasoned players who’ve tasted post-season success. The rebounding display from this team was beyond impressive, and the coaching factor also can’t be understated. Kelvin Sampson lost four starters from the ‘21/‘22 Final Four team and still made a run to the Elite Eight a year ago.
Watching Houston vanquish a fairly good Tulane squad on Wednesday night was quite an experience. The KenPom numbers match what I witnessed in person - an unrelenting team on both ends of the floor. I think Vegas has it right. The Cougars are a good bet to make the FF in their hometown. I don’t want to be in Houston’s region come Selection Sunday.
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Looks like most brackets have been updated on Bracket Matrix.
All but Torvik and one other have Marquette as a 3 seed. T-Rank still has them as a 4
I agree we need some help for a 2 - but some of the help is structural - 3 of the 4 B12 teams are gauranteed to lose one more time and there are a total of 2 gauranteed losses left for UCLA and AZ - I think if we win the BET and neither AZ nor KSU win out we pass them both - I just don't see how the committee keeps a team that has won 9 straight, 14/15 - BE regular season title by 2 games and BET title - which will have included 2 more wins against likely 5ish seeds below the 4th place SEC team or 2nd place Pac 12 team.
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One thing that isn't really talked about much that should be is how well the lower seeds have faired in the NCAA Tournament. It was almost guaranteed that if you were a 1,2 or 3 seed that you would be playing in the 2nd round. The highlight reels prove that because they still have the Hampton over Iowa state 15 upsetting a 2. Losses by 2 seeds to 15 just didn't happen. Its almost becoming the normal that a 2 or 3 gets bounced in the first round. With that said because there is more parity and even more so now with the NIL for smaller schools these upsets will occur more often in my opinion.
This leads me to my point that no matter what seed we end up getting 2 or 3 the 2nd round game is by no way a gimmy. No one here has said that but if you are playing in the 2nd round its because you are a good team capable of moving on. Look at Kentucky last year losing to 15 seed St. Peters. Every team needs to bring there A game even for the opening round of they will be going home fast. This is what makes the tournament the best sporting event of the year.
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I agree we need some help for a 2 - but some of the help is structural - 3 of the 4 B12 teams are gauranteed to lose one more time and there are a total of 2 gauranteed losses left for UCLA and AZ - I think if we win the BET and neither AZ nor KSU win out we pass them both - I just don't see how the committee keeps a team that has won 9 straight, 14/15 - BE regular season title by 2 games and BET title - which will have included 2 more wins against likely 5ish seeds below the 4th place SEC team or 2nd place Pac 12 team.
I've had this argument with a few members here. I believe in this logic as well which is why for the last month I have been saying this is a 2 seed team. Everytime time I brough up this argument, I was countered with Net ranking, Q1 wins, resume Etc... And I get all that, but at the end of the day Marquette won the 2nd best conference by what could be 2 games, and most likely 25-6 before the conference tournament. If they go on to be 28-6 on most years thats a resume of a 1 seed. I get that Texas and Baylor have more quad 1 wins, but at the end of the day they didnt win there conference and Baylor has lost at minimum 3 more games n than Marquette including getting blasted by them by 30. That needs to factor in at some part for a tiebreaker if its close.
Also, to be completely honest im not sold on the Big12 being the best. ESPN will tell you they are and they beat the crap out of each other to boost there resumes but the last time this happened with the B12 if I remember correctly they had to 3 seeds upset in the first round with Baylor and Iowa st. Would not surprise me in the least to see that happen again.
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I agree we need some help for a 2 - but some of the help is structural - 3 of the 4 B12 teams are gauranteed to lose one more time and there are a total of 2 gauranteed losses left for UCLA and AZ - I think if we win the BET and neither AZ nor KSU win out we pass them both - I just don't see how the committee keeps a team that has won 9 straight, 14/15 - BE regular season title by 2 games and BET title - which will have included 2 more wins against likely 5ish seeds below the 4th place SEC team or 2nd place Pac 12 team.
Agreed and well said.
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No matter which team you play in the second round, you better bring your A game. The predicted brackets are filled with teams that will be a real challenge for MU. I have watched a lot of b'ball this year and am convinced that Houston is the most likely team to win it all but there is no absolute lock to win it. Kansas has its flaws as do Purdue and virtually everyone else, but there a lot of very good teams out there. I am not sure how the BE compares to other conferences this year, but I have seen enough Big 12 games this year to know that it is better this year than the BE and probably the strongest conference in the country. I am not at all sure that a team like Providence would fare very well in the Big 12. The Big 12 probably has 3 or 4 teams who could win the BE conference, but I am not sure the BE has any who could win the Big 12. So, in the second round, I prefer to see MU avoid Big 12 teams, though that may not be possible.
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Palm has us as a 2 seed right now.
Unfortunately hes also one of the bigger idiots at this, so its meaningless.
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No matter which team you play in the second round, you better bring your A game. The predicted brackets are filled with teams that will be a real challenge for MU. I have watched a lot of b'ball this year and am convinced that Houston is the most likely team to win it all but there is no absolute lock to win it. Kansas has its flaws as do Purdue and virtually everyone else, but there a lot of very good teams out there. I am not sure how the BE compares to other conferences this year, but I have seen enough Big 12 games this year to know that it is better this year than the BE and probably the strongest conference in the country. I am not at all sure that a team like Providence would fare very well in the Big 12. The Big 12 probably has 3 or 4 teams who could win the BE conference, but I am not sure the BE has any who could win the Big 12. So, in the second round, I prefer to see MU avoid Big 12 teams, though that may not be possible.
I hear what you're saying regarding the B12 but I'm gonna disagree about avoiding them based on the fact that the two most likely 2nd round opponents would be Iowa St. and TCU. I've watched these two teams pretty closely, they're inconsistent. I would take Iowa St. in the Rd of 32 just as I would any of the likely 6 seeds if we're a 3. Frankly, there isn't a single team I'm deeply concerned about as a match-up problem for MU with the exception of Houston.
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Palm has us as a 2 seed right now.
Unfortunately hes also one of the bigger idiots at this, so its meaningless.
Ya....that essentially means 0.0. :(
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Palm has us as a 2 seed right now.
Unfortunately hes also one of the bigger idiots at this, so its meaningless.
Did Cheeks have lunch with him?
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I jumped on the Delphi Bracketology podcast tonight with Brian Tonsoni from Delphi and Kerry Miller from Bleacher Report. Talked resumes, teams that confound us, and the bubble.
https://twitter.com/delphibrackets/status/1630383662083584001?s=46&t=i8jd5icqD4ER_Owf-vsv7g
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Can Chase Ross's ballsac play the role of Ja Morant to Joey's mug
Laughed out loud. That is really funny!
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I jumped on the Delphi Bracketology podcast tonight with Brian Tonsoni from Delphi and Kerry Miller from Bleacher Report. Talked resumes, teams that confound us, and the bubble.
https://twitter.com/delphibrackets/status/1630383662083584001?s=46&t=i8jd5icqD4ER_Owf-vsv7g
Nice dude! Also enjoyed your question in field of 68 today. Sadly agree with them. A 2 is gonna be bruuuutal to reach.
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Nice job Brew! Fun hearing you guys talk about this stuff. Thanks for the knowledge.
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Colgate in Albany with the #6 Seed being Kentucky
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Colgate in Albany with the #6 Seed being Kentucky
Colgate is a menace
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Who would the dentists cheer for? Worried about a first round floss.
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Colgate in Albany with the #6 Seed being Kentucky
Wouldn't this be the definition of "home crowd disadvantage" for a top 4 seed? Colgate is a 2 hour drive, if that, from Albany. Not that there's some massive fan base in that neck of upstate New York, but still.
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Wouldn't this be the definition of "home crowd disadvantage" for a top 4 seed? Colgate is a 2 hour drive, if that, from Albany. Not that there's some massive fan base in that neck of upstate New York, but still.
I don't think Lunardi pays that much attention to those seeding rules. I don't think it's a coincidence that he has us potentially playing Wisconsin and then Texas. It's done intentionally to drive conversation/clicks.
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Wouldn't this be the definition of "home crowd disadvantage" for a top 4 seed? Colgate is a 2 hour drive, if that, from Albany. Not that there's some massive fan base in that neck of upstate New York, but still.
I would guess that Marquette would have more fans in attendance than Colgate.
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I would guess that Marquette would have more fans in attendance than Colgate.
I'm sure more MU-affiliated fans would buy tickets than Colgate-affiliated fans. I think the disadvantage comes in where there's lots of locals who are unaffiliated with any program who attend. The underdog always has an advantage with those fans, but a backyard underdog would have a huge advantage.
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Who would the dentists cheer for? Worried about a first round floss.
No worries as they would have the Lord on their side singing their favorite hymn: "Crown Him with Many Crowns.
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I don't think Lunardi pays that much attention to those seeding rules. I don't think it's a coincidence that he has us potentially playing Wisconsin and then Texas. It's done intentionally to drive conversation/clicks.
Lunardi is a contradiction. He has Michigan, with a 11-7 conference record, out. Yet has 8-10 Wisconsin, in. I would love a March rematch w/RED!
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Lunardi is a contradiction. He has Michigan, with a 11-7 conference record, out. Yet has 8-10 Wisconsin, in. I would love a March rematch w/RED!
Wisconsin’s Q1 wins are what is helping them overcome their record and metrics.
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Lunardi is a contradiction. He has Michigan, with a 11-7 conference record, out. Yet has 8-10 Wisconsin, in. I would love a March rematch w/RED!
Well most brackets have Wisconsin slightly ahead of Michigan so its not really odd
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Lunardi is a contradiction. He has Michigan, with a 11-7 conference record, out. Yet has 8-10 Wisconsin, in. I would love a March rematch w/RED!
Conference records no matta.
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Conference records no matta.
I mostly agree, but I think you should have to be at least .500 in conference to qualify for the tournament.
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I mostly agree, but I think you should have to be at least .500 in conference to qualify for the tournament.
That rule doesn't exist though.
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That rule doesn't exist though.
This, many projections have West Virginia in at a 6-11 conf record. The conf rec will have no bearing on whether they get in.
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Lunardi is a contradiction. He has Michigan, with a 11-7 conference record, out. Yet has 8-10 Wisconsin, in. I would love a March rematch w/RED!
Conference records are not part of selection criteria, especially with leagues like the B10 that have unbalanced schedules.
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Lunardi is a contradiction. He has Michigan, with a 11-7 conference record, out. Yet has 8-10 Wisconsin, in. I would love a March rematch w/RED!
While not a hard and fast rule, the committee says that it tries to avoid rematches of regular season nonconference games in the second round. If possible, if Wisconsin gets an 11 seed and Marquette has a three, they might try to place Wisconsin in a different region.
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That rule doesn't exist though.
I'm aware
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While not a hard and fast rule, the committee says that it tries to avoid rematches of regular season nonconference games in the second round. If possible, if Wisconsin gets an 11 seed and Marquette has a three, they might try to place Wisconsin in a different region.
Yep. Ship those Badgers to Dayton and play Auburn in that early play-in game.
Survive, and it's off to Sacramento with a matchup against 6-seed Kentucky.
winner getting 3-seed Gonzaga or Arizona.
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I'm aware
But why advocate for that arbitrary rule? It punishes conferences like the Big 12 that are strong top to bottom. It doesn't factor in imbalanced conference schedules like the Big Ten has. And it values conference games over nonconference games.
It must be due to the cognitive dissonance that some people experience. How can a team with a losing conference record play in the National Championship tournament? It goes against their natural intuition. But NFL and NBA teams have made the playoffs with losing records. Even when other teams with winning records miss the playoffs.
It's just part of sports. I don't foresee the NCAA adopting a new rule to address it.
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There’s little to no evidence that Wisconsin is an NCAA team. Their win against us notwithstanding. They fail in metrics, eye test, and yes, in the no-matta record and conference record categories.
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There’s little to no evidence that Wisconsin is an NCAA team. Their win against us notwithstanding. They fail in metrics, eye test, and yes, in the no-matta record and conference record categories.
This applies to basically every team battling for one of the last few spots, though.
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It's bad enough that Sister Jean has predicted that heathen Kentucky will win the championship, but ESPN's computer choice for the Elite Eight has UCONN in, but not us.
What kind of Catholic nun is she anyway? Couldn't pick us or any other Catholic school to win it all? She needs to go to confession.
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It's bad enough that Sister Jean has predicted that heathen Kentucky will win the championship, but ESPN's computer choice for the Elite Eight has UCONN in, but not us.
What kind of Catholic nun is she anyway? Couldn't pick us or any other Catholic school to win it all? She needs to go to confession.
She's still pissed we hired Shaka instead of Porter Moser.
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Katz has us as a 2 seed now
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Katz has us as a 2 seed now
Great the rare person to have us as a 2 seed. Has TCU as a 7 instead of a 6.
Really mostly want to just avoid them
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Katz has us as a 2 seed now
Where does he post?
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Great the rare person to have us as a 2 seed. Has TCU as a 7 instead of a 6.
Really mostly want to just avoid them
What potential 6 seed would you prefer to TCU if we stay on the 3 line? The rd of 32 opponent will be tough for every team in every bracket. Including Houston.
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What potential 6 seed would you prefer to TCU if we stay on the 3 line? The rd of 32 opponent will be tough for every team in every bracket. Including Houston.
Out of the current 6 seeds on Bracket Matrix, I want Northwestern or Iowa State.
We can't play Creighton that early and the other 6 is Kentucky, whom I would not want to play in Columbus.
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Palm now has us at a 2 as well. Trending in the right direction
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What potential 6 seed would you prefer to TCU if we stay on the 3 line? The rd of 32 opponent will be tough for every team in every bracket. Including Houston.
Northwestern or TAMU forsure
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TAMU forsure
High risk... extremely high reward.
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Like I said yesterday, 2 more wins and lock us in for a 2 seed. You're either avoiding a bad loss (by winning vs. St. John's and then Butler or St. John's), or you're taking a bad loss (home vs. St. John's) but getting a neutral court win over Creighton or UCONN.
We were a 4 seed for the reveal, but that didn't take into account our win over Xavier. The biggest knock on our resume was no Q1 wins away from Fiserv. Well, we took care of that with our win at Creighton. Teams around us have lost, and we have not.
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Like I said yesterday, 2 more wins and lock us in for a 2 seed. You're either avoiding a bad loss (by winning vs. St. John's and then Butler or St. John's), or you're taking a bad loss (home vs. St. John's) but getting a neutral court win over Creighton or UCONN.
We were a 4 seed for the reveal, but that didn't take into account our win over Xavier. The biggest knock on our resume was no Q1 wins away from Fiserv. Well, we took care of that with our win at Creighton. Teams around us have lost, and we have not.
Better hope Creighton does not drop down to Q2
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Better hope Creighton does not drop down to Q2
That would be a hell of a fall from grace with (what would then have to be) 3 games left before Selection Sunday, one of which will be on a neutral against UCONN. They're currently 15th in the NET. They'd need to fall 61 spots in a sample size of under 10% of their games.
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Better hope Creighton does not drop down to Q2
Yeah, there is literally zero worry of that.
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Better hope Creighton does not drop down to Q2
Teal?
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Like I said yesterday, 2 more wins and lock us in for a 2 seed. You're either avoiding a bad loss (by winning vs. St. John's and then Butler or St. John's), or you're taking a bad loss (home vs. St. John's) but getting a neutral court win over Creighton or UCONN.
We were a 4 seed for the reveal, but that didn't take into account our win over Xavier. The biggest knock on our resume was no Q1 wins away from Fiserv. Well, we took care of that with our win at Creighton. Teams around us have lost, and we have not.
That was the biggest knock, but not the only knock. I also think the gap from 3 to 4 is much smaller than 2 to 3. Really, our only advantage is less losses, but their strength of schedules are much better.
I think we are locked into a 3 seed unless we blow out UCONN and get a lot of help.
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I think we are locked into a 3 seed...
I am perfectly happy with that.
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Like I said yesterday, 2 more wins and lock us in for a 2 seed. You're either avoiding a bad loss (by winning vs. St. John's and then Butler or St. John's), or you're taking a bad loss (home vs. St. John's) but getting a neutral court win over Creighton or UCONN.
We were a 4 seed for the reveal, but that didn't take into account our win over Xavier. The biggest knock on our resume was no Q1 wins away from Fiserv. Well, we took care of that with our win at Creighton. Teams around us have lost, and we have not.
I don't think that's enough. Since the reveal, I'm confident that Marquette has passed Indiana, Iowa State, and Virginia.
That puts MU at 11 on the S-Curve. To get to a 2, MU has to pass Tennessee, Kansas State, and Arizona. Short of winning the BET, I don't see how MU passes all 3.
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I don't think that's enough. Since the reveal, I'm confident that Marquette has passed Indiana, Iowa State, and Virginia.
That puts MU at 11 on the S-Curve. To get to a 2, MU has to pass Tennessee, Kansas State, and Arizona. Short of winning the BET, I don't see how MU passes all 3.
I believe we should be already past Arizona. Need kstate to lose to Mosers crew tonight and Tennessee just lost zeigler. I really believe it’s in play
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I believe we should be already past Arizona. Need kstate to lose to Mosers crew tonight and Tennessee just lost zeigler. I really believe it’s in play
I'm not convinced we're past Arizona, and even if we are, they have road games at USC and UCLA which give them an opportunity to pass us.
Kansas State just has too many Q1 wins. I don't think we can catch them without winning the BET.
It's a slim opportunity for MU to get a 2 seed, in my opinion.
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I'm not convinced we're past Arizona, and even if we are, they have road games at USC and UCLA which give them an opportunity to pass us.
Kansas State just has too many Q1 wins. I don't think we can catch them without winning the BET.
It's a slim opportunity for MU to get a 2 seed, in my opinion.
I think the 2 is in play but dependent on others.
I think we are placing too much stock in NET here. There are multiple data points showing the Committee does not care much about it. That could be good or bad for MU.
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We're not past Arizona. They were 8 spots ahead of us on the S curve at the reveal and have lost once since.
Teams don't move much at this point in the season. Each game is 1 data point out of 30ish. Single games don't move the needle much, especially games that aren't Q1
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A 2 seed seems like it’d be a gift. A 3 seed seems appropriate. A 4 seed would be an insult. I think we can make a lot of noise from any spot.
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I would bet my paycheck marquette get the 2 seed and Texas the 3 just to make it a noteworthy game
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A 2 seed seems like it’d be a gift. A 3 seed seems appropriate. A 4 seed would be an insult. I think we can make a lot of noise from any spot.
If a 2 seed would be a gift, what would the NET 74 team making the tournament be?
A Bill Gates charitable donation?
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Maybe its just me, but if not MU, then I would love to VU win the Big East Tournament and steal a big from the Big 10. ;D
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Maybe its just me, but if not MU, then I would love to VU win the Big East Tournament and steal a bid from the Big 10. ;D
Especially if the addition of Nova somewhere pushed UW into first four out. ;D
Hoping that we win the BET but with X, Cr, PC, UCONN and a revived Nova in the mix, who knows? One thing for sure- it's going to be an especially good tourney.
Back to the thread- a #2 seed may be a stretch, but it would be so sweet!
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Isn’t it convceivable for Nova to still sneak an at-large? Feels like nobody is talking about it. Beat UConn Saturday and make it to the BET finals. They’d be 21-14 having won ten of their last eleven, including wins over UConn, Creighton, at Xavier, and probably CU/Prov plus Xavier in the BET.
Not to mention the Justin Moore return as a nice “different team since” narrative.
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Isn’t it convceivable for Nova to still sneak an at-large? Feels like nobody is talking about it. Beat UConn Saturday and make it to the BET finals. They’d be 21-14 having won ten of their last eleven, including wins over UConn, Creighton, at Xavier, and probably CU/Prov plus Xavier in the BET.
Not to mention the Justin Moore return as a nice “different team since” narrative.
They'd be close according to T-Rank if they make the BE Finals. Factor in the Moore injury and you could see it happen.
https://barttorvik.com/teamcast.php?rank=69&team=Villanova&year=2023&bracket=1&La_SalleVillanova11-7=A&VillanovaTemple11-11=A&Delaware_St_Villanova11-14=A&VillanovaMichigan_St_11-18=A&Iowa_St_Villanova11-24=A&PortlandVillanova11-25=A&OregonVillanova11-27=A&OklahomaVillanova12-3=A&PennVillanova12-7=A&Boston_CollegeVillanova12-10=A&VillanovaSaint_Joseph_s12-17=A&St__John_sVillanova12-21=A&VillanovaConnecticut12-28=A&MarquetteVillanova12-31=A&VillanovaGeorgetown1-4=A&XavierVillanova1-7=A&VillanovaDePaul1-10=A&VillanovaButler1-13=A&GeorgetownVillanova1-16=A&VillanovaSt__John_s1-20=A&ProvidenceVillanova1-29=A&VillanovaMarquette2-1=A&VillanovaCreighton2-4=A&DePaulVillanova2-8=A&Seton_HallVillanova2-11=A&ButlerVillanova2-14=A&VillanovaProvidence2-18=A&VillanovaXavier2-21=A&CreightonVillanova2-25=A&VillanovaSeton_Hall2-28=A&ConnecticutVillanova3-4=W&x1_type=Post&x1_loc=N&x1_team=Georgetown&x1_res=W&x2_type=Post&x2_loc=N&x2_team=Providence&x2_res=W&x3_type=Post&x3_loc=N&x3_team=Xavier&x3_res=W&x4_type=Post&x4_loc=N&x4_team=Marquette&x4_res=L&x5_type=&x5_loc=&x5_team=&x5_res= (https://barttorvik.com/teamcast.php?rank=69&team=Villanova&year=2023&bracket=1&La_SalleVillanova11-7=A&VillanovaTemple11-11=A&Delaware_St_Villanova11-14=A&VillanovaMichigan_St_11-18=A&Iowa_St_Villanova11-24=A&PortlandVillanova11-25=A&OregonVillanova11-27=A&OklahomaVillanova12-3=A&PennVillanova12-7=A&Boston_CollegeVillanova12-10=A&VillanovaSaint_Joseph_s12-17=A&St__John_sVillanova12-21=A&VillanovaConnecticut12-28=A&MarquetteVillanova12-31=A&VillanovaGeorgetown1-4=A&XavierVillanova1-7=A&VillanovaDePaul1-10=A&VillanovaButler1-13=A&GeorgetownVillanova1-16=A&VillanovaSt__John_s1-20=A&ProvidenceVillanova1-29=A&VillanovaMarquette2-1=A&VillanovaCreighton2-4=A&DePaulVillanova2-8=A&Seton_HallVillanova2-11=A&ButlerVillanova2-14=A&VillanovaProvidence2-18=A&VillanovaXavier2-21=A&CreightonVillanova2-25=A&VillanovaSeton_Hall2-28=A&ConnecticutVillanova3-4=W&x1_type=Post&x1_loc=N&x1_team=Georgetown&x1_res=W&x2_type=Post&x2_loc=N&x2_team=Providence&x2_res=W&x3_type=Post&x3_loc=N&x3_team=Xavier&x3_res=W&x4_type=Post&x4_loc=N&x4_team=Marquette&x4_res=L&x5_type=&x5_loc=&x5_team=&x5_res=)
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Texas is about to lose to TCU and get an 8th loss. Have to imagine that we've edged above them now right?
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Texas is about to lose to TCU and get an 8th loss. Have to imagine that we've edged above them now right?
Doubt it, they have some great wins
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Doubt it, they have some great wins
Like Creighton and Baylor? Been there done that.
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Texas is about to lose to TCU and get an 8th loss. Have to imagine that we've edged above them now right?
Not yet. Lets hope Kansas beats em then we can open the convo
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Texas is about to lose to TCU and get an 8th loss. Have to imagine that we've edged above them now right?
Likely not even close. If I had to guess, they're probably 6th or 7th on the S-Curve now. We're likely 10th or 11th. Losing Q1 games on the road doesn't move you down on the S-curve and winning Q2/Q4 games doesn't move you up. Beating X at home and winning at Creighton isn't enough to move up 9 spots.
Not yet. Lets hope Kansas beats em then we can open the convo
Losing to an eventual 1 seed isn't going to harm their resume. Then the worst they could be in the B12 tournament is the 4 seed who will play the 5 seed, either TCU or Iowa State. Losing to either of them on a neutral court would be another Q1 loss, plus conference tourneys don't have the same impact that regular season games do.
I think Kansas State and Tennessee could theoretically knock Texas off the 2 line (assuming they don't knock off Baylor or one of the P12 teams instead). I don't think Marquette can do it because our last game is a Q3. I don't think that'll be enough even with a BET championship
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as the #9 Team in his S Curve
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1630946912940572673?s=46&t=CH7W9HhaS7-wyFcmnInM2g
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If they lose 4x since the reveal, assuming a loss versus Kansas on Saturday and a loss in the conference tournament, and Marquette beats X, @Creighton and a few more nice wins on the way to a BE regular season title AND a BET Title you better believe Marquette is ahead of them.
That’s a 23-10 or a 22-10 team resume compared to a 28-6 team resume, a team that won both the regular and conference tournament titles.
It’s not like the Big East is some soft conference.
I get the Q1 wins and I get that the B12 is the cream of the crop and every team in that conference has a ton of Q1 wins, and that matter of course, but if it were the end all be all Kansas would be the runaway #1 overall seed because they’ve got something like 15Q1s, which might be an all-time record, and they were 4 in the reveal.
The thing that made the least sense to me during that reveal was rightfully packing the top 4 seed lines with B12 teams but then saying Kansas was the 4th one seed.
I mean come one, they’ve got an insane amount of Q1 wins.
Anyhow, if they beat Kansas it’ll be a moot point, and if Marquette loses before Saturday at the Garden it likely will too, but the more I look at things the more I think to myself that Marquette might really surprise some folks with a 2 seed.
Numbers matter, always, but optics do as well. If Marquette is the clear best team in the Big East, which they are currently considered, and they show well in the Conference Tourney I’d be pretty surprised to see them on the 3 line.
The BE has 3 additional teams in the top 4ish lines so again, it’s not like it’s some pushover conference. Also, it’s not like Marquette’s metrics or numbers are what Providence’s were last season.
Marquette should be rewarded and given a bump for its regular season success.
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Totally agree, DoctorV. I hope we get to see this scenario play out — I think MU will be a clear cut two seed if they win out. I even think they have a (very) narrow path if they roll UConn/Creighton but lose in the BET finals.
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as the #9 Team in his S Curve
https://twitter.com/espnlunardi/status/1630946912940572673?s=46&t=CH7W9HhaS7-wyFcmnInM2g
Why does Lunardi have us as an automatic qualifier. Does he think will win the BET?
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2023-march-madness-men-field
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Why does Lunardi have us as an automatic qualifier. Does he think will win the BET?
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-projecting-2023-march-madness-men-field
He automatically puts the current first place team in as the auto qualifier. Other bracketologists put the team with the highest NET/KenPom/Insert preferred metric here.
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Isn’t it convceivable for Nova to still sneak an at-large? Feels like nobody is talking about it. Beat UConn Saturday and make it to the BET finals. They’d be 21-14 having won ten of their last eleven, including wins over UConn, Creighton, at Xavier, and probably CU/Prov plus Xavier in the BET.
Not to mention the Justin Moore return as a nice “different team since” narrative.
Talk to Rico. They are not in the conversation, and thats his opinion that he will stick to.
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Talk to Rico. They are not in the conversation, and thats his opinion that he will stick to.
They aren’t
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Hoping TCU is playing its way into a 5 seed. If we end up a 3 I don’t want to see them as the 6 in our region.
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Hoping TCU is playing its way into a 5 seed. If we end up a 3 I don’t want to see them as the 6 in our region.
They look really good at times.
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Hoping TCU is playing its way into a 5 seed. If we end up a 3 I don’t want to see them as the 6 in our region.
C'mon guys. As a reformed COLE person this team has a chance to beat anyone.
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They look really good at times.
So do we.
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Hoping TCU is playing its way into a 5 seed. If we end up a 3 I don’t want to see them as the 6 in our region.
Tough defense but that offense is brutal to watch at times.
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So do we.
True. And I'm not particularly concerned with a specific team and match-up frankly. Every team in the 32 rd, including the 1 seeds, can be taken down.
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Obviously we want the highest seed possible generally speaking but if MU earned a 2, I don’t think it’d be that ideal to get put out West and have UCLA/Arizona waiting as a 3. Though a S16 in Vegas would be cool, it’s just not the most ideal. Would probably rather be in Louisville and play one of the PAC12 teams there as a 3, but I do understand there’s a trade off with having slightly more difficult 1st and 2nd round games.
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C'mon guys. As a reformed COLE person this team has a chance to beat anyone.
Of course we can. That doesn't mean you don't have preferences of who you might or might not want to play in that round.
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Maybe we do want TCU.
Appears last night was their superbowl. Storming court against #9 when also ranked. And they let barstool guys into their lockerroom to celebrate after haha.
Wild.
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Losses this week by Indiana, Northwestern, and Iowa have left a real oddity in the middle heavy Big 10. Michigan at 11-7 pending tonight's game at Illinois is all alone in second place, but is still appropriately teetering on the edge of the bubble. If Rutgers wins at Minnesota tonight, and Illinois beats Michigan (both expected results), they will have a 7 way tie for second place and only MSU's cancelled game against Minnesota is keeping them from also being 11-8.
What a swamp of mediocrity.
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Losses this week by Indiana, Northwestern, and Iowa have left a real oddity in the middle heavy Big 10. Michigan at 11-7 pending tonight's game at Illinois is all alone in second place, but is still appropriately teetering on the edge of the bubble. If Rutgers wins at Minnesota tonight, and Illinois beats Michigan (both expected results), they will have a 7 way tie for second place and only MSU's cancelled game against Minnesota is keeping them from also being 11-8.
What a swamp of mediocrity.
Its wild if you do a deep dive into who has swept who too.
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What a swamp of mediocrity.
The big ten term for that is “balanced” or “has no bottom.”
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The big ten term for that is “balanced” or “has no bottom.”
Just like a toilet bowl
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too bad the Badgers are not in the mix for the 7 way tie for second. I would love all the "did you see they tied for second this year" conversation amongst all the Walmart Badger fans...
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Just like a toilet bowl
Nice. I'm stealing that.
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too bad the Badgers are not in the mix for the 7 way tie for second. I would love all the "did you see they tied for second this year" conversation amongst all the Walmart Badger fans...
Kohl's
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Kohl's
Kult of Horrible Losers?
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Just like a toilet bowl
There’s no such thing as an easy game in the Big 10 - every game is a battle. 🙄
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too bad the Badgers are not in the mix for the 7 way tie for second. I would love all the "did you see they tied for second this year" conversation amongst all the Walmart Badger fans...
...or they beat the National Champion Golden Eagles on their home court.
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Jerry Palm has us as a 2 seed. 😳
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Jerry Palm has us as a 2 seed. 😳
That guarantees Marquette is a 3-seed
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Maybe we do want TCU.
Appears last night was their superbowl. Storming court against #9 when also ranked. And they let barstool guys into their lockerroom to celebrate after haha.
Wild.
*barfstool
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Latest bracketmatrix has us as the second 3.
Almost all of the 82 bracketeers have us as a 3. Five 2s and a couple 4s - the rest 3s. We are closer to the fourth 2 (Arizona) than to the first 4 (UConn).
UConn and X are 4s, Creighton a 6, The Provi a 9.
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Furman in Columbus with Northwestern being the #6 Seed
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Furman in Columbus with Northwestern being the #6 Seed
that's tasty, seems like a good path to the second weekend
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that's tasty, seems like a good path to the second weekend
Yea, I would take that bracket in a second.
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Furman in Columbus with Northwestern being the #6 Seed
They might have to play two purple teams in a row!
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They might have to play two purple teams in a row!
Maybe they should place that pod in a regional with Kansas State as the 2 seed.
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Furman in Columbus with Northwestern being the #6 Seed
That would be delightful
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Maybe they should place that pod in a regional with Kansas State as the 2 seed.
We'd be the Purple People Eaters.
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We'd be the Purple People Eaters.
We need Otule back for that.
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Wisconsin still dancing in the updated brackets that I've seen, much to Muggsy's dismay.
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Wisconsin still dancing in the updated brackets that I've seen, much to Muggsy's dismay.
Only until Dawson hangs 50 on them this weekend. 👀
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Wisconsin still dancing in the updated brackets that I've seen, much to Muggsy's dismay.
They are in a tough position. If there’s any bid stealers, they are going to have to jump some teams. Two wins against Minnesota won’t do it either.
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Furman in Columbus with Northwestern being the #6 Seed
That's a perfect draw imo. Hope we get it
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Losses this week by Indiana, Northwestern, and Iowa have left a real oddity in the middle heavy Big 10. Michigan at 11-7 pending tonight's game at Illinois is all alone in second place, but is still appropriately teetering on the edge of the bubble. If Rutgers wins at Minnesota tonight, and Illinois beats Michigan (both expected results), they will have a 7 way tie for second place and only MSU's cancelled game against Minnesota is keeping them from also being 11-8.
What a swamp of mediocrity.
Rutgers blew 10 point lead with 1:15 left. So only 6 second place teams right now. :o :o
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That's a perfect draw imo. Hope we get it
Want nothing to do with a SoCon team seeded 14
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Hasnt NU lost like 3 in a row? And they have desperate Rutgers next.
Unlikely they get a 6
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Give me just absolute chaos
#14 Iona
#6 TAMU
#2 Texas
#1 Alabama
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Give me just absolute chaos
#14 Iona
#6 TAMU
#2 Texas
#1 Alabama
#1 Kansas, we have some unfinished business
Then in the Final Four we face the suddenly red-hot Michigan State Spartans followed by UVA in the Championship game. Afterwards Dave and Steph pen an apology letter.
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Want nothing to do with a SoCon team seeded 14
YEH! If that happens MU should tell the NCAA to "suck it" and opt for the NIT. Been there, done that.
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YEH! If that happens MU should tell the NCAA to "suck it" and opt for the NIT. Been there, done that.
So now COLE refers to worrying abouy potential 14 seeds? 👀
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POST #1 - make it good FairWeather...
2 vs 3 - I dont think it makes a big difference...14 or 15 then 6 or 7 (if their 11 or 10 don't get em). The matchups are a crapshoot I think.
Having said that, 2 would be nice, but we only get it if we win the BET. I know conference tourneys don't matter much but it will make the difference.
Do we want UW and MissState to get in so MU can say all their losses were to tourney teams? OR does Badger-Hate overrule?
Thats all I got for POST #1!!
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POST #1 - make it good FairWeather...
2 vs 3 - I dont think it makes a big difference...14 or 15 then 6 or 7 (if their 11 or 10 don't get em). The matchups are a crapshoot I think.
Having said that, 2 would be nice, but we only get it if we win the BET. I know conference tourneys don't matter much but it will make the difference.
Do we want UW and MissState to get in so MU can say all their losses were to tourney teams? OR does Badger-Hate overrule?
Thats all I got for POST #1!!
#bandisguy
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Do we want UW and MissState to get in so MU can say all their losses were to tourney teams? OR does Badger-Hate overrule?
Badger hate wins and it’s no contest.
To whom that would care would you say “Hey, all of MU’s losses were to NCAA tourney teams”?
I don’t want the Badgers sharing the spotlight from the local media entering the NCAA.
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+1,000,000 8-)
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Badger hate wins and it’s no contest.
To whom that would care would you say “Hey, all of MU’s losses were to NCAA tourney teams”?
I don’t want the Badgers sharing the spotlight from the local media entering the NCAA.
But I wouldn't mind sharing it with UWM. The irony would be beautiful. No Badgers in, but Panthers in.
BADgers 3rd best team in the state
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POST #1 - make it good FairWeather...
2 vs 3 - I dont think it makes a big difference...14 or 15 then 6 or 7 (if their 11 or 10 don't get em). The matchups are a crapshoot I think.
Having said that, 2 would be nice, but we only get it if we win the BET. I know conference tourneys don't matter much but it will make the difference.
Do we want UW and MissState to get in so MU can say all their losses were to tourney teams? OR does Badger-Hate overrule?
Thats all I got for POST #1!!
Eff the Badgers. Top 5 smarmy fan base. Great to see their FB and BB programs suck again.
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I know Lunardi is a joke but having KSU who has lost 4 of 9, including 2 to the bottom 2 teams in the B12, as a 2 over MU right now is dumb.
Also, having Wisky still in the field shows how terrible the bubble is this year, my god. Since Jan 1, lost 11 of 17, won 1 win over a team currently in the NCAA field (Iowa, not counting current last in PSU who is in less than half of BracketMatrix’s brackets) , and currently 3 games under .500 in the B14.
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Baylor getting blasted at home by Iowa State.
The window for a 2 seed is opening!
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#bandisguy
No, never played in the band 😉
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https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1632444237332586498?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
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https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1632444237332586498?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Interesting. I always thought a large chunk of seeding was done Friday/Saturday, which is why Conference Tourneys didn’t result in much movement.
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https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1632444237332586498?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
“YeAh BuT WhAT iF My TeAm DoEs ThAt ThInG oN FriDaY NiGHt Or SaTuRDay!?”
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YEH! If that happens MU should tell the NCAA to "suck it" and opt for the NIT. Been there, done that.
Can’t do that anymore. After 1970, both the NCAA and the university said no more tuning down NCAA bids. Period.
It ain’t going to happen but we have a nasty score to settle with Miami of Ohio. A really nasty one!
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Can’t do that anymore. After 1970, both the NCAA and the university said no more tuning down NCAA bids. Period.
It ain’t going to happen but we have a nasty score to settle with Miami of Ohio. A really nasty one!
LOL. It was 45 years ago. No one really cares.
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https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1632444237332586498?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Can someone set up a "NoLongerBadgers" account on Buckyuville and tell them about this? They seem to think if they win at Minnesota tonight and get one more in the BTT, they are in. Based on this, unless they have a strong performance, they might not have enough from the hypothetical Minnesota win today.
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Can someone set up a "NoLongerBadgers" account on Buckyuville and tell them about this? They seem to think if they win at Minnesota tonight and get one more in the BTT, they are in. Based on this, unless they have a strong performance, they might not have enough from the hypothetical Minnesota win today.
Not sure why that would matter. They’d be in the Late Saturday category. Won’t they be playing Wednesday in the Big Ten tourney?
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Michigan is in with a win today. Zero chance committee doesn’t put them in if they finish alone in 2nd place. I think Penn State just played their way in this week also with 2 wins over tournament teams. Badgers are out unless they make the championship game and there are no bid stealers. I think they would give them a last 4 spot in that scenario.
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Can’t do that anymore. After 1970, both the NCAA and the university said no more tuning down NCAA bids. Period.
It ain’t going to happen but we have a nasty score to settle with Miami of Ohio. A really nasty one!
Would you rather have MU play a 14 seed from the SoCon or get kicked out of the NCAA? I think our future would be brighter in the NAIA.
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LOL. It was 45 years ago. No one really cares.
I care
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LOL. It was 45 years ago. No one really cares.
Actually both were more than 50 years ago, but point taken.
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On the latest bracketmatrix, Marquette 63 bracketologists have picked Marquette as a 3-seed and five have picked us as a 2. No one has picked us as a 4 or higher, which is a first.
On the composite chart, we are the first 3-seed, but our point total is just about equidistant between the first 4 and the last 2.
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On the latest bracketmatrix, Marquette 63 bracketologists have picked Marquette as a 3-seed and five have picked us as a 2. No one has picked us as a 4 or higher, which is a first.
On the composite chart, we are the first 3-seed, but our point total is just about equidistant between the first 4 and the last 2.
Yeah I read this as nothing other than Solid 3 seed.
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Yeah I read this as nothing other than Solid 3 seed.
I don't think it's possible for us to fall to a 4 seed at this point. The only situation where I think it would even be possible is if we lose on Thursday, Kansas State wins at least one game in the B12 tourney, and Gonzaga, Tennessee, and UConn all won their respective conference tournaments. Even then, I think we still end up as a three but don't want to test that theory.
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Do we think there is any way Marquette falls off the 3 line?
Maybe up to the 2 if they win the Big East Tourney, but are we safe from the 4?
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Do we think there is any way Marquette falls off the 3 line?
Maybe up to the 2 if they win the Big East Tourney, but are we safe from the 4?
Literally answered in the post directly above yours.
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Do we think there is any way Marquette falls off the 3 line?
Maybe up to the 2 if they win the Big East Tourney, but are we safe from the 4?
They can tweak, but the odds are by the time we are finishing our first game, the top-16 will already be set. At that point, I don't think they want to go back and reconfigure the work the Committee already did, especially looking at how they seem to have set the top-16 Preview on Monday/Tuesday and didn't factor results for most of that week in.
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They can tweak, but the odds are by the time we are finishing our first game, the top-16 will already be set. At that point, I don't think they want to go back and reconfigure the work the Committee already did, especially looking at how they seem to have set the top-16 Preview on Monday/Tuesday and didn't factor results for most of that week in.
I got the impression from the videos on the NCAA site that they do continue to “scrub” the seed list up until they actually start placing teams in the bracket, which doesn’t happen until around Saturday night.
So, to use an example, if Baylor were number 8 on the seed list and MU were number 9, and MU won the BET, in a late scrubbing a committee member made make a motion to flip those positions and, if seconded, that motion would be discussed and voted on.
Because that scrubbing only allows teams to move one spot on the seed list at a time, moving up more than a spot or two is probably not very likely. But a team that follows up a regular season title with a conference tournament title might be a candidate for advancement.
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Palm on CBS has us as a 2 in Des Moines, but with Iowa State as the 7?!? If this could possibly be a thing it should be reason enough for MU to request Columbus.
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I can't remember where I read it, but one of the committee members stated for seeding purposes, the committee considers the conference tournaments as "one" game, so its hard to move up or down a whole seeding line.
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Palm on CBS has us as a 2 in Des Moines, but with Iowa State as the 7?!? If this could possibly be a thing it should be reason enough for MU to request Columbus.
Jerry Palm is not a serious person, at least not when it comes to bracketology
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I can't remember where I read it, but one of the committee members stated for seeding purposes, the committee considers the conference tournaments as "one" game, so its hard to move up or down a whole seeding line.
That doesn’t sound quite right.
Maybe what was said is that any game in a conference tournament is treated the same as one game in the regular season.
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I can't remember where I read it, but one of the committee members stated for seeding purposes, the committee considers the conference tournaments as "one" game, so its hard to move up or down a whole seeding line.
In your dreams, perhaps??
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In your dreams, perhaps??
No more outlandish than saying the top 16 seeds are already determined by Wednesday or Thursday.
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I can't remember where I read it, but one of the committee members stated for seeding purposes, the committee considers the conference tournaments as "one" game, so its hard to move up or down a whole seeding line.
I have no doubt you are right, but how the hell would that work? Which "one game" do they pick? Or is if you win the tourney it counts as a win, but if you go 3-1 it counts as a loss? Or is it the cumulative score of the games you played?
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I have no doubt you are right, but how the hell would that work? Which "one game" do they pick? Or is if you win the tourney it counts as a win, but if you go 3-1 it counts as a loss? Or is it the cumulative score of the games you played?
i took it as they don't use those in adding or subtracting quadrant wins and losses.
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Hah UCONN fans are saying that they expect a 2 if they win the BET.
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Hah UCONN fans are saying that they expect a 2 if they win the BET.
Eh...that's not an awful take. They probably have a better case than MU thanks to a better non-con schedule. And their metrics are better than ours.
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Eh...that's not an awful take. They probably have a better case than MU thanks to a better non-con schedule. And their metrics are better than ours.
They’d get an extra Q1 win due to their first round matchup compared to MU.
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Jerry Palm is not a serious person, at least not when it comes to bracketology
Five years to judge, a’ina?
Wait…he’s had that and more. You’re right, he sucks.
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They’d get an extra Q1 win due to their first round matchup compared to MU.
I could see either Marquette or UConn getting a 2 seed if they win the BET.
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They can tweak, but the odds are by the time we are finishing our first game, the top-16 will already be set. At that point, I don't think they want to go back and reconfigure the work the Committee already did, especially looking at how they seem to have set the top-16 Preview on Monday/Tuesday and didn't factor results for most of that week in.
I'm ok with that!
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Eh...that's not an awful take. They probably have a better case than MU thanks to a better non-con schedule. And their metrics are better than ours.
It's an awful take. They're not moving up two seed lines
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I hope Furman jumps up to the 13 seed line.
That's the one team in Marquette's matchup range I'd rather just avoid. They make a ton of 3s, are old, and don't turn the ball over.
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I hope Furman jumps up to the 13 seed line.
That's the one team in Marquette's matchup range I'd rather just avoid. They make a ton of 3s, are old, and don't turn the ball over.
Don’t you chant doesn’t matter, win anyway or any number of old cliches?
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Don’t you chant doesn’t matter, win anyway or any number of old cliches?
Yup! And I think they probably would, but I'd rather avoid that one if possible.
Fielding the 68 has that as our matchup at this point in time.
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They're also barely a top 200 defense in KP.
They're gonna have to guard us too.
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I hope Furman jumps up to the 13 seed line.
That's the one team in Marquette's matchup range I'd rather just avoid. They make a ton of 3s, are old, and don't turn the ball over.
Not to be a smart ass and in all seriousness, Furman has not played against MU defense.
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Not to be a smart ass and in all seriousness, Furman has not played against MU defense.
I know, Marquette would be a major step up for them. They did only lose to Penn State by 5 earlier this year.
If I'm being picky...which why not be picky...I'd just prefer a different team.
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Eh, as long as Marquette doesn’t face Drake any mid major is fine with me.
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I know, Marquette would be a major step up for them. They did only lose to Penn State by 5 earlier this year.
If I'm being picky...which why not be picky...I'd just prefer a different team.
You're a whimp. Give me Golden State in the first round, the Bucks in the E8 and the '96 Bulls in the championship. ;D
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You're a whimp. Give me Golden State in the first round, the Bucks in the E8 and the '96 Bulls in the championship. ;D
Haha nice.
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I know, Marquette would be a major step up for them. They did only lose to Penn State by 5 earlier this year.
If I'm being picky...which why not be picky...I'd just prefer a different team.
Too bad Georgia Tech is not in the tourney, oh wait, that would scare you too.
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Too bad Georgia Tech is not in the tourney, oh wait, that would scare you too.
(https://media.tenor.com/CDzslIdHReQAAAAM/trying-not-to-laugh-cracking-up.gif)
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Too bad Georgia Tech is not in the tourney, oh wait, that would scare you too.
Lol. Marquette hasn't won jack schitt in 10 years. I will be nervous for every game they play in March whether it's against Georgtown or Kansas.
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https://thescarletfaithful.com/ncaa-selection-committee-to-consider-big-tens-statement-on-controversial-loss-for-rutgers/
Seems like a dangerous precedent for the committee to set.
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https://thescarletfaithful.com/ncaa-selection-committee-to-consider-big-tens-statement-on-controversial-loss-for-rutgers/
Seems like a dangerous precedent for the committee to set.
That certainly could open a can of worms. Although I suppose if it is strictly limited to cases where a conference officially admits that its refs blew a key call -- which is relatively rare, I would think -- it probably won't be too common. Still, I think it's a bad idea.
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That certainly could open a can of worms. Although I suppose if it is strictly limited to cases where a conference officially admits that its refs blew a key call -- which is relatively rare, I would think -- it probably won't be too common. Still, I think it's a bad idea.
If this happens, the number of admitted bad calls will go through the roof. I'd do it if I were a commissioner. There is real money a stake and one could argue the commissioners would be violating their responsibility if they don't.
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https://thescarletfaithful.com/ncaa-selection-committee-to-consider-big-tens-statement-on-controversial-loss-for-rutgers/
Seems like a dangerous precedent for the committee to set.
I call BS. One call does not decide a game.
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That certainly could open a can of worms. Although I suppose if it is strictly limited to cases where a conference officially admits that its refs blew a key call -- which is relatively rare, I would think -- it probably won't be too common. Still, I think it's a bad idea.
Does Rutgers get in and Wisconsin out? If so, I think it is a great idea. ;D :P
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I think Q2A games are undervalued in the selection process.
https://twitter.com/5th_Factor/status/1632571603283312640?t=OGKznv6OEaAqdCDheRnFzw&s=19
(https://twitter.com/5th_Factor/status/1632571603283312640?t=OGKznv6OEaAqdCDheRnFzw&s=19)
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I think Q2A games are undervalued in the selection process.
https://twitter.com/5th_Factor/status/1632571603283312640?t=OGKznv6OEaAqdCDheRnFzw&s=19
(https://twitter.com/5th_Factor/status/1632571603283312640?t=OGKznv6OEaAqdCDheRnFzw&s=19)
Quadrants just not doing the job. We need to expand to Sextants
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https://thescarletfaithful.com/ncaa-selection-committee-to-consider-big-tens-statement-on-controversial-loss-for-rutgers/
Seems like a dangerous precedent for the committee to set.
How is beating a crappy OSU team that is in the bottom 4 of the B1G a Q1 win?
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Does Rutgers get in and Wisconsin out? If so, I think it is a great idea. ;D :P
I think a rule making Wisconsin ineligible for post-season play (which I would support) would have fewer potential unintended consequences.
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https://thescarletfaithful.com/ncaa-selection-committee-to-consider-big-tens-statement-on-controversial-loss-for-rutgers/
Seems like a dangerous precedent for the committee to set.
It’s no secret that the committee can just do whatever they want. One pathetic example is that the NCAA suspended Boeheim and the committee didn’t consider the games he was suspended in which they lost several and probably would have been out.
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This year, teams like Oklahoma State, Wisconsin, UNC, Michigan, ASU have had plenty of opportunities to seal bids down the stretch. All of them have failed.
I typically lean towards rewarding teams in HM conferences who have to play tough schedules, but I hope the committee rewards teams like Charleston, Nevada and Utah State this year.
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I call BS. One call does not decide a game.
Except for this one: https://www.outkick.com/referees-missed-old-dominion-having-6-players-on-the-court-during-a-game-with-major-ncaa-tournament-implications/ (https://www.outkick.com/referees-missed-old-dominion-having-6-players-on-the-court-during-a-game-with-major-ncaa-tournament-implications/)
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This year, teams like Oklahoma State, Wisconsin, UNC, Michigan, ASU have had plenty of opportunities to seal bids down the stretch. All of them have failed.
I typically lean towards rewarding teams in HM conferences who have to play tough schedules, but I hope the committee rewards teams like Charleston, Nevada and Utah State this year.
I completely agree - there’s a lot of mediocrity on the bubble this year.
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Except for this one: https://www.outkick.com/referees-missed-old-dominion-having-6-players-on-the-court-during-a-game-with-major-ncaa-tournament-implications/ (https://www.outkick.com/referees-missed-old-dominion-having-6-players-on-the-court-during-a-game-with-major-ncaa-tournament-implications/)
Wow. I hadn't seen that. Terrible. Obviously, the officials blew it. But I'm amazed that with the size of coaching staffs these days, not a single coach on Troy's staff seemed to notice. At one point in that video you see seven members of the Troy staff standing around the huddle/bench. Nobody noticed? I understand that isn't a reviewable play, but I've seen plenty of coaches argue over plays that are not reviewable. There is no reaction by the Troy coaching staff. If they'd noticed, surely at least one of them would have been raising hell.
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I think a rule making Wisconsin ineligible for post-season play (which I would support) would have fewer potential unintended consequences.
That would be unfair to cite a particular school. Now if the rule said "teams that play a god awful boring form of basketball, where watching paint dry would be more enjoyable are ineligible" that would accomplish the same thing and not cite a particular school. ;D
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That would be unfair to cite a particular school. Now if the rule said "teams that play a god awful boring form of basketball, where watching paint dry would be more enjoyable are ineligible" that would accomplish the same thing and not cite a particular school. ;D
Toe-May-Toe / Toe-Mah-Toe
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Except for this one: https://www.outkick.com/referees-missed-old-dominion-having-6-players-on-the-court-during-a-game-with-major-ncaa-tournament-implications/ (https://www.outkick.com/referees-missed-old-dominion-having-6-players-on-the-court-during-a-game-with-major-ncaa-tournament-implications/)
I stand corrected
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Currently sitting as the top 3 seed on Bracketmatrix:
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
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Currently sitting as the top 3 seed on Bracketmatrix:
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
Iowa St knocking off Baylor or Utah taking down Zona works for me, preferably the latter.
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Iowa St knocking off Baylor or Utah taking down Zona works for me, preferably the latter.
Just root for straight anarchy!
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Lots of discussion about whether UCLA can catch Purdue for the last 1-seed. In my scrub, I put UCLA ahead of Purdue, then I started bracketing...and discovered it doesn't work. If UCLA is a 1-seed, then all four 1-seeds will be playing on Thursday. That can't happen because there needs to be a destination for the 16-seeds in Dayton on Tuesday (to Thursday) and Wednesday (to Friday). Expect Purdue to capture the last 1-seed so the play-in can go to Columbus.
If it's not Purdue, it's more likely Texas will get the 1-seed in Denver than UCLA.
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Lots of discussion about whether UCLA can catch Purdue for the last 1-seed. In my scrub, I put UCLA ahead of Purdue, then I started bracketing...and discovered it doesn't work. If UCLA is a 1-seed, then all four 1-seeds will be playing on Thursday. That can't happen because there needs to be a destination for the 16-seeds in Dayton on Tuesday (to Thursday) and Wednesday (to Friday). Expect Purdue to capture the last 1-seed so the play-in can go to Columbus.
If it's not Purdue, it's more likely Texas will get the 1-seed in Denver than UCLA.
That's interesting. Would a school ever get the choice between location and whether or not to be a one or two seed?
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Lots of discussion about whether UCLA can catch Purdue for the last 1-seed. In my scrub, I put UCLA ahead of Purdue, then I started bracketing...and discovered it doesn't work. If UCLA is a 1-seed, then all four 1-seeds will be playing on Thursday. That can't happen because there needs to be a destination for the 16-seeds in Dayton on Tuesday (to Thursday) and Wednesday (to Friday). Expect Purdue to capture the last 1-seed so the play-in can go to Columbus.
If it's not Purdue, it's more likely Texas will get the 1-seed in Denver than UCLA.
Interesting. So Purdue gets a 1, UCLA probably gets the 2 seed in the west, Texas and Baylor go to the non-Kansas regions, and Arizona is the 2 in the Kansas region.
Which means Kansas State is the 3 in the west since it's the only region without a Big 12 team.
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That's interesting. Would a school ever get the choice between location and whether or not to be a one or two seed?
The top overall seed gets to pick their region and opening weekend site, but no one else gets that option. I would still like to see a bracket draft, but it's probably too ambitious for the Selection Committee.
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Interesting. So Purdue gets a 1, UCLA probably gets the 2 seed in the west, Texas and Baylor go to the non-Kansas regions, and Arizona is the 2 in the Kansas region.
Which means Kansas State is the 3 in the west since it's the only region without a Big 12 team.
That's exactly what I came up with for those seedlines.
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3Seed playing #14 Seed Kennesaw State in Des Moines with the #6 Seed being Michigan State
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I was really looking hard at Gonzaga over Arizona for the last 2-seed yesterday. I ended up with Arizona at 8 and Gonzaga at 11, but it was one of those cases where the lack of top tier road wins kept the Zags behind 9-Marquette and 10-K State, but if I lined them up with 8 Arizona the Zags were the better option.
After last night's destruction of St. Mary's, I think there's a strong chance the Zags jump up to the 2 line. Their worst metrics was kenpom and it went from 10 to 7. If their other predictives improve by just 1 each, they would have a 6.7 resume average, which warrants a 2-seed. The only question there is resume. They were 9/10 in KPI/SOR yesterday. In recent years, only one team has received a true seed lower than their lowest resume metric. If their KPI and SOR both improve to 8 or better, then Gonzaga likely jumps K-State, Marquette, and Arizona for the last 2.
Though honestly...I'm not sure Gonzaga would want that. Currently, they are likely to end up as a 3-seed out West, but if they go up to the 2-line, they will be unable to pass UCLA and have to get shipped to most likely the East. But because the WCC tournament wrapped Tuesday before the Selection Committee's first meeting, those results will be fully included in any evaluation. The 1-seeds and probably a good portion of the top-16 will be set today and tomorrow. Will be interesting.
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Brew-
Right now I have Kansas State as the 3 seed in the west. Alabama and Kansas get Louisville and Kansas City. Houston is third on my S-Curve, they head to Vegas. Purdue is last 1 seed, partly because of the play-in scenario you cover yesterday.
UCLA is 5th on my S-Curve. They get placed in Vegas. Texas and Baylor can't go to the same region as Kansas, so they head to Louisville and NYC.
Which means Kansas State must be placed in Vegas. I can see Gonzaga getting the 3 seed in Vegas in different scenarios, but I think the scenario I spelled out is most likely.
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3Seed playing #14 Seed Kennesaw State in Des Moines with the #6 Seed being Kentucky
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3Seed playing #14 Seed Kennesaw State in Des Moines with the #6 Seed being Kentucky
Nice, we own Kentucky - would love to kick their a$$ again.
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3Seed playing #14 Seed Kennesaw State in Des Moines with the #6 Seed being Kentucky
I'm not a huge fan of a matchup with Kentucky because they've been coming on stronger lately.
But it would be fun to add to the record of most played matchup in the NCAA tournament.
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Playing Kentucky in the second round wouldn’t be my first choice, but if they’re going to play them better that it be in DesMoines than Columbus.
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I'm not a huge fan of a matchup with Kentucky because they've been coming on stronger lately.
But it would be fun to add to the record of most played matchup in the NCAA tournament.
Kentucky plays some pretty stupid basketball
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Kolek and Oso would shred Tshiebwe in pick and roll.
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Kolek and Oso would shred Tshiebwe in pick and roll.
THat would be the interesting thing about UK
Not sure how we even remotely keep Tshiebwe off the glass and stop him. But at the same time, like you said I think he would be on ice skates the entire time he plays D.
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THat would be the interesting thing about UK
Not sure how we even remotely keep Tshiebwe off the glass and stop him. But at the same time, like you said I think he would be on ice skates the entire time he plays D.
Defend him like Soriano and Sanago.
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3Seed playing #14 Seed Kennesaw State in Des Moines with the #6 Seed being Kentucky
Well I have heard from multiple online peeps that lunardi sucks. But his new bracket updated today has college of Charleston as the next 4 out (they won their conference tourney…)
He also has a real tough weekend draw for Texas A&M, who he has playing in Columbus as a 7 seed against USC.
Annnnd he also has Texas A&M playing in Sacramento as a 7 seed against NC state.
A lot of travel coming up for buzz’s team.
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Well I have heard from multiple online peeps that lunardi sucks. But his new bracket updated today has college of Charleston as the next 4 out (they won their conference tourney…)
He also has a real tough weekend draw for Texas A&M, who he has playing in Columbus as a 7 seed against USC.
Annnnd he also has Texas A&M playing in Sacramento as a 7 seed against NC state.
A lot of travel coming up for buzz’s team.
2 chances to advance would be nice.
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Are we safe on the 3 line?
This result seems like it could yield some recency bias with the committee.
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Are we safe on the 3 line?
This result seems like it could yield some recency bias with the committee.
Yes
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Yes
Perfect.
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Yes
Just saw this on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/DavidWorlock/status/1633863058950082561?t=bhDkPJqPYCa-z8y0h0XVpg&s=19
Marquette in all likelihood is already seeded and locked in as a 3 based on this Tweet.
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Just saw this on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/DavidWorlock/status/1633863058950082561?t=bhDkPJqPYCa-z8y0h0XVpg&s=19
Marquette in all likelihood is already seeded and locked in as a 3 based on this Tweet.
Not losing any sleep over it. Even if they ended up on a 4-line. Have to beat someone
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Baylor loses their QF game. Does MU jump them?
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Baylor about to lose again.
Gimme a 2 seed. They will fall to 22-10.
Marquette is 26-6 with a win over Baylor.
Idc about Quad wins. Marquette has 4 more wins, 4 less losses, and a head to head drubbing. At some point wins and losses has to matter.
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Baylor about to lose again.
Gimme a 2 seed. They will fall to 22-10.
Marquette is 26-6 with a win over Baylor.
Idc about Quad wins. Marquette has 4 more wins, 4 less losses, and a head to head drubbing. At some point wins and losses has to matter.
Iowa State 3-0 vs Baylor. Whoever said the Cyclones matchup well with the Bears was spot on.
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Playing on Saturday probably equals a 2.
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Playing on Saturday probably equals a 2.
Committee said they have already locked in the top 2 lines. So we're either a 2 right now or won't be getting one.
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Committee said they have already locked in the top 2 lines. So we're either a 2 right now or won't be getting one.
They still scrub the bracket, but it's really hard to change much.
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Baylor losing today and MU playing Saturday may flip them. So, win tomorrow and force the committee's hand. Or give MU something to feel dissed about.
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Baylor losing today and MU playing Saturday may flip them. So, win tomorrow and force the committee's hand. Or give MU something to feel dissed about.
Yeah I think we have to at least beat Uconn(or prov tho I doubt they win) to have a shot to pass Baylor.
I stand by it that if we do find a way to win the BET we will be a 2 as ive always said.
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Baylor about to lose again.
Gimme a 2 seed. They will fall to 22-10.
Marquette is 26-6 with a win over Baylor.
Idc about Quad wins. Marquette has 4 more wins, 4 less losses, and a head to head drubbing. At some point wins and losses has to matter.
Unfortunately, what Scoopers say doesn't matter to the selection committee. Hard to believe, dammit, but true.
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Committee said they have already locked in the top 2 lines. So we're either a 2 right now or won't be getting one.
that's what erasers are for
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Unfortunately, what Scoopers say doesn't matter to the selection committee. Hard to believe, dammit, but true.
Ban dis guy! ;D
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AZ and TX win unfortunately. Baylor & K St lose so I'm still hopeful we're in contention but I'd guess we need at least the UConn game tomorrow to make the 2?
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I think with Arizona winning, the 2-seed door is slammed shut. But hey, might as well win the BET and test that theory.
Problem is, Gonzaga may have jumped us on the S-Curve.
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Listening to this I think there is a very real scenario where Marquette jumps Baylor to the 2 line.
Kansas State and Baylor both lost already and Gonzaga's resume is complete.
https://youtu.be/gd8vKbAhM30
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I think with Arizona winning, the 2-seed door is slammed shut. But hey, might as well win the BET and test that theory.
Problem is, Gonzaga may have jumped us on the S-Curve.
Before the Gonzaga versus St Mary’s game most of what we heard was that this late in the season one game won’t change much.
Then the Zags walloped St Mary’s and all of a sudden they jumped several spots in many minds to be in contention for a 2 seed.
Same could happen tonight. Go out, play a great game and beat UConn, whether soundly or just comfortably, and move up into the 2 seed line.
I know most don’t agree with that, but that’s how I’ve felt for a few weeks now.
Outside of some games saying close, Marquette has done nothing wrong since the reveal in the win/loss column. They’ve won every game to this point and won an outright BE Title.
That has to stand for something.
A win tonight would move Marquette to the 2 line imo.
I wouldn’t be crushed if they got a 3, but I’d feel like the committee made a mistake and I hope the team would feel that way to, you know the chip on the shoulder angle.
I just prefer the 2 because, for the most part, the 15s are easier opponents than the 14s.
Does anyone have the statistical data on 15 over 2 versus 14 over 3 upsets?
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You can say it stands for something but that didn't make it so.
Gonzaga was always inches behind us so they didn't have to make a big jump. The difference between us is that they played their games before the cutoff. The selection committee has already seeded the top 4 seeds. They'll scrub again on Saturday but historically it's hard to move after the seeds are set.
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This 2 vs 3 convo is very repetitive ha.
Lets just play tonights game before we revisit it.
Because right now we definitely are a 3
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You can say it stands for something but that didn't make it so.
Gonzaga was always inches behind us so they didn't have to make a big jump. The difference between us is that they played their games before the cutoff. The selection committee has already seeded the top 4 seeds. They'll scrub again on Saturday but historically it's hard to move after the seeds are set.
It may not be an official criteria, but it does stand for something though.
How do I know?
Well because as most all of us do I watch every selection show, and the interviews by the committee chair after the reveal. Several times during those conversations the Chair has alluded to the 1 seeds and their resumes, including things like Quad 1 wins, scheduling a tough schedule, and winning their regular season and conference championships.
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Before the Gonzaga versus St Mary’s game most of what we heard was that this late in the season one game won’t change much.
Then the Zags walloped St Mary’s and all of a sudden they jumped several spots in many minds to be in contention for a 2 seed.
Same could happen tonight. Go out, play a great game and beat UConn, whether soundly or just comfortably, and move up into the 2 seed line.
I know most don’t agree with that, but that’s how I’ve felt for a few weeks now.
Outside of some games saying close, Marquette has done nothing wrong since the reveal in the win/loss column. They’ve won every game to this point and won an outright BE Title.
That has to stand for something.
A win tonight would move Marquette to the 2 line imo.
I wouldn’t be crushed if they got a 3, but I’d feel like the committee made a mistake and I hope the team would feel that way to, you know the chip on the shoulder angle.
I just prefer the 2 because, for the most part, the 15s are easier opponents than the 14s.
Does anyone have the statistical data on 15 over 2 versus 14 over 3 upsets?
I was wondering the same thing. I think there is at least some reasonably sizable difference but I could be wrong.
On top of that, what’s the 2 v 7 vs the 3 v 6 percentages
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Before the Gonzaga versus St Mary’s game most of what we heard was that this late in the season one game won’t change much.
Then the Zags walloped St Mary’s and all of a sudden they jumped several spots in many minds to be in contention for a 2 seed.
Same could happen tonight. Go out, play a great game and beat UConn, whether soundly or just comfortably, and move up into the 2 seed line.
I know most don’t agree with that, but that’s how I’ve felt for a few weeks now.
Outside of some games saying close, Marquette has done nothing wrong since the reveal in the win/loss column. They’ve won every game to this point and won an outright BE Title.
That has to stand for something.
A win tonight would move Marquette to the 2 line imo.
I wouldn’t be crushed if they got a 3, but I’d feel like the committee made a mistake and I hope the team would feel that way to, you know the chip on the shoulder angle.
I just prefer the 2 because, for the most part, the 15s are easier opponents than the 14s.
Does anyone have the statistical data on 15 over 2 versus 14 over 3 upsets?
19 3 seed upsets to 9 2 seed upsets iirc Wikipedia has a whole page on ncaa upsets.
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Does anyone have the statistical data on 15 over 2 versus 14 over 3 upsets?
If only we had all of the knowledge in the world available at our fingertips...
First Google result for "2 seed vs 15 seed": https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2022-03-17/history-2-seeds-vs-15-seeds-march-madness
This article is a year old, but it hasn't really changed despite a 15 winning last year. 2s win 93% of the time.
First Google result for "3 seed vs 14 seed": https://www.thelines.com/odds/march-madness/3-vs-14/
3 seeds are 126-22, which means they win 85% of the time. Still really good odds.
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The world is our oyster
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From The Athletic bracketologist Brian Bennett:
The final No. 2 seed looks open for business after Baylor lost to Iowa State on Thursday, sending the Bears to 11-10 in Quad 1. We went with Gonzaga for now, but keep an eye on Marquette if it can get by UConn in the Big East semis on Friday.
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Still a 3 in Lunardi’s latest iteration, but maybe the most favorable draw I’ve seen to date.
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Still a 3 in Lunardi’s latest iteration, but maybe the most favorable draw I’ve seen to date.
I’m hoping we can be two 3s. If Buzz gets two slots, we should get two slots. More shares for the Big East to divvy up.
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I’m hoping we can be two 3s. If Buzz gets two slots, we should get two slots. More shares for the Big East to divvy up.
Good call. And more opportunities to advance. Lose once? No problem, still have the other 3 spot.
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Good call. And more opportunities to advance. Lose once? No problem, still have the other 3 spot.
It’d also be cool if we got on a couple of hot streaks and faced ourself in the final - guaranteed natty!
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Update:
https://twitter.com/DavidWorlock/status/1634218691331072000?t=Z9R3fiE-xX12uh68hjjA1g&s=19
Last night, the committee placed 8 more teams on the seed list (lines 3-4). Keep in mind that teams on the seed list will be scrubbed so movement over the next couple days is a certainty. 8 more teams were also added to the field yesterday, and more are being added this morning.
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Still a 3 in Lunardi’s latest iteration, but maybe the most favorable draw I’ve seen to date.
UC-Irvine is not a good draw. They can ball. Fortunately Lunardi is nothing more than a guessmaster.
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UC-Irvine is not a good draw. They can ball. Fortunately Lunardi is nothing more than a guessmaster.
Yes Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed UC Irvine in Des Moines with the #6 Seed being San Diego State. He also changed Marquette from the Kansas City Midwest Region to Louisville South Region
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UC-Irvine is not a good draw. They can ball. Fortunately Lunardi is nothing more than a guessmaster.
It's the tournament. There aren't a ton of 'good' draws.
UC Irvine is 96 Kenpom. I'm not sure you'll find a lot of easier draws, mathematically.
Also, COLE.
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Just about ready for the mods to put the word COLE into the naughty words list.
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It's the tournament. There aren't a ton of 'good' draws.
UC Irvine is 96 Kenpom. I'm not sure you'll find a lot of easier draws, mathematically.
Also, COLE.
dumb question by me…I probably should have asked two years ago, but what does COLE mean?
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dumb question by me…I probably should have asked two years ago, but what does COLE mean?
Cult Of Low Expectations
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dumb question by me…I probably should have asked two years ago, but what does COLE mean?
No dumb questions. Keeping track of all the memes around here can be exhausting.
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UC-Irvine is not a good draw. They can ball. Fortunately Lunardi is nothing more than a guessmaster.
Is it official that at least one scooper is afraid of each and every possible 12 - 15 seed?
As I side last week, COLE strengthens itself in the post-season (like a hurricane approaching warm water). Maybe we should have "classes" of COLE - like "Georgia Tech/Radford" COLE and "Hard to beat a team 3 times" COLE...
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Is it official that at least one scooper is afraid of each and every possible 12 - 15 seed?
Yes
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UC-Irvine is not a good draw. They can ball. Fortunately Lunardi is nothing more than a guessmaster.
UC-Irvine can sure ball, they have lost to powerhouses:
Pepperdine, Fresno State, Santa Clara, Harvard, UCSB, CSUF, Long Beach State, UC San Diego, Hawaii
Have they even played a team that will be in the tourney? Be very afraid.....
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By having Baylor remain on the two line ahead of Marquette with 4 more losses the committee is basically saying it doesn't matter how many losses you have as long as you have quad 1 wins. Baylor has 5 more quad wins on double the amount of opportunities. Its also saying that if Marquette would have scheduled Kansas 4 times they could have lost every game and remained in the same exact spot.
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Wisconsin is now listed on zero of the 93 brackets on Bracket Matrix.
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UC-Irvine is not a good draw. They can ball. Fortunately Lunardi is nothing more than a guessmaster.
Teal?
I hope you are joking. If UC-Irvine is not a good draw, then MU should opt for the CBI.
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Brew-
Right now I have Kansas State as the 3 seed in the west. Alabama and Kansas get Louisville and Kansas City. Houston is third on my S-Curve, they head to Vegas. Purdue is last 1 seed, partly because of the play-in scenario you cover yesterday.
UCLA is 5th on my S-Curve. They get placed in Vegas. Texas and Baylor can't go to the same region as Kansas, so they head to Louisville and NYC.
Which means Kansas State must be placed in Vegas. I can see Gonzaga getting the 3 seed in Vegas in different scenarios, but I think the scenario I spelled out is most likely.
The biggest question will be who the top overall seed is. I have Houston there now, simply because at the Reveal Kansas' Q1 wins weren't enough and no one has overcome Houston's metrics. That could put them in KC, but I wonder if they would pick KC knowing they might get Baylor or Texas as the 2-seed in KC (or K-State, certainly one of the three). Houston might choose to go West. That top seed battle is interesting.
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Wisconsin is now listed on zero of the 93 brackets on Bracket Matrix.
Is Ohio State now a 5-seed?
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By having Baylor remain on the two line ahead of Marquette with 4 more losses the committee is basically saying it doesn't matter how many losses you have as long as you have quad 1 wins. Baylor has 5 more quad wins on double the amount of opportunities. Its also saying that if Marquette would have scheduled Kansas 4 times they could have lost every game and remained in the same exact spot.
No that's not what it is saying. Baylor is 11-10 against Quad 1. Marquette is 6-5. If Marquette went 6-9 against Quad 1, they most certainly would not be in the same spot.
Marquette also has a Quad 3 loss. All Baylor's losses have been to Quad 1.
Again, I am not going to lose sleep over being a bottom 2-seed or a top 3-seed. At that point it's just about match-ups. But I get the logic of the committee's thinking.
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No that's not what it is saying. Baylor is 11-10 against Quad 1. Marquette is 6-5. If Marquette went 6-9 against Quad 1, they most certainly would not be in the same spot.
Marquette also has a Quad 3 loss. All Baylor's losses have been to Quad 1.
Again, I am not going to lose sleep over being a bottom 2-seed or a top 3-seed. At that point it's just about match-ups. But I get the logic of the committee's thinking.
to be completely honest I dont understand the logic. Since the top 4 seeds have been released baylor has gone 2-4 and hasn't moved a single seed line on anyone predictions. Why even play the game then? Baylor should have just rested there players.
I do understand there is not much difference between top 3 and bottom 2 however.
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Watching Florida Atlantic play in the Conference USA tournament.
"Please don't throw me in that briar patch" for us playing them.
And my god, what a pit they are playing their tournament in. Frisco Texas arena?
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Florida Atlantic is probably a 7-9 seed. Earliest we likely meet them is S16.
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Wisconsin is now listed on zero of the 93 brackets on Bracket Matrix.
Greg Gard says they are in regardless of what the outcome of the OSU/WIU was to be...
:o
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Watching Florida Atlantic play in the Conference USA tournament.
"Please don't throw me in that briar patch" for us playing them.
And my god, what a pit they are playing their tournament in. Frisco Texas arena?
Please be clear - are we afraid of FAU or not?
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Please be clear - are we afraid of FAU or not?
They all have Ja Morant clones - we’re screwed.
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to be completely honest I dont understand the logic. Since the top 4 seeds have been released baylor has gone 2-4 and hasn't moved a single seed line on anyone predictions. Why even play the game then? Baylor should have just rested there players.
I do understand there is not much difference between top 3 and bottom 2 however.
You've made that abundantly clear by bringing up the same argument about Baylor at least 4 times now despite it being explained repeatedly to you.
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Watching Florida Atlantic play in the Conference USA tournament.
"Please don't throw me in that briar patch" for us playing them.
And my god, what a pit they are playing their tournament in. Frisco Texas arena?
FAU is a clear cut at large team wont be a high seed. But wont get anywhere close to a 6.
We wont be facing them
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Greg Gard says they are in regardless of what the outcome of the OSU/WIU was to be...
:o
Greg Gard is clueless, which surprises me not in the least.
Enjoy your quick out in the NIT, RODENTS!!!!!
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FAU is a clear cut at large team wont be a high seed. But wont get anywhere close to a 6.
We wont be facing them
FAU's best win is Florida. Have they played any teams that will be in the tourney? But they went undefeated in CUSA - be very afraid...
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Hey Greg:
Send us a card from the Kohlhole, where you lose your first NIT game.
https://www.buckys5thquarter.com/wisconsin-badgers-mens-basketball/2023/3/9/23632437/greg-gard-on-wisconsin-badgers-playing-in-nit-i-havent-gone-down-that-road-tyler-wahl-steven-crowl
We'll send you one from Houston!!!!!
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They all have Ja Morant clones
So if they go to Denver for their games they'll end up suspended indefinitely?
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Concerning the 2-3 seed "why-Baylor-and-not-us" I'll say what's already been said:
* We're higher kenpom,NET,AP,CP,MASSEYComposite...maybe in some ratings we're lower but not by much.
* they have 10 losses (a 2-seed really?)
* We beat them on the hardwood by 26 POINTS!!
* LUNARDI has been sloppy. that ESPN bracketology, though popular has had a lot of hiccups. Is he just mailing it in? PALM at CBS is my new friend ;)
But it really comes down to the UCONN game...everyone high on them and expects MU to lose. And perhaps waiting for a W or L to give us a 2 or 3 is reasonable.
And the final thought (as many have said) is 2/3 dont matta....its all matchups. But respect is nice....2 is nice....
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So if they go to Denver for their games they'll end up suspended indefinitely?
We can only hope so we don’t lose!
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None of the top bracketologists have us a two
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html
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None of the top bracketologists have us a two
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html
Clearly not as smart as Scoop.
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None of the top bracketologists have us a two
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html
The SOTG has thoughts on that.
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None of the top bracketologists have us a two
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/rankings.html
nice link, thanks, but were you looking at the 2023 matrix? Before looking I know CBS had us at 2....there are others too. Not the majority sure.
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nice link, thanks, but were you looking at the 2023 matrix? Before looking I know CBS had us at 2....there are others too. Not the majority sure.
Yes CBS has us as a 2. Some bracket called AA has us as a 4 (These jokes write themselves)
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nice link, thanks, but were you looking at the 2023 matrix? Before looking I know CBS had us at 2....there are others too. Not the majority sure.
That's why he linked to the ranking page for past accuracy, it shows Jerry Palm is historically one of the worst out there for picking seeds correctly.
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They all have Ja Morant clones - we’re screwed.
What those clones are packing heat?
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What those clones are packing heat?
No. They have dudes that dunk all over slow white boys from the farm
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That's why he linked to the ranking page for past accuracy, it shows Jerry Palm is historically one of the worst out there for picking seeds correctly.
yeah I saw that and there are a few in upper third.
Hey, I'll agree that most people say 3....and a 2 will probably only come to us if we win in the next few hours.
But I wouldn't say nobody of any consequence sees us as a 2. 2 is reasonable.
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nice link, thanks, but were you looking at the 2023 matrix? Before looking I know CBS had us at 2....there are others too. Not the majority sure.
Palm is objectively terrible. We're going to be a 3. If anyone jumps to the 2 line, it's Gonzaga. But David Worlock said they voted on the 1s & 2s Wednesday and there was strong consensus. If a Marquette or Gonzaga were in there, it would be up for more debate.
Could they scrub and consider moving us up if we win two more? Sure. But I don't think they'll get 7/12 votes late Saturday night to change that when they're thinking more about last teams in and bracketing.
Nothing wrong with a 3.
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Bid Stealer Alert.
Ohio State is rolling through the mediocre Big 10.
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Bid Stealer Alert.
Ohio State is rolling through the mediocre Big 10.
They've played nobody good. A decent run but they have 2 tough games ahead.
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They've played nobody good. A decent run but they have 2 tough games ahead.
What does that say about the Big 10 and Michigan St in particular that they can’t beat a team playing its third game in three days?
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FAU's best win is Florida. Have they played any teams that will be in the tourney? But they went undefeated in CUSA - be very afraid...
Can't we play Georgetown or UW-Green Bay in the NCAA tournament? Those are the only 2 teams in the country I'd feel confident in playing.
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Can't we play Georgetown or UW-Green Bay in the NCAA tournament? Those are the only 2 teams in the country I'd feel confident in playing.
I've heard FAU is a stone cold lock. With that being said, UAB is a real bid stealer opportunity.
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Ohio State could be a bracket buster if it keeps it up.
They just sent Vanilla Soft Serve and the Spartans home.
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What does that say about the Big 10 and Michigan St in particular that they can’t beat a team playing its third game in three days?
Nothing
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Ohio State could be a bracket buster if it keeps it up.
They just sent Vanilla Soft Serve and the Spartans home.
Actually disappointed by this. Assuming we're a 3, I'd have loved to have seen Sparty move up to a 6 so we could annihilate them in the second round.
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I've heard FAU is a stone cold lock. With that being said, UAB is a real bid stealer opportunity.
Uab is the best team in that conference. Will be a shame if they miss out
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I've heard FAU is a stone cold lock. With that being said, UAB is a real bid stealer opportunity.
Yes, FAU is a stone cold lock. Probably a 8 seed that no 1 seed is going to be happy to face.
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Uab is the best team in that conference. Will be a shame if they miss out
Why are they better than FAU?
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Yes, FAU is a stone cold lock. Probably a 8 seed that no 1 seed is going to be happy to face.
Watching them down the stretch today wouldn't scare anyone.
I think they are a good team, but they need to be HOT from deep to be an issue. If you guard the 3, they are quite beatable.
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Watching them down the stretch today wouldn't scare anyone.
I think they are a good team, but they need to be HOT from deep to be an issue. If you guard the 3, they are quite beatable.
Opponent quality and all, they’re 20th in Offensive effective fg% and 21st defensively.
You’re right about the 3. They shoot a ton of them but they also make a lot. Could go the other way where they get hot and upset a 1-seed
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Ohio State could be a bracket buster if it keeps it up.
They just sent Vanilla Soft Serve and the Spartans home.
maybe doogie(not dgies) shoulda followed big bro to the "carry me back" state
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Nobody besides Wisconsin wanted the set.
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Why are they better than FAU?
Fau are frauds because of Mediocre guard play, foul trouble with their big man, too young and not enough scorers.
Uab has proven scorers all over the floor and a really good coach.
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Fau are frauds because of Mediocre guard play, foul trouble with their big man, too young and not enough scorers.
Uab has proven scorers all over the floor and a really good coach.
They have a good turnover % and don’t foul a lot outside Goldin.
Both teams have 3 guys averaging double digits in points with Jelly Walker being high usage.
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They have a good turnover % and don’t foul a lot outside Goldin.
Both teams have 3 guys averaging double digits in points with Jelly Walker being high usage.
Thx Kenpom
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Thx Kenpom
And? I’m asking a legit question. They’re much more efficient, even if they’re a younger team.
I’m also not sure Andy Kennedy is a better coach. 3 tourney appearances since 2006
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And? I’m asking a legit question. They’re much more efficient, even if they’re a younger team.
I’m also not sure Andy Kennedy is a better coach. 3 tourney appearances since 2006
We’ll see tomorrow. Uab should be favored
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We’ll see tomorrow. Uab should be favored
Could be. Wouldn’t mind seeing UAB steal a bid. Jelly Walker is a fun player and they were flying all over the court today. Overwhelmed UNT who is also a decent team
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We’ll see tomorrow. Uab should be favored
They won't be. Probably FAU -2.5 or so. I'd lean UAB.
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Vanderbilt has moved into bid stealer territory after beating Kentucky.
The shills on the SEC Network are saying Vandy should be in now because they have won 10 of their last 11, like that erases the rest of the season.
If nothing else they have come from nowhere to move into serious consideration for an at large bid.
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Palm is objectively terrible. We're going to be a 3. If anyone jumps to the 2 line, it's Gonzaga. But David Worlock said they voted on the 1s & 2s Wednesday and there was strong consensus. If a Marquette or Gonzaga were in there, it would be up for more debate.
Could they scrub and consider moving us up if we win two more? Sure. But I don't think they'll get 7/12 votes late Saturday night to change that when they're thinking more about last teams in and bracketing.
Nothing wrong with a 3.
Can’t wait to hear the head of the committee answer how Marquette, 28-6, 17-3 and BE regular season champion as well as BE Tournament Champion ends up on the same seed line as UConn and one line lower than Baylor.
UConn 25-8, 13-7 and lost to Marquette 2x.
Baylor 22-10, 11-7 and lost to Marquette by 30.
I get it, and I know it doesn’t work this way, but I’ve said this before and I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face…
Sometimes we get too bogged down by numbers, by data, by computers, and we all become robots to what the next guy is saying and what the computer is spitting out.
Marquette is a 2 seed, and if they aren’t, it’s a shame on that Committee.
When they win tomorrow it’ll help all bracketologists “save face” because many will quickly move Marquette to the 2 line before the Selection Show on Sunday.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see BOTH Marquette and Gonzaga on the 2 line, but I think Gonzaga is a bigger stretch than Marquette.
When Marquette wins tomorrow night they will solidify their spot as a 2 seed. Even if they don’t, they should be a 2 seed.
If not, that’s a shame on the Committee.
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Vanderbilt has moved into bid stealer territory after beating Kentucky.
The shills on the SEC Network are saying Vandy should be in now because they have won 10 of their last 11, like that erases the rest of the season.
If nothing else they have come from nowhere to move into serious consideration for an at large bid.
I don't care much Blue because Wisky was eliminated before their win.
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After the game, Fox Sports bracket guy Mike DeCourcy said he was going to move Marquette to a 2. He also said it could move MU to Des Moines for the first 2 rounds and into the Kansas City regional ... along with Kansas.
We absolutely can beat Kansas, but having to play them in KC wouldn't be my preference. But screw it ... seed us wherever, make us play whomever wherever.
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After the game, Fox Sports bracket guy Mike DeCourcy said he was going to move Marquette to a 2. He also said it could move MU to Des Moines for the first 2 rounds and into the Kansas City regional ... along with Kansas.
We absolutely can beat Kansas, but having to play them in KC wouldn't be my preference. But screw it ... seed us wherever, make us play whomever wherever.
We proved tonite that we can play with any team in the country.
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After the game, Fox Sports bracket guy Mike DeCourcy said he was going to move Marquette to a 2. He also said it could move MU to Des Moines for the first 2 rounds and into the Kansas City regional ... along with Kansas.
We absolutely can beat Kansas, but having to play them in KC wouldn't be my preference. But screw it ... seed us wherever, make us play whomever wherever.
Yea I watched Kansas for quite a bit today and that’s a team that screams Final4 and very hard to beat.
Very long, extremely athletic.
Grady Dick is a nightmare to guard, and they were throwing alley oops in crowds where they shouldn’t be thrown, but making them look easy.
You’re right though, at the point in the tournament where we would see them, the Elite8, who cares?
If Marquette made it that far I wouldn’t be concerned about any matchup.
This years tournament seems like the type that if/when Marquette wins game 1 they will just get more and more comfortable as it goes on. They will continue to grow in confidence.
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Can’t wait to hear the head of the committee answer how Marquette, 28-6, 17-3 and BE regular season champion as well as BE Tournament Champion ends up on the same seed line as UConn and one line lower than Baylor.
UConn 25-8, 13-7 and lost to Marquette 2x.
Baylor 22-10, 11-7 and lost to Marquette by 30.
I get it, and I know it doesn’t work this way, but I’ve said this before and I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face…
Sometimes we get too bogged down by numbers, by data, by computers, and we all become robots to what the next guy is saying and what the computer is spitting out.
Marquette is a 2 seed, and if they aren’t, it’s a shame on that Committee.
When they win tomorrow it’ll help all bracketologists “save face” because many will quickly move Marquette to the 2 line before the Selection Show on Sunday.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see BOTH Marquette and Gonzaga on the 2 line, but I think Gonzaga is a bigger stretch than Marquette.
When Marquette wins tomorrow night they will solidify their spot as a 2 seed. Even if they don’t, they should be a 2 seed.
If not, that’s a shame on the Committee.
Agreed Doc.
Looking at these results.
since Feb 14
1 Alabama 1 5-2 2 losses, ranked 12 and 24
2 houston 1 7-0
3 purdue 1. 4-2 2 losses to unranked teams
4 Kansas 1 6-1.
5 Texas 2 4-2. 2 losses ranked 7 and 22
6 arizona 2 4- 2. 2 losses unranked and 4 th.
7 Baylor 2 2-4. 4 losses. #3,#11, and unranked Loss to Iowa St
8 UCLA 2 7-0
9 Tennesee 3 3-4 4 losses. #23,#24, and unranked. Loss to miss
10. Virginia 3 6-2 2 losses. Both unranked
11. Iowa St 3 2-4 4 losses. #3, #22, #9, and 2 unranked
12. Kansas St 3 4-3 3 losses to unranked teams.
13 Indiana 4 2-3 3 losses to unranked teams.
14 Marquette 4 7-0
15 Gonzaga 4 7-0
16 Xavier 4 4-2
Someone, somewhere has to say, “ this computer output, does not compute”. I think both MU and Gonzaga are 2 seeds.
1 seeds. Houston,Kansas, UCLA, Alabama?
2 seeds Purdue, Texas, MU, Gonzaga
3 seeds. Baylor, Az,UCONN, KAN ST
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Can’t wait to hear the head of the committee answer how Marquette, 28-6, 17-3 and BE regular season champion as well as BE Tournament Champion ends up on the same seed line as UConn and one line lower than Baylor.
UConn 25-8, 13-7 and lost to Marquette 2x.
Baylor 22-10, 11-7 and lost to Marquette by 30.
I get it, and I know it doesn’t work this way, but I’ve said this before and I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face…
Sometimes we get too bogged down by numbers, by data, by computers, and we all become robots to what the next guy is saying and what the computer is spitting out.
Marquette is a 2 seed, and if they aren’t, it’s a shame on that Committee.
When they win tomorrow it’ll help all bracketologists “save face” because many will quickly move Marquette to the 2 line before the Selection Show on Sunday.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see BOTH Marquette and Gonzaga on the 2 line, but I think Gonzaga is a bigger stretch than Marquette.
When Marquette wins tomorrow night they will solidify their spot as a 2 seed. Even if they don’t, they should be a 2 seed.
If not, that’s a shame on the Committee.
You're absolutely right. Quad 1 wins be damned...Marquette has just lacked the opportunities that Baylor did. Nothing on their resume shows they should be ahead of Marquette.
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Can’t wait to hear the head of the committee answer how Marquette, 28-6, 17-3 and BE regular season champion as well as BE Tournament Champion ends up on the same seed line as UConn and one line lower than Baylor.
UConn 25-8, 13-7 and lost to Marquette 2x.
Baylor 22-10, 11-7 and lost to Marquette by 30.
I get it, and I know it doesn’t work this way, but I’ve said this before and I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face…
Sometimes we get too bogged down by numbers, by data, by computers, and we all become robots to what the next guy is saying and what the computer is spitting out.
Marquette is a 2 seed, and if they aren’t, it’s a shame on that Committee.
When they win tomorrow it’ll help all bracketologists “save face” because many will quickly move Marquette to the 2 line before the Selection Show on Sunday.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see BOTH Marquette and Gonzaga on the 2 line, but I think Gonzaga is a bigger stretch than Marquette.
When Marquette wins tomorrow night they will solidify their spot as a 2 seed. Even if they don’t, they should be a 2 seed.
If not, that’s a shame on the Committee.
Well said Dr. V!!
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Can’t wait to hear the head of the committee answer how Marquette, 28-6, 17-3 and BE regular season champion as well as BE Tournament Champion ends up on the same seed line as UConn and one line lower than Baylor.
UConn 25-8, 13-7 and lost to Marquette 2x.
Baylor 22-10, 11-7 and lost to Marquette by 30.
I get it, and I know it doesn’t work this way, but I’ve said this before and I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face…
Sometimes we get too bogged down by numbers, by data, by computers, and we all become robots to what the next guy is saying and what the computer is spitting out.
Marquette is a 2 seed, and if they aren’t, it’s a shame on that Committee.
When they win tomorrow it’ll help all bracketologists “save face” because many will quickly move Marquette to the 2 line before the Selection Show on Sunday.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see BOTH Marquette and Gonzaga on the 2 line, but I think Gonzaga is a bigger stretch than Marquette.
When Marquette wins tomorrow night they will solidify their spot as a 2 seed. Even if they don’t, they should be a 2 seed.
If not, that’s a shame on the Committee.
You're getting caught up in what you feel we deserve. You are right, we do deserve a 2 seed. The problem is, 13 teams deserve a top 2 seed. 4 of them will get 1 seeds, leaving 9 teams deserving of a 2 seeds fighting for only 4 spots.
All that being said, I do think we now have the better resume than Arizona. Problem is, that didn't happen until after the committee set the top 2 seed lines. Historically, the committee hasn't allowed for much movement after that point. Maybe this is the year that changes. Of course, Arizona could beat UCLA and that would probably push their resume back above ours.
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Sam Houston State and Utah Valley both get upset in the WAC tourney. Winner of Grand Canyon/Southern Utah to get the autobid. Sam Houston or Utah Valley like would have been seeded on the 13 line. These two will likely be on the 14 line or lower, making the winner a possible first round opponent for MU.
UC Irvine also went down. Winner of UCSB and CSU Fullerton also likely going to end up on the 14/15 seed line.
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Today Joe Lunardi has Marquette as a #3 Seed playing #14 Seed Furman in Columbus with the #6 Seed being Miami
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Sam Houston State and Utah Valley both get upset in the WAC tourney. Winner of Grand Canyon/Southern Utah to get the autobid. Sam Houston or Utah Valley like would have been seeded on the 13 line. These two will likely be on the 14 line or lower, making the winner a possible first round opponent for MU.
UC Irvine also went down. Winner of UCSB and CSU Fullerton also likely going to end up on the 14/15 seed line.
Those are both good results for the high seeds that would’ve faced them.
Sam Houston State especially, they were a mid 60s KenPom team with a top 20 D and 320 tempo. That type of team woulda been a nightmare for whoever they faced
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I think some of the people complaining about the seeding of the Big 12 teams are forgetting that Marquette was a beneficiary of the treatment of teams from strong conferences with strong schedules when they played in the old Big East when the conference would get more than half of its 14 teams in the tournament.
Then when teams with better records would come up, MU fans wouldn’t hesitate to say “who have they played.”
Comparing teams with dramatically different schedules is always going to lead to differences of opinion. There are no trophies awarded for what seed a team gets. Getting worked up about whether a team is an X seed or an x-1 seed never made sense to me.
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Field of 68 After dark stated Committee Chair Chris Reynolds said 6 or 7 teams still being considered for the 1 line. They discussed if Marquette might be that 7th team
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Agreed Doc.
Looking at these results.
since Feb 14
1 Alabama 1 5-2 2 losses, ranked 12 and 24
2 houston 1 7-0
3 purdue 1. 4-2 2 losses to unranked teams
4 Kansas 1 6-1.
5 Texas 2 4-2. 2 losses ranked 7 and 22
6 arizona 2 4- 2. 2 losses unranked and 4 th.
7 Baylor 2 2-4. 4 losses. #3,#11, and unranked Loss to Iowa St
8 UCLA 2 7-0
9 Tennesee 3 3-4 4 losses. #23,#24, and unranked. Loss to miss
10. Virginia 3 6-2 2 losses. Both unranked
11. Iowa St 3 2-4 4 losses. #3, #22, #9, and 2 unranked
12. Kansas St 3 4-3 3 losses to unranked teams.
13 Indiana 4 2-3 3 losses to unranked teams.
14 Marquette 4 7-0
15 Gonzaga 4 7-0
16 Xavier 4 4-2
Someone, somewhere has to say, “ this computer output, does not compute”. I think both MU and Gonzaga are 2 seeds.
1 seeds. Houston,Kansas, UCLA, Alabama?
2 seeds Purdue, Texas, MU, Gonzaga
3 seeds. Baylor, Az,UCONN, KAN ST
Yeah - WTF is going on in Bracket world - most now have Gonzaga ahead of MU.
If we were ahead of them are reveal and this has happened since
MU:
X (19 - Home - Q1)
CU (16 - Away Q1A)
DP (163 - Home - Q4)
Butler (133 - Away - Q2)
SJU (99 - Home - Q3
SJU (99 - N - Q2)
UCONN (8 - N - Q1A)
Zags:
LMU (107 - Away - Q2)
Pepperdine (201 - H - Q4)
San Diego (230 - H - Q4)
Saint Mary's (11 - H - Q1A)
Chicago St (299 - H - Q4)
San Francisco (108 - N - Q3)
Saint Mary's (11 - N - Q1A)
So MU has 2 Q1A wins (against different team), another Q1 win, 2 Q2, 1 Q3 and 1Q4
While Zag has 2 Q1A wins (against same team), 0 Q1a, 1 Q2, 1 Q3 and 3 Q4 wins.
Maybe brackets aren't update - but pleass TAMU and Brew - tell me how Zag would move ahead of MU?
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
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I don’t know whether we’ll be on the two or three line, but I’ll be very pissed if Baylor is ahead of us. There is no way to justify that at this point.
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Not all the brackets have been updated since last night, so the UConn will may not even be playing a role.
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Marquette has won 13/14 and avenged that loss last night. Dr. V''s points are spot on. There are three teams fighting for two spots: MU, Zona, and Gonzaga. There is a zero % chance Baylor is a #2:seed. I am biased but even if Zona beats UCLA the committee will not slot Gonzaga ahead of MU if we slam the door today because they beat SMC twice.
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I don't get the people who say "the committee has already made up their minds on the top 16 seeding and are focusing on the bubble teams". I guarantee they have time for both. Especially today. There are very few bubble teams alive, as opposed to the multitude of teams trying to get to the 1,2 or 3 seed lines. They have computer programs to make sure the criteria is met on who they can play, as well. What else do they have to do. Too cold to play golf.
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I don’t know whether we’ll be on the two or three line, but I’ll be very pissed if Baylor is ahead of us. There is no way to justify that at this point.
I would as well but if it happens I’d at least like the committee to answer for it, though the question would never be asked. Seth Davis will be too focused on why 100% of the Big12 isn’t included and why the Badgers weren’t selected.
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I don't get the people who say "the committee has already made up their minds on the top 16 seeding and are focusing on the bubble teams". I guarantee they have time for both. Especially today. There are very few bubble teams alive, as opposed to the multitude of teams trying to get to the 1,2 or 3 seed lines. They have computer programs to make sure the criteria is met on who they can play, as well. What else do they have to do. Too cold to play golf.
Exactly.
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I don't get the people who say "the committee has already made up their minds on the top 16 seeding and are focusing on the bubble teams". I guarantee they have time for both. Especially today. There are very few bubble teams alive, as opposed to the multitude of teams trying to get to the 1,2 or 3 seed lines. They have computer programs to make sure the criteria is met on who they can play, as well. What else do they have to do. Too cold to play golf.
Because historically they haven't valued conference tournaments and haven't moved teams much as a result.
Now personally I don't think that's right, I think conference tournaments should count just as any other game counts. As much crap as we gave Buzz for his manifesto last season, I do think he should have gotten in to the tournament last year
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They won't be. Probably FAU -2.5 or so. I'd lean UAB.
Uab -1.5 tonight
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Yeah - WTF is going on in Bracket world - most now have Gonzaga ahead of MU.
If we were ahead of them are reveal and this has happened since
MU:
X (19 - Home - Q1)
CU (16 - Away Q1A)
DP (163 - Home - Q4)
Butler (133 - Away - Q2)
SJU (99 - Home - Q3
SJU (99 - N - Q2)
UCONN (8 - N - Q1A)
Zags:
LMU (107 - Away - Q2)
Pepperdine (201 - H - Q4)
San Diego (230 - H - Q4)
Saint Mary's (11 - H - Q1A)
Chicago St (299 - H - Q4)
San Francisco (108 - N - Q3)
Saint Mary's (11 - N - Q1A)
So MU has 2 Q1A wins (against different team), another Q1 win, 2 Q2, 1 Q3 and 1Q4
While Zag has 2 Q1A wins (against same team), 0 Q1a, 1 Q2, 1 Q3 and 3 Q4 wins.
Maybe brackets aren't update - but pleass TAMU and Brew - tell me how Zag would move ahead of MU?
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
Three things. One bracketmatrix.com hasn't updated so the UConn game isn't counted there.
Two, the Zags got their conference tournament games in before the committee seeded the top few lines. It sucks but historically the committee doesn't give much if any weight to games after that point. Having your conference tournament earlier is an advantage.
Three, I think Gonzaga may be a case where all their other metrics were great but they were missing Q1 wins. Since they addressed the biggest hole in their resume, they got a bigger jump.
All that being said, I personally think our resume is superior to Gonzagas. I hope the committee does too.
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Marquette has won 13/14 and avenged that loss last night. Dr. V''s points are spot on. There are three teams fighting for two spots: MU, Zona, and Gonzaga. There is a zero % chance Baylor is a #2:seed. I am biased but even if Zona beats UCLA the committee will not slot Gonzaga ahead of MU if we slam the door today because they beat SMC twice.
Muggsy, Baylor is in that mix. It's 4 teams for 2 spots. I know you can't get that 26 point beat down out of your head but they've had a really good season deserving of a 2 seed. So have we. Let's win tonight and give the committee a really difficult decision.
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Muggsy, Baylor is in that mix. It's 4 teams for 2 spots. I know you can't get that 26 point beat down out of your head but they've had a really good season deserving of a 2 seed. So have we. Let's win tonight and give the committee a really difficult decision.
The Baylor love is so puzzling - a team that was 7 on the curve at the reveal and has lost 4 times since.
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The Baylor love is so puzzling - a team that was 7 on the curve at the reveal and has lost 4 times since.
Has lost 4 times.... in 3 Q1A games and 1 Q1B game. Losing Q1 games doesn't move you down on the S curve. They also won a Q1A game and a Q1B game. Winning Q1 games moves you up the S curve. They either strengthened their resume or at least stood pat since the reveal.
We have made great strides since the reveal but had a lot of ground to cover. It's very close now
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I blame Shaka. We shoulda beaten 'em by 27.
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And I'll echo what Wisblue said. If we switched resumes with Baylor, yall would be screaming about them not having enough Q1 games and too weak of a SOS
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And I'll echo what Wisblue said. If we switched resumes with Baylor, yall would be screaming about them not having enough Q1 games and too weak of a SOS
I’m not sure about that. Think most would be pretty humbled by the fact that we were pounded in the head to head. The only screaming done would be that the team finished 2-4 and is once again collapsing.
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I’m not sure about that. Think most would be pretty humbled by the fact that we were pounded in the head to head. The only screaming done would be that the team finished 2-4 and is once again collapsing.
If Marquette finished like Baylor, NLW and furley would have parade down Wisconsin Avenue
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I’m not sure about that. Think most would be pretty humbled by the fact that we were pounded in the head to head. The only screaming done would be that the team finished 2-4 and is once again collapsing.
Poking my head over on their fan forum, that's not the case. They are screaming about finishing 2-4 but also screaming that they deserve the 2 seed over us and Gonzaga. I guess we must just have better fans.
Just realized I'm talking about Baylor so it's a given that we have better fans but I don't think we're any less of homers
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If Marquette finished like Baylor, NLW and furley would have parade down Wisconsin Avenue
That would be a one person parade, hey?
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Poking my head over on their fan forum, that's not the case. They are screaming about finishing 2-4 but also screaming that they deserve the 2 seed over us and Gonzaga. I guess we must just have better fans.
Just realized I'm talking about Baylor so it's a given that we have better fans but I don't think we're any less of homers
They can cry all they want; they had a chance and blew it down the stretch.
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How many wins does one need to have a ton of losses that just don't matter because they're all "good losses" I mean at a certain point W & Ls is what the seasons actually about...
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You shouldn’t be able to go 2-4 since the reveal and stay on the same seed line. At some point, wins have to be a requirement to maintain your position. I get that they’re losing to really good teams, but they are still LOSING.
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If we get a 3 seed MU’s non conference schedule going forward should be at Kansas, at Duke, and road games against every Big 12 school (since they’ll all be Q1). Skip the tournaments, skip the rivalry games, cancel the home and homes, skip the conference vs. conference games.
Go 0-14 against those teams, no problem. Win even 4 of them? Give us that 1 seed.
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How many wins does one need to have a ton of losses that just don't matter because they're all "good losses" I mean at a certain point W & Ls is what the seasons actually about...
It depends on your whole resume. Look at Virginia They have the same overall record as us and are playing in the ACC championship yet they are projected to be 6 to 8 spots behind us on S Curve. Who you beat matters
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If we get a 3 seed MU’s non conference schedule going forward should be at Kansas, at Duke, and road games against every Big 12 school (since they’ll all be Q1). Skip the tournaments, skip the rivalry games, cancel the home and homes, skip the conference vs. conference games.
Go 0-14 against those teams, no problem. Win even 4 of them? Give us that 1 seed.
I mean you can try that but I wouldn't recommend it. Baylor has 11 Q1 wins and they are either going to be the last 2 or top 3 seed. Oklahoma has 6 Q1 wins and they aren't even making the NIT. I don't think 4 Q1 wins would cut it for a 1 seed. Or even a tourney berth
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You shouldn’t be able to go 2-4 since the reveal and stay on the same seed line. At some point, wins have to be a requirement to maintain your position. I get that they’re losing to really good teams, but they are still LOSING.
If the system is as described it’s flawed. Very good/deep conferences deserve more bids because of their depth, not higher seeds.
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I mean you can try that but I wouldn't recommend it. Baylor has 11 Q1 wins and they are either going to be the last 2 or top 3 seed. Oklahoma has 6 Q1 wins and they aren't even making the NIT. I don't think 4 Q1 wins would cut it for a 1 seed. Or even a tourney berth
Both have a lot of quality wins, because the non-conference season said the league is by far the best. This may be true, but we will not know until the sweet 16 is played how good the Big 12 really is.
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If the system is as described it’s flawed. Very good/deep conferences deserve more bids because of their depth, not higher seeds.
I think there should be a minimum number of conference wins required, which can be achieve with wins in conference tournament. 20 game conference schedules should require at least 9 conference wins, maybe 10 to get in. There is no need to take teams with bad records, just because they have a tough schedule.
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I think there should be a minimum number of conference wins required, which can be achieve with wins in conference tournament. 20 game conference schedules should require at least 9 conference wins, maybe 10 to get in. There is no need to take teams with bad records, just because they have a tough schedule.
Quality vs quantity. Don't entice conferences to try and poach depaul so they can add meaningless wins for that sort of criteria.
This is a pretty strong top This year. SEVEN teams are in 1 seed contention. Someone is gonna get screwed for being good in a year where other topt eams are really frigging good.
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Our conference needs to figure out how to inflate our bottom-feeders NET. Is it making them schedule bad teams and beating them by 30+? Or have them schedule middle of the road teams (like Oklahoma did). When the whole conference is basically Top 75 net, it's impossible to drop too far in the NET
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Our conference needs to figure out how to inflate our bottom-feeders NET. Is it making them schedule bad teams and beating them by 30+? Or have them schedule middle of the road teams (like Oklahoma did). When the whole conference is basically Top 75 net, it's impossible to drop too far in the NET
The scheduling is fine. It’s up to the schools whether they want to be good at basketball or not. DePaul and GTown haven’t. DePaul for a long time and GTown the last few years.
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If the system is as described it’s flawed. Very good/deep conferences deserve more bids because of their depth, not higher seeds.
Thankfully, the system compensates for this flaw by taking many more teams than can realistically win the championship.
Once the tournament starts, seeds aren't all that relevant. Matchups, hot/cold shooting, upsets, and luck can be the difference between losing early and winning it all.
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The scheduling is fine. It’s up to the schools whether they want to be good at basketball or not. DePaul and GTown haven’t. DePaul for a long time and GTown the last few years.
To a point, but I look at Oklahoma. They played one tourney team in the non conference and lost by double digits. They also lost to Sam Houston, beat Arkansas Pine Bluff by only 8, South Alabama by 4. Their key to a good NET preconference was don't schedule the horrible teams.
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To a point, but I look at Oklahoma. They played one tourney team in the non conference and lost by double digits. They also lost to Sam Houston, beat Arkansas Pine Bluff by only 8, South Alabama by 4. Their key to a good NET preconference was don't schedule the horrible teams.
They also beat Alabama by a million points in a non-conference game. That was later in the year. I know the timing probably caused your oversight.
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Uab -1.5 tonight
Opened FAU -1.5. Lots of $$ on UAB
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Anyone want to wager on who is seeded higher, Baylor or Marquette? I'm taking Marquette, regardless of the outcome of tonight's game against X.
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They also beat Alabama by a million points in a non-conference game. That was later in the year. I know the timing probably caused your oversight.
yep. oops
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They also beat Alabama by a million points in a non-conference game. That was later in the year. I know the timing probably caused your oversight.
So if Missouri beats Bama today, does our seeding go up based upon our Secret Scrimmage W?
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Yes. Reverse Beasley.
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Our conference needs to figure out how to inflate our bottom-feeders NET. Is it making them schedule bad teams and beating them by 30+? Or have them schedule middle of the road teams (like Oklahoma did). When the whole conference is basically Top 75 net, it's impossible to drop too far in the NET
You want to schedule as teams in the 130-180 range and beat them by double digits instead of beating the 180-250 range teams.
The quality of team at 150 and 220 really isn't that different, but it means a lot in the computer rankings and NET. That is largely how the power conferences are gaming the system, just like the RPI used to be gamed. It sets a very high baseline in NET for the whole conference, and then they all rise.
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Opened FAU -1.5. Lots of $$ on UAB
Makes sense. Always smart to bet on the better team
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Here are 4 different questions on Baylor and MU:
*Who will the committee seed higher?
*Who would I seed higher based on data, metrics, etc?
*Who do I think is better?
*If they played, who would win?
The first question will be answered tomorrow.
The second is answered by scoopers in this thread fed by their own ego concerning how much they think they know over the next guy.
The third is subjective and clouded a bit by our fanboy-itis...which is fine. A little of Question 2 gets in as well.
The fourth....which I put most stock it....well we have an answer, don't we.
26 points!
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Committee member on CBS says they’ve already “conditionally” seeded 1-8. I doubt much is changing
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Committee member on CBS says they’ve already “conditionally” seeded 1-8. I doubt much is changing
Maybe conditionally means depending on the BET championship game?
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Here are 4 different questions on Baylor and MU:
*Who will the committee seed higher?
*Who would I seed higher based on data, metrics, etc?
*Who do I think is better?
*If they played, who would win?
The first question will be answered tomorrow.
The second is answered by scoopers in this thread fed by their own ego concerning how much they think they know over the next guy.
The third is subjective and clouded a bit by our fanboy-itis...which is fine. A little of Question 2 gets in as well.
The fourth....which I put most stock it....well we have an answer, don't we.
26 points!
I understand the criteria which goes into seeding each team, but I mean cmon. If all things are just about equal and one team destroyed the other team, the destroyer should be seeded higher.
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Yeah - WTF is going on in Bracket world - most now have Gonzaga ahead of MU.
If we were ahead of them are reveal and this has happened since
MU:
X (19 - Home - Q1)
CU (16 - Away Q1A)
DP (163 - Home - Q4)
Butler (133 - Away - Q2)
SJU (99 - Home - Q3
SJU (99 - N - Q2)
UCONN (8 - N - Q1A)
Zags:
LMU (107 - Away - Q2)
Pepperdine (201 - H - Q4)
San Diego (230 - H - Q4)
Saint Mary's (11 - H - Q1A)
Chicago St (299 - H - Q4)
San Francisco (108 - N - Q3)
Saint Mary's (11 - N - Q1A)
So MU has 2 Q1A wins (against different team), another Q1 win, 2 Q2, 1 Q3 and 1Q4
While Zag has 2 Q1A wins (against same team), 0 Q1a, 1 Q2, 1 Q3 and 3 Q4 wins.
Maybe brackets aren't update - but pleass TAMU and Brew - tell me how Zag would move ahead of MU?
http://www.bracketmatrix.com/
Might have to consider how many of those MU wins were close squeakers against average or below average BE teams. I have no problem if that thinking has Gonzaga placed ahead of us.
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I mean you can try that but I wouldn't recommend it. Baylor has 11 Q1 wins and they are either going to be the last 2 or top 3 seed. Oklahoma has 6 Q1 wins and they aren't even making the NIT. I don't think 4 Q1 wins would cut it for a 1 seed. Or even a tourney berth
That’d be 4 non-con Q1 wins. That’d be great. And if MU is a 3, that’s what they should do. Play as many Q1 games as possible. No downside, huge upside. Total wins don’t matter. Q1 wins matter. Total losses don’t matter. Q3 and Q4 losses matter. Can’t lose Q3/4 games if you don’t play any.
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Might have to consider how many of those MU wins were close squeakers against average or below average BE teams. I have no problem if that thinking has Gonzaga placed ahead of us.
It's even simpler than that. Gonzaga has (by a wide margin) the most efficient offense by computer numbers in the NCAA. So the computers say they are better overall.
As an example, Kenpom has their offense number 1 (124.0), the next closest team is Baylor (121.8), we are 6th (120.0) thats a big difference in computer numbers. ON the defensive side, they are at 76th overall (99.8), we are at 63rd (98.9). Even though we are only 5 ranks behind them on offense, and 13 ahead on defense. The net numbers favor Gonzaga.
Now, do those computer numbers really mean anything? The committee says yes.
But the computers said we should have lost to UCONN.
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MU would blow out St. Mary’s too. One of the most overrated (at least analytically) teams in recent memories.
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MU would blow out St. Mary’s too. One of the most overrated (at least analytically) teams in recent memories.
They really need to come up with a better way to rank teams. They are not the 11th best team in the country.
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Opened FAU -1.5. Lots of $$ on UAB
There is a group of "sharps" that have been jumping on early UAB lines and futures all year long.
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That’d be 4 non-con Q1 wins. That’d be great. And if MU is a 3, that’s what they should do. Play as many Q1 games as possible. No downside, huge upside. Total wins don’t matter. Q1 wins matter. Total losses don’t matter. Q3 and Q4 losses matter. Can’t lose Q3/4 games if you don’t play any.
Ah I misunderstood didn't get that you were saying 4 Q1 wins for just the non conference not the whole season. I mean that's a way to do it and if you can win enough games that would be a great strategy (minus the financial implications). You have to be able to win enough though. Keep in mind that Baylor only has 10 losses total and 11 Q1 wins. In the 4-9 example you gave (you said 4-10 but you're only allowed 13 non conference games), that would mean that you would have to go 19-1 in Big East play to match Baylors overall record and 7 of those 19 wins would have to be Q1. This season MU only had 8 Q1 opportunities in conference. So that would be a very thin line to try to just match what Baylor did this season....and again they're only in line for the last 2 or top 3 seed....so 1 seed is not likely in your scenario.
Overall wins and losses matter. Not just as much as other factors. Baylor beats us in most of the other factors. Will our significantly better overall record be enough to overcome that? Maybe, we'll find out tomorrow. I hope we win tonight and make it a very difficult decision
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Remember a year ago when we all laughed at Buzz' manifesto and said things like "should have scheduled a better non conference"? Same applies here. We had a really weak non conference schedule this season this year and it's holding us back. It's not completely our fault, @Notre Dame is usually a Q1, GT on a neutral floor is usually at least a Q3, and Bucky is usually at least Q2. If we beat Mississippi St, we're likely locked in as a 2 seed already, even if we lost Utah (would have essentially traded a Q1 loss/Q4 win for a Q1 win/Q2 loss).
Next season we shouldn't have this issue. Maui will be a beast. Bucky will be on the road so should at least be a Q2. We should get a prime time placement in the Gavitt and B12 battle games. We may even find ourselves with a worse overall record but higher seed.
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Remember a year ago when we all laughed at Buzz' manifesto and said things like "should have scheduled a better non conference"? Same applies here. We had a really weak non conference schedule this season this year and it's holding us back. It's not completely our fault, @Notre Dame is usually a Q1, GT on a neutral floor is usually at least a Q3, and Bucky is usually at least Q2. If we beat Mississippi St, we're likely locked in as a 2 seed already, even if we lost Utah (would have essentially traded a Q1 loss/Q4 win for a Q1 win/Q2 loss).
Next season we shouldn't have this issue. Maui will be a beast. Bucky will be on the road so should at least be a Q2. We should get a prime time placement in the Gavitt and B12 battle games. We may even find ourselves with a worse overall record but higher seed.
And add to the fact we are unlikely to go 17-3 in the BE.
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Remember a year ago when we all laughed at Buzz' manifesto and said things like "should have scheduled a better non conference"? Same applies here.
Not really. Buzz scheduled 8 buy games which is why people were mocking them for it. Not anything to do with high majors dropping an arbitrary Quadrant line.
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Not really. Buzz scheduled 8 buy games which is why people were mocking them for it. Not anything to do with high majors dropping an arbitrary Quadrant line.
It does, just on a different scale. Buzz got left out of the tournament because his noncon was weaker than the other bubble teams. We are struggling to get a 2 seed because our noncon is weaker than other potential 2 seeds.
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It does, just on a different scale. Buzz got left out of the tournament because his noncon was weaker than the other bubble teams. We are struggling to get a 2 seed because our noncon is weaker than other potential 2 seeds.
I thought it was because the big 12 has more teams in q1 not non-con. Am I mistaken?
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Q1 wins matter unless you’re Gonzaga. Then you don’t need them to get a 1 or 2 seed. 2 of their 6 Q1 wins are against St. Mary’s and one is against Michigan State.
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And add to the fact we are unlikely to go 17-3 in the BE.
I mean right? How we gonna lose 3games?
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Lunardi just moved us to a 2.
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Lunardi just moved us to a 2.
Welp, we’re screwed now
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Welp, we’re screwed now
Those 15 seeds make me nervous.
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Q1 wins matter unless you’re Gonzaga. Then you don’t need them to get a 1 or 2 seed. 2 of their 6 Q1 wins are against St. Mary’s and one is against Michigan State.
Q1 wins do matter. So does:
Q3 losses
Q4 losses
Non conference SOS
Overall SOS
Road and neutral records
As well as to a lesser degree:
Average NET win and loss
Overall record
As well as to an even lesser degree:
NET
Game scoring margins
You have to look at the entire resume, not just one or two pieces.
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Can’t wait to hear the head of the committee answer how Marquette, 28-6, 17-3 and BE regular season champion as well as BE Tournament Champion ends up on the same seed line as UConn and one line lower than Baylor.
UConn 25-8, 13-7 and lost to Marquette 2x.
Baylor 22-10, 11-7 and lost to Marquette by 30.
I get it, and I know it doesn’t work this way, but I’ve said this before and I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face…
Sometimes we get too bogged down by numbers, by data, by computers, and we all become robots to what the next guy is saying and what the computer is spitting out.
Marquette is a 2 seed, and if they aren’t, it’s a shame on that Committee.
When they win tomorrow it’ll help all bracketologists “save face” because many will quickly move Marquette to the 2 line before the Selection Show on Sunday.
Honestly, I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see BOTH Marquette and Gonzaga on the 2 line, but I think Gonzaga is a bigger stretch than Marquette.
When Marquette wins tomorrow night they will solidify their spot as a 2 seed. Even if they don’t, they should be a 2 seed.
If not, that’s a shame on the Committee.
Bump.
It’s a 2, and if it isn’t it’s a damn shame on the committee.
Bracketologists everywhere will hustle to get Marquette in their 2 line tomorrow morning methinks
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Q1 wins do matter. So does:
Q3 losses
Q4 losses
Non conference SOS
Overall SOS
Road and neutral records
As well as to a lesser degree:
Average NET win and loss
Overall record
As well as to an even lesser degree:
NET
Game scoring margins
You have to look at the entire resume, not just one or two pieces.
Yes. Q1 wins and Q3/4 losses matter. Q2-4 wins and Q1 losses don’t matter. So schedule 13 Q1 road non con games, win a few, and you’re golden. Seems that’d help the non con and overall SOS and net wins and losses. There’s very little downside given what is valued.
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Yes. Q1 wins and Q3/4 losses matter. Q2-4 wins and Q1 losses don’t matter. So schedule 13 Q1 road non con games, win a few, and you’re golden. Seems that’d help the non con and overall SOS and net wins and losses. There’s very little downside given what is valued.
There's a ton down$ide, just not for your NCAA resume...provided you can win enough.
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Those 15 seeds make me nervous.
Don't get too nervous. That #2 vs #15 upset thing is just hype to get people to watch those games.
All-time since 1985, the #2 seeds are 138-10 (.932 winning pct.) against the #15 seeds.
The #3 seeds are 126-22 (.851 winning pct.) against the #14 seeds.
So historically, in the first round, being a #2 seed is much better than a #3 seed.
In fact, the #2 seeds have a better record than the #3's in every round of the tournament, save for the Final Four round.
For analysis sake, let's assume MU wins its first game of the tournament. Now, what does this mean as a #2 seed or as a #3 seed?
#2 SEED SCENARIO
Assuming MU is a #2 seed and win its first round game, it would then play the #7 or #10 seed in the second round. In the second round, the #2 seed is 110-48 (.696 winning pct.) historically. Furthermore, in the second round the #7 seed is 42-68 (.382 pct.) and the#10 seed is 30-48 (.385 pct.).
#3 SEED SCENARIO
If MU is a #3 seed and wins its first round game, MU would then play the #6 or #11 seed in the second round. In the second round, the #3 seed is 93-53 (.637 pct.). Furthermore, in the second round the #6 seed is 53-58 (.478 pct.) and #11 is 36-41 (.468 pct.).
So, historically being a #2 seed in much better than being a #3 seed in the first and second round. The #2 seed has also proven statistically to give a team an easier path to the Sweet Sixteen. However, there is a statistical outlier that exists in the Sweet Sixteen for the #2 seed that needs to be discussed.
AN OUTLIER IN THE SWEET SIXTEEN
Keep in mind, if Marquette is a #2 and "if" they win their first 2 games, there is a possibility that MU could play a #6 seed in the regional semifinal (Sweet Sixteen). When the #6 seed is in the Sweet Sixteen round it is an amazing 15-20 (.429 pct.) all-time. This outlier is one of the historical statistical outliers.
Although MU, as a #2 or #3 seed, would not play a #4 or #5 in the Sweet Sixteen, the Sweet Sixteen records of these two seeds prove this statistical oddity of the #6 seed's winning percentage in that round.
In the Sweet Sixteen the #4 seed is only 22-48 and the #5 seed is only 10-40. These records equal winning percentages of .314 and .200, respectively. Amazingly, much lower than the .430 winning percentage of the #6 seed in the Sweet Sixteen. So, it is fair to say that when the #6 seed gets into the Sweet Sixteen it has proven to be a very dangerous team in that round.
FURTHER EVIDENCE OF THE SWEET SIXTEEN OUTLIER
Note that the #3 seed is 37-40 (.480 pct.) in Sweet Sixteen.
If MU is a #3 seed and win its first two games it would play either the #2, #7, #10, or #15 in the Sweet Sixteen. Those four seeds have a .720, .357, .375, and .333 winning percentage, respectively, in that round. As you can see, the #7, #10, & #15 have no where near the winning percentage of the #6 seed in the Sweet Sixteen. Of those seeds, only the #2 as expected has a better winning percentage than the #6 seed in the Sweet Sixteen round, but amazingly only by .050 pct.
THE ULTIMATE VERDICT: A #2 OR #3 SEED?
Having said all of this and regardless of the "6 Seed Outlier", I would prefer Marquette to be seeded as a #2. The #15 vs. #2 seed "upset" is proven to be a fallacy and the road for Marquette to the Sweet Sixteen is much easier as a #2. Plus, their geographical placement should be much better as a #2 seed.
I understand that as a #2 seed, the "#6 Seed Outlier" may come into play for Marquette in the Sweet Sixteen and I'm okay with that. This team needs to have some experience winning games in the NCAA tournament and being a #2 should create a nice path for this MU team develop that experience and get a Sweet Sixteen birth. After that, anything is possible for this year's team.
Next year I see this same MU team as a true National Title contender and anything less than a Final Four birth would be a disappointment. This season I'm looking forward to this team making its mark. How far it goes will come down to match-up and experience factors in this tournament.
A #2 seed this year can open the door to something very special this season and next season.
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Great post, glad to have ya here
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #2 Seed playing Colgate in Columbus with Northwestern as the #7 Seed
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Today Joe Lunardi ESPN has Marquette as a #2 Seed playing Colgate in Columbus with Northwestern as the #7 Seed
Colgate as a 15 would be pretty ridiculous, but I like the rest of that draw.
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I love everything about that projection
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Colgate as a 15 would be pretty ridiculous, but I like the rest of that draw.
I expect Colgate to be a #14.
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DeCourcey also has MU a 2.
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I love everything about that projection
That part would be OK, though I also think Colgate might be a 14 given some of the winners in the lower conference tournaments.
What I don't like about Lunardi's bracket is that he has Baylor as the 3 seed in that region.
Yes, I know MU destroyed Baylor in December, and I'm not "scared" of them. But, because of MU's unique style I'd rather see them play someone who hasn't seen them before.
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That part would be OK, though I also think Colgate might be a 14 given some of the winners in the lower conference tournaments.
What I don't like about Lunardi's bracket is that he has Baylor as the 3 seed in that region.
Yes, I know MU destroyed Baylor in December, and I'm not "scared" of them. But, because of MU's unique style I'd rather see them play someone who hasn't seen them before.
Very good point. Also, Baylor would be very motivated to exact revenge for being embarrassed in Milwaukee.
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Very good point. Also, Baylor would be very motivated to exact revenge for being embarrassed in Milwaukee.
Although wisblue's point definitely has merit, I'd happily play Baylor again. No matter your seed, you're gonna have to play good teams in the second weekend. We talk a lot about wanting to avoid physical teams with multiple big men ... and Baylor fits the bill. We match up well with them.
As far as Baylor being extra motivated ... meh. As is the case with every team, both Baylor and Marquette would be plenty motivated to advance -- that's what it's all about in March.
Besides, Shaka also would have plenty of additional motivational points in his quiver: "Sure we beat Baylor, but everybody thinks it was a fluke." Hell, Baylor probably would be favored, giving Shaka more "disrespect" ammo. Again, as if a team at that stage of the tournament should even need such motivation.
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Although wisblue's point definitely has merit, I'd happily play Baylor again. No matter your seed, you're gonna have to play good teams in the second weekend. We talk a lot about wanting to avoid physical teams with multiple big men ... and Baylor fits the bill. We match up well with them.
As far as Baylor being extra motivated ... meh. As is the case with every team, both Baylor and Marquette would be plenty motivated to advance -- that's what it's all about in March.
Besides, Shaka also would have plenty of additional motivational points in his quiver: "Sure we beat Baylor, but everybody thinks it was a fluke." Hell, Baylor probably would be favored, giving Shaka more "disrespect" ammo. Again, as if a team at that stage of the tournament should even need such motivation.
Baylor was pounded by Iowa State on 12/31.
Baylor got really motivated to get revenge on ISU on 03/04. Baylor got pounded again…
Then Baylor got really, really motivated to beat them again on 03/09. They lost again…
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Baylor was pounded by Iowa State on 12/31.
Baylor got really motivated to get revenge on ISU on 03/04. Baylor got pounded again…
Then Baylor got really, really motivated to beat them again on 03/09. They lost again…
I like this narrative. Scratch what I said in this thread about Baylor's revenge factor.
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I'd take my chances against Baylor. But they were missing their best big when we played them in Milwaukee. He still doesn't look like he did in the past since returning from the ACL tear, but he makes a difference for them.
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https://statsbywill.substack.com/p/a-selection-sunday-guide-for-everyone
Worth a read here. Goes into the weeds a bit about where teams are placed in the seed line as well as geographically. Keep this in mind when our name is called.
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Field was selected (very) late last night. Spent this morning scrubbing the seed list, with contingencies on placement involving scenarios for today's five games. Momentarily, we will start bracketing. We'll have to do several of them, as usual.
Marquette is going to be a 2.
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Gang, I'll be elated if we're a "2" and even hope we're a "1" somewhere (which I admit won't happen).
But I don't really care who we play because we're going to have to play the best to be the best. Bring 'em on. We have shown we can play with anyone, anywhere. Just ask UConn, Creighton, Baylor, Villanova and others. When we play them is less important than when we beat them!
F**k 'em!!!!!
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I always expect the selection committee to come up with some weird stuff to enhance the 'story' such as playing against former coaches or non-conference rivals. In this year's selection, I'd look for MU to end up in a bracket with Baylor as the 3 and Purdue as the 1. That would be maximum "story". Would also be unsurprised if PC is the 10 in the same bracket.
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I always expect the selection committee to come up with some weird stuff to enhance the 'story' such as playing against former coaches or non-conference rivals. In this year's selection, I'd look for MU to end up in a bracket with Baylor as the 3 and Purdue as the 1. That would be maximum "story". Would also be unsurprised if PC is the 10 in the same bracket.
I thought they attempt to not match teams that have played unless unavoidable
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I thought they attempt to not match teams that have played unless unavoidable
I believe they try and also part of being a protected seed involves not getting a conference team in the 2nd round so PC shouldn't be slotted with MU if their seeds align to play in the 2nd round.
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MU is now #8 (2 line) on Bracket Matrix.
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I'd take my chances against Baylor. But they were missing their best big when we played them in Milwaukee. He still doesn't look like he did in the past since returning from the ACL tear, but he makes a difference for them.
Thanks for that reminder, wades.
Baylor was pounded by Iowa State on 12/31.
Baylor got really motivated to get revenge on ISU on 03/04. Baylor got pounded again…
Then Baylor got really, really motivated to beat them again on 03/09. They lost again…
Exactly.
This time of year, you should be motivated by the chance to advance in the NCAA tournament and pursue a championship. Period.
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Marquette up to 2 on bracket matrix. Your move ncaa
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Marquette up to 2 on bracket matrix. Your move ncaa
MU is a 2 seed lock…unless the committee stops counting games after a certain point at which point they would need to admit.
Considering MU was one spot ahead of Gonzaga in the reveal, they have no argument to have passed us.
Baylor has zero argument either. They’ve lost 4 times since the reveal. As far as Q1 wins goes, it could very easily be Baylor with 9 and us with 8 as there are some on the fringe. We also are ranked higher in NET and beat them by 26.
I don’t think it’s all that close if all games are counted.
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My prediction for seeding and placement of the top 16 teams:
South (Louisville)- Alabama, UCLA, Baylor, UConn
West (Las Vegas- Houston, Texas, Gonzaga, Virginia
Midwest (Kansas City)- Kansas, Arizona, Tennessee, Xavier
East (New York)- Purdue, Marquette, Kansas State, Duke
I think I complied with the conference affiliation and geography principles, but the NYC region might violate the standard for competitive balance in the regions if those teams are where I had them on the seed list. That could be addressed by flipping Baylor and Kansas State.
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Someone explain to me how Gonzaga could have been ahead of us prior to conference tourneys, both teams win their conference tourney against Q1 opponents, and we pass them for a 2 seed?
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Someone explain to me how Gonzaga could have been ahead of us prior to conference tourneys, both teams win their conference tourney against Q1 opponents, and we pass them for a 2 seed?
Why do you assume they were ahead of us?
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My guess:
We are in the Louisville region, playing the first two in Des Moines as a #2 seed. First round against Montana State. Second will be the winner between Missouri and Utah State.
Then if all holds, we would play #3 Gonzaga before facing the winner of Alabama and Duke.
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My guess:
We are in the Louisville region, playing the first two in Des Moines as a #2 seed. First round against Montana State. Second will be the winner between Missouri and Utah State.
Then if all holds, we would play #3 Gonzaga before facing the winner of Alabama and Duke.
I would looooove that draw.
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My guess:
We are in the Louisville region, playing the first two in Des Moines as a #2 seed. First round against Montana State. Second will be the winner between Missouri and Utah State.
Then if all holds, we would play #3 Gonzaga before facing the winner of Alabama and Duke.
They won’t match us up with Missouri. We played a secret scrimmage against them this year
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I have to say, its fun as heck being anxious for selection sunday strictly to know whether we are a 2 or 3 seed.
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Post on the badger board showing a possible premature CBS post saying the badgers are in. That would suck.
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Post on the badger board showing a possible premature CBS post saying the badgers are in. That would suck.
If thats the case we gotta be a 2 seed
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Post on the badger board showing a possible premature CBS post saying the badgers are in. That would suck.
Didn’t that happen last year also? I think the answer is that they write up a bunch of stories so they can release them right away. Then if it doesn’t happen, they just discard it.
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Didn’t that happen last year also? I think the answer is that they write up a bunch of stories so they can release them right away.
Hope that is the reason.
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Didn’t that happen last year also? I think the answer is that they write up a bunch of stories so they can release them right away. Then if it doesn’t happen, they just discard it.
Yeah I just saw it.
Im pretty sure thats the exact thing that leaked for us during Markus sophmore year and we didnt actually make it.
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Post on the badger board showing a possible premature CBS post saying the badgers are in. That would suck.
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Yeah I just saw it.
Im pretty sure thats the exact thing that leaked for us during Markus sophmore year and we didnt actually make it.
Good. It's easier to crush dreams when they still seem real
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Very apparent Houston doesn’t give a damn about the AAC championship. Down double digits with 3 min left and zero urgency on offense or defense. Must be nice to be that locked into a 1.
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Very apparent Houston doesn’t give a damn about the AAC championship. Down double digits with 3 min left and zero urgency on offense or defense. Must be nice to be that locked into a 1.
Their best player is also injured, guessing they're trying to avoid the same for other key players (because of the #1 lock up you reference)
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Hope that is the reason.
It is. Generic content ready even with the remotest chance.
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Yeah I just saw it.
Im pretty sure thats the exact thing that leaked for us during Markus sophmore year and we didnt actually make it.
Oh yeah, that might have been it. I got my hopes up for a bit that year.
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Post on the badger board showing a possible premature CBS post saying the badgers are in. That would suck.
NIT? 9-11 in BIG and 1st rd loss in their conference tourney in what is basically a play-in, no NCAA for them.
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This would be a complete joke.
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Yeah I just saw it.
Im pretty sure thats the exact thing that leaked for us during Markus sophmore year and we didnt actually make it.
Yeah. Could be they got in. Could be they made blurbs for every team with a shot.
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Yeah. Could be they got in. Could be they made blurbs for every team with a shot.
Standard practice. Have the story ready just in case, so you're not scrambling at the last minute.
Several of those mock up teams will be in the NIT.
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I always expect the selection committee to come up with some weird stuff to enhance the 'story' such as playing against former coaches or non-conference rivals. In this year's selection, I'd look for MU to end up in a bracket with Baylor as the 3 and Purdue as the 1. That would be maximum "story". Would also be unsurprised if PC is the 10 in the same bracket.
Turns out I had 2 of 3 right and forgot about the MSU "story" which our NCAA friends have decided to capitalize on.
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I hope Furman jumps up to the 13 seed line.
That's the one team in Marquette's matchup range I'd rather just avoid. They make a ton of 3s, are old, and don't turn the ball over.
Slawson is a matchup nightmare.
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Slawson is a matchup nightmare.
COLE Slawson
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FAU's best win is Florida. Have they played any teams that will be in the tourney? But they went undefeated in CUSA - be very afraid...
This post did not age well.
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I respect that.
All about the Benjamin's. Go UConn.