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Marquette
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Marquette vs

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Author Topic: OK, so how good is Marquette?  (Read 6214 times)

CountryRoads

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2022, 10:02:10 AM »
I was bullish on the team from the beginning, but I think they’ll be a solid NCAA team and finish in the Top 4 of the BE. Think we finally get that NCAA win this year.

Shaka really bet big on player retention and I think it’s paid huge dividends already. Instead of running off a few guys at the end of the bench and trying to get a better team on paper, he stuck with this group and I think that’s why they are ahead of where most thought they’d be at this point.

MU has a good chance to get on a bit of a roll here and keep the momentum going. Very excited for Saturday and not because they are playing the Badgers, but because I think it’s clear this program is starting to turn the corner.

rgoode57

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2022, 10:20:23 AM »
This team has answered a couple of important questions so far:

1. Oso certainly is an improved player from last year - hugely improved.
2. Kam Jones looks like an improved player who is learning (perhaps reluctantly) to eliminate some of the quick 3-pointers from the parking lot. Starting to be more selective and taking ball to basket more.
3. The freshmen can, in fact, contribute significantly - all three of them.
4. If Wrightsil can get healthy and make a contribution, great. But, it may not happen or comes far enough into the season that it is hard for Shaka to work him in.
5. David Joplin can, on a lot of nights, give us outside shooting if they get him the ball in good rhythm, but he cannot drive the ball effectively yet.
6. The team has to get turnovers to make up for poor rebounding.

Two big questions are not yet answered:

1. Tyler Kolek's shooting. It looks like it is better, but he has to keep taking the shot and looking to score. Last night he passed up two wide open five footers to make a kick out pass. One of those passes was a turnover and the other did result in a made 3-pointer.
2. Omax's overall development. Great game last night, but can he consistently be a high-level performer?

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2022, 11:01:25 AM »
I feel pretty confident about what we'll get on a nightly basis from Tyler and Oso.  A little less so with Kam but I think we're already seeing some improvement in shot selection and him taking the ball to the basketball so hopefully that trend continues. 

On the offensive end, OMax and Joplin are the x-factors, IMO.  If they can develop consistency scoring the ball that will take the team to another level as I believe our defense should be consistent.

Sean, Chase and Ben are already contributing and should only get better, which is a great sign.  At this point, we just have to think anything we get from Wrightsil is gravy. 

nyg

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2022, 11:18:54 AM »
The non conference schedule is winding down.

Purdue: played a team that had just a dominate presence in Edey and a tough environment on the road.  MU was not good at shooting the threes and was a respectable loss

Miss St: a winnable game, but again the threes were not falling.  MSU played great defensively and the difference was on the rebounding side.  Wish they could have won this game, but can't win them all.

Baylor: a once in every 10 year performance.  To press Baylor into 16 turnovers in one half resulting in 24 points, and to make 16 out of 17 straight shots is crazy.  An exceptional win.

I want to see how MU reacts to the big Baylor win against Wisconsin.  Can they speed up the game like they did against Baylor, whose frontline was heavily breathing up and down the court and not getting back on defense.  Wisconsin has some tall players, but do they have the stamina and bench players to keep up. 
Notre Dame will be an away game and would like to see the same gameplan.

That being said, maybe revisit this topic at the end of the non conference schedule after the ND game.  See if Shaka starts cutting back his rotation(he did last year) or keeps the minutes as is, and observe how MU's three point shooting goes in next three games.  That will be a barometer of how good they can be. 

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2022, 11:37:49 AM »
This game was another data point and showed us that the team's ceiling is much higher than previously shown. This is still the same team that struggled against Chicago State (which represents the team's current floor). I don't think teams really get that much better during the season, I think the good ones get more consistent and start to play closer to their ceiling more often than not. The talent is there, the consistency is what I will be looking for the rest of the season. I think Shaka is up to the task.
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MUfan12

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2022, 11:38:50 AM »
They're not gonna have the driving lanes available on Saturday that Baylor gave up. Curious to see how they adjust, particularly OMax.

GoldenEagles03

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2022, 11:51:20 AM »
Gary Parrish has moved Marquette into his Top 25 and 1 at this moment in time.  Long way to go go actually finish that way, but it is a start!

They are at 22 sandwiched between Mississippi State (21) and Baylor (23).  Pretty good logic there.
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MU82

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2022, 12:05:50 PM »
One of the bazillion things I really liked about last night's game is that it's not as if we went wild from beyond the arc to build that huge lead. We were only 6-for-16 (37.5%), and a couple of the misses were ugly. We built the lead through defense, turning D to O, slashing to the hoop and hard work.

If we had built the lead by going something like 13-for-16 from the arc, it would be easy to say, "That'll never happen again." But a lot of what we did in the first half is repeatable and something we control. Now, other teams might not be as loose with the ball, but that's OK.

In the second half, as Baylor tried to get back into the game, we did go 6-for-9 from 3 and that really helped keep Baylor at bay.
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connie

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2022, 12:06:57 PM »
Last night answered the question "How good could they be?" in an emphatic way.  It was great to see.  I think it fair to raise expectations a notch but I don't think it is fair to expect anything close to a similar performance.  This really was a glorious statistical outlier, so quantifying how much higher to shoot is hard.  Instead of finishing 7th-5th in the BE I can see 6-4 and challenging for a bid.  Hope I am just beaten down by years of Wojo underachievement.
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mugrad_89

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2022, 12:20:25 PM »
One of the bazillion things I really liked about last night's game is that it's not as if we went wild from beyond the arc to build that huge lead. We were only 6-for-16 (37.5%), and a couple of the misses were ugly. We built the lead through defense, turning D to O, slashing to the hoop and hard

If we had built the lead by going something like 13-for-16 from the arc, it would be easy to say, "That'll never happen again." But a lot of what we did in the first half is repeatable and something we control. Now, other teams might not be as loose with the ball, but that's OK.

In the second half, as Baylor tried to get back into the game, we did go 6-for-9 from 3 and that really helped keep Baylor at bay.

The important piece I take from this is that they only attempted 16 3’s the entire game.  That shows that they were much more aggressive in taking the ball to the hoop.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2022, 02:25:28 PM by mugrad_89 »

brewcity77

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2022, 12:29:47 PM »
Nova has had a bad non-con but there is no shot they finish bottom 3 with DePaul and Georgetown. Too much pride.

That and $20 will get them a beer at Fiserv.

If Nova starts to show they can beat teams that aren't in the bottom half of college basketball, maybe they can get into that middle tier. But thus far, they're closer to Georgetown and DePaul than they are to any actual NCAA contenders.

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StillAWarrior

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2022, 12:52:05 PM »
Young team that will likely still have a lot of questionable losses.

Please feel free to define the highlighted terms. I'm sure they'll lose games that I think they "should" win. If that's what you're saying, I agree. They'll also win games I think they "should" lose (see, e.g., Baylor). But whether you and I really agree will depend entirely on how you're defining "a lot" and "questionable losses".

We have fizzled out 10 seasons in a row.

Yeah...as optimistic as I'm feeling (in general and specifically on the heels of a fantastic win), it's going to be hard for me to really trust until I see an MU team finish the season strong. What's that old saying? "Fool me six times..."
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Daniel

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #37 on: November 30, 2022, 12:56:18 PM »
I think we take one game at a time - we will have great ones and some hic-cups, but the potential has been shown.   This team CAN play well and when they do they will be competitive with most teams.

Saturday,  not only because it is Wisconsin but also after a huge in, will be real challenge.   Glad it is a back to back home game scenario.   We certainly can beat Wisconsin.   And I think we do.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2022, 02:03:49 PM by Daniel »

mugrad_89

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2022, 01:02:46 PM »
Last nite provided a blueprint on what the team needs to do to be successful - full court pressure, attack the paint, ball movement, not settle for 25 ft 3-point shots 10 seconds into the shot clock and team rebounding.  Will this happen every nite?  Probably not, but the team has shown that its ceiling is higher than a lot of us thought coming into the season.

GoldenEagles03

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2022, 01:08:35 PM »
Please feel free to define the highlighted terms. I'm sure they'll lose games that I think they "should" win. If that's what you're saying, I agree. They'll also win games I think they "should" lose (see, e.g., Baylor). But whether you and I really agree will depend entirely on how you're defining "a lot" and "questionable losses".

Yeah...as optimistic as I'm feeling (in general and specifically on the heels of a fantastic win), it's going to be hard for me to really trust until I see an MU team finish the season strong. What's that old saying? "Fool me six times..."

Questionable meaning like...we were winning that game and just had control, how the heck did we lose?

I have definitely gained confidence in their ability.  No question about it.
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Herman Cain

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2022, 01:12:49 PM »
I have had a bullish outlook since prior to the start of the season. Felt there would be a lot of individual player improvement and good chemistry. Seems like we are seeing good evidence that the individual improvement is there


Have been delighted with the way Shaka prepares the team every game

Even in the losses we were fighting hard

Last night the defense came together at the same time we were making 3s . The result was awesome

Going into the season, I believe we could compete well in conference play. Based on what I see from the rest of the league I continue to believe that .

The Big East gauntlet is a tough one . There may be some bad streaks along the way . However , I believe we will be above .500 in conference play and that should get us in the tournament .
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RushmoreAcademy

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #41 on: November 30, 2022, 01:13:19 PM »
I agree with what some are saying here. Young team, never get too high and never too low.  Other teams we play will make their own adjustments based on how we are playing.   
I agree that it's hard not to get fired up after last night though.

MU82

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #42 on: November 30, 2022, 01:25:52 PM »
Nova has had a bad non-con but there is no shot they finish bottom 3 with DePaul and Georgetown. Too much pride.

In 2011-12, with Jay Wright as coach, with 7 straight NCAAT bids under their belt, and just a couple years removed from a Final Four appearance, Nova finished 13th in the 15-team Big East, with a 5-13 record.

They had pride then. And they had a great coach with a great system. They just didn't have enough talent. And sometimes, when that snowball goes downhill, there's simply no way to stop it.

Will this Nova season be like that one? We'll see!

Yeah...as optimistic as I'm feeling (in general and specifically on the heels of a fantastic win), it's going to be hard for me to really trust until I see an MU team finish the season strong. What's that old saying? "Fool me six times..."

I totally get this. It's human nature. But even comparing this season to last is a stretch. And this team obviously has nothing to do with Buzz's last team or Wojo's teams. The only time anyone on this team will even think about the way the 2018-19 team finished is if they're asked about it by the media.

But sure, as fans we don't want to get our hearts broken again. Dope that I am, though, I'm thinking big!

I think we take one game at a time

Well, it's important for Shaka and the players to do this, and I have every confidence that they will. But it doesn't really matter if fans take it one at a time, two at a time or 9 at a time.

We're allowed to think about February and March -- and next season if we want to. Doing so won't affect this team's ability to prepare for Saturday's game one iota.
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romey

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2022, 01:42:02 PM »
Having been a die hard fan since 1971 (dad was an alum STH at the Milwaukee Arena) this was the biggest victory I have seen in all those years.  I know NCAA Championship and all the others in between, but in terms of shock value - this was it.  Think about this; after last night's game, will there be another game this year that we will not be able to say "we can win this"?  I think not.  We've suffered through mediocrity for some time now.  And there were many games where, before tipoff, I felt we were going to lose.  in my heart, the optimist in me always hoped/wished for the W, but the common sense side took over and told me otherwise.  But now, after having witnessed this level of basketball from this team.  We can beat anyone.

StillAWarrior

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2022, 02:32:07 PM »
And this team obviously has nothing to do with Buzz's last team or Wojo's teams.

I agree. And I was feeling this really strongly on February 3 - "this is Shaka's team and has nothing to do with Wojo's teams that collapsed down the stretch the last couple years." And then...well...you know what happened.

Don't get me wrong...I'm extremely optimistic about this team. Unapologetically. But, I admit that I'll be relieved when we make it to the end of the season without a collapse.

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JakeBarnes

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2022, 03:00:39 PM »
I agree. And I was feeling this really strongly on February 3 - "this is Shaka's team and has nothing to do with Wojo's teams that collapsed down the stretch the last couple years." And then...well...you know what happened.

Don't get me wrong...I'm extremely optimistic about this team. Unapologetically. But, I admit that I'll be relieved when we make it to the end of the season without a collapse.

Somewhere in this is a marketing ploy by Marquette to do Ted Lasso-esque exorcism thing to rid us of the Wojo-Mojo.
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connie

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #46 on: November 30, 2022, 03:05:46 PM »
WOJO-CISM:  A banishment of the ingrained fear that your team will be revealed as far less than the sum of its parts; usually in late February/early March
"Let's be careful out there."  Phil Esterhaus

dgies9156

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #47 on: November 30, 2022, 03:46:29 PM »
Sustained excellence is critical. We have had big wins before. Villanova comes to mind, especially when we beat them in Philadelphia.

We haven’t sustained it. We faded at some point along the road. Yesterday was great but it will mean far more if it is the foundation win on our team’s return to glory.

Marquette has had too many false starts that I won’t say we are back. That’s for our coach and our team to say in the coming days and weeks.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #48 on: November 30, 2022, 04:06:47 PM »
Sustained excellence is critical. We have had big wins before. Villanova comes to mind, especially when we beat them in Philadelphia.

We haven’t sustained it. We faded at some point along the road. Yesterday was great but it will mean far more if it is the foundation win on our team’s return to glory.

Marquette has had too many false starts that I won’t say we are back. That’s for our coach and our team to say in the coming days and weeks.

MOPE

goldeneagle91114

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Re: OK, so how good is Marquette?
« Reply #49 on: November 30, 2022, 04:15:55 PM »
WOJO-CISM:  A banishment of the ingrained fear that your team will be revealed as far less than the sum of its parts; usually in late February/early March

Listen, I'm just as excited as the next person regarding the win last night. But I'm not ready to anoint this team as even Top 30 caliber right now. As a few have stated already - and as mentioned in The Athletic article (get a subscription if you don't already have one) a FORM of what happened last night needs to be repeatable and happen again, and again in order to get rid of the "wojo-cism" that has so deeply penetrated this university. Even the guys on The Field Of 68 After Dark podcast brought up the fact that Marquette folded down the stretch last year.

Now, Win the remainder of the non-con schedule and i think we might be on to something!