OK, so how good is Marquette?

[MU82]

Several of us thought this team would be at least as good as last season's team, thought we'd make the NCAA tournament.

Those of us who felt that way were counting on guys like Oso, O-Max, Kolek, Kam and Joplin showing marked improvement in their second seasons in Shaka's system and on Sean being an impact freshman. We were counting on that to make up for the departure of an All-Big East stud, the loss of a solid guy in Morsell, and, to a lesser degree, the losses of Elliott and Kuath.

So far, all of that has happened, and we are a win over Madison away from being back in the top 25.

I don't think any of us expected a smooth, bump-free ride. The 17-point half against Miss St, the late collapse against a top-5 Purdue team and the lousy (albeit victorious) effort vs Chicago State, have been the bumps so far. But there also have been many really positive signs. And obviously, last night was way above and beyond "really positive."

I thought a top-5 BEast finish was realistic, but I have to admit that I'm upgrading my expectations a little.

Even if I say that it's ridiculous to expect last night's performance to be replicated, we've gotten several glimpses already this young season of what this team's ceiling can look like, and it's pretty damn high.

Creighton and UConn look like the class of the BEast, but everything that's taken place this season suggests to me that a top-3 finish and 4-6 NCAAT seed definitely could happen. And if we beat Creighton in our BEast opener ... look the eff out!

It's fun to be excited about Marquette basketball, baby. Coincidentally, earlier this week, a few friends and I bought tickets for the Feb. 25 DePaul game at FF and the Feb. 28 game at Butler. Psyched to see an MU team that could be just about ready to clinch an NCAAT bid right around then!!

We Are (clap clap) Marquette (clap clap)!

[GoldenEagles03]

Probably best to temper expectations.

Young team that will likely still have a lot of questionable losses.

We are a decent team with a lot of work to do. One thing is clear though...this team is bought in to Shaka and they work as hard as any Marquette team has worked.  That could go a long way when they start to develop.

I would say it is still realistic to finish anywhere from 3-9 in the Big East because you just never know what a season has in store.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Better than a lot of people thought pre-season.  IMO this is a tournament team that will be nowhere near 8th or 9th in the Big East as some had projected. 

Hopefully this year they will be better able to handle the grind-it-out nature of the Big East in January and February. I think our depth helps us in this regard, but enough to make up for our lack of experience? We will see...and that's the fun of the journey.

[MU82]

Better than a lot of people thought pre-season.  IMO this is a tournament team that will be nowhere near 8th or 9th in the Big East as some had projected. 

Hopefully this year they will be better able to handle the grind-it-out nature of the Big East in January and February. I think our depth helps us in this regard, but enough to make up for our lack of experience? We will see...and that's the fun of the journey.

Excellent points, Sultan. How good Marquette is now matters ... but how good we are in February and March matters more.

Probably best to temper expectations.

I like having great expectations, especially if I honestly believe those expectations are realistic.

But you obviously are free to temper your expectations, Mr. Georgia Tech by 3.

[5DollarPitcher]

Assuming Baylor does not turn out to be total frauds, this should be the perfect springboard opportunity for a tourney bid. 

Wisconsin and Notre Dame: If we can go 2 for 2 there we might really have something.

Then with a bit of focus (and some luck), in a down Big East, there's no reason we can't be competing for the conference title and a top 5 tourney seed.

Tempering expectations is the exact opposite of what we should be doing right now.  We did that for the last decade.

[PointWarrior]

COLE lingers a long time.

Probably best to temper expectations.

Young team that will likely still have a lot of questionable losses.

We are a decent team with a lot of work to do. One thing is clear though...this team is bought in to Shaka and they work as hard as any Marquette team has worked.  That could go a long way when they start to develop.

I would say it is still realistic to finish anywhere from 3-9 in the Big East because you just never know what a season has in store.

[rgoode57]

Yes, last night was fantastic, but it does not mean that we are contenders for the Final Four now - it just means the team has potential. Hopefully, last night helps the players see their potential and motivates them to keep working hard. But, it is a long season that will have lots of twists and turns.

[MU82]

Yes, last night was fantastic, but it does not mean that we are contenders for the Final Four now - it just means the team has potential. Hopefully, last night helps the players see their potential and motivates them to keep working hard. But, it is a long season that will have lots of twists and turns.

The good thing is that nobody here believes we are contenders for the Final Four (at least not yet), and that the optimists here believes our team has great potential.

One thing I have absolutely no doubt about is whether or not this team will work hard.

[MuggsyB]

Several of us thought this team would be at least as good as last season's team, thought we'd make the NCAA tournament.

Those of us who felt that way were counting on guys like Oso, O-Max, Kolek, Kam and Joplin showing marked improvement in their second seasons in Shaka's system and on Sean being an impact freshman. We were counting on that to make up for the departure of an All-Big East stud, the loss of a solid guy in Morsell, and, to a lesser degree, the losses of Elliott and Kuath.

So far, all of that has happened, and we are a win over Madison away from being back in the top 25.

I don't think any of us expected a smooth, bump-free ride. The 17-point half against Miss St, the late collapse against a top-5 Purdue team and the lousy (albeit victorious) effort vs Chicago State, have been the bumps so far. But there also have been many really positive signs. And obviously, last night was way above and beyond "really positive."

I thought a top-5 BEast finish was realistic, but I have to admit that I'm upgrading my expectations a little.

Even if I say that it's ridiculous to expect last night's performance to be replicated, we've gotten several glimpses already this young season of what this team's ceiling can look like, and it's pretty damn high.

Creighton and UConn look like the class of the BEast, but everything that's taken place this season suggests to me that a top-3 finish and 4-6 NCAAT seed definitely could happen. And if we beat Creighton in our BEast opener ... look the eff out!

It's fun to be excited about Marquette basketball, baby. Coincidentally, earlier this week, a few friends and I bought tickets for the Feb. 25 DePaul game at FF and the Feb. 28 game at Butler. Psyched to see an MU team that could be just about ready to clinch an NCAAT bid right around then!!

We Are (clap clap) Marquette (clap clap)!

It's still too early to know.  As Tower said, it was just one game.  I'm confident in stating we're definitely better than 9th in the BEast.  Before the game I wrote that I hope O-Max and Joplin step-it up.  I also 100% saw the barrage coming before it happened, our guys had a different look and disposition last night.  Now, consistency is still a question mark.  I will say that if TyKo and O-Max are playing near their top level we're gonna be a very tough out.  This team is deep and Shaka is gaining more confidence in our entire roster.

[MDMU04]

This team's system runs on the defense pressuring the ball handler, having length in the passing lanes, denying post entry passes, and closing out on perimeter shots.  The defense keys the offense (deflections, turnovers, long rebounds) with transition opportunities that create open looks at the basket.

They do this with a roster of guys that are long and quick, and play with intense effort and energy.  Last night we had both.  Baylor looked like they expected a cakewalk. Our guys were up for the game, punched them in the mouth and Baylor wanted no part of it.  They were ready to get back on that bus halfway through the first half.

Nothing was easy for Baylor last night.  It seemed like every entry pass into the paint was very well defended, and most of their shots from distance were heavily contested.  If that type of defensive energy comes to the arena every night, MU will win a lot more games than they lose.

But progress is not linear.  It's easy to get up for the #6 team in a national prime time game your arena.  I anticipate there will be a few games on the schedule where we are left scratching our heads from a lack of effort on the defensive end and a resulting bogged down offense.  It's on Shaka to get his guys ready to play every night.

[tower912]

We are never as good as our best win or as bad as our worst loss.   Or some such drivel.    I addressed this with Goose elsewhere.   There are questions about this team (as with most teams in most sports) that will only be answered with time.
What adjustments will MU make when...
teams pound the ball inside in order to get Oso in foul trouble?
other teams crash the o-boards?
 they stay home when TK starts driving, taking away passing lanes?
start posting up Sean?
good shots don't fall?

Last night, we saw how good MU can be.  Not too long ago, MU scored 17 points in a half.   It is a long season.   Enjoy the ride.

[Goose]

Last night was hopefully a glimpse into the future of the program. There is going to be a long time before we see a performance like that again and I am going to enjoy it. I am sticking with my early season prediction of top 4 in BE, tourney bid locked up in February and one win in NCAA. This is program that is still building a foundation, but it is doing with a seasoned HC, a group of athletic basketball players and a common goal.

OMax is the key to how good the team is going to be and I am sticking with my belief that OMax proves to be the difference maker this season. There are a lot of options for Shaka and I love how he subs freely and never seems concerned on who he puts out there. Plus, defense travels!!!

[Elonsmusk]

F*ck 'em

That 9th place coaches poll finish in The Big East is going to be absolute motivational fuel for Shaka and this team.  I think we will finish no lower than 4th and a good chance to finish 3rd - that's a threeway race between St. Johns, Xavier and us IMO.

Think it is entirely possible that we win the WI, ND and Creighton games and springboard into conference play with great confidence - and that chip on our shoulder motivation.

[MuggsyB]

I know I'm nitpicking here but I'd like to see Stevie feel more comfortable offensively. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I know I'm nitpicking here but I'd like to see Stevie feel more comfortable offensively. 

Yeah, he has a weird shot. But he is SO good defensively!

[Tha Hound]

Probably best to temper expectations.

Young team that will likely still have a lot of questionable losses.

We are a decent team with a lot of work to do. One thing is clear though...this team is bought in to Shaka and they work as hard as any Marquette team has worked.  That could go a long way when they start to develop.

I would say it is still realistic to finish anywhere from 3-9 in the Big East because you just never know what a season has in store.

Laughed out loud at this post. The guy who was so sure of his loss predictions now comes with his latest and greatest prediction: Marquette will finish anywhere from the top of the conference, to the middle, to maybe even the bottom! Wow love that insight

[The Lens]

To everyone who wants to point out we scored 17 points in a half...we almost won that game.  We led later.  This team has shown to be competitive playing a lot of different ways.

I think we're solidly 3rd-5th in the BE.  Hope to make some progress in the BET + NCAA.  A win in each would be great. 

[MUfan12]

Brian Hamilton wrote a great piece about last night. Here's part of it-

https://theathletic.com/3951785/2022/11/30/marquette-baylor-shaka-smart/?redirected=1

Be patient … but impatient.

Don’t look for a time jump to what everyone wants it to look like, internally or externally, no matter how desperately they want it to look like that. But don’t settle for less than the next step, however large or small it is. “It’s understanding they’re not going to be all the way where you want them to go, all the time,” Smart said late Tuesday, gripping a telltale rolled-up box score in a Fiserv Forum hallway, “but we’ve gotta demand it.”

Only a few minutes earlier, of course, Smart left the scene of an asteroid impact, a night that was necessary for what he’s trying to build and also a pretty terrible argument for everyone to chill for a minute while it’s built. Marquette 96, No. 6 Baylor 70 was an actual thing that happened on a basketball court. Not something out of a hallucination. Not a chapter of Golden Eagles fan fic. By 8 p.m. local time on Tuesday, the building was up for grabs. Five minutes after that, the place was what lay beyond. A 17,000-seat sweat lodge. A portal to a metaverse. Dogs and cats living together. The elders will speak of it for generations.

For a good long while Tuesday, the idealized version of Shaka Smart’s Marquette came to life. Something the second-year coach surely sees in his wildest dreams. It had to happen, at some point. Even across the six wins over ranked teams a year ago, it wasn’t this. Instead, this happened on Nov. 29, 2022, all of 40 games into Smart’s time occupying an office at the Al McGuire Center. “We can play,” sophomore guard Kam Jones said. “We belong on the court with anybody.”

And here’s the part no one wants to hear but absolutely has to, the Category 5 wind that Smart knows he may lean into for the foreseeable future: It happened, but it has to happen again. Marquette demonstrated what it can be under its still semi-new head coach but has to show it can be its optimal self over and over and over. There have been plenty of days and nights over the past few years that felt like a revival and went nowhere, and if we’re being overly picky, this perfect version of Marquette existed for 20 minutes on Tuesday. That’s an amuse-bouche.

[Elonsmusk]

Brian Hamilton wrote a great piece about last night. Here's part of it-

https://theathletic.com/3951785/2022/11/30/marquette-baylor-shaka-smart/?redirected=1

Be patient … but impatient.

Don’t look for a time jump to what everyone wants it to look like, internally or externally, no matter how desperately they want it to look like that. But don’t settle for less than the next step, however large or small it is. “It’s understanding they’re not going to be all the way where you want them to go, all the time,” Smart said late Tuesday, gripping a telltale rolled-up box score in a Fiserv Forum hallway, “but we’ve gotta demand it.”

Only a few minutes earlier, of course, Smart left the scene of an asteroid impact, a night that was necessary for what he’s trying to build and also a pretty terrible argument for everyone to chill for a minute while it’s built. Marquette 96, No. 6 Baylor 70 was an actual thing that happened on a basketball court. Not something out of a hallucination. Not a chapter of Golden Eagles fan fic. By 8 p.m. local time on Tuesday, the building was up for grabs. Five minutes after that, the place was what lay beyond. A 17,000-seat sweat lodge. A portal to a metaverse. Dogs and cats living together. The elders will speak of it for generations.

For a good long while Tuesday, the idealized version of Shaka Smart’s Marquette came to life. Something the second-year coach surely sees in his wildest dreams. It had to happen, at some point. Even across the six wins over ranked teams a year ago, it wasn’t this. Instead, this happened on Nov. 29, 2022, all of 40 games into Smart’s time occupying an office at the Al McGuire Center. “We can play,” sophomore guard Kam Jones said. “We belong on the court with anybody.”

And here’s the part no one wants to hear but absolutely has to, the Category 5 wind that Smart knows he may lean into for the foreseeable future: It happened, but it has to happen again. Marquette demonstrated what it can be under its still semi-new head coach but has to show it can be its optimal self over and over and over. There have been plenty of days and nights over the past few years that felt like a revival and went nowhere, and if we’re being overly picky, this perfect version of Marquette existed for 20 minutes on Tuesday. That’s an amuse-bouche.

Great article...especially loved the bolded.  The Athletic is well worth its subscription cost. 

[brewcity77]

In the Anonymous Eagle poll, I had us 3rd in the Big East. I'd still have us there, but the order of the teams around us has changed. UConn at the top, line, Creighton, line, Marquette narrowly ahead of Xavier. Those are the four current tourney contenders.

After that, a mix of Providence, St John's, Butler, and Seton Hall hoping to get into that bubble conversation. The bottom is Nova, DePaul, and Georgetown. Maybe a healthy Nova gets into that next category up, but at 2-5 with losses to Portland and Temple, they seem more likely to fall down this list than rise up it.

[tower912]

To everyone who wants to point out we scored 17 points in a half...we almost won that game.  We led later.  This team has shown to be competitive playing a lot of different ways.

I think we're solidly 3rd-5th in the BE.  Hope to make some progress in the BET + NCAA.  A win in each would be great.

Yes.   MU's defense kept them in it.   MU came back and took a lead and then faded late.   I didn't get worked up about the loss like so many did.   When MU has another clunker, I will remind everyone about the Baylor game.   

[5DollarPitcher]

In the Anonymous Eagle poll, I had us 3rd in the Big East. I'd still have us there, but the order of the teams around us has changed. UConn at the top, line, Creighton, line, Marquette narrowly ahead of Xavier. Those are the four current tourney contenders.

After that, a mix of Providence, St John's, Butler, and Seton Hall hoping to get into that bubble conversation. The bottom is Nova, DePaul, and Georgetown. Maybe a healthy Nova gets into that next category up, but at 2-5 with losses to Portland and Temple, they seem more likely to fall down this list than rise up it.

Nova has had a bad non-con but there is no shot they finish bottom 3 with DePaul and Georgetown. Too much pride.

[Galway Eagle]

Nova has had a bad non-con but there is no shot they finish bottom 3 with DePaul and Georgetown. Too much pride.

Things people said about DePaul in the 90s and Georgetown a few years ago.

[MU82]

To everyone who wants to point out we scored 17 points in a half...we almost won that game.  We led later.  This team has shown to be competitive playing a lot of different ways.

I think we're solidly 3rd-5th in the BE.  Hope to make some progress in the BET + NCAA.  A win in each would be great.

It's fair to point out that we scored 17 points in a half ... AND that we had a chance to win that game. As you just did (and others have).

In looking for season highlights and lowlights so far, scoring 17 points in a half WAS a lowlight. I'm as high on this team as anybody is, but it's OK to point out that everything hasn't been perfect, nor will everything be perfect in every game going forward.

And speaking of which ...

I know I'm nitpicking here but I'd like to see Stevie feel more comfortable offensively. 

Baylor gave him the Derrick Wilson treatment last night. Left him wide, wide, wide open and dared him to shoot. He had to take those shots, but the results won't make him any more comfortable. He seemed tentative on his drives, too, a little loose with the basketball.

If others are hitting, his defense makes him a net positive. Just so solid. But he's a candidate to lose minutes to Sean (as he did last night) if his shot doesn't fall.

MUfan12: Thanks for posting the Hamilton article. Great read, and obviously accurate.

[GoldenEagles03]

Laughed out loud at this post. The guy who was so sure of his loss predictions now comes with his latest and greatest prediction: Marquette will finish anywhere from the top of the conference, to the middle, to maybe even the bottom! Wow love that insight

Because as of right now any of that is possible.  Last night doesn't just mean we are going to finish as a good team.  We have fizzled out 10 seasons in a row.  Last night showed how good we can be but it doesn't show how good we are.

If we start to see more results like last night it will be easy to move their range of conference finishes from 3-9 to 3-6 range, but we need more evidence.

All I know is this team is fun to watch work because they all try extremely hard even though some of them are limited offensively at this point in their careers.