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Author Topic: Omax  (Read 2785 times)

BCHoopster

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Omax
« on: November 21, 2022, 11:54:31 PM »
Omax scored 31 playing a cupcake, today I do think he made a bucket.  Yes, he is a solid defender that does not understand the game. Twice he had rebounds, first thing did then is dribble and lose it. I do blame his teammates about the steal in the backcourt, but a guard should be getting the ball from him.  This team will get better as the season goes along, but Shaka has to put restraints on Kam, hard to watch.  Another year of losing close games. Not sure I love the offense, MSU took out the pick and roll which makes Oso a non factor. Then Shaka keeps on recruiting skinny non-rebounding kids, not better with the 2 more guards next year. Lots of buckets on TV, every team has bigs that have some muscle, MU non.  Lucky the Big East sucks this year so they still have a chance to win some games!

CountryRoads

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Re: Omax
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2022, 12:09:48 AM »
It’s hard for me to say a bad word about Omax. He gives maximum effort. He was the one guy who came through on the biggest stage last year. He’s not without flaws though. It’s absolute chaos whenever the ball is in his hands or even near him. He’s completely out of control at all times, he starts running the other way before he has even corralled the ball, and he has zero concept for where the defenders are. I really love his effort though so I think he’ll come through in some big games this year. 

Johnny B

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Re: Omax
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2022, 12:10:06 AM »
he made a last second prayer 3 from the corner. But yes, he needs  to be a lot better if we wanna be sucessful.

tower912

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Re: Omax
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2022, 04:48:37 AM »
Cannot fault the effort.   Still going a little too fast.
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Viper

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Re: Omax
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2022, 06:50:34 AM »
Having absolutely zip off the bench behind Oso is a killer.
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swoopem

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Re: Omax
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2022, 07:32:30 AM »
He’s the most out of control player I can remember. The only other player that comes to mind is DJO but DJO was good and really only out of control when he got a full head of steam and would go coast to coast while dribbling above his head

Is Omax still leaving early to go pro?
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tower912

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Re: Omax
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2022, 07:34:55 AM »
Somewhere between sophomore year Cain and sophomore year Wilson.   You can see it is all there.  It just needs to slow down for him.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

BCHoopster

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Re: Omax
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2022, 08:25:12 AM »
He’s the most out of control player I can remember. The only other player that comes to mind is DJO but DJO was good and really only out of control when he got a full head of steam and would go coast to coast while dribbling above his head

Is Omax still leaving early to go pro?

What league would that be?

swoopem

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Re: Omax
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2022, 08:58:32 AM »
What league would that be?

That’s exactly what I’ve been wondering. Him going pro was the talk of the summer
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MU82

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Re: Omax
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2022, 09:10:55 AM »
That’s exactly what I’ve been wondering. Him going pro was the talk of the summer

How many Scoopers were seriously talking about him going pro?

We do this all the time. One or 3 or 5 people have a hot take and then it becomes a theme here. I've been guilty too; for example, just one mope called Markus a "cancer," and I've made references to it, as if 100 Scoopers had called him that -- I've stopped doing it because it was stoopid. One or two guys talked about us not being able to score 50 last season, and that became a regular dig. Etc.

My point being, I don't think there was anything anywhere near any kind of prevailing thought that O-Max had a chance to be an NBA player after this season.

Of course, as we've seen with Vander, Carton and especially Bailey, just because a guy doesn't have much (or any) chance of being an NBA player, it doesn't mean he won't declare for the draft. I have no idea where O-Max fits in that realm; I sure hope he's being realistic and getting good advice. I mean, O-Max has to know that Lewis was 5x the prospect he was and didn't get drafted.

He's not NBA material, 99.9999% of Scoopers know it, and 98% (or more) knew it before the season, too. Doesn't mean he's not a solid college basketball player with a shot at being a good to very good college player.
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rocky_warrior

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Re: Omax
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2022, 09:13:39 AM »
How many Scoopers were seriously talking about him going pro?

There were a few, but I thought the hubub was that we are over signed for next year, but not to worry because a player already told Shaka he was going pro after this year.  I think many assumed that was OMax - it may not have been?
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Its DJOver

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Re: Omax
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2022, 09:18:27 AM »
We also have a tendency to way overreact.  Chase has a nice game and we have people saying he's the best pro prospect on the team.  Sean has a nice game and there are calls for him to start.  Omax had some nice stretches last year where it was realistic to see him making a jump to being a NBA level prospect.  That doesn't seem to have been the case.  It's just the nature of being a fan.

Daniel

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Re: Omax
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2022, 09:20:04 AM »
OMax has problems that close coaching should be able to correct - if he responds.  Same with Kam - they need to be like Kolek in attitude to change and get coached up and get better.   

Wojo had problems recruiting point guards.   We now have that under control mostly.  But we have problems recruiting bigs.  Yes we recruit tall thin kids who are going up against sturdier players.  Hopefully the recruiting process gets better in all fronts but especially with bigs.

tower912

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Re: Omax
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2022, 09:27:56 AM »
I thought, and still think, that Omax's size, speed and ability to guard multiple positions translates to the NBA better than Justin.  Clearly, his offensive game needs to improve.   But he has to do it.  If Juan and Cain can make it....
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Omax
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2022, 09:52:13 AM »
I thought, and still think, that Omax's size, speed and ability to guard multiple positions translates to the NBA better than Justin.  Clearly, his offensive game needs to improve.   But he has to do it.  If Juan and Cain can make it....

Yep, I'm constantly amazed how many people think college production is what matters when projecting pro players. What matters is body type and defense. Offense is a distant third.
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wadesworld

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Re: Omax
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2022, 09:57:27 AM »
Yep, I'm constantly amazed how many people think college production is what matters when projecting pro players. What matters is body type and defense. Offense is a distant third.

Shooting is very important.
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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Omax
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2022, 10:01:09 AM »
Shooting is very important.

Not even close to defense and body type.
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Goose

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Re: Omax
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2022, 10:06:18 AM »
There were few, if any, that were more bullish on Omax coming into the season than I was, and time will tell. IMO, he is the key to this team having success in BE play and am not jumping off the train. My optimism stemmed from the fact that when he slowed things down last year, he showed a great deal of promise. If he can start hitting some shots maybe things slow down for him.

That being said, I will not argue with anyone for criticism thrown his way thus far this season. He has been wildly inconsistent and reckless with the ball. In addition, he really has not shown any flashes, in real games, of being a multi offensive threat. At this point, I am disappointed but believe much better days are ahead for Omax.

As for my comment on him being the next guy to leave early for the NBA, I still believe that he is a great athlete, potential to be an elite defender and he has offensive skills when he plays under control. I think he is light years beyond where Cain was a sophmore and a much more polished basketball player.

Newsdreams

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Re: Omax
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2022, 10:08:44 AM »
Not even close to defense and body type.
Yes and shooting can be easier to correct and if you take the time off practice to work on your shot it should improve.
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TheGym

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Re: Omax
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2022, 10:15:48 AM »
He’s the most out of control player I can remember. The only other player that comes to mind is DJO but DJO was good and really only out of control when he got a full head of steam and would go coast to coast while dribbling above his head

Is Omax still leaving early to go pro?

Greg Elliot is the most recent one.  Loved his attitude but everything seemed to be out of control.  Watched a Pitt game a few days ago and nothing has changed.

rgoode57

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Re: Omax
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2022, 10:35:21 AM »
Omax is a very athletic guy who plays extremely hard and is a significant asset on defense. On offense, he is too often out of control and tries to dribble too much. Unfortunately, he is not a strong rebounder, which is surprising given his size and athleticism. But, that is partly because he is frequently guarding the perimeter and is not under the basket on defense. I love his effort. However, with a starting lineup of Oso, Omax, Kolek, Mitchell, and Kam Jones, there is not a lot of offensive firepower there.

MU82

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Re: Omax
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2022, 10:57:38 AM »
If Juan and Cain can make it....

This is the best argument for O-Max to have an NBA career. I don't see it, at least not yet, but we'll see.
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BCHoopster

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Re: Omax
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2022, 11:29:51 AM »
There were a few, but I thought the hubub was that we are over signed for next year, but not to worry because a player already told Shaka he was going pro after this year.  I think many assumed that was OMax - it may not have been?

Not saying Omax might leave, but another player for sure is leaving, that player got over recruited, probably leave in spring.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Omax
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2022, 12:07:22 PM »
Not saying Omax might leave, but another player for sure is leaving, that player got over recruited, probably leave in spring.

They’ve been “out-smarted”
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jesmu84

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Re: Omax
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2022, 12:59:51 PM »
If Omax could be simply a 3, D and rebound guy, it'd go a long way.

Right now he can't hit that corner 3

MU82

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Re: Omax
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2022, 01:04:13 PM »
There were a few, but I thought the hubub was that we are over signed for next year, but not to worry because a player already told Shaka he was going pro after this year.  I think many assumed that was OMax - it may not have been?

Good point.

Not saying Omax might leave, but another player for sure is leaving, that player got over recruited, probably leave in spring.

Yes, and who knows ... if Shaka wants to bring in a transfer, there could be more than one who gets Shaka'd, Rattled and Rolled.
"We have a severe problem in American life today called the assault on truth." -- Pulitzer Prize winning New Yorker editor David Remnick

BCHoopster

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Re: Omax
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2022, 01:12:44 PM »
There were few, if any, that were more bullish on Omax coming into the season than I was, and time will tell. IMO, he is the key to this team having success in BE play and am not jumping off the train. My optimism stemmed from the fact that when he slowed things down last year, he showed a great deal of promise. If he can start hitting some shots maybe things slow down for him.

That being said, I will not argue with anyone for criticism thrown his way thus far this season. He has been wildly inconsistent and reckless with the ball. In addition, he really has not shown any flashes, in real games, of being a multi offensive threat. At this point, I am disappointed but believe much better days are ahead for Omax.

As for my comment on him being the next guy to leave early for the NBA, I still believe that he is a great athlete, potential to be an elite defender and he has offensive skills when he plays under control. I think he is light years beyond where Cain was a sophmore and a much more polished basketball player.

Goose, I tried to answer you but not techie, if you want to email me at Bobc44@aol.com that would be fine, tried answering and it came right back at me. Boone as
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Pakuni

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Re: Omax
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2022, 01:19:44 PM »
Yep, I'm constantly amazed how many people think college production is what matters when projecting pro players. What matters is body type and defense. Offense is a distant third.

Not really. You're right about NBA teams caring mostly about the upside that comes with size and athleticism (not so much body type), but not defense vs offense.
NBA teams would much, much rather draft a guy with a high offensive ceiling and hope to teach him defense, than a defensive player with limited offense, and think they can teach him how to shoot/score. Offense is a far more instinctual/natural ability than defense.
It's why guys like Jimmer Fredette go ahead of Kawhi Leonard, and Marshan Brooks goes ahead of Jimmy Butler.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 01:45:14 PM by Pakuni »

tower912

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Re: Omax
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2022, 01:27:29 PM »


Yes, and who knows ... if Shaka wants to bring in a transfer, there could be more than one who gets Shaka'd, Rattled and Rolled.
Shaka and awed (odd) man out.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Omax
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2022, 02:03:47 PM »
Not really. You're right about NBA teams caring mostly about the upside that comes with size and athleticism (not so much body type), but not defense vs offense.
NBA teams would much, much rather draft a guy with a high offensive ceiling and hope to teach him defense, than a defensive player with limited offense, and think they can teach him how to shoot/score. Offense is a far more instinctual/natural ability than defense.
It's why guys like Jimmer Fredette go ahead of Kawhi Leonard, and Marshan Brooks goes ahead of Jimmy Butler.

You have it backwards my man. NBA is all about who you can guard and they bank on being able to teach you offense. Jimmy Butler was only drafted because of his defense. While we all love JFB, his senior year he didn't make an All-Big East team despite there being three teams back then. He was an honorable mention. He wasn't considered to be one of the top 16 players in his conference but he was selected 30th in the NBA draft because teams saw the size/athleticism (probably a better descriptor than what I used) and the defensive ability.
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And the wisdom to know the difference.

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Goose

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Re: Omax
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2022, 02:13:39 PM »
TAMU

If you look at Omax vs. Cain/Juan at this point of their careers it is Omax in a landslide. He might not ever be the college player I hope he becomes, but his body, speed and D is going to help him earn a living playing basketball.

Pakuni

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Re: Omax
« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2022, 02:16:20 PM »
You have it backwards my man. NBA is all about who you can guard and they bank on being able to teach you offense. Jimmy Butler was only drafted because of his defense. While we all love JFB, his senior year he didn't make an All-Big East team despite there being three teams back then. He was an honorable mention. He wasn't considered to be one of the top 16 players in his conference but he was selected 30th in the NBA draft because teams saw the size/athleticism (probably a better descriptor than what I used) and the defensive ability.

So Marhsan Broooks went ahead of Jimmy in that draft because he projected better defensively?
Jimmer Fredette was a top 10 pick because of his defense?
If teams prioritized defense, Jimmy would have gone much higher than 30th. Teams knew he had the potential to be a defensive stopper in the NBA, but had serious questions about his offensive upside. Thus, he squeaked into the first round, whereas an all-offense, no defense guy like Jimmer was a lottery pick.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2022, 02:25:07 PM »
What league would that be?

Where is Bailey playing? Probably that league
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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Omax
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2022, 02:41:48 PM »
So Marhsan Broooks went ahead of Jimmy in that draft because he projected better defensively?
Jimmer Fredette was a top 10 pick because of his defense?
If teams prioritized defense, Jimmy would have gone much higher than 30th. Teams knew he had the potential to be a defensive stopper in the NBA, but had serious questions about his offensive upside. Thus, he squeaked into the first round, whereas an all-offense, no defense guy like Jimmer was a lottery pick.

I didn't say offense wasn't considered, I said it was a distant 3rd to size/athleticism and defense. You are making a strawman.  Jimmer's offense was elite plus he had PG skills so he was drafted higher. Marshon Brooks was a great defender in college and had the right size/build to be an NBA PG. Picking random players that you perceive as being bad on defense who got drafted doesn't help your argument.
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Pakuni

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Re: Omax
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2022, 03:06:46 PM »
I didn't say offense wasn't considered, I said it was a distant 3rd to size/athleticism and defense. You are making a strawman.  Jimmer's offense was elite plus he had PG skills so he was drafted higher. Marshon Brooks was a great defender in college and had the right size/build to be an NBA PG. Picking random players that you perceive as being bad on defense who got drafted doesn't help your argument.

Last thing and we can agree to disagree.
1. I never claimed you said "offense doesn't matter" or anything close to that. The only straw man here is yours.
2. Jimmer did not have point guard skills. It's one of the reasons he flopped in the NBA.
3. Brooks never projected as a point guard in the NBA and was never viewed as a good (much less great) defender. Go read his pre-draft profiles (I supplied a couple below). None I found mentioned defense as a positive attribute, much less call him a great defender. In the pros, his defense was so bad his teammates made jokes about it.


"I watched him play extensively this season in person and on tape and I wonder if he's going to be able to get away with some of the things that he did at Providence, the way he monopolizes the ball, his shot selection, the tunnel-vision he shows, the bad body language, the lack of enthusiasm for playing defense"
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/marshon-brooks-6347/ ©DraftExpress

" Needs to put forth more intensity and effort on the defensive end …"

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/marshon-brooks/

And what his Nets teammates thought of his defense:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/12wk1u/derons_face_when_asked_about_marshon_brooks/
https://www.netsdaily.com/2012/11/11/3630534/marshon-brooks-defense-subject-of-brooklyn-nets-jokes

We R Final Four

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Re: Omax
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2022, 03:11:08 PM »
You have it backwards my man. NBA is all about who you can guard and they bank on being able to teach you offense. Jimmy Butler was only drafted because of his defense. While we all love JFB, his senior year he didn't make an All-Big East team despite there being three teams back then. He was an honorable mention. He wasn't considered to be one of the top 16 players in his conference but he was selected 30th in the NBA draft because teams saw the size/athleticism (probably a better descriptor than what I used) and the defensive ability.
I think you know that all conference teams arent selected in the manner in which you are representing. The league’s 5th best pg in a particular season doesn’t usually make a team…..does that mean hes not even a top 20 player in the league? No.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2022, 03:14:00 PM by We R Final Four »

TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Omax
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2022, 03:18:02 PM »
Last thing and we can agree to disagree.
1. I never claimed you said "offense doesn't matter" or anything close to that. The only straw man here is yours.

The arguments you were making "Jimmer was drafted for his defense" imply that I said that offense doesn't matter. Of course Jimmer was drafted for his offense, he reached an offensive level few ever reach.

2. Jimmer did not have point guard skills. It's one of the reasons he flopped in the NBA.

He did in college. He averaged over 4 assists a game and the thought was that he could develop them in the pros. He couldn't.

3. Brooks never projected as a point guard in the NBA and was never viewed as a good (much less great) defender. Go read his pre-draft profiles (I supplied a couple below). None I found mentioned defense as a positive attribute, much less call him a great defender. In the pros, his defense was so bad his teammates made jokes about it.


"I watched him play extensively this season in person and on tape and I wonder if he's going to be able to get away with some of the things that he did at Providence, the way he monopolizes the ball, his shot selection, the tunnel-vision he shows, the bad body language, the lack of enthusiasm for playing defense"
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/marshon-brooks-6347/ ©DraftExpress

" Needs to put forth more intensity and effort on the defensive end …"

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/marshon-brooks/

And what his Nets teammates thought of his defense:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/12wk1u/derons_face_when_asked_about_marshon_brooks/
https://www.netsdaily.com/2012/11/11/3630534/marshon-brooks-defense-subject-of-brooklyn-nets-jokes

Alright I'll give you that one. I clearly misremembered Brooks as a defender though I'll add that he had to play as de-facto PF for Providence because of how small they were. He didn't play PG in college but he did project as a PG in the pros, clearly it didn't work out for him.
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The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball

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Re: Omax
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2022, 03:25:34 PM »
I think you know that all conference teams arent selected in the manner in which you are representing. The league’s 5th best pg in a particular season doesn’t usually make a team…..does that mean hes not even a top 20 player in the league? No.

...That's not how those teams work. First team All-Big East that year was Kemba Walker, Austin Freeman, Ben Hansborough, Ashton Gibbs, Marshon Brooks, and Dwight Hardy, 6 guards. 2nd team was Preston Knowles, DJO, Brad Wanamaker, Rick Jackson, and Corey Fisher, 4 guards and a Forward. Third team was Chris Wright, Tim Abromaitis, Jeremy Hazell, Kris Joseph, and Corey Stokes, 3 guards and 2 forwards. So Jimmy was the 4th best forward but didn't make any of the All-Big East teams.

Those teams are based on one season of college production and heavily skew towards offensive stats. That's why I brought it up. Jimmy couldn't crack this top 16 list but because of his defensive ability he was draft 30th overall.
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Re: Omax
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2022, 06:47:38 PM »
Pretty sure Bailey's playin' in da League of Women's voters, hey?
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Re: Omax
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2022, 07:16:14 PM »
There are certain guys who are elite defenders that have length and athleticism that get drafted because they have potential offensively (Sochan this year comes to mind). But by and large offensive skill set is way, way more important. Nobody was drafting Paolo or Zion 1 overall for their defensive abilities.
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Re: Omax
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2022, 07:13:30 AM »
Omax plays like an octopus with lo g arms and legs spread out in different directions. This form works good for defense but terrible for offense.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2022, 07:21:11 AM »
Omax plays like an octopus with lo g arms and legs spread out in different directions. This form works good for defense but terrible for offense.

Why is that terrible for offense?
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ATL MU Warrior

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Re: Omax
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2022, 07:26:55 AM »
Why is that terrible for offense?
Everybody knows that octopuses suck at offense.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2022, 07:33:45 AM »
The ball gets stuck instead of moving.
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Re: Omax
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2022, 09:21:00 AM »
The ball gets stuck instead of moving.

Well yeah ... octopi have all those suction cups on their arms!
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Re: Omax
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2022, 09:22:38 AM »
Omax plays like an octopus with lo g arms and legs spread out in different directions. This form works good for defense but terrible for offense.

I think it also gives the impression that he is working hard and causing trouble. He does do both, but perhaps it’s also a bit out of control and wasted motion/energy.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2022, 09:26:08 AM »
21Jump

I agree it looks like wasted energy to me as well. I am getting old, but I thought last year he definitely slowed down and looked more in control after the first 6-7 games. That is my hope for this year.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2022, 09:32:21 AM »
21Jump

I agree it looks like wasted energy to me as well. I am getting old, but I thought last year he definitely slowed down and looked more in control after the first 6-7 games. That is my hope for this year.

Goose

I agree and think he will settle in. I think he could be great if he uses his length to press the ball handler and first pass, but I think his flailing nature gets him off balance then he has to catch up. The catch up plays, hustle blocks from behind look great and are an indication of effort, but it could also be an indication that we are allowing ourselves to get beat. Defense is tough as we all know, everyone has to buy in. One guy presses the PG, one or two guys slide and rotate on the drive, and one guy ball watches which leads to a score. Gotta be dialed in every moment. We have the guys, go hard for 3 minutes, sub, go hard, sub, then settle in and wear them out.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2022, 11:43:13 AM »
We have a foot of snow in this thread.  Hopefully, the new board the letter writers promised is right around the corner
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Re: Omax
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2022, 11:46:09 AM »
Newsie - knock it off.  Everyone else...WTF?  I'll get the snowplow out now...
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Re: Omax
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2022, 12:13:36 PM »
 I have a friend who is an NBA scout and we recently talked about their draft and who they took. He told me has was going to be in SF the coming weekend looking at 20 PGs. “ 10 will be tremendous athletes and 10 will be basketball players who also happen to be tremendous athletes”. He said everyone they draft is a project and they always have guys they don’t draft in their pocket to develop. One guy they drafted this year they plan on leaving in Europe for several years . athleticism might get you a look but it is more than that to advance

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Re: Omax
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2022, 12:18:56 PM »
Of course.    Eventually, you have to produce.   
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Re: Omax
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2022, 02:19:40 PM »
Newsie - knock it off.  Everyone else...WTF?  I'll get the snowplow out now...
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Re: Omax
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2022, 07:11:34 PM »
Of course.    Eventually, you have to produce.
Production is understood
They’re looking for people who understand and get the game

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Re: Omax
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2022, 08:18:51 AM »
O-Max seems to be a great guy whom his teammates love, he attacks the game with an all-out intensity, he appears to love playing defense, and he definitely has some offensive skills. I am very glad that Shaka brought him to Marquette.

But I'm not gonna lie: Just about every time he has the basketball and starts one of his damn-the-torpedoes, whirling-dervish drives, I think there's about a 50/50 chance he's gonna either lose the basketball or be called for an offensive foul.
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Re: Omax
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2022, 08:47:25 AM »
He has a little bit of sophomore Cain in him right now.   He has to keep attacking, though.   The team needed it last night since Joplin phoned it in.   And the team will need it going forward.
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Re: Omax
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2022, 09:01:18 AM »
O-Max seems to be a great guy whom his teammates love, he attacks the game with an all-out intensity, he appears to love playing defense, and he definitely has some offensive skills. I am very glad that Shaka brought him to Marquette.

But I'm not gonna lie: Just about every time he has the basketball and starts one of his damn-the-torpedoes, whirling-dervish drives, I think there's about a 50/50 chance he's gonna either lose the basketball or be called for an offensive foul.

Safe bet he's the NCAA leader in dribbling the ball off his own leg and out of bounds.
OMax has the tools to be a good basketball player and on the occasional magical night, it all comes together for him. But for the most part, he's not a good basketball player.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2022, 09:11:48 AM »
Yet.    And the improvement is there.   
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Pakuni

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Re: Omax
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2022, 09:22:42 AM »
Yet.    And the improvement is there.

Remains to be seen.
In three non-buy games, he's scored 14 points, had 15 boards, and had seven turnovers to zero assists, while shooting 31.2% from the floor, including 1-for-7 from behind the arc, and 42.8% from the line.

He's still young for a junior and, yes, he has tools, but besides feasting on cupcakes (one in particular) he really hasn't shown much this season.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2022, 10:09:34 AM »
At the game last night, I focused on Omax the entire time he was on the court. One thing that stood out to be was ability to use both hands very effectively around the basket. I get why many on here are not fans, yet many were big Cain fans, and I think there is still a tremendous amount of upside to his game. I am still very confident that he is going to play a big part in any team success that happens this year.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2022, 10:23:40 AM »
At the game last night, I focused on Omax the entire time he was on the court. One thing that stood out to be was ability to use both hands very effectively around the basket. I get why many on here are not fans, yet many were big Cain fans, and I think there is still a tremendous amount of upside to his game. I am still very confident that he is going to play a big part in any team success that happens this year.

He has the ability.  What I'm looking for (and Tower mentioned this) is the counterattack Goose.  Not just from O-Max but from ALL of our perimeter players once they get into the paint.  There's no way to sugarcoat this dilemma, we do an exceedingly poor job passing off the dribble, seeing the floor when the help comes, planting two feet 6 feet from the rim and taking that point blank shot, and changing lateral direction on our straight vertical drives to find contact and get two free throws. 

The "counterattack" right now is either in ghost mode or doesn't exist and generating points in the paint is absolutely critical to future success.  Mentally I think we need to see the full picture here but right now it's a colossal struggle.  Can we get there Goose?  Perhaps the pressure of these next two foes will bring out better overall hoops from our guys?

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Re: Omax
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2022, 10:28:05 AM »
It would be a huge help for the team if Omax slowed down, stopped trying to dribble so much, rebounded a bit better, and scored just 10 or 12 points consistently. What are the odds of that happening soon? Not good. He looks pretty much like the same player he was last year.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2022, 10:32:12 AM »
Muggsy

You are one of my favorite scoopers, but I think you spend more time worrying about the points you noted than the coaching staff. This team will get a ton of easy baskets if they make outside shots. I did not keep track, but they made a lot of layups and dunks last night.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2022, 10:35:41 AM »
Yeah, I honestly don't get the angst around this team.
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Re: Omax
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2022, 10:46:25 AM »
It would be a huge help for the team if Omax slowed down, stopped trying to dribble so much, rebounded a bit better, and scored just 10 or 12 points consistently. What are the odds of that happening soon? Not good. He looks pretty much like the same player he was last year.
i’m worried about the Wisconsin game. RED will force tempo. However, that might play well to both Omax and Joplin. Forces our guys to slow down. If Kolek and Jones can ‘create’, Omax…and Joplin might have big games.
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Re: Omax
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2022, 10:50:02 AM »
You don't want this team to slow down and play Wisconsin's pace. That's how you have a half like they did v. Miss State.
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Re: Omax
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2022, 10:52:05 AM »
Viper

Last year going to UW I worried about UW forcing the tempo and us struggling. I feel very confident that it will be the Marquette Warriors setting the tempo next week. I like MU to win by 10+ next Saturday.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2022, 11:16:01 AM »
Muggsy

You are one of my favorite scoopers, but I think you spend more time worrying about the points you noted than the coaching staff. This team will get a ton of easy baskets if they make outside shots. I did not keep track, but they made a lot of layups and dunks last night.

I'm concerned about offensive droughts Goose which we have seen in our two losses.  We had a lot of trouble scoring in the h-court and missed quite a few in the paint and couldn't get to the FT line. 

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Re: Omax
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2022, 11:33:47 AM »
Viper

Last year going to UW I worried about UW forcing the tempo and us struggling. I feel very confident that it will be the Marquette Warriors setting the tempo next week. I like MU to win by 10+ next Saturday.
Really? 10+ win?
Man do I hope you are correct….but I see no way in hell this happening.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2022, 12:03:47 PM »
At the game last night, I focused on Omax the entire time he was on the court. One thing that stood out to be was ability to use both hands very effectively around the basket. I get why many on here are not fans, yet many were big Cain fans, and I think there is still a tremendous amount of upside to his game. I am still very confident that he is going to play a big part in any team success that happens this year.

For the record, Goose, I am a fan of O-Max. I like a lot of what he brings to the table, and I expressed that in my previous post.

He simply plays out of control too often.

I keep waiting for the game to "slow down" for him, and hopefully it will against opponents that actually have a chance to beat us. If it does -- kind of the way it did for Vander in his 3rd year under Buzz -- O-Max can be a heck of a weapon for our team.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2022, 12:15:55 PM »
For the record, Goose, I am a fan of O-Max. I like a lot of what he brings to the table, and I expressed that in my previous post.

He simply plays out of control too often.

I keep waiting for the game to "slow down" for him, and hopefully it will against opponents that actually have a chance to beat us. If it does -- kind of the way it did for Vander in his 3rd year under Buzz -- O-Max can be a heck of a weapon for our team.

Yup.

He usually brings the most energy on the defensive end. He’s the most erratic/aggressive early and often.
Id imagine Shaka doesn’t want to reign that in, he prefers it continues.

Problem is that it carries over to the offensive end, and he plays the game too fast or as you said it hasn’t slowed down for him.
Other problem is that in a few big games this season, where nothing is going for the team offensively and you’d hope for some of his kamikaze drives in an attempt to open things up, he’s just faded into the background and only attempted like 5 shots.

I’ve never seen it with OMax and I’ve been on record with that. I see more raw tools that I doubt will all come together to be an all BE type player than I see tools that will all mesh into the best player on the team.

Obviously I hope I’m wrong about that, and at this point I’d take something in between- a solid 3 year starter that’s consistently the best defender on the team and earns his role in the Leaky Black mold, with a bit more offensive firepower.
If that’s his ceiling Shaka needs to really get to work recruiting some more athletes in his mold.

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Re: Omax
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2022, 02:07:38 PM »
Yet Shaka seems most concerned about Joplin and normally calls him out to not playing to his potential. Shaka seems fine with Omax, yes has said he needs to play under control but has not asked him to totally slowdown. Wants to him to remain aggressive.
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tower912

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Re: Omax
« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2022, 02:57:50 PM »
Go back to the Buzz years.    What is happening with Joplin and OMax should be familiar.    Right now, Joplin is a one trick pony.    And he is not playing the rest of the game, defense, rebounding, sharing the ball, the way Shaka wants.     OMax is out of control sometimes, but is nearly always playing the game the way the coach wants.    Working hard on defense, being disruptive on the press, attacking on offense, sharing the ball, taking the appropriate shots.    Yup, he sometimes is going too fast on offense.    Yup, he needs to be more consistent rebounding and also producing against the big boys.   But he is doing the work.   
     So, to me, the question isn't so much about OMax.    The question is when will Joplin start playing a complete enough game to take the minutes away from OMax when O is sloppy?
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It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

DoctorV

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Re: Omax
« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2022, 03:03:42 PM »
Yet Shaka seems most concerned about Joplin and normally calls him out to not playing to his potential. Shaka seems fine with Omax, yes has said he needs to play under control but has not asked him to totally slowdown. Wants to him to remain aggressive.

Yep- OMax clearly has more overall value than Jop at this point.

It’s not about that though.
It about OMax having to be one of the go to guys for this to be a tourney squad.

Like Tyler, who has a skill that no one can match, he will get a lions share of the minutes at his position because of his defensive ability.
He will have to be a go to scorer, or at least a top 3/4 scorer with spurtability as the season progresses.
Same goes for TyKo- he won’t have to go off for 15 or 20- but he will need to make enough shots to keep opposing defenses honest, especially defenses that are well coached and know MUs tendencies, as many in the BE are.

Oso, Omax, and Tyler will be held to a different standard this season because of their importance to the team and the sheer minutes played.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 03:06:11 PM by DoctorV »

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Re: Omax
« Reply #74 on: November 27, 2022, 05:42:50 PM »
At the game last night, I focused on Omax the entire time he was on the court. One thing that stood out to be was ability to use both hands very effectively around the basket. I get why many on here are not fans, yet many were big Cain fans, and I think there is still a tremendous amount of upside to his game. I am still very confident that he is going to play a big part in any team success that happens this year.

Goose, I agree he is very important to this team. By his senior year, he will be a very, very good college player.

I don’t see the NBA hype, though that others have talked about.