Twitter 3.0

[JWags85]

Not saying he is a clueless whack job, but I do know a few people that met him/knew him and none characterized him as particularly smart. Where he excels is at networking, knowing smart people, and having a lot of money.

He also knows how the system works and can exploit it.

That seems like the biased viewpoints and revisionist history I was talking about.  I’m not one of those Musk zealot fanboys who think he’s Tony Stark mixed with God, but come on.  He was designing and selling video games before he was a teen.  Double major in physics and Econ from U Penn.  Worked at an early stage energy storage institute.  Was accepted into a engineering PHD program at Stanford.  I Founded and sold 2 companies for big money before PayPal.  His intelligence was well established before anyone knew who he was or he had a ton of money.

People fall all over themselves venerating Steve Jobs genius, but Musk who has far more technical expertise and skill in the fields he works in is just underwhelming.  But Jobs was so brilliant, but Musk is just a not particularly smart guy who lucked into money cause he’s good at networking? Gotcha

None of this means that his Twitter experiment won’t be a disaster and he might be making some huge tactical errors.  But very smart and successful people f up all the time, often due to hubris, especially in fields they aren’t experienced or savvy in

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I’ll admit this is going way worse than I expected from a PR perspective. The rubber meets the road when advertisers actually pull their spend and when functions wither due to personnel atrophy, but so far I look like a mope for predicting not much would change.

So I get the layoffs. But the “advertise with Twitter or else” stuff doesn’t seem to me to have much upside.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I work in a global media agency and my client is one of the largest automotive companies in the world. They just issued a global mandate to pause all campaigns on Twitter through end of 2022 due to concerns regarding brand safety and continuity in representation (ie. the twitter employees who service the business). These are real issues that are mostly ignored outside of the ad community. There will be more companies that do the same.

[forgetful]

That seems like the biased viewpoints and revisionist history I was talking about.  I’m not one of those Musk zealot fanboys who think he’s Tony Stark mixed with God, but come on.  He was designing and selling video games before he was a teen.  Double major in physics and Econ from U Penn.  Worked at an early stage energy storage institute.  Was accepted into a engineering PHD program at Stanford.  I Founded and sold 2 companies for big money before PayPal.  His intelligence was well established before anyone knew who he was or he had a ton of money.

People fall all over themselves venerating Steve Jobs genius, but Musk who has far more technical expertise and skill in the fields he works in is just underwhelming.  But Jobs was so brilliant, but Musk is just a not particularly smart guy who lucked into money cause he’s good at networking? Gotcha

None of this means that his Twitter experiment won’t be a disaster and he might be making some huge tactical errors.  But very smart and successful people f up all the time, often due to hubris, especially in fields they aren’t experienced or savvy in

To be fair, the people I know that met/knew him are legit geniuses, so maybe they are biased. But just reporting what they said. They weren't particularly impressed with him.

Or they thought he was an arrogant dick and held it against his intelligence.

I haven't met him yet, so can't make my own assessment.

[jficke13]

So I get the layoffs. But the “advertise with Twitter or else” stuff doesn’t seem to me to have much upside.

Twitter's outside counsel is gotta be popping champ. Dude has speed run Twitter into being a defendant in at least one class action because he couldn't be bothered to comply with CA mass layoff law (or, more likely, wanted to crapcan everyone before their annual stock-comp vested). I'm jealous as hell of their receivables even if it is a last hurrah, because those lawyers are gonna get *paid*.

[lawdog77]

Twitter's outside counsel is gotta be popping champ. Dude has speed run Twitter into being a defendant in at least one class action because he couldn't be bothered to comply with CA mass layoff law (or, more likely, wanted to crapcan everyone before their annual stock-comp vested). I'm jealous as hell of their receivables even if it is a last hurrah, because those lawyers are gonna get *paid*.

It's the federal WARN Act he's allegedly violating.  Apparently, those employees in the suit are getting paid with full benefits until February, but want to stay working there for 60 days?

[reinko]

Interesting view, that Twitter sold nearly 0 2023 revenue, not because of woke corporations, but they dared to ask some very basic questions, and got zero answers.

https://twitter.com/goangelo/status/1588696157794242560?s=46&t=VRgv2vACP61uuykjuigv8A

[Pakuni]

It's the federal WARN Act he's allegedly violating.  Apparently, those employees in the suit are getting paid with full benefits until February, but want to stay working there for 60 days?

California has its own version of the WARN Act, and I believe the employees are suing under both that and the federal law.
And I imagine they're less interested in the 60 days than the opportunity to stick it to Musk for what may be a clear violation of their rights.

[MU82]

Yahoo Finance's Andy Serwer had a long take on Musk, which he nicely captured in this paragraph:

First, as Microsoft’s Brad Smith told me: “Elon Musk is undeniably one of the greatest technology visionaries of our generation.” Second: Running a social media company — and turning it into a super app — may or may not be outside Elon’s area of expertise. Third: Twitter now has $13 billion of debt on its books, making it highly leveraged, which will certainly affect Musk’s decisionmaking. Fourth: Even though Twitter has 238 million DAUs, Yahoo Finance’s Dan Howley points out it is getting long in the tooth as upstarts like TikTok, BeReal and Discord take market share and attract younger audiences. Fifth: We don’t know the degree to which Musk has an actual plan. Sixth: No doubt Twitter detracts from Musk running SpaceX and Tesla etc. Seventh: Many have doubted him before, and he has delivered. Sometimes. Which really has no bearing on Twitter.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Interesting view, that Twitter sold nearly 0 2023 revenue, not because of woke corporations, but they dared to ask some very basic questions, and got zero answers.

https://twitter.com/goangelo/status/1588696157794242560?s=46&t=VRgv2vACP61uuykjuigv8A

There is no doubt Twitter needs shake-ups, including paring the staff as one cost cutting measure. I assumed their lethargy was a result of Dorsey more or less ignoring it in favor of Square/Block, but then the new CEO came in and did nothing of note whatsoever. They haven't been particularly innovative, and they failed to monetize their outsized influence. So Elon was right when he took a 9% position and said changes should be made.

But being the world's richest emmotionally-12-year-old boy and discovering that no rules apply to him isn't working in his favor. It led him to make a stupid offer (gotta get that 420 in there!) AND lock himself into an ironclad deal. Once forced to consummate the deal, he continued to signal that he would make Twitter a more toxic space and drive off scads of advertisers. Stupid business decision as Elon becomes a caricature of himself. The linked thread aptly using the word "antagonize", which I think perfectly captures Musk's MO over the last couple of years--because apparently no one in his inner circle tells him no.

There is still time, I think, to reinvigorate Twitter, but I am not sure Elon smashing a Tesla through it as 100mph is the way to achieve it.

[Uncle Rico]

There is no doubt Twitter needs shake-ups, including paring the staff as one cost cutting measure. I assumed their lethargy was a result of Dorsey more or less ignoring it in favor of Square/Block, but then the new CEO came in and did nothing of note whatsoever. They haven't been particularly innovative, and they failed to monetize their outsized influence. So Elon was right when he took a 9% position and said changes should be made.

But being the world's richest emmotionally-12-year-old boy and discovering that no rules apply to him isn't working in his favor. It led him to make a stupid offer (gotta get that 420 in there!) AND lock himself into an ironclad deal. Once forced to consummate the deal, he continued to signal that he would make Twitter a more toxic space and drive off scads of advertisers. Stupid business decision as Elon becomes a caricature of himself. The linked thread aptly using the word "antagonize", which I think perfectly captures Musk's MO over the last couple of years--because apparently no one in his inner circle tells him no.

There is still time, I think, to reinvigorate Twitter, but I am not sure Elon smashing a Tesla through it as 100mph is the way to achieve it.

At least we’ll get to see a lot of angry middle-aged white guys unironically tweet “go woke, go broke”

[lawdog77]

California has its own version of the WARN Act, and I believe the employees are suing under both that and the federal law.
And I imagine they're less interested in the 60 days than the opportunity to stick it to Musk for what may be a clear violation of their rights.

Do you actually think a judge is going to force Twitter to allow these employees to go back and touch the code? Thats a recipe for disaster. If hes paying them completely, with all of their benefits,  what are their damages?

[Pakuni]

Do you actually think a judge is going to force Twitter to allow these employees to go back and touch the code? Thats a recipe for disaster. If hes paying them completely, with all of their benefits,  what are their damages?

No, nor is that what the plaintiffs are seeking. Maybe take the time to read what the complaint says.

[lawdog77]

No, nor is that what the plaintiffs are seeking. Maybe take the time to read what the complaint says.

I have not seen the complaint, but every news organization I have read state:
The lawsuit seeks a declaration from the court and an injunction prohibiting Twitter from “conducting mass layoffs without providing the required notice”
And
considering Musk is stating he is giving these laid off employees 3 months severance and full benefits, sounds frivolous. The attorney is trying to stop Twitter from soliciting these people from signing docs giving up their right to sue? OK.

[jficke13]

I have not seen the complaint, but every news organization I have read state:
The lawsuit seeks a declaration from the court and an injunction prohibiting Twitter from “conducting mass layoffs without providing the required notice”
And
considering Musk is stating he is giving these laid off employees 3 months severance and full benefits, sounds frivolous. The attorney is trying to stop Twitter from soliciting these people from signing docs giving up their right to sue? OK.

What kind of law do you practice?

[Uncle Rico]

What kind of law do you practice?

I practice bird law

[Golden Avalanche]

Not saying he is a clueless whack job, but I do know a few people that met him/knew him and none characterized him as particularly smart. Where he excels is at networking, knowing smart people, and having a lot of money.

He also knows how the system works and can exploit it.

Add in that every venture he's ever had was reliant on other people having the biggest wallet.

Remains to be seen if the Saudi's swoop in to save this disaster. Given their investment in trump it would seem likely they do so.

[lawdog77]

Twitter's outside counsel is gotta be popping champ. Dude has speed run Twitter into being a defendant in at least one class action because he couldn't be bothered to comply with CA mass layoff law (or, more likely, wanted to crapcan everyone before their annual stock-comp vested). I'm jealous as hell of their receivables even if it is a last hurrah, because those lawyers are gonna get *paid*.

Here's more details. Somehow I think Musk has attorneys who know what they are doing.
https://www.businessinsider.com/read-blunt-email-telling-twitter-staff-jobs-axed-layoffs-2022-11

[Pakuni]

I have not seen the complaint, but every news organization I have read state:
The lawsuit seeks a declaration from the court and an injunction prohibiting Twitter from “conducting mass layoffs without providing the required notice”
And
considering Musk is stating he is giving these laid off employees 3 months severance and full benefits, sounds frivolous. The attorney is trying to stop Twitter from soliciting these people from signing docs giving up their right to sue? OK.

OK,. so now we agree that the employees aren't demanding to be rehired for 60 days?
Cool.

Anyhow, to answer your question:

“Plaintiffs file this action seeking to ensure that Twitter comply with the law and provide the requisite notice or severance payment in connection with the anticipated layoffs,” the complaint states.
The lawsuit asks the court to issue an order requiring Twitter to obey the WARN Act. It also seeks to prevent Twitter from soliciting employees to sign documents that could give up their right to participate in litigation.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/04/twitter-sued-by-employees-after-mass-layoffs-begin.html

In the new complaint against Twitter, the plaintiffs are asking the court to declare that Twitter has violated the federal and California WARN Acts and certify the case as a class action suit. Similar to the Tesla layoff lawsuit, lawyers are also asking the court to prohibit Twitter from forcing laid-off employees to sign documents that would release their claims without informing them of this lawsuit. The lawsuit is seeking a range of relief, including compensatory damages (including wages owed), as well as declaratory relief, pre- and post-judgment interest, plus other attorneys’ fees and costs.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/04/twitter-faces-a-class-action-lawsuit-over-mass-employee-layoffs-with-proper-legal-notice/

[lawdog77]

OK,. so now we agree that the employees aren't demanding to be rehired for 60 days?
Cool.

Anyhow, to answer your question:

“Plaintiffs file this action seeking to ensure that Twitter comply with the law and provide the requisite notice or severance payment in connection with the anticipated layoffs,” the complaint states.
The lawsuit asks the court to issue an order requiring Twitter to obey the WARN Act. It also seeks to prevent Twitter from soliciting employees to sign documents that could give up their right to participate in litigation.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/04/twitter-sued-by-employees-after-mass-layoffs-begin.html

In the new complaint against Twitter, the plaintiffs are asking the court to declare that Twitter has violated the federal and California WARN Acts and certify the case as a class action suit. Similar to the Tesla layoff lawsuit, lawyers are also asking the court to prohibit Twitter from forcing laid-off employees to sign documents that would release their claims without informing them of this lawsuit. The lawsuit is seeking a range of relief, including compensatory damages (including wages owed), as well as declaratory relief, pre- and post-judgment interest, plus other attorneys’ fees and costs.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/04/twitter-faces-a-class-action-lawsuit-over-mass-employee-layoffs-with-proper-legal-notice/

Its actually a lawsuit that is premature and frivolous.

[Pakuni]

Its actually a lawsuit that is premature and frivolous.

Definitely not premature, given the remedies sought.
I'll let the court decide if it's frivolous.

[Pakuni]

Pretty good read:

https://davekarpf.substack.com/p/elons-twitter-tilt?utm_campaign=auto_share

[lawdog77]

Definitely not premature, given the remedies sought.
I'll let the court decide if it's frivolous.

We will agree to disagree on whether or not its premature. Speaking from a class action lawyer's perspective, you generally dont file a class action until there's damages. At the time of filing you have one plaintiff who claims he was laid off without notice. Everything else coming out is showing Twitter is following each juridictions labor laws

[jficke13]

We will agree to disagree on whether or not its premature. Speaking from a class action lawyer's perspective, you generally dont file a class action until there's damages. At the time of filing you have one plaintiff who claims he was laid off without notice. Everything else coming out is showing Twitter is following each juridictions labor laws

So you do class action litigation? Employment law?

[JWags85]

To be fair, the people I know that met/knew him are legit geniuses, so maybe they are biased. But just reporting what they said. They weren't particularly impressed with him.

Or they thought he was an arrogant dick and held it against his intelligence.

I haven't met him yet, so can't make my own assessment.

That’s totally fair.  He’s abrasive at best, I can absolutely see that being an issue with how people perceive him.  I’ve worked with some people who were very smart with impressive credentials who were self important tools…and that surely didn’t aide me in thinking highly of their intelligence and credentials

Add in that every venture he's ever had was reliant on other people having the biggest wallet.

So like nearly every other Silicon Valley entrepreneur?