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Author Topic: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain  (Read 1156 times)

NCMUFan

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Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« on: September 02, 2022, 09:57:24 AM »
Shaka did a great job keeping Greg, Osa and Justin here last year.
All significantly strengthened the team.
If Jamal Cain was here last year, anyone care to speculate if Ws and Ls would have been different?

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2022, 10:13:05 AM »
None. Justin more than delivered as Cain’s replacement. I believe we missed more with Carton than either Cain or Garcia.

I think the combo of OMax/Elliott was able to replace Garcia (especially with how DG’s year unfolded). And, DG would have held Lewis back and was not a fit for Shaka’s systems.

wadesworld

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2022, 10:25:43 AM »
None. Justin more than delivered as Cain’s replacement. I believe we missed more with Carton than either Cain or Garcia.

I think the combo of OMax/Elliott was able to replace Garcia (especially with how DG’s year unfolded). And, DG would have held Lewis back and was not a fit for Shaka’s systems.

Probably not a ton, but I think his rebounding definitely would've helped and his catch and shoot three point shooting would've helped as well.  I would've been interested to see if OMax could've guarded the 2 (I think the answer is yes), and if you could've run out a lineup of Morsell, OMax, Cain, Lewis, and Kur/Oso.  That's a lot of length and ability to play the passing lanes, and the rebounding would've been much better.  Obviously I don't think you can play that lineup 20 minutes/game, but I think Cain would've given more lineup flexibility.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2022, 12:03:04 PM »
Shaka did a great job keeping Greg, Osa and Justin here last year.
All significantly strengthened the team.
If Jamal Cain was here last year, anyone care to speculate if Ws and Ls would have been different?

Maybe.  Maybe not
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Markusquette

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2022, 01:06:07 PM »
It wouldn't have hurt to have him.

MU82

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2022, 01:28:08 PM »
Cain would have helped in some areas, most notably rebounding. When engaged, he also was an active and willing defender.

But he shot 30% from 3, so we would have had just another bad distance shooter on the floor, and he turned the ball over quite a bit.

Like Markusquette said, it wouldn't have hurt to have him, but I don't think he'd have advanced us much if at all on the seed line.
There were 681 attempts to ban or restrict access to a record 1,651 different books in schools through August of this year. What books? Mainly those written by or about people of color or that deal with LGBTQ issues.

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PGsHeroes32

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2022, 02:30:35 PM »
Cain would have helped in some areas, most notably rebounding. When engaged, he also was an active and willing defender.

But he shot 30% from 3, so we would have had just another bad distance shooter on the floor, and he turned the ball over quite a bit.

Like Markusquette said, it wouldn't have hurt to have him, but I don't think he'd have advanced us much if at all on the seed line.

He wasn't taking catch and shoot 3s last year
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

Herman Cain

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2022, 02:58:25 PM »
My guess is Jamal would have earned one  Stud of The Game last season. So mostly like a net positive.

That said it was better for Jamal to go to a program where he played Max minutes and was the focal point. Helped him build his skills. Was signed by The Heat to an Exhibit 10 Contract and will be in The Heat training camp.  So  it worked out well for Jamal.

We also had more minutes for O-MAX.  At the end of the season in the most important game, which we lost to UNC, O- MAX was our best player.  Now we have O-MAX ready to take a leadership role. So it worked out well for O-MAX
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MU82

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2022, 03:02:37 PM »
He wasn't taking catch and shoot 3s last year

I didn't know what kind of 3s he was taking last season, so thanks for that info.

He shot 34% his last year at MU taking primarily catch-and-shoot 3s (IIRC). Earlier in his career, he had better numbers and worse numbers but his volume was probably too low to extrapolate much of anything.

I agree with those who think he'd have been a net positive last season, but I do wonder if his presence would have kept O-Max from developing the second half of the season.

We'll never know!
There were 681 attempts to ban or restrict access to a record 1,651 different books in schools through August of this year. What books? Mainly those written by or about people of color or that deal with LGBTQ issues.

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brewcity77

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2022, 09:34:07 AM »
It's hard to say. I imagine Cain would've paired with Lewis and formed more of a rotation with him and O-Max, but it may have delayed O-Max's development, particularly as Shaka had no real choice but to keep playing Prosper even after an ugly start. If Cain is here, does he maybe cement that role in the first 6-8 games when O-Max was shaky. Who knows if O-Max ever seizes the 25 mpg role he had with Cain here, more likely he would've been a backup to both Cain and Lewis.

As Doc Blackheart said, the real loss for this team was Carton. He was a perfect fit for both the system and the type of guards DeAndre Haynes has developed in the past. It would've allowed Kolek to be off the ball more, getting more catch and shoot opportunities, while giving us a second creator which was sorely needed in the back half of the season when teams figured out Kolek's role in the offense.

Had Cain stayed, maybe we win a couple extra games, bump up our seed a line or two, but might not be as seasoned for this upcoming year. Had Carton stayed, I think we finish first or second in the league, get a top-5 seed, and have a significantly more favorable road come March. But what's done is done, and I'm excited for the experience our core (Kolek, Oso, O-Max) have coming into this year.
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Uncle Rico

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2022, 09:48:27 AM »
It's hard to say. I imagine Cain would've paired with Lewis and formed more of a rotation with him and O-Max, but it may have delayed O-Max's development, particularly as Shaka had no real choice but to keep playing Prosper even after an ugly start. If Cain is here, does he maybe cement that role in the first 6-8 games when O-Max was shaky. Who knows if O-Max ever seizes the 25 mpg role he had with Cain here, more likely he would've been a backup to both Cain and Lewis.

As Doc Blackheart said, the real loss for this team was Carton. He was a perfect fit for both the system and the type of guards DeAndre Haynes has developed in the past. It would've allowed Kolek to be off the ball more, getting more catch and shoot opportunities, while giving us a second creator which was sorely needed in the back half of the season when teams figured out Kolek's role in the offense.

Had Cain stayed, maybe we win a couple extra games, bump up our seed a line or two, but might not be as seasoned for this upcoming year. Had Carton stayed, I think we finish first or second in the league, get a top-5 seed, and have a significantly more favorable road come March. But what's done is done, and I'm excited for the experience our core (Kolek, Oso, O-Max) have coming into this year.

Yup, yup.  All of that said, I think Shaka probably knew early on DJ Carton wasn’t coming back.  It is laughable some didn’t think he was a loss, though.  In the end, it’s just conjecture and the program moved on and forward
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

MU82

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2022, 10:06:05 AM »
DJ obviously wasn't a loss because ... Wojo.

Same reason Lewis had to go.

As soon as we get rid of Oso, Kam and Stevie, we'll be better off.
There were 681 attempts to ban or restrict access to a record 1,651 different books in schools through August of this year. What books? Mainly those written by or about people of color or that deal with LGBTQ issues.

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Newsdreams

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Re: Hypothetical question - Jamal Cain
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2022, 11:53:32 PM »
DJ obviously wasn't a loss because ... Wojo.

Same reason Lewis had to go.

As soon as we get rid of Oso, Kam and Stevie, we'll be better off.
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