2024 College Football Thread

[Jockey]

Agree with both of these points.  This is also the interesting “risk” IMO with Fickell.  He’s a very good coach and smart enough to know the “Wisconsin Way” and roster mentality is outdated and not working.  But his rep was always as a great defensive mind, not an ace recruiter.

Add to that, the vast majority of his career as an assistant was at OSU, where you picked and chose stud recruits.  Then he went to Cincinnati and assembled rosters made up largely of local Ohio kids, where he had 30 years of experience living, playing, and coaching in the state.

At Wisconsin, he’ll have neither of those.  I don’t think it will be easy or likely to just go back to Ohio and poach kids there from OSU, UM, MSU, not to mention a soon to be Big12 UC.  So he’ll have to create something new.  The recruiting hires need to be home runs, cause he won’t inherit a roster suited to him

I don’t think Fickell - as picky as he has been - would have taken the job without some promises.

He will want facility upgrades and he will want a huge infusion of cash both to hire and keep good coaches and for recruiting.

The last year I could find stats for recruiting budgets was 2019. UW was 13th of the 14 teams in the B10 in budgeting for recruiting. Only Northwestern spent less. That will change.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

People were saying similar thinks about Nick Saban and Brian Kelly when they moved south. Good coaches have skill that go beyond their geographic area. And this isn't like Brian Harsin moving from Boise to Auburn - this is a guy moving further north in the midwest. To a program that has recruited plenty of Ohio student athletes.

[Uncle Rico]

I don’t think Fickell - as picky as he has been - would have taken the job without some promises.

He will want facility upgrades and he will want a huge infusion of cash both to hire and keep good coaches and for recruiting.

The last year I could find stats for recruiting budgets was 2019. UW was 13th of the 14 teams in the B10 in budgeting for recruiting. Only Northwestern spent less. That will change.

We’ll see.

[MUfan12]

Been very interesting to hear the Madison media today tripping over themselves to elevate Leonhard's accomplishments as the interim HC.

The other thing is how much they're crying poor in terms of UW's spending. Granted, I don't follow their athletic department much at all outside of rooting against them in hoops. But that's stunning to me, especially in light of the B1Gs TV deals.

[Uncle Rico]

Been very interesting to hear the Madison media today tripping over themselves to elevate Leonhard's accomplishments as the interim HC.

The other thing is how much they're crying poor in terms of UW's spending. Granted, I don't follow their athletic department much at all outside of rooting against them in hoops. But that's stunning to me, especially in light of the B1Gs TV deals.

I’m at the point where I say it’s 50/50 this hire splits the program from the loyalist old guard and the Shopko Badger fanbase and younger folks.

McIntosh quells all of this by simply granting an interview with any journalist and telling them they will explore all options at the conclusion of the season after the Chryst hire and that Leonhard would be considered.

There’s been a lot of celebrating him but let’s see how this plays out.  They don’t spend nearly as much as other Big Ten schools.  Maybe that changes now but it’s obvious Fickell doesn’t have much support in the old media and with a small percentage of a vocal group of alum and fans

[Pakuni]

Auburn is really pulling the trigger on Hugh Freeze.

[JWags85]

People were saying similar thinks about Nick Saban and Brian Kelly when they moved south. Good coaches have skill that go beyond their geographic area. And this isn't like Brian Harsin moving from Boise to Auburn - this is a guy moving further north in the midwest. To a program that has recruited plenty of Ohio student athletes.

Saban had coached at 7 schools and 2 NFL teams in 7 states before he moved to LSU.  Brian Kelly (though the jury is still out) coached one of the most national facing college programs before LSU.
Fickell has not left Ohio for any role or job, other than a year with the Saints, in his life.  The lions share with OSU, which is an animal in and of itself.

Even Harsin had far more varied experience in the Southeast (at Texas and Ark St) than Fickell has outside of Ohio.

I think very highly of Fickell.  I think this is a home run hire for Wisconsin based on what their options were, but that doesn't mean that its not a valid concern or issue.  He certainly has the skill, but he has to not only break a system and mentality around Wisconsin football that has existed for 25+ years, but also completely change all that he's done with recruiting.

FWIW, Wisconsin currently has 5 on the roster from Ohio.  4 years ago there were 7.  3 of those players overlap.  Its not like there is a pipeline there.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Auburn is really pulling the trigger on Hugh Freeze.

This was great.

https://www.collegeandmagnolia.com/2022/11/28/23481893/do-not-hire-hugh-freeze

[Pakuni]

Saban had coached at 7 schools and 2 NFL teams in 7 states before he moved to LSU.  Brian Kelly (though the jury is still out) coached one of the most national facing college programs before LSU.
Fickell has not left Ohio for any role or job, other than a year with the Saints, in his life.  The lions share with OSU, which is an animal in and of itself.

Even Harsin had far more varied experience in the Southeast (at Texas and Ark St) than Fickell has outside of Ohio.

I think very highly of Fickell.  I think this is a home run hire for Wisconsin based on what their options were, but that doesn't mean that its not a valid concern or issue.  He certainly has the skill, but he has to not only break a system and mentality around Wisconsin football that has existed for 25+ years, but also completely change all that he's done with recruiting.

It may be a talking point, but I think there's enough evidence out there- even excluding Saban and Kelly - that it's far from prohibitive for success.
Urban Meyer had spent his entire career in the Midwest, plus two years in Utah, before taking over at Florida.
Dennis Erickson was exclusively a West Coast guy before getting the Miami job.
The closest Jimmy Johnson was to the southeast before taking over at Miami was Arkansas.
Mack Brown never coached in Texas before landing the UT job.

Are there some notable cases in which a coach failed because of his lack of local connections? I don't think you can count Harsin. His failures went far beyond local recruiting. In fact, his class this year was fairly respectable.

[Jockey]

I’m at the point where I say it’s 50/50 this hire splits the program from the loyalist old guard and the Shopko Badger fanbase and younger folks.

McIntosh quells all of this by simply granting an interview with any journalist and telling them they will explore all options at the conclusion of the season after the Chryst hire and that Leonhard would be considered.

There’s been a lot of celebrating him but let’s see how this plays out.  They don’t spend nearly as much as other Big Ten schools.  Maybe that changes now but it’s obvious Fickell doesn’t have much support in the old media and with a small percentage of a vocal group of alum and fans

I think the biggest problem with UW fans is that they aren’t too bright. Most of them fully supported Chryst even as he was bringing the program down. I also don’t think this happens without Barry’s blessing and that will help assuage any I’ll will toward Fickell.

Once they actually learn who and what Fickell is, their attitude will probably change.

[JWags85]

It may be a talking point, but I think there's enough evidence out there- even excluding Saban and Kelly - that it's far from prohibitive for success.
Urban Meyer had spent his entire career in the Midwest, plus two years in Utah, before taking over at Florida.
Dennis Erickson was exclusively a West Coast guy before getting the Miami job.
The closest Jimmy Johnson was to the southeast before taking over at Miami was Arkansas.
Mack Brown never coached in Texas before landing the UT job.

Are there some notable cases in which a coach failed because of his lack of local connections? I don't think you can count Harsin. His failures went far beyond local recruiting. In fact, his class this year was fairly respectable.

Sure, but again, you're talking about regions versus a single state.  And bringing up coaches who were all veterans of at least half a dozen other programs in different conferences and states.  Mack Brown never coached IN Texas, but he had stints at 2 different programs right next door in LA and at their arch rival.

FWIW, I think Fickell is going to be quite successful, provided he doesn't head back to Columbus in a couple years.  But if he does, it won't be due to shuttling a bunch of recruits down I-90/I-70 and then heading north.

[Uncle Rico]

It may be a talking point, but I think there's enough evidence out there- even excluding Saban and Kelly - that it's far from prohibitive for success.
Urban Meyer had spent his entire career in the Midwest, plus two years in Utah, before taking over at Florida.
Dennis Erickson was exclusively a West Coast guy before getting the Miami job.
The closest Jimmy Johnson was to the southeast before taking over at Miami was Arkansas.
Mack Brown never coached in Texas before landing the UT job.

Are there some notable cases in which a coach failed because of his lack of local connections? I don't think you can count Harsin. His failures went far beyond local recruiting. In fact, his class this year was fairly respectable.

Matt Rhule at Baylor is another example.  He went and took the job and hired local high school coaches to his staff and developed relationships across the state.  I think that’s a missed reason as to why he might succeed at Nebraska, those relationships he built while in Texas and the fact one of the guys he hired is coaching Tech now.

Even though Mack Brown hadn’t coached in Texas, he had bounced around enough in the SE that he had a lot of experience outside North Carolina.  He was also the OC at Oklahoma in ‘84.

Looking at the ‘84 Sooner results, they went 1-0-1 against teams ranked number one in the nation, winning at Nebraska and tieing Texas and beat #3 Oklahoma State.  They lost at 5-6 Kansas.  Finished the year losing the Orange Bowl to Washington where a win may have vaulted them to number 1 over BYU.  What a wild season

[Uncle Rico]

I think the biggest problem with UW fans is that they aren’t too bright. Most of them fully supported Chryst even as he was bringing the program down. I also don’t think this happens without Barry’s blessing and that will help assuage any I’ll will toward Fickell.

Once they actually learn who and what Fickell is, their attitude will probably change.

We’ll see.  College fans are often leery of outsiders, especially one that’s been force fed Barry Alvarez BS for three decades.

Wisconsin is a new creature for Fickell.  The stuff that flew for Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer won’t fly in Madison. 

[Jockey]

We’ll see.  College fans are often leery of outsiders, especially one that’s been force fed Barry Alvarez BS for three decades.

Wisconsin is a new creature for Fickell.  The stuff that flew for Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer won’t fly in Madison.

Either way, it will be fun to watch.

[Uncle Rico]

Either way, it will be fun to watch.

Listen, I’ve been asking the ones I know today that are the Wisconsin Way drummers what it’s like having to support a dude who learned from Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer and played at a school you say you despise because they cheat so bad and it’s been fun

[MUBurrow]

I have a hard time believing that Kiffin will see a lot of value shifting from Ole Miss to Auburn.  Its not that much better a gig, and Auburn fans/athletic department are certifiably insane.  Maybe I'm colored by the brief convo directly higher in this thread that he'll slide into the Bama job before too long. 

This has Hugh Freeze written all over it to me.

You guys, I got one!!!

[tower912]

Listen, I’ve been asking the ones I know today that are the Wisconsin Way drummers what it’s like having to support a dude who learned from Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer and played at a school you say you despise because they cheat so bad and it’s been fun

So, you don't differentiate.  You love yanking everybody's chain.   It isn't just a scoop thing.

[Uncle Rico]

So, you don't differentiate.  You love yanking everybody's chain.   It isn't just a scoop thing.

It’s possible that is true.

[tower912]

Bravo. 

[Pakuni]

ESPN's Chris Low with the worst tweet of the day.

@ClowESPN
There will be a lot of talk about Hugh Freeze’s missteps at Ole Miss, but everyone has a past. He’s coached in the SEC, recruited in the SEC and won in the SEC. He’s also beaten Nick Saban in back-to-back seasons. In other words, he checks a lot of boxes for @AuburnFootball.

Chris, not everyone has a past that includes harassing a sexual assault victim, arranging meetups with hookers on your school-issued phone, inappropriate behavior toward high school girls and had 33 wins vacated because of NCAA violations.

[WhiteTrash]

We’ll see.  College fans are often leery of outsiders, especially one that’s been force fed Barry Alvarez BS for three decades.

Wisconsin is a new creature for Fickell.  The stuff that flew for Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer won’t fly in Madison.

For the benefit of someone with not much knowledge of UW, why do you say that? It's not like UW has been or has the reputation of being a clean program or actually having  academic standards above the NCAA minimum; all thing we associate with OSU. What will not "fly" at UW that does at OSU?

UW is generally known as a football factory like OSU, Bama, Miami, etc. I don't think that is bad and it is working for them.

[Uncle Rico]

For the benefit of someone with not much knowledge of UW, why do you say that? It's not like UW has been or has the reputation of being a clean program or actually having  academic standards above the NCAA minimum; all thing we associate with OSU. What will not "fly" at UW that does at OSU?

UW is generally known as a football factory like OSU, Bama, Miami, etc. I don't think that is bad and it is working for them.

Ohio State is a real football factory.  Wisconsin isn’t in the same stratosphere as Ohio State.  Wisconsin isn’t taking borderline kids and the admissions side is not in line with the athletics side.  It’s why Gary Andersen bolted.

While the notion Wisconsin isn’t as clean as they like to think is true. they do at least try and make academics and athletics work together.  Ohio State is a true minor league and athletics run roughshod over the rest of the university

[WhiteTrash]

Ohio State is a real football factory.  Wisconsin isn’t in the same stratosphere as Ohio State.  Wisconsin isn’t taking borderline kids and the admissions side is not in line with the athletics side.  It’s why Gary Andersen bolted.

While the notion Wisconsin isn’t as clean as they like to think is true. they do at least try and make academics and athletics work together.  Ohio State is a true minor league and athletics run roughshod over the rest of the university

Fair enough. You're right, OSU is a sports business with a college attached to it. Thanks for the response.

[MuggsyB]

ESPN's Chris Low with the worst tweet of the day.

@ClowESPN
There will be a lot of talk about Hugh Freeze’s missteps at Ole Miss, but everyone has a past. He’s coached in the SEC, recruited in the SEC and won in the SEC. He’s also beaten Nick Saban in back-to-back seasons. In other words, he checks a lot of boxes for @AuburnFootball.

Chris, not everyone has a past that includes harassing a sexual assault victim, arranging meetups with hookers on your school-issued phone, inappropriate behavior toward high school girls and had 33 wins vacated because of NCAA violations.

Whoops.  Ty Pakumi. 

[Billy Hoyle]

I think the biggest problem with UW fans is that they aren’t too bright. Most of them fully supported Chryst even as he was bringing the program down. I also don’t think this happens without Barry’s blessing and that will help assuage any I’ll will toward Fickell.

Once they actually learn who and what Fickell is, their attitude will probably change.

A old colleague who was recently on the UW Board of Regents said to me  today “McIntosh doesn’t get up to take a piss without asking Barry.”  Barry may be gone but he isn’t gone. McIntosh wouldn’t have gotten the job if he was going to do things his own way.