Buffalo shooting, take 2

[jficke13]

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on Today at 06:25:24 AM
Look guys, Chicago isn't the cesspool you have been lead to believe.  It's 10th.  So this trope that Chicago is some sort of daily massacre situation is an objective fallacy and a narrative pushed by a lot of people around here.  In 2021, it wasn't even in the top 20, and in 2022 it was 10th.

Additionally, let's stop the lie that it is only cities with Democrat mayors and governors.

So long as people allow the response of "but what Chicago has gun violence too" to derail a discussion and leap to defend Chicago/point out the whataboutism's irrelevance, then the tactic of citing something other than mass shootings in schools has been successful.

[Jockey]

I'm hoping things finally start moving but not optimistic. Based on the chart showing what the public actually wants, I'm not sure what it takes for the politicians to do something. Other than the NRA changing course.

Nothing will be done. War weapons will continue to be more and more prevalent.

That's what big money wants and that is what the people in this country want - especially the pro-forced birthers.

And thus, I say f*** you to every republican on this board.

[Pakuni]

Well, when people tend to minimize the sheer number of murders, not to mention how many shootings there were (how many shootings were there in 2021? Those injured by gun violence would like to be considered, I am sure), I am sure that's driven politically as well. It is Objectively bad, 2 murders a day in 2021. I don't care about the rate, and the victims families dont either. I am not blaming the violence in Chicago on Chicago laws, or police enforcement. It's a national problem. Those who want to defend Chicago's murder rate aren't helping the problem

Edit for googling: 508 shootings in Chicago Jan -March 2022. Down from 2021 time period, but up from 2019, and 2020.

This is one heck of a straw man.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

NYC has pretty strict gun laws, but I guess they don't apply to juveniles. Pass all the gun control laws you want. If Prosecutors are not going to enforce them what is the point.

https://www.complex.com/music/charges-dropped-against-16-year-old-bronx-rapper-c-blu

Which the USSC is preparing to weaken
https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2022/05/14/new-york-officials-prepare-for-worst-as-supreme-court-gun-ruling-looms

[lawdog77]

This is one heck of a straw man.

Not sure what strawman you are talking about. The issue was the gun violence in Chicago. Included shootings, and not just murders.

[jficke13]

Not sure what strawman you are talking about. The issue was the gun violence in Chicago. Included shootings, and not just murders.

Was it?

Anyway, congrats on the misdirection.

[Spotcheck Billy]

NYC has pretty strict gun laws, but I guess they don't apply to juveniles. Pass all the gun control laws you want. If Prosecutors are not going to enforce them what is the point.

https://www.complex.com/music/charges-dropped-against-16-year-old-bronx-rapper-c-blu

Congratulations, you found 1 exception so let's continue to do nothing.

[lawdog77]

Was it?

Anyway, congrats on the misdirection.

yes, it was. was responding to Hards

[MuggsyB]

"Maybe mentally ill 18-year-olds shouldn't have easy access to AR-15s."
"But what about Chicago?"

"It sure would be nice if elementary school kids could be sent to school without their parents having to worry about them being murdered in their classroom."
"But there was a shooting last night in Chicago!"

"It's awful that 10 people were killed while grocery shopping because a radicalized teenager was taught to hate Black people."
"Yeah, but Black people get shot every day in Chicago!"

Nobody here disagrees that Chicago has a gun violence problem, and that more can and should be done about it. But it's objectively not nearly as bad as some here - and in certain corners of the media - would have you believe.

But more than that, the people who incessantly bring up Chicago violence don't really care about Chicago violence, beyond its utility as a dog whistle and a distraction. When I've specifically asked what policies should be enacted or changed, they either misstate reality ("They should reinstate cash bail" ... uh, cash bail still exists in Chicago) or it's crickets.

So yeah, gun violence is a significant problem in Chicago. And the people who talk about it most here don't care.

So, let me get this straight.  You care about Chicago and inner city violence but some people that have brought it up here do not?  Is your point that people are only mentioning this to distract from what happened in the Texas elementary school and Buffalo? 

We have a significant problem Pakumi.  As horrible as these last two events have been, and people like Steve Kerr and Pop shouting from the rooftops, the fact is homicides in Chicago and other places dwarf the number of those killed in school shootings and mass murders.  Why shouldn't this be discussed as well?  Aren't you just as upset when a 7 yr old kid is shot at McDonald's two blocks from her home?  Or a 6yr old girl is murdered doing homework in her bedroom?

And no, this isn't coveted by the media with anywhere near the level or passion as horrific mass murders which happen way, way, way, less frequently .  Is Steve Kerr  pounding on the table and breaking down over  horrific incidents that happen most every weekend?   Shouldn't we as a society not be "numb" to all of these murders?  And no, you, and all of the echo chamber here don't care more than anyone else or those sharing a different viewpoint.   I'm equally upset and horrified if a little girl is shot in Chicago,  or people are mowed down at a Wakesha parade, or a grocery store, or at their elementary school as I assume everyone here is as well.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on Today at 06:25:24 AM
Look guys, Chicago isn't the cesspool you have been lead to believe.  It's 10th.  So this trope that Chicago is some sort of daily massacre situation is an objective fallacy and a narrative pushed by a lot of people around here.  In 2021, it wasn't even in the top 20, and in 2022 it was 10th.

Additionally, let's stop the lie that it is only cities with Democrat mayors and governors.

Yeah, that's not "defending a murder rate."  Nice try.

[rocky_warrior]

Whew - I appreciate that *some* parts of this are a good conversation.  And I'm happy that you're all passionate about it.

But really, lots of stupid political stuff here.  Perhaps we need to ban politics, and shooting conversations...