Inbound line violation question

[THEbig0]

Can't find a decent answer on the internet so turning to scoop knowledgables. Is that out of bounds line really out from both sides? I thought Greg's foot would have to be inbounds, not just on the line that makes the start of the out of bounds? Definitely wasn't inbounds.

[tower912]

The line is out from either side.     

[Newsdreams]

Can't find a decent answer on the internet so turning to scoop knowledgables. Is that out of bounds line really out from both sides? I thought Greg's foot would have to be inbounds, not just on the line that makes the start of the out of bounds? Definitely wasn't inbounds.

Rules change, but when I was a guard 42 years ago you had to be behind the line.

[Osiris]

The line is out from either side.     

This is correct.  The line is out of bounds in every scenario.  To commit a violation on an inbound pass you must go over the line. 

[romey]

As I watched the replay I wondered " why is he even close to that line? How about you stand 6 inches behind it? Then if you foot moves an inch or 2 you're not on the line. Or did he start out further back and move forward when he couldn't hit the first open man?

[Shooter McGavin]

Is there a good picture?  He didn't look like his foot was over the line. The ref really had to be scrutinizing it to see that.  Couldn't have been more than a millimeter over the line if he was.

[CTWarrior]

I was wondering the same thing.  The rule is illogical.  If the baseline is out of bounds, and you have to throw it in from out of bounds, you're still out of bonds if your foot is on the line and not over it.  But the rule is the rule and Greg should have been comfortably behind it.

[tower912]

If you touch the line while touching the ball, it is a violation.   

Sometime when you are bored, pull up MU's comeback against Davison.   See if you think Davante committed a violation after his man made the lay up.
Not called.   

[THEbig0]

So there must be a standard on how wide that line is right? I'm guessing teams can't just make it arbitrarily wide as it is it's width then becomes truly meaningful.

[Jay Bee]

Others have explained, but to get right to the rule – which is very clear – we look to the Men's Basketball Rules Book 2021-22, Rule 4 Definitions, Section 6 Boundary Lines: Boundary lines of the playing court shall consist of end lines and sidelines. The inside edges of these lines define the inbounds and out-of-bounds areas.

As for markings, look to Rule 1 Court and Equipment, Section 3 Boundary Lines, Restraining Lines and Other Markings

Art. 1. The court shall be marked with boundary lines (sidelines and end lines), restraining lines and other mandatory lines and markings as shown on the Court Diagram. All lines must be clearly discernible and distinguishable.

Art. 2. Instead of the 2-inch boundaries listed on the Court Diagram, it is legal to use contrasting-colored floor areas by painting the out-of-bounds area, the center circle, and the free-throw lanes and lines so that the mathematical line between the two colors is the boundary. Such a contrasting-colored out-ofbounds belt should be at least 8 inches wide.

Art. 3. The restraining line shall be a solid, interrupted or mathematical line formed between two colors. The line may be a color that is either the same or different from that of the end lines. When space is not available for a 6-foot restraining line, the line should be marked using the maximum available distance. Non-playing personnel shall not be permitted in this area when the ball is live.

Art. 4. A shadow line is a line that designates the required 2-inch width by use of border lines at least 1/4-inch wide, all of which shall lie within the 2-inch width. All shadow lines must be clearly discernible and distinguishable.

[THEbig0]

Well that's a weird rule. The line is a dead space if it is there but doesn't have to be there if you just use colors. I could see that confusing a player in the heat of the moment. Not an excuse but a dead space line strikes me as an odd feature since it isn't even required. Oh well.

[MU82]

Well that's a weird rule. The line is a dead space if it is there but doesn't have to be there if you just use colors. I could see that confusing a player in the heat of the moment. Not an excuse but a dead space line strikes me as an odd feature since it isn't even required. Oh well.

Most coaches teach their players to stand at least a foot behind the line when inbounding so that there is no possibility of what happened to Elliott.

The way Greg's feet were positioned, it looked like he was lining up for an effen free throw. There is no advantage to doing that -- but there are many potential disadvantages, as we saw.

[BrewCity83]

That was a BS call.  With how loose the refs are on that rule throughout the season, to make that call to basically end the game is horrible.

[MU82]

That was a BS call.  With how loose the refs are on that rule throughout the season, to make that call to basically end the game is horrible.

Nice job not using teal.

[OffTheGlass]

What was strange about Greg's decision making was that Jones came to the ball and seem to be wide open, but for some reason he hesitated, decided not to give him the ball.

With only 5 or so seconds on the clock, I don't know why Jones runs directly towards the ball? Creighton didn't seem to really be contesting the ball being thrown in within the first 10-12' or so. Jones should have curled as he headed up court, caught the ball with his momentum now going towards the basket. Had Elliott hit him initially without curling, he would have had to gather himself to change direction thus taking a good second off the clock. It's totally different as you know when you catch the ball on the run going in the right direction.

[MU82]

What was strange about Greg's decision making was that Jones came to the ball and seem to be wide open, but for some reason he hesitated, decided not to give him the ball.

With only 5 or so seconds on the clock, I don't know why Jones runs directly towards the ball? Creighton didn't seem to really be contesting the ball being thrown in within the first 10-12' or so. Jones should have curled as he headed up court, caught the ball with his momentum now going towards the basket. Had Elliott hit him initially without curling, he would have had to gather himself to change direction thus taking a good second off the clock. It's totally different as you know when you catch the ball on the run going in the right direction.

I just watched the (painful) replay a few times. Kam didn't really run at the ball; to me, it looked like he mostly ran across the court as a decoy. The idea was for Greg to inbound to Oso, who was then gonna give it right back to a sprinting Greg to take it up the right sideline.

That's why Greg was in such a hurry to step inbounds.

Had Greg actually executed the play, he'd have caught the ball on a full sprint some 75 feet from our offensive basket with about 4.5 seconds to go. Time for a few big dribbles and then maybe let fly a 25-30 footer.

Creighton did have a foul to give, so maybe one of their guys woulda grabbed Greg near midcourt with a coupla seconds left. If so, the refs probably woulda done a quick review to put the right time on the clock, which woulda given Shaka time to draw up a play. We'd have inbounded from midcourt -- still a long shot, but far stranger things have happened (including Sam's shot in 2019).

Unfortunately, Greg was standing too close to the line to start, and then got excited and stepped on the stripe. So we'll never get to know how it would have unfolded.

[cheebs09]

I'm not sure Greg is the ball handler I'd want going full speed either. Just a weird play.

[Marqevans]

That line violation happens all the time, but they hardly ever call it.  It seems there is a violation half the time if you watch carefully. 

[Shooter McGavin]

Again, he didn't look over the line.  The ref really had to want to make that call.  That was a 100 on the 1-100 ticky tack reffing call line.

[tower912]

I'm not sure Greg is the ball handler I'd want going full speed either. Just a weird play.

Then whom?   

IMO OMP

[MarquetteMike1977]

You can only see this attachment via phone but Creighton Scored earlier in the 2nd Half on this possession after Creighton was clearly out of bounds with ref starring at it. And Greg did not step on the court on his inbounds.

[Dickthedribbler]

In March 1971, Marquette was 26-0, ranked #2 in the country and playing Ohio State in the NCAA Tournament. I believe MU was clinging to a 1 point lead with just a few seconds to go and had to inbound a ball. The MU inbounder stepped on the line (so said the referee). Turnover. A couple of seconds later an OSU guard hits a 15 foot jumper as time runs out.

Game over. Season over. NCAA Title hopes over.

I've seen this before.

If there are some old timers out there with better memories than me, how close did I get on the scenario???

[StillAWarrior]

In March 1971, Marquette was 26-0, ranked #2 in the country and playing Ohio State in the NCAA Tournament. I believe MU was clinging to a 1 point lead with just a few seconds to go and had to inbound a ball. The MU inbounder stepped on the line (so said the referee). Turnover. A couple of seconds later an OSU guard hits a 15 foot jumper as time runs out.

Game over. Season over. NCAA Title hopes over.

I've seen this before.

If there are some old timers out there with better memories than me, how close did I get on the scenario???

You don't have to go back 50 years...this is how Marquette's season ended in 2009.

[The Equalizer]

Others have explained, but to get right to the rule – which is very clear – we look to the Men's Basketball Rules Book 2021-22, Rule 4 Definitions, Section 6 Boundary Lines: Boundary lines of the playing court shall consist of end lines and sidelines. The inside edges of these lines define the inbounds and out-of-bounds areas.

As for markings, look to Rule 1 Court and Equipment, Section 3 Boundary Lines, Restraining Lines and Other Markings

Art. 1. The court shall be marked with boundary lines (sidelines and end lines), restraining lines and other mandatory lines and markings as shown on the Court Diagram. All lines must be clearly discernible and distinguishable.

Art. 2. Instead of the 2-inch boundaries listed on the Court Diagram, it is legal to use contrasting-colored floor areas by painting the out-of-bounds area, the center circle, and the free-throw lanes and lines so that the mathematical line between the two colors is the boundary. Such a contrasting-colored out-ofbounds belt should be at least 8 inches wide.

Art. 3. The restraining line shall be a solid, interrupted or mathematical line formed between two colors. The line may be a color that is either the same or different from that of the end lines. When space is not available for a 6-foot restraining line, the line should be marked using the maximum available distance. Non-playing personnel shall not be permitted in this area when the ball is live.

Art. 4. A shadow line is a line that designates the required 2-inch width by use of border lines at least 1/4-inch wide, all of which shall lie within the 2-inch width. All shadow lines must be clearly discernible and distinguishable.

Watching the close up in the replay, if you look carefully Creighton's out-of-bounds area has a royal blue background and a darker navy blue end line.  8:33 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGZ0PddTyMQ  Given that you can barely make it out due to the close shades of blue, that dark blue end line would seem to be in clear violation of the rule that "All lines must be clearly discernible and distinguishable." 

Greg is stepping on the dark blue line, but not on the clearcoat wood. 

In my view, its entirely possible that Greg thought he was safe as long as he didn't step on the clearcoat wood under the Article 2 court markings.

Compare Creighton's court:
https://d2560u4h06m0te.cloudfront.net/images/2019/12/10/20fansaction11.jpg?width=1920quality=80&format=jpg
The color of the end line is not at all clearly discernible and distinguishable.

to MU's:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PWwaz2yc-Zo/maxresdefault.jpg
MU clearly has the white borders on either side of the end line per Article 4. 

Obviously, Greg could have avoided the entire situation by standing further back, but clearly, Crieighton's court doesn't meet the spirit of the rules at minimum and may be in violation at worst.

[muwarrior69]

You can only see this attachment via phone but Creighton Scored earlier in the 2nd Half on this possession after Creighton was clearly out of bounds with ref starring at it. And Greg did not step on the court on his inbounds.

The rules only apply if you are wearing a Marquette uniform; even if we are playing at home.