Hoya suxa

[Goose]

I call last night progress. The fact that folks are disappointed that we played poorly for 32 minutes and only won by 11 is step forward. Last night was a positive for the growth of the team/program, IMO. Getting the younger guys to play together in late Feb is a luxury and it will pay off later this year or next year. In addition, good teams win when they do not have their A game. MU had their C game and won by 11. I call last night a success. In addition, they can win with their D game on Sunday as long as they win.

[panda]

Excellent comment. 100% true.

The fact that many of us agree with this shouldn't be confused with us being "outraged" or "upset" or any other extreme when it comes to last night's result.

It was a little disappointing as to how it wound up IMHO. I don't think saying that makes anybody over-critical or seeming as to not support Shaka or the team, and I'm actually a little surprised at the degree of pushback. I mean, it was clear that Shaka was a little disappointed, too.

Knock on wood - say one of our starters goes down injured in the next couple games and Stevie or Joplin need more minutes. Getting extended run last night prepares both of them much more than any practice time could. That is more valuable IMO than moving up one spot in the net because we won by 16 instead of 11.

[panda]

I call last night progress. The fact that folks are disappointed that we played poorly for 32 minutes and only won by 11 is step forward. Last night was a positive for the growth of the team/program, IMO. Getting the younger guys to play together in late Feb is a luxury and it will pay off later this year or next year. In addition, good teams win when they do not have their A game. MU had their C game and won by 11. I call last night a success. In addition, they can win with their D game on Sunday as long as they win.

I was typing as you posted - agree 100%

[cheebs09]

Yea, we may have to play some weird combinations in the BET and NCAAT. Might as well get some guys some non-garbage time experience.

[Scoop Snoop]

I call last night progress. The fact that folks are disappointed that we played poorly for 32 minutes and only won by 11 is step forward. Last night was a positive for the growth of the team/program, IMO. Getting the younger guys to play together in late Feb is a luxury and it will pay off later this year or next year. In addition, good teams win when they do not have their A game. MU had their C game and won by 11. I call last night a success. In addition, they can win with their D game on Sunday as long as they win.

As usual, you are the voice of reason. I've been tossing this around in my head today and have slowly come to a similar take. Shaka decided to invest in the future and knew this was very likely his best chance this season.

Like many, I was disappointed with the final margin. In times like this, I remind myself what my expectations were early in the season vs. what Shaka and the team have given us. It's important to look at the big picture rather than bitching about Butler or last night's margin.

[The Equalizer]

Or ... he waited a little too long to make a change. I REALLY like Shaka as a coach, but like all of us, he isn't perfect.

That he didn't give a single one of those guys (except Oso out of necessity) a second of playing time in the final 7:27 of a wrapped-up game tells you all you need to know about what Shaka's degree of contentment there.

I don't like that the current NET system incentivizes running up the score, but that's simply the way it is until it's changed. And Shaka has shown many times this season that he's well aware of it.

We won. I'm glad. It was never in doubt. I'm glad about that, too. We missed an opportunity to improve our NET or at least keep it level. I'm a little disappointed about that ... and I don't think that tiny degree of disappointment makes me hyper-critical or anything. Indeed, I'm guessing Shaka is a little more disappointed than I am.

On to Sunday. It's become a very big game in the grand scheme of things. We Are Marquette!

Not just running up the score, but also the ability to use games to help develop your team.  Think about guys like Joplin and Ellis--they probably get fewer minutes because we want to avoid a closer win than we would have if we just left our starters play longer.

In addition to recognizing that the NET should not incentivize teams to leave in their starters and keep the foot on the gas as long as possible to build scoring margin, I'd like to see two additional fixes:

1.  Give more weight to late-season games.  By giving all games equal weight, you really hurt teams like Marquette that have a lot of newcomers that need time to learn how to play together.  Marquette in March shouldn't be negatively impacted by a 2 point win over New Hampshire from three months prior.

2. Figure how to account for missing key players in individual games (on both sides). The NET impact of Providence over Wisconsin (and yes, MU over Illinois) should be tempered to reflect the absence of key players on the losing side. Similarly, DePaul should get more credit for their win over Xavier (and Xavier should be treated more harshly) because DePaul won without Freeman-Liberty in the lineup.

[dgies9156]

Let me put the kibosh on this now:

1) Georgetown is a crappy team, no ifs, ands or buts. We should have beaten them.

2) We did what we were supposed to do.

3) It was a blow-out, no matter what the final score said. In the last six minutes of the first half, we sent them packing. Everything else was inconsequential.

4) The benefit of beating Georgetown by 20 or 30 is outweighed by the chance to get all of our roster in the game. That will matter in a close NCAA game.

5) The fact that nine of our team members scored is not insignificant either. Not was the bench scoring last night, which was huge.

6) Don't forget, we shot the lights out last night. It's because our inside/out game was really huge.

7) If we kept the heat on full force all night, it was going to come back to bite us. Remember, Georgetown shocked the world last year in the Big East Tournament. Let's not give them a reason to hate us more than they do.

After two losses in a row in games we could have won, this was a nice recovery. On to Omaha and let's kill some Blue Turdbird.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Someone else said this but I think it was the best summary. I am not disappointed that Shaka pulled the starters while up 20+ and gave the bench more run. This theoretically can benefit the team long term by developing the bench, increasing morale for the bench players, and prevent potential injuries to key players. I am disappointed that the bench got outplayed  by 10-15 points. I'm not outraged or anything like that, just noting that the bench has some things to work on (as all players do).

[5DollarPitcher]

sticking with that lineup from up 26 to 13 was one of the worst coaching mistakes of the year.

Just a terrible take. Not everything can be quantified. Getting bench guys some burn in a February Big East game will pay dividends in a way KenPom can’t run through his machine. Good coaches know that.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Let me put the kibosh on this now:

1) Georgetown is a crappy team, no ifs, ands or buts. We should have beaten them.

2) We did what we were supposed to do.

3) It was a blow-out, no matter what the final score said. In the last six minutes of the first half, we sent them packing. Everything else was inconsequential.

4) The benefit of beating Georgetown by 20 or 30 is outweighed by the chance to get all of our roster in the game. That will matter in a close NCAA game.

5) The fact that nine of our team members scored is not insignificant either. Not was the bench scoring last night, which was huge.

6) Don't forget, we shot the lights out last night. It's because our inside/out game was really huge.

7) If we kept the heat on full force all night, it was going to come back to bite us. Remember, Georgetown shocked the world last year in the Big East Tournament. Let's not give them a reason to hate us more than they do.

After two losses in a row in games we could have won, this was a nice recovery. On to Omaha and let's kill some Blue Turdbird.

You forgot
8) unnatural carnal knowledge the Cardinals   

[dgies9156]

You forgot
8) unnatural carnal knowledge the Cardinals 

Brother Spotcheck:

No, I didn't. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Knock on wood - say one of our starters goes down injured in the next couple games and Stevie or Joplin need more minutes. Getting extended run last night prepares both of them much more than any practice time could. That is more valuable IMO than moving up one spot in the net because we won by 16 instead of 11.

The problem with that is I don't see that very unsuccessful run last night being of much benefit.  I think the young guys like Stevie and Joplin benefit more when they're part of a more effective unit on the floor and not one where Stevie launches two 3 pointers because our offense wasn't functioning. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

As usual, you are the voice of reason. I've been tossing this around in my head today and have slowly come to a similar take. Shaka decided to invest in the future and knew this was very likely his best chance this season.

Like many, I was disappointed with the final margin. In times like this, I remind myself what my expectations were early in the season vs. what Shaka and the team have given us. It's important to look at the big picture rather than bitching about Butler or last night's margin.

Questioning or criticizing a decision does not always equal "bitching".  That's just a lazy take. 

[Scoop Snoop]

Questioning or criticizing a decision does not always equal "bitching".  That's just a lazy take.

Fair enough. Specifically, I was talking about myself but point made.

[5DollarPitcher]

Questioning or criticizing a decision does not always equal "bitching".  That's just a lazy take.

Questioning or criticizing a coach for a decision that resulted in going from a double digit win to a double digit win is moronic. Who cares?? Does it help your little ego to pound Georgetown into dust at home?

Part of the reason Wojo’s guys lacked year over year development is because he sucked ass at reaching down the bench. He also had a quick hook for guys like Elliott and Cain early in their careers, killing their confidence entirely. And guess what - our teams sucked anyway!

Now we’ve got a coach exceeding expectations by nearly every metric, poised to make the tourney in Year 1, competing for a top 3 finish in the league in Year 1, and he seems to have the most cohesive Marquette squad in years.

And you are literally bawling over an 11 point win because he got some backups some burn?

SAD!

[panda]

The problem with that is I don't see that very unsuccessful run last night being of much benefit.  I think the young guys like Stevie and Joplin benefit more when they're part of a more effective unit on the floor and not one where Stevie launches two 3 pointers because our offense wasn't functioning.

At minimum, they’re protecting our starters from injury. Couple that with actual playing time and I’m not sure how that’s a negative.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Questioning or criticizing a coach for a decision that resulted in going from a double digit win to a double digit win is moronic. Who cares?? Does it help your little ego to pound Georgetown into dust at home?

Part of the reason Wojo’s guys lacked year over year development is because he sucked ass at reaching down the bench. He also had a quick hook for guys like Elliott and Cain early in their careers, killing their confidence entirely. And guess what - our teams sucked anyway!

Now we’ve got a coach exceeding expectations by nearly every metric, poised to make the tourney in Year 1, competing for a top 3 finish in the league in Year 1, and he seems to have the most cohesive Marquette squad in years.

And you are literally bawling over an 11 point win because he got some backups some burn?

SAD!

While I agree that the hand-wringing over this is a bit much, the bolded just isn't true.  Wojo played about the same number of guys that Shaka is.  Shaka has 9 guys averaging over 10 mpg.  Wojo regularly had 9, even 10 guys averaging that plus one year with 8.  The only year he had 7 was his second year when there was zippo talent outside of Henry.

There was plenty not to like about Wojo, so you don't have to make things up.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Questioning or criticizing a coach for a decision that resulted in going from a double digit win to a double digit win is moronic. Who cares?? Does it help your little ego to pound Georgetown into dust at home?

Part of the reason Wojo’s guys lacked year over year development is because he sucked ass at reaching down the bench. He also had a quick hook for guys like Elliott and Cain early in their careers, killing their confidence entirely. And guess what - our teams sucked anyway!

Now we’ve got a coach exceeding expectations by nearly every metric, poised to make the tourney in Year 1, competing for a top 3 finish in the league in Year 1, and he seems to have the most cohesive Marquette squad in years.

And you are literally bawling over an 11 point win because he got some backups some burn?

SAD!

It literally has nothing to do with my ego, you obtuse halfwit.  Nor am I LITERALLY crying (do me a favor and look up what the word means). 

I'll try to spell it out to you like you're 5 years old, which may not be helpful enough.  Shaka has been outstanding.  Feel free to find any posts where I've criticized him, including during and after the Creighton and Butler losses.  This season has been above and beyond any of my expectations and I'm excited as I've ever been about the future of Marquette basketball.

Yet, last night, I found his lineup decisions in the 2nd half questionable, both in terms of the lineup itself and how long he stayed with it.  I don't see much benefit for some of the guys who don't get a lot of minutes in terms of how they were used last night.  That's not saying I think I know better than Shaka but he's also not infallible.  I think they are fair questions.

Yet asking that has something to do with my ego?  And I'm *literally* crying about it?

Moron. 

[MU82]

Questioning or criticizing a coach for a decision that resulted in going from a double digit win to a double digit win is moronic. Who cares?? Does it help your little ego to pound Georgetown into dust at home?

Part of the reason Wojo’s guys lacked year over year development is because he sucked ass at reaching down the bench. He also had a quick hook for guys like Elliott and Cain early in their careers, killing their confidence entirely. And guess what - our teams sucked anyway!

Now we’ve got a coach exceeding expectations by nearly every metric, poised to make the tourney in Year 1, competing for a top 3 finish in the league in Year 1, and he seems to have the most cohesive Marquette squad in years.

And you are literally bawling over an 11 point win because he got some backups some burn?

SAD!

You literally lie every time you post. You literally know less about basketball than anybody on the planet. You literally cried about a previous Marquette basketball coach ruining your life - oh literally boo literally hoo.

I made the mistake earlier in this thread of trying to have an actual conversation with you, but you literally are unable to act maturely and converse without going on the attack.

Still, the least I can do is help you learn how to use the word correctly, so here it is in a sentence for you:

You literally rooted against Marquette's basketball team, making the rest of Scoop literally wonder if you're even a Marquette fan.

[GoldenEagles03]

Bad win. Between this and Butler, we've dropped 2 seed lines in a week when winning both might've got us in the Top-16 Reveal. I know this is a champagne complaint for a team not expected to be in the field, but sticking with that lineup from up 26 to 13 was one of the worst coaching mistakes of the year. Do that stupid crap when there's 4 minutes left, not 12.

Jerry Palm seems to agree. He dropped Marquette to an 8 seed playing Miami for the right to play Kansas in the Round of 32.

[Uncle Rico]

Jerry Palm seems to agree. He dropped Marquette to an 8 seed playing Miami for the right to play Kansas in the Round of 32.

Jerry Palm is an idiot

[Dr. Blackheart]

Good news! Gtown dipped to
under 200 with only their double digit loss to MU, per KPom.

[RushmoreAcademy]

Coming from a guy whose hobby for a couple of years was rooting against his own alma mater.

You’re confusing me with someone else, I’ve always rooted for MU and only have posts that reflect that.

[MU82]

You’re confusing me with someone else, I’ve always rooted for MU and only have posts that reflect that.

1,000 apologies. I didn't mean that for you, and I just took it down.

[BrewCity83]

There might be another reason Shaka wanted to give his bench so much floor time besides all the things Scoop has already said.  Is it possible that some of the bench players have been begging for more PT?  Did Shaka want to not only give them a chance to earn more PT, but also to prove to them why they might not deserve more PT than they're getting?  If so, that game could go a long way towards giving a few guys a bit of humility.

This is not to say that there's any widespread dissention on the team.  I just know that everyone wants to play and when you have 10 or 11 able bodies on a roster, the PT management is always a delicate balance.