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Author Topic: Final Take on "All-Access".  (Read 3062 times)

Galway Eagle

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2022, 09:27:17 AM »
It might be the wave of the future where you can subscribe to get all the games of your favorite team.

I'd like this utopian world
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MUfan12

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2022, 09:27:50 AM »
I think fans have a romanticized idea about what coaching is. They think that coaching is very strategic Xs and Os and the coaches telling player exactly what to do each possession and the players executing it. I think there are coaches that try that but it causes most players to play rigid because they are more worried about remembering and executing the plan than they are about playing the game.

Great coaches establish a culture and allow their players to play within that culture, they make the game simple for their players rather than more complicated. What I saw Shaka doing was strategy and tactics just not of the Xs and Os variety. He consistently reminded the players of how Marquette basketball is supposed to play and pointed out the little adjustments they needed to make to stay on culture. I enjoyed seeing the players chime in as much as they did because it tells me that they understand Shaka's vision to the point that they can coach each other.

The first paragraph is why Crean has struggled. Run a zillion sets and call out four of them in a possession.

Spot on on the second point. It was rooted in Xs and Os, but distilled to a feel level. They're in a zone, get in the action faster. Make cuts off the high post/elbow catch. They're cutting across face up to the passer, block the cut off. Easily digestible for the guys.

Twice the players more or less took over the clipboard in huddles. Kolek, and I forget who else (Oso?). Pointing out what the defense was doing, and how they wanted guys to move to exploit it. That's really good stuff.

MU82

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2022, 09:29:24 AM »
I think fans have a romanticized idea about what coaching is. They think that coaching is very strategic Xs and Os and the coaches telling player exactly what to do each possession and the players executing it. I think there are coaches that try that but it causes most players to play rigid because they are more worried about remembering and executing the plan than they are about playing the game.

Great coaches establish a culture and allow their players to play within that culture, they make the game simple for their players rather than more complicated. What I saw Shaka doing was strategy and tactics just not of the Xs and Os variety. He consistently reminded the players of how Marquette basketball is supposed to play and pointed out the little adjustments they needed to make to stay on culture. I enjoyed seeing the players chime in as much as they did because it tells me that they understand Shaka's vision to the point that they can coach each other.

Absolutely, to all of that.

Most coaching is done in practice. If players don't "get it" by the opening tip, it's probably too late. The coaches whose teams are great at inbounds plays ... those are designed and rehearsed through hours and hours and hours of practice; they aren't just cooked up on the fly. There's no "hey, let's run the picket fence" out of thin air.

After a team loses a game they "should have won" against an inferior opponent, we'll hear fans say stuff like, "Didn't they know how important that was?" Of course they knew. But most coaches don't emphasize that kind of macro view during a game. They coach in the moment. To yell "This game is crucial! We HAVE to make a play here!" at players would be counterproductive.

One thing I really like that Shaka did was, when we were really getting killed in the rebounding dept, he emphasized: "All 5 have to hit the defensive boards! All 5!" In other words, don't drift out, hoping to get a home-run pass; get your arse in there and rebound, even if you're a guard who was defending on the perimeter. Yes, they practice all 5 rebounding constantly, but in the action, it's easy to find oneself just watching others battle.

And like you, I LOVED that he gave several players a voice during cuddles.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

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Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2022, 09:32:09 AM »
I think fans have a romanticized idea about what coaching is. They think that coaching is very strategic Xs and Os and the coaches telling player exactly what to do each possession and the players executing it. I think there are coaches that try that but it causes most players to play rigid because they are more worried about remembering and executing the plan than they are about playing the game.

Great coaches establish a culture and allow their players to play within that culture, they make the game simple for their players rather than more complicated. What I saw Shaka doing was strategy and tactics just not of the Xs and Os variety. He consistently reminded the players of how Marquette basketball is supposed to play and pointed out the little adjustments they needed to make to stay on culture. I enjoyed seeing the players chime in as much as they did because it tells me that they understand Shaka's vision to the point that they can coach each other.


I think it is also a contrast to how football coaches operate.  They call specific plays on every possession because that's what football is.  That's not what basketball is, which is best played more "free form" with various principles in place.
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avid1010

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2022, 09:38:03 AM »
Absolutely, to all of that.

Most coaching is done in practice. If players don't "get it" by the opening tip, it's probably too late. The coaches whose teams are great at inbounds plays ... those are designed and rehearsed through hours and hours and hours of practice; they aren't just cooked up on the fly. There's no "hey, let's run the picket fence" out of thin air.

After a team loses a game they "should have won" against an inferior opponent, we'll hear fans say stuff like, "Didn't they know how important that was?" Of course they knew. But most coaches don't emphasize that kind of macro view during a game. They coach in the moment. To yell "This game is crucial! We HAVE to make a play here!" at players would be counterproductive.

One thing I really like that Shaka did was, when we were really getting killed in the rebounding dept, he emphasized: "All 5 have to hit the defensive boards! All 5!" In other words, don't drift out, hoping to get a home-run pass; get your arse in there and rebound, even if you're a guard who was defending on the perimeter. Yes, they practice all 5 rebounding constantly, but in the action, it's easy to find oneself just watching others battle.

And like you, I LOVED that he gave several players a voice during cuddles.
IMHO...you are vastly underestimating in-game coaching, half-time adjustments, situational split-second decisions, etc. 

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2022, 09:40:32 AM »

I think it is also a contrast to how football coaches operate.  They call specific plays on every possession because that's what football is.  That's not what basketball is, which is best played more "free form" with various principles in place.

I think a Crean or definitely Majerus got more into playing calling in the huddles. I also think that Fox would cut away often last night when the coaches started drawing up a play. It seemed that every time Shaka grabbed his board last night they switched to the DePaul huddle. Also, they ran commercials at half while teams went over adjustments and just showed the rah rah recap parts by the head coaches. I also noticed the assistant coaches doing 1:1 nuanced teaching after the head coaches spoke.

StillAWarrior

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #56 on: January 12, 2022, 09:40:39 AM »
My final takes:

  • I really liked it and would be perfectly happy to see it two or three times per season
  • Like pretty much everyone else, I think hearing both coaches during play was a bit much...I'd prefer it if they just did one at a time
  • Unlike some others, I liked the split screen. I enjoyed watching the coaches as much as I enjoyed listening to them...maybe more
  • The timeouts and the halftime were the best part (aside from the cut to the team dancing which was the best part)
  • I liked the way that Shaka talks to the team and, like someone else said, I liked the way he let them talk to each other
  • Every now and then Stubblefield would seem to start to say something specific and then just drop it mid-sentence. On one TO he started several different specific statements and didn't finish any of the thoughts and eventually just fell into vague comments. it must be frustrating for his guys.
  • Favorite Shaka comment: "The math is simple. If they don't score, they won't defend."
  • Favorite Stubblefield comment: "Blue blue. No...regular blue." I know what he was saying, but it cracked me up.
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MU82

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #57 on: January 12, 2022, 09:46:39 AM »
IMHO...you are vastly underestimating in-game coaching, half-time adjustments, situational split-second decisions, etc.

We'll respectfully agree to disagree that I am vastly underestimating those things at all.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Galway Eagle

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #58 on: January 12, 2022, 10:00:05 AM »
My final takes:
Favorite Stubblefield comment: "Blue blue. No...regular blue." I know what he was saying, but it cracked me up.


I'm imagining him really stressing employees out at Sherwyn Williams
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mug644

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #59 on: January 12, 2022, 10:06:23 AM »
Did anyone else catch the time (at some point in the second half) when Stubblefield called a timeout, then as he sat down in front of his players, he turned over his shoulder and asked an assistant "who has the ball?" and then "where?" (as in where with they be throwing in from)? If I'm correct that that is what was going on, well, wow.

If someone has the game recorded, I see from ESPN's play-by-play that DePaul called a timeout with 4:50 remaining. That might be a place to check.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 10:12:37 AM by mug644 »

jficke13

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #60 on: January 12, 2022, 10:20:18 AM »
People commenting on the guys being vocal during timeouts... I'm 99% sure that there was a postgame interview that Fanta did with Kolek where Kolek said something along the lines of how Shaka wants the players to take charge of the beginning of timeouts. Watch almost every time out, Shaka walks out from the bench/huddle, says something to the refs or consults w/ the assistants, and only after a chunk of time goes back in and takes his seat at the center of the huddle. I'm pretty sure, by design, he's giving space to the team to become leaders among themselves and trying to foster an environment where you get things like when Kolek was calling out opportunities he saw in the game.

I don't have any basketball coaching experience, but I'm extremely impressed by the cultural environment that creates situations for guys to take ownership of the game and to have the space to voice those opinions. It strikes me as a fantastic leadership environment and I can see it paying serious dividends both down the line in the program, later this season, and already (given our improvement now vs SIU-E)

JakeBarnes

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2022, 10:21:55 AM »
The first paragraph is why Crean has struggled. Run a zillion sets and call out four of them in a possession.

Spot on on the second point. It was rooted in Xs and Os, but distilled to a feel level. They're in a zone, get in the action faster. Make cuts off the high post/elbow catch. They're cutting across face up to the passer, block the cut off. Easily digestible for the guys.

Twice the players more or less took over the clipboard in huddles. Kolek, and I forget who else (Oso?). Pointing out what the defense was doing, and how they wanted guys to move to exploit it. That's really good stuff.

Greg, Oso, and Kolek all had points of taking charge in the huddles when the cameras were on. Lots of ownership on this team. Gives you a lot of insight on what Shaka means when he says "play for each other."

Loved Greg's presser after too--the guys are rooting for each other and buying in that making everyone better is the way to win. Greg was AMPED that Tyler got 10 dimes last night (said he told Tyler before teh game they were gonna get him 10). And the passing certainly looks contagious all of a sudden (Greg with 5 dimes, Kam and Stevie with some great passes--even Kur had a good one that TKo just didn't finish).
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JakeBarnes

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2022, 10:23:07 AM »
Did anyone else catch the time (at some point in the second half) when Stubblefield called a timeout, then as he sat down in front of his players, he turned over his shoulder and asked an assistant "who has the ball?" and then "where?" (as in where with they be throwing in from)? If I'm correct that that is what was going on, well, wow.

If someone has the game recorded, I see from ESPN's play-by-play that DePaul called a timeout with 4:50 remaining. That might be a place to check.

He 100% said that. I believe it was after the foul when he tried to call TO but couldn't.
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brewcity77

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2022, 10:23:38 AM »
I'd like this utopian world

I don't think I would. Reminds me of how people used to want their cable packages ala carte because they didn't like paying for channels they never watched. Well, now you have to pay for ESPN, Netflix, Prime, Hulu, HBOMax, Showtime, Peacock, Paramount, etc etc etc. Instead of saving money, you end up spending more because the batched content is so small. If we got team-only subscriptions, before long you would have to subscribe to every team and suddenly you couldn't tune in to Alabama/Auburn on a Tuesday unless you subscribe to one of the teams.
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JakeBarnes

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2022, 10:24:53 AM »
I don't think I would. Reminds me of how people used to want their cable packages ala carte because they didn't like paying for channels they never watched. Well, now you have to pay for ESPN, Netflix, Prime, Hulu, HBOMax, Showtime, Peacock, Paramount, etc etc etc. Instead of saving money, you end up spending more because the batched content is so small. If we got team-only subscriptions, before long you would have to subscribe to every team and suddenly you couldn't tune in to Alabama/Auburn on a Tuesday unless you subscribe to one of the teams.

Agree. There is definitely an economy of scale with these packages.
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Scoop Snoop

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2022, 10:31:10 AM »
People commenting on the guys being vocal during timeouts... I'm 99% sure that there was a postgame interview that Fanta did with Kolek where Kolek said something along the lines of how Shaka wants the players to take charge of the beginning of timeouts. Watch almost every time out, Shaka walks out from the bench/huddle, says something to the refs or consults w/ the assistants, and only after a chunk of time goes back in and takes his seat at the center of the huddle. I'm pretty sure, by design, he's giving space to the team to become leaders among themselves and trying to foster an environment where you get things like when Kolek was calling out opportunities he saw in the game.

I don't have any basketball coaching experience, but I'm extremely impressed by the cultural environment that creates situations for guys to take ownership of the game and to have the space to voice those opinions. It strikes me as a fantastic leadership environment and I can see it paying serious dividends both down the line in the program, later this season, and already (given our improvement now vs SIU-E)

Great point about letting the guys take ownership instead of a "I talk, you listen!" approach 100% of the time. I founded a small manufacturing company and when I challenged my employees take ownership of production, productivity improved and everyone was happier, having had a say. My guess is that our team, like my employees, become their own critics and know what they need to do. The contrast between Shaka's and Stubblefield's approach was dramatic.
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mug644

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2022, 10:45:18 AM »
People commenting on the guys being vocal during timeouts... I'm 99% sure that there was a postgame interview that Fanta did with Kolek where Kolek said something along the lines of how Shaka wants the players to take charge of the beginning of timeouts. Watch almost every time out, Shaka walks out from the bench/huddle, says something to the refs or consults w/ the assistants, and only after a chunk of time goes back in and takes his seat at the center of the huddle. I'm pretty sure, by design, he's giving space to the team to become leaders among themselves and trying to foster an environment where you get things like when Kolek was calling out opportunities he saw in the game.

I don't have any basketball coaching experience, but I'm extremely impressed by the cultural environment that creates situations for guys to take ownership of the game and to have the space to voice those opinions. It strikes me as a fantastic leadership environment and I can see it paying serious dividends both down the line in the program, later this season, and already (given our improvement now vs SIU-E)

Every coach seems to do this in one way or another. Watch just about any game, and as they go to a timeout, coaches huddle briefly, as players are brought chairs, sit down and are given water. Gotta believe that players are talking to each other then. Then the coaches break up their little huddle and the head coach sits down with the players.

This is not to say that Shaka's style of listening and encouraging players to speak up is not valuable, just that those few moments with other coaches before sitting is not so unique.

Markusquette

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2022, 10:48:14 AM »
Did not enjoy. I liked a few aspects like the huddle and locker room bits but I could go without it. Honestly don't need to listen to that (especially hearing BLUE yelled 300 times) and feel it's maybe better left private between the teams and coaches.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #68 on: January 12, 2022, 10:58:11 AM »
I don't think I would. Reminds me of how people used to want their cable packages ala carte because they didn't like paying for channels they never watched. Well, now you have to pay for ESPN, Netflix, Prime, Hulu, HBOMax, Showtime, Peacock, Paramount, etc etc etc. Instead of saving money, you end up spending more because the batched content is so small. If we got team-only subscriptions, before long you would have to subscribe to every team and suddenly you couldn't tune in to Alabama/Auburn on a Tuesday unless you subscribe to one of the teams.

You have a great point about the content platforms but with sports I think it's a bit different. I'm not saying destroy ESPN or FS1 but I don't watch sports talk shows so I think there's a demographic that'd pay for the Marquette (or Big East package. Any other sport I watch (rugby, GAA, Boxing) I'm already paying for streaming services anyways.

The scenario you provide, correct me if I'm wrong, assumes that Marquette wouldn't be available and then you'd have to pay for another package and another package till it's like you had cable anyways. Right?
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brewcity77

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #69 on: January 12, 2022, 11:06:06 AM »
The scenario you provide, correct me if I'm wrong, assumes that Marquette wouldn't be available and then you'd have to pay for another package and another package till it's like you had cable anyways. Right?

Yes, I feel like they would find ways to give us less content for a higher price, which is basically what happens with cutting the cable. A number of shows I used to be able to get through my cable package now require an extra subscription, and when it's one NBC show, one Paramount show, one ABC show, suddenly I have to pay three subscription fees to watch three shows that used to be all under one subscription umbrella. Guessing they would do the same with sports, allowing you to subscribe to each team, say $2.99/month per team, or $7.99 for an entire league, or $99.99 for all the CBB games you want, and suddenly you're paying way more than you did in the past.

If there's one thing companies are great at, it's convincing us to ask for less and less while charging more and more.
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#UnleashKolek

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #70 on: January 12, 2022, 12:23:43 PM »
This should be an alternative feed on fox sports go. I'd occasionally watch, but prefer traditional.

mug644

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #71 on: January 12, 2022, 12:31:50 PM »
This should be an alternative feed on fox sports go. I'd occasionally watch, but prefer traditional.

I can’t imagine that coaches would go for this as a regular thing. Shaka, in his post-game comments to the team, seemed to acknowledge the awkwardness of the cameras, and I’m guessing that he somehow tempered his behavior or language in some ways due to the microphone.

I sure hope that Stubblefield’s “advisors” are telling him to avoid participating in all-access games from here on out.

Stretchdeltsig

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #72 on: January 12, 2022, 12:32:03 PM »
I liked listening on the time out talks. At times it was hard to understand what was being said because of the background noise. The audio system needs to be corrected to cit down the crowd noise.

Galway Eagle

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #73 on: January 12, 2022, 12:32:57 PM »
I liked listening on the time out talks. At times it was hard to understand what was being said because of the background noise. The audio system needs to be corrected to cit down the crowd noise.

This. During one segment you heard the team happy birthday video on the jumbotron clearer than the timeout
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Newsdreams

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Re: Final Take on "All-Access".
« Reply #74 on: January 12, 2022, 12:47:32 PM »
This should be an alternative feed on fox sports go. I'd occasionally watch, but prefer traditional.
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