Class Year of Players and MU Records

[The Equalizer]

Given MU's decision to list COVID-year returning players with their prior class, such as Justin Lewis reported as a "Redshirt Freshman," how do they intend to treat this year's performances with respect to MU's class records?

At his current pace of 15.7 points, Lewis would come in #2 on the All-Time freshman scoring list behind Henry Ellenson's 17 ppg.  However, he would only rank 9th if he's grouped with the Sophomores. 

Kolek is on a pace to finish #1 in assists right now regardless of whether he's classified as a freshman or sophomore with respect to the record books. However, if he's given the Freshman record this year, he can presumably repeat the feat over the next three years and go for the class record in all four classes.

[Norm]

This is why MU's decision to do this is so stupid. Thia is obviously Lewis' sophomore year so stop trying to skirt things MU.

[The Sultan]

This is why MU's decision to do this is so stupid. Thia is obviously Lewis' sophomore year so stop trying to skirt things MU.

I can believe people are actually upset about this. What exactly are they skirting?

[Norm]

I can believe people are actually upset about this. What exactly are they skirting?

I may have used the wrong term, but its just dumb of MU to label Lewis as a RS Freshman. He's a sophomore. He wasn't red shirted, he didn't sit out a season.

[The Sultan]

I may have used the wrong term, but its just dumb of MU to label Lewis as a RS Freshman. He's a sophomore. He wasn't red shirted, he didn't sit out a season.

Everyone was granted an extra year of eligibility.  How exactly do you want them to list it?

College football players can play four games and still redshirt, and schools will use "redshirt freshman" for their second year of competition.  It's the same thing.

[rocky_warrior]

Everyone was granted an extra year of eligibility.  How exactly do you want them to list it?

College football players can play four games and still redshirt, and schools will use "redshirt freshman" for their second year of competition.  It's the same thing.

Perhaps you missed the thread where I looked into it and MU is the only BE school to list them this way.  As far as I found, the others just went with class year.  And in the case where they were 5th year seniors (i.e. Gillespie) they were just listed as "Sr" again.

[tower912]

8 of the 11 players this year are in their first or second year.    This is a unique year.   

[The Sultan]

Perhaps you missed the thread where I looked into it and MU is the only BE school to list them this way.  As far as I found, the others just went with class year.  And in the case where they were 5th year seniors (i.e. Gillespie) they were just listed as "Sr" again.

No I saw it.  I think Marquette's description is more accurate.  Justin has three years left after this year which is very evident by the class year listed.  Some random-ass BE guy is a senior...but still has another year remaining.  That makes less sense to me.

[rocky_warrior]

No I saw it.  I think Marquette's description is more accurate.  Justin has three years left after this year which is very evident by the class year listed.  Some random-ass BE guy is a senior...but still has another year remaining.  That makes less sense to me.

Haha.  Ok.  So you just agree with MU and disagree with a majority of other schools.  Cool homer

[Dr. Blackheart]

Lewis for BE Freshman of the Year!

[rocky_warrior]

Lewis for BE Freshman of the Year!

I mean, it looks like he's only gotta beat out Oso and Mohammed (true Frosh)
https://www.barttorvik.com/conf.php?conf=BE

(poor Kalkbrenner, Posh, Colby Jones, David Jones and Eric Dixon who didn't get to repeat their Freshman years!)

[TallTitan34]

I get the reasoning.  It shows how many seasons the player has left.  And it's like the bizarre 2020-21 season didn't count.

I wouldn't have done it myself (even on Overload for season stats I consider Oso, Lewis, Kolek, etc. a Sophomore) but I get the reasoning behind it.

[Jay Bee]

RFr

[rocky_warrior]

I get the reasoning.  It shows how many seasons the player has left.  And it's like the bizarre 2020-21 season didn't count.

I wouldn't have done it myself (even on Overload for season stats I consider Oso, Lewis, Kolek, etc. a Sophomore) but I get the reasoning behind it.

As anyone that occasionally checks in here knows, it bugs me.  Primarily because it's as accurate as calling them a 5th year HS sophomore, but also because of the stats - as compared to our peers (see Torvik and Kenpom). 

Perhaps if the NCAA recommended schools to do it one way or the other, then I could get behind it.  But as it stands, Marquette did it the "nonstandard" way compared to about 270 of their peers.

Ok, I'll move my soapbox to a new location.

RFr

Redshirt would *normally* imply the didn't participate in games for one year of their eligibility.  Not accurate in this case.  Covid/Super senior would make more sense.  So yes, there could be a Redshirt Super Senior.

last edit, maybe:  If Marquette had a Redshirt Freshman last year, would they now call them a 2nd year Redshirt Freshman?  That's dumb.

[Jay Bee]

I'm open to covid freshman. And we use the covid designation for several years

[rocky_warrior]

I'm open to covid freshman. And we use the covid designation for several years

If that's the standard that all schools use - I'm good with it too. (But clearly it's not).  To Equalizer's original point, I do think this 5 years messes with the history books.  Even more than going from freshman ineligible, to 4 year players in 1972.

[panda]

If that's the standard that all schools use - I'm good with it too. (But clearly it's not).  To Equalizer's original point, I do think this 5 years messes with the history books.  Even more than going from freshman ineligible, to 4 year players in 1972.

There is a need for proper designation. Calling Justin Lewis, Tyler Kolek freshmen is deceiving.

[The Sultan]

There is a need for proper designation. Calling Justin Lewis, Tyler Kolek freshmen is deceiving.

Calling them redshirt freshmen is not.  Which is what MU is doing.

[Uncle Rico]

There is a need for proper designation. Calling Justin Lewis, Tyler Kolek freshmen is deceiving.

Call them sophmen of freshmores

[panda]

Calling them redshirt freshmen is not.  Which is what MU is doing.

They're not redshirt freshmen.

[panda]

Call them sophmen of freshmores

This is the leader in the clubhouse

[MU82]

Where's O'tule when we need him? Would be nice to have another tall freshman in the program.

[BrewCity83]

The guys who played as Freshmen last year are not still Freshmen in any sense, except their remaining amount of eligibility.  For Justin Lewis to have 60 games as a "Freshman" in keeping track of Freshman statistics vs. players from past history is ridiculous.  Those guys are Sophomores now and will be Juniors next year, as they always have been.  A guy like Brad Davison who is in his 2nd Senior season may be called a Super Senior or a Covid Senior or whatever else you want to call them, but a 1st year college player is still a Freshman and a 2nd year player is and always has been a Sophomore, excepting those that actually did redshirt and not play a season.

[Jay Bee]

They're not redshirt freshmen.

They are, depending on your def of redshirt.

Redshirt is a description used by people. It's not an NCAA term.

Justin's classification for eligibility purposes is absolutely FRESHMAN.

[MDMU04]

nm