Interesting Press Conference Myles Johnson

[Elonsmusk]

I'm sure a guy that smart won't be insulted by a compliment. But by all means be insulted on his behalf anyway.

I agree with this analysis.  However for those who go through this life looking for reasons to be aggrieved, well, they'd take being called articulate as an insult.

And this is right on the money too:

To me, "articulate" isn't a word commonly associated with athletes, regardless of their race.  It's the dumb jock stereotype.  When an athlete speaks articulately it gets noticed.   

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm sure a guy that smart won't be insulted by a compliment. But by all means be insulted on his behalf anyway.

And make sure to tell him how insulted he should be and how wrong he is if he isn't.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And make sure to tell him how insulted he should be and how wrong he is if he isn't.

I don't think anyone here has done that.  But I do see people saying if someone is insulted that you should tell them not to be.

[The Sultan]

I'm sure a guy that smart won't be insulted by a compliment. But by all means be insulted on his behalf anyway.

And make sure to tell him how insulted he should be and how wrong he is if he isn't.

No one said either of these things.

What TAMU said was this:  "I wouldn't use the word articulate when describing a person of color. For better or worse, that word has become a dog whistle of sorts with the implication being that White people are always articulate and it is a surprise when people of color are articulate."

Why are you so reflexively defensive about this?  Whether or not you think people should be insulted about this doesn't mean that they aren't.  And some people aren't and obviously that's OK.

[Billy Hoyle]

I don't think anyone here has done that.  But I do see people saying if someone is insulted that you should tell them not to be.

Not referring to people here but the societal trend of being offended on behalf of someone else then being offended when they aren't offended. My wife has bee criticized  many times in her life for not being offended by comments or actions by others. To immediately respond that someone shouldn't use a term thst is a complement is immediately insinuating the person being complemented could be offended is typical of our times.

I had an executive tell me I was "very professional" in my presentation. Shoukd I be insulted? Thinking I shoukd be now.

[WhiteTrash]

Not referring to people here but the societal trend of being offended on behalf of someone else then being offended when they aren't offended. My wife has bee criticized  many times in her life for not being offended by comments or actions by others. To immediately respond that someone shouldn't use a term thst is a complement is immediately insinuating the person being complemented could be offended is typical of our times.

I had an executive tell me I was "very professional" in my presentation. Shoukd I be insulted? Thinking I shoukd be now.

Some people need to make themselves feel better by claiming racism where there is none. They believe 100% of all white people are racist. All men are sexist. All Catholics support pedophilia. IMO they have a desire to drive people apart.

Seriously, what should a white or Asian person do if asked to do a professional review of a person of Color and they are  asked about that person's communication skills? Obviously it would be racist to rate them well. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not referring to people here but the societal trend of being offended on behalf of someone else then being offended when they aren't offended. My wife has bee criticized  many times in her life for not being offended by comments or actions by others. To immediately respond that someone shouldn't use a term thst is a complement is immediately insinuating the person being complemented could be offended is typical of our times.

I had an executive tell me I was "very professional" in my presentation. Shoukd I be insulted? Thinking I shoukd be now.

How about people don't tell others that they should be offended when they aren't AND people don't tell others that they shouldn't be offended when they are? Why not just respect and acknowledge people's feelings? I think we can all agree with that.

I wasn't insinuating that someone could be offended. I was directly saying it. I wasn't saying that anyone was offended or should be offended or that anyone should feel bad for saying it, just that it is something that in today's day and age is considered a faux paus by some and oftentimes won't be taken as the compliment it is intended to be. I also politely tell people when their flies are down, there's something in their teeth, or if they unknowingly bring up a topic that is a sore spot for the person they are talking to.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Some people need to make themselves feel better by claiming racism where there is none. They believe 100% of all white people are racist. All men are sexist. All Catholics support pedophilia. IMO they have a desire to drive people apart.

Well 1, all White people (and all Black, Brown, Orange, and Purple people too) do and say racist things on occasion. It's part of being human. Same with men (and people of all other genders) doing and saying sexist things on occasion.

2, anyone who says all Catholics support pedophilia is not a reasonable person and shouldn't be listened to.

3, maybe instead of trying to divide, they're trying to acknowledge some of these things that are already dividing us so they can be addressed? Sure, there are some who are just interested in conflict but I think the majority are people who are willing to listen to others and acknowledge some of the things that they are feeling and experiencing.

Seriously, what should a white or Asian person do if asked to do a professional review of a person of Color and they are  asked about that person's communication skills? Obviously it would be racist to rate them well.

Well if it was my staff, I would want them to rate them honestly and support their rating with specifics about what made their communication skills strong or weak. If all they wrote was "articulate" personally, I would take that as damning the candidate with faint praise.

[Lennys Tap]

No one said either of these things.

What TAMU said was this:  "I wouldn't use the word articulate when describing a person of color. For better or worse, that word has become a dog whistle of sorts with the implication being that White people are always articulate and it is a surprise when people of color are articulate."

Why are you so reflexively defensive about this?  Whether or not you think people should be insulted about this doesn't mean that they aren't.  And some people aren't and obviously that's OK.

If TAMU wants to live in a bizarro world where up means down depending on one's skin color I'm OK with that. But when he said "I wouldn't..." it didn't come off as his personal preference but more as a lecture/warning
to dg to watch what he was saying because it was offensive.

Real insults aren't in such short supply (you send them my way on a regular basis) that we need to turn compliments into them. I know plenty of black, white and brown people who are articulate and some who aren't. That anyone should be deprived of that compliment because of his or her skin color seems a racist concept to me.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If TAMU wants to live in a bizarro world where up means down depending on one's skin color I'm OK with that. But when he said "I wouldn't..." it didn't come off as his personal preference but more as a lecture/warning
to dg to watch what he was saying because it was offensive.

Real insults aren't in such short supply (you send them my way on a regular basis) that we need to turn compliments into them. I know plenty of black, white and brown people who are articulate and some who aren't. That anyone should be deprived of that compliment because of his or her skin color seems a racist concept to me.

Lenny, if you are unable to compliment someone's speaking skills without using the word articulate than I'm worried about whether or not you are articulate. No one is depriving anyone of any compliments.

A compliment should be about the other person. It should be about making them feel recognized and appreciated. Maybe calling someone articulate will have that impact on them and awesome if it does. Maybe (and I think this is the case most of them time) it will have no meaningful impact positive or negative because even though it is intended as a compliment, it honestly isn't much of one. But many people of color over the past few years have voiced their opinion that this doesn't make them feel recognized or appreciated, rather it makes them feel annoyed, insulted, or degraded. Are you saying these people are liars?

Respect and acknowledge other people's feelings. It's really not that big of an ask.

[WhiteTrash]

Lenny, if you are unable to compliment someone's speaking skills without using the word articulate than I'm worried about whether or not you are articulate. No one is depriving anyone of any compliments.

A compliment should be about the other person. It should be about making them feel recognized and appreciated. Maybe calling someone articulate will have that impact on them and awesome if it does. Maybe (and I think this is the case most of them time) it will have no meaningful impact positive or negative because even though it is intended as a compliment, it honestly isn't much of one. But many people of color over the past few years have voiced their opinion that this doesn't make them feel recognized or appreciated, rather it makes them feel annoyed, insulted, or degraded. Are you saying these people are liars?

Respect and acknowledge other people's feelings. It's really not that big of an ask.

Speaking for myself, this is the first time I've ever heard the term 'articulate' being offensive.

But I'm also the 'bumpkin' bigot that only found out in the past year that 'he' and 'she' are offensive.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Speaking for myself, this is the first time I've ever heard the term 'articulate' being offensive.

Were you asleep during the 2008 presidential election? Or during any of the subsequent elections where Biden's 2007 gaffe was brought up every news cycle?

If you were, now you know. Here's some further reading if you would like to learn more.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html

But I'm also the 'bumpkin' bigot that only found out in the past year that 'he' and 'she' are offensive.

You've said this before, again, I'm not familiar with how those terms are offensive. Could you explain it?

[SaveOD238]

But I'm also the 'bumpkin' bigot that only found out in the past year that 'he' and 'she' are offensive.

She and he are only offensive when someone says "call me she" or "call me they" and you say "he" anyway.

As TAMU just said... "

Respect and acknowledge other people's feelings. It's really not that big of an ask.

[WhiteTrash]

Were you asleep during the 2008 presidential election? Or during any of the subsequent elections where Biden's 2007 gaffe was brought up every news cycle?

If you were, now you know. Here's some further reading if you would like to learn more.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/weekinreview/04clemetson.html

You've said this before, again, I'm not familiar with how those terms are offensive. Could you explain it?

I've tried to be asleep for most of the presidential elections in the past 20 years. Underwhelming candidates on both sides that depresses me.

As for 'he' and 'she'; you are expected to ask someone how they would like to be referred to before making insensitive assumptions. Here is an example from our dear friends at UWM: https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

You must have been asleep the past year or a insensitive bastard! LOL.

[WhiteTrash]

She and he are only offensive when someone says "call me she" or "call me they" and you say "he" anyway.

That may apply to you but the reason this came to my attention was a business acquaintance told me a year ago he was chastised for referring to someone as 'he' without any notification while getting a bagel. A learning moment for him (I have his permission to use 'him') and me.

[The Sultan]

If TAMU wants to live in a bizarro world where up means down depending on one's skin color I'm OK with that. But when he said "I wouldn't..." it didn't come off as his personal preference but more as a lecture/warning
to dg to watch what he was saying because it was offensive.

Real insults aren't in such short supply (you send them my way on a regular basis) that we need to turn compliments into them. I know plenty of black, white and brown people who are articulate and some who aren't. That anyone should be deprived of that compliment because of his or her skin color seems a racist concept to me.

I am very much not-shocked-at-all that you don't understand that some people may be offended by something that you intend as a compliment.  TAMU isn't living in a "bizzaro world."  Words mean different things to different people depending on the context in which they are used.  That has always been the case.

And if you get all corked because TAMU said "I wouldn't..." then I think I know who's the overly sensitive one here.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

As for 'he' and 'she'; you are expected to ask someone how they would like to be referred to before making insensitive assumptions. Here is an example from our dear friends at UWM: https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

You must have been asleep the past year or a insensitive bastard! LOL.

How does that equate to "he and she are offensive" as you claimed? Yes calling someone he when they are a she, they, ze, or whatever pronoun they prefer is likely to offend that person. This is nothing new. I had a male friend when I was younger with long hair who would get upset when someone accidentally called him a girl. My sister went through a pixie haircut phase and got upset when people accidentally mistook her for a boy. Being misgendered is usually a thing that that annoys or offends people.

That may apply to you but the reason this came to my attention was a business acquaintance told me a year ago he was chastised for referring to someone as 'he' without any notification while getting a bagel. A learning moment for him (I have his permission to use 'him') and me.

Are you certain your friend was "chastised"? Or did someone correct him and then he got bent out of shape about it because he either doesn't like being corrected or doesn't like the idea of someone whose pronouns don't match their sex?

[tower912]

I grew up in a house where my father would say in a surprised voice 'that ( ) is really well-spoken.'   So I have thought for 40 years that that phrase is a dog whistle.  For some people some of the time.  However, I do not automatically think that it is in and of itself intentional racism.   Just a phrase I never use.

[The Sultan]

I grew up in a house where my father would say in a surprised voice 'that ( ) is really well-spoken.'   So I have thought for 40 years that that phrase is a dog whistle.  For some people some of the time.  However, I do not automatically think that it is in and of itself intentional racism.   Just a phrase I never use.

Exactly. 

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, if you are unable to compliment someone's speaking skills without using the word articulate than I'm worried about whether or not you are articulate. No one is depriving anyone of any compliments.

A compliment should be about the other person. It should be about making them feel recognized and appreciated. Maybe calling someone articulate will have that impact on them and awesome if it does. Maybe (and I think this is the case most of them time) it will have no meaningful impact positive or negative because even though it is intended as a compliment, it honestly isn't much of one. But many people of color over the past few years have voiced their opinion that this doesn't make them feel recognized or appreciated, rather it makes them feel annoyed, insulted, or degraded. Are you saying these people are liars?

Respect and acknowledge other people's feelings. It's really not that big of an ask.

TAMU, there are and will always be "many people" who spend an inordinate amount of their time looking for opportunities to be aggrieved. And "many people" who join the fray by looking for opportunities to be aggrieved on their behalf. Everything is viewed through the prism of one's "group" (race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., etc.) - and nothing (even language) is shared in common. Nothing unites us and nothing ever will. And imo by seeing bigotry where there is none (insisting that a word is complementary for one race and derogatory towards another?) they give cover to the small % of people who are truly racist. People who cry wolf do the real wolves a favor.

[Lennys Tap]

I am very much not-shocked-at-all that you don't understand that some people may be offended by something that you intend as a compliment.  TAMU isn't living in a "bizzaro world."  Words mean different things to different people depending on the context in which they are used.  That has always been the case.

And if you get all corked because TAMU said "I wouldn't..." then I think I know who's the overly sensitive one here.

Thank you for proving my point.

[MarquetteDano]

Well this thread turned into a Scoopian disaster.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU, there are and will always be "many people" who spend an inordinate amount of their time looking for opportunities to be aggrieved. And "many people" who join the fray by looking for opportunities to be aggrieved on their behalf. Everything is viewed through the prism of one's "group" (race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., etc.) - and nothing (even language) is shared in common. Nothing unites us and nothing ever will. And imo by seeing bigotry where there is none (insisting that a word is complementary for one race and derogatory towards another?) they give cover to the small % of people who are truly racist. People who cry wolf do the real wolves a favor.

So their feelings are not valid because you have decided that they are "looking for opportunities to be aggrieved". That doesn't seem right to me Lenny.

And I'll disagree that "there is nothing that unites us". There is plenty that unites us, acknowledging the differences we have doesn't change that.

[The Sultan]

TAMU, there are and will always be "many people" who spend an inordinate amount of their time looking for opportunities to be aggrieved. And "many people" who join the fray by looking for opportunities to be aggrieved on their behalf. Everything is viewed through the prism of one's "group" (race, gender, sexual orientation, etc., etc.) - and nothing (even language) is shared in common. Nothing unites us and nothing ever will. And imo by seeing bigotry where there is none (insisting that a word is complementary for one race and derogatory towards another?) they give cover to the small % of people who are truly racist. People who cry wolf do the real wolves a favor.

And there are "many people" who will dismiss others feelings because...well...they seemingly don't care and/or don't understand and don't care to learn. 

[MU82]

Nice try, TAMU. A couple years ago, I very gently and respectfully (as you did in this case) mentioned to a Scooper who used the phrase "call a spade a spade" might not be the best saying now. It was met with so much white victimhood.

I mean, "niggardly" is a word. It means stingy or frugal. It's in every dictionary. It's a legit word that any non-racist could use in the right context and form a legit sentence. But why would anybody use that word when there are so many alternatives?

"Articulate" has been considered worda-non-grata when talking about or to Black athletes for many years. I appreciate you trying to educate. But some would rather be offended ... and ironically, they say it's because they're tired of people being so easily offended.