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Author Topic: We'll be fine.....but  (Read 1751 times)

MuggsyB

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We'll be fine.....but
« on: November 21, 2021, 08:47:53 PM »
Very disappointing game for sure but it's not that surprising.  Personally, I think SBU is a solid tournament team, with experience, but will not do much in March.  Their quickness gave us probs and we lost poise.  I was however dumbfounded by the press.  They weren't turning it over, it appeared to be a flawed strategy.  We also over dribbled constantly and really had no offensive flow all night.  I think we'll be okay, this was just one of those dud games, and it won't mean much moving forward.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2021, 08:51:00 PM by MuggsyB »

brewcity77

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2021, 05:45:12 AM »
St Bonaventure countered the press by pushing the pace. They transitioned quickly, which didn't allow us to establish the press and they did well breaking it when we did. Of course, it's also hard to press when you aren't making shots.

We also weren't penetrating, which meant we weren't drawing fouls as we settled for marginal perimeter jumpers. Also too many drives stopped short as guys took non-paint pullups.

We looked young. It won't be the last time this season. But the 11-2 run to end the game meant we lost by 16 instead of the 30+ it was trending to. I'll take that small victory out of what was otherwise an ugly loss and move on. Hopefully a few of the voters that put the Bonnies in the top-15 are kind enough to give us a few votes because we still had a hell of a week.
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Viper

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2021, 07:18:59 AM »
SB is solid. Not much depth, but a strong top 6. Could see them advancing to a Sweet 16. No shame in this loss. Upcoming, split UW and KState (preferably beat RED), hang w/UCLA, beat the ‘cakes.

MuggsyB

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2021, 07:55:22 AM »
St Bonaventure countered the press by pushing the pace. They transitioned quickly, which didn't allow us to establish the press and they did well breaking it when we did. Of course, it's also hard to press when you aren't making shots.

We also weren't penetrating, which meant we weren't drawing fouls as we settled for marginal perimeter jumpers. Also too many drives stopped short as guys took non-paint pullups.

We looked young. It won't be the last time this season. But the 11-2 run to end the game meant we lost by 16 instead of the 30+ it was trending to. I'll take that small victory out of what was otherwise an ugly loss and move on. Hopefully a few of the voters that put the Bonnies in the top-15 are kind enough to give us a few votes because we still had a hell of a week.

I think it was somewhat the perfect storm which led to a dud performance but finding ways to get quality shots vs tearms with quickness has me somewhat concerned.   I also think not only was the press ineffective, it gassed us to a degree on the offensive end.. 

In our half-court sets, Kolek has most of the responsibility to create.  Against quick teams with switchables that's a difficult task night in and night out.  So when you talk about our lack of penetration that's correct but it's what guys do when they get into the paint.  Our passing off the dribble was just not thete yesterday.  We're going to have to find ways to get better shots in our offense and take fewer forced threes or one on one launches.

brewcity77

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2021, 08:14:42 AM »
I think it was somewhat the perfect storm which led to a dud performance but finding ways to get quality shots vs tearms with quickness has me somewhat concerned.   I also think not only was the press ineffective, it gassed us to a degree on the offensive end.. 

If we didn't find quality shots against quick teams like Illinois and West Virginia, I might agree. If we didn't see the press repeatedly turn defense into offense earlier in the week, I might agree. But we did see those things, so I think you're off base.

It was a bad game, but it was a great week. Don't let the highs get you too high or the lows get you too low. This is a young, growing team that was never going to go 40-0 and probably won't go 39-1 either. And that's fine.
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MuggsyB

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2021, 08:20:38 AM »
If we didn't find quality shots against quick teams like Illinois and West Virginia, I might agree. If we didn't see the press repeatedly turn defense into offense earlier in the week, I might agree. But we did see those things, so I think you're off base.

It was a bad game, but it was a great week. Don't let the highs get you too high or the lows get you too low. This is a young, growing team that was never going to go 40-0 and probably won't go 39-1 either. And that's fine.

Fair enough. 

TallTitan34

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2021, 08:25:36 AM »
probably won't go 39-1

Fair weather fan.

I have to say this might be the most level headed I've ever seen Scoop after a loss. 
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Dr. Blackheart

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2021, 08:32:13 AM »
Obviously, way above expectations so far to date. Three big wins against P5 conference teams. We beat teams with tough defense. Something we'll need in the Big East meat grinder.

Our half court offense is our biggest question area that needs a lot of work. I am struggling where the answer to that will come from but I think it's somewhere on the bench. If MU is not having a good trey shooting night, it will be a tough night. MU likes to start its offense on the wings, where StB pinched and doubled Kolek and Morsell, and brought us to a grinding halt. It was a rock fight that MU lost. Others will copy until we can solve.

The best thing so far is the true freshmen have got quality minutes  against quality teams. Tons of mistakes but also tons of upside. Kam and Jop will continue to get more minutes as Shaka's rotations tighten in December.

The core of the starters and Greg need to find consistency playing together and within a new system.  I think they haven't played a good whole game yet, just some halves. The December schedule is extremely demanding. Moresell has been "to have or have not". Kolek has been turnover happy and was poor defensively last night. Kur can dunk but a strong post up player last night exposed him. On O, he can dunk. OMax is raw offensively, but a good defender. Oso needs to get more physical. Greg has been a disappointment. Only JLew has brought it every half.

The starters need to bring it early in the season as the season to date has shown. Shaka is teaching a lesson every time out, every technical, every rotation, every taunt. It will be a sea-saw until January at the earliest.

I'd still be very happy with .500 in the BE. These P5 wins should help MU in March.

brewcity77

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2021, 08:48:26 AM »
I think the Ole Miss and WVU results encourage me more than anything else this week. Illinois was awesome, but there was the "no Kofi" argument and the potential for letdown. I also thought 2-1 in Charleston was realistic, but would likely need those wins to be Elon and Temple/Boise. That we not only avoided the letdown, but came back against Ole Miss to do it, then basically ran roughshod over an experienced probable tournament team like WVU was an indicator this team can be pretty good.

Hell, after Illinois I said in a group chat that win would fuel me for weeks to come. The way we backed that up, even with a letdown Sunday, was excellent.
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Pakuni

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2021, 08:52:26 AM »
Yeah, despite a stinker last night, it was a great week for MU hoops. If you'd have told any of us that the team would come out of the week 5-1, we'd all have taken it in a heartbeat.
Next challenge ... get to 9-1 before facing UCLA. Tough, but do-able.

brewcity77

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2021, 09:02:14 AM »
Yeah, despite a stinker last night, it was a great week for MU hoops. If you'd have told any of us that the team would come out of the week 5-1, we'd all have taken it in a heartbeat.
Next challenge ... get to 9-1 before facing UCLA. Tough, but do-able.

At this point, I'd be happy with 8-2, because it would mean a high-major road win. That would be enough of a resume that in the Big East, 8-9 wins would give us a good shot at the NIT and 10-11 would be enough for a NCAA bid. Either would be a successful season.
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MU82

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2021, 09:14:41 AM »
Based on what we've seen so far, our heroes are very capable of going 4-0 before the UCLA game. Of course, we also are very capable of going 2-2.

Madison is never easy, obviously. And we'll know more about K-State in about 36 hours; they are in a tournament, and they play Arkansas tonight and either Illinois or Cincinnati tomorrow night.

A split of the two road games is reasonably optimistic, so I'll agree with brew.

It's impossible that we lose to Northern or Jackson St., right? Right? Please say that's right!
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

VanderBlueFanClub

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2021, 09:19:37 AM »
We made a great run in this tournament, and we found out our main weaknesses are experience and rebounding. Great things to find out in the early season and not in January or February.
2016-2017 G-League MVP - Vander Blue

Pakuni

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2021, 09:23:03 AM »
Based on what we've seen so far, our heroes are very capable of going 4-0 before the UCLA game. Of course, we also are very capable of going 2-2.

Madison is never easy, obviously. And we'll know more about K-State in about 36 hours; they are in a tournament, and they play Arkansas tonight and either Illinois or Cincinnati tomorrow night.

A split of the two road games is reasonably optimistic, so I'll agree with brew.

It's impossible that we lose to Northern or Jackson St., right? Right? Please say that's right!

NIU has lost its last three - to Indiana, Mizzou and Boston U - by a combined 71 points. A loss to them would be very bad.

dgies9156

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2021, 09:25:45 AM »
Gang, these early season games, both wins and losses, are learning experiences.

We've learned how good tournament teams are -- and what we have to do to win.

We've demonstrated a can-do spirit and talent capable of beating good teams in Illinois, Ole Miss and West virginia.

We've learned how tough it will be to sustain excellence in a tournament environment come March. And, we've learned how tough it is to be consistently excellent.

There's a long season ahead of us, but even in a loss, there's a lot to like about Shake and the team!

brewcity77

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2021, 09:28:13 AM »
It's impossible that we lose to Northern or Jackson St., right? Right? Please say that's right!

I'm not one for absolutes either way, but I would consider either to be highly unlikely. I know NIU upset Washington on opening night, but since then per Torvik they are #329 in the country and #352 in eFG% offense. They also turn it over a lot. I don't think they have the length or the discipline to stick with our team. Oh, and Washington is terrible; per kenpom they are the third-worst high-major team ahead of only Pitt and Georgia.

Jackson State might be a little more feisty, but they have never beat a high-major team in Wayne Brent's 9 years there and never won a top-200 road game, and will almost certainly come into this one 0-5. They aren't terrible for a SWAC team, but it would be a bigger disappointment than when we lost to Nebraska-Omaha in Wojo's debut season.
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Skatastrophy

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2021, 09:33:16 AM »
NIU has lost its last three - to Indiana, Mizzou and Boston U - by a combined 71 points. A loss to them would be very bad.

If we don't have another boneheaded loss or two by the end of December I would be very surprised.

BCHoopster

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2021, 09:33:22 AM »
NIU has lost its last three - to Indiana, Mizzou and Boston U - by a combined 71 points. A loss to them would be very bad.

This is not your normal MU team as they have depth.  You play poorly there is somebody to take your place.  I am sure last night probably will happen again, but
the shots were there, but they did not put them in the hole.  Shot the ball horribly.  Morsell and Kolek should not play that bad again.  Next 2 games will be good to
see improvement as the competition is a step below last week.  Disappointed how poorly Mitchell has played at times.  I can see why they recruited Jones for next year.
It was good to see Ellis get a run.  Just to many guards at this time.  Have to find a center next year that can do more than dunk!

dgies9156

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2021, 09:35:53 AM »
This is not your normal MU team as they have depth.  You play poorly there is somebody to take your place.  I am sure last night probably will happen again, but
the shots were there, but they did not put them in the hole.  Shot the ball horribly.  Morsell and Kolek should not play that bad again.  Next 2 games will be good to
see improvement as the competition is a step below last week.  Disappointed how poorly Mitchell has played at times.  I can see why they recruited Jones for next year.
It was good to see Ellis get a run.  Just to many guards at this time.  Have to find a center next year that can do more than dunk!

Look, most teams have nights like Sunday. The Bonnies hit us on a bad night. Some of our poor shooting was a sign of exhaustion.

We'll fix it. Period.

BM1090

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2021, 09:58:54 AM »
I'm not one for absolutes either way, but I would consider either to be highly unlikely. I know NIU upset Washington on opening night, but since then per Torvik they are #329 in the country and #352 in eFG% offense. They also turn it over a lot. I don't think they have the length or the discipline to stick with our team. Oh, and Washington is terrible; per kenpom they are the third-worst high-major team ahead of only Pitt and Georgia.

Jackson State might be a little more feisty, but they have never beat a high-major team in Wayne Brent's 9 years there and never won a top-200 road game, and will almost certainly come into this one 0-5. They aren't terrible for a SWAC team, but it would be a bigger disappointment than when we lost to Nebraska-Omaha in Wojo's debut season.

Mike Hopkins has certainly built a program.

panda

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2021, 10:01:27 AM »
Mike Hopkins has certainly built a program.

Yikes - The UW slide has been something to watch. Incredible considering where they were just ten years ago.

BLM

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2021, 10:05:48 AM »
Mike Hopkins has certainly built a program.

Keefe?  That you?
Black Lives Matter

BCHoopster

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2021, 10:17:36 AM »
Look, most teams have nights like Sunday. The Bonnies hit us on a bad night. Some of our poor shooting was a sign of exhaustion.

We'll fix it. Period.
[/quote. 

Please do not use exhaustion, at there age they love to play everyday and they had Saturday off. Maybe mental exhaustion but not physical.  I give credit to Bonnie as they are that good. Shaka got outcoached yesterday, has to know when to back off the press when the other team is getting dunks and layups all the time. 

MU82

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2021, 10:41:14 AM »
Look, most teams have nights like Sunday. The Bonnies hit us on a bad night. Some of our poor shooting was a sign of exhaustion.

Tired legs?
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

WarriorFan

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Re: We'll be fine.....but
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2021, 01:02:27 PM »
StB is where I hope the MU program can get in a year or two.  Experienced, aggressive, great D, well coached, makes adjustments intelligently and quickly, etc.  The StB reaction to MU full court pressure was obviously practiced but also instinctual because they are good experienced players.  Nothing wrong with this loss. 

At the end of the season we'll look back having played 3 of the final four... StB, Nova, and UCLA.  I really believe that's how good those guys are.  Win the 2 home games against this group and its worth a tourney bid. 
"The meaning of life isn't gnashing our bicuspids over what comes after death but tasting the tiny moments that come before it."

 

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