Are we capable of pressing?

[MuggsyB]

I know it's one game but I don't see it.  And while we got 25 turns from a garbage team, that won't happen against good teams.  Additionally, our press led to more touch fouls, being out of position, and essentially was a complete s-show across the board.  It limits the effectiveness of our rim protection and basically SIUE got quality looks all night.  I'm wondering if this group wouldn't  be better served playing at a slower tempo in general?  I'm not talking molasses slow like Whisky but what the H is the hurry?  We have some athletes but not a burner with the rock . 

[DoctorV]

I know it's one game but I don't see it.  And while we got 25 turns from a garbage team, that won't happen against good teams.  Additionally, our press led to more touch fouls, being out of position, and essentially was a complete s-show across the board.  It limits the effectiveness of our rim protection and basically SIUE got quality looks all night.  I'm wondering if this group wouldn't  be better served playing at a slower tempo in general?  I'm not talking molasses slow like Whisky but what the H is the hurry?  We have some athletes but not a burner with the rock .

I would say yes, and I think it'll be a necessity versus Illinois next week.

The biggest benefit is the instant, and hopefully "easier" offense it should create. It is usually crowd momentum changing offense in the form of dunks or layups that is created, and that is always needed in a tough game versus a better opponent.

MU also has the length and individual instinctual defensive acumen to press successfully, with guys like Morsell, Kolek, Steve, Kam at G.

That said, I agree with your point that once the opposing team gets into its half court set MU needs to just settle down a bit defensively. They were way too helter skelter in traditional half court D and I was shocked how easily guys like Morsell and Kur seemed to be beaten off the dribble, way too much over commit.

There were so many times tonight where I just wished MU stayed in front of their guy and let SIUE chuck up a contested 3 or a reckless mid range shot or drive to the basket. They were 2 of 14 from 3 but somehow MU kept over committing and letting them get around the defender for an easy hoop, extremely annoying.

I don't think it was the press that let to the poor half court defense, I would say that it was more the continual over committing and over playing without regard to just playing sound D and staying in front of your guy.
It's like the negative extreme opposite of what we complained about with wojos defense that never committed to anything. Just have to find a middle ground

[MU82]

We'll see, Muggs.

Shaka wanted to use this game to try all kinds of stuff. I imagine the same will be true Friday. And then we'll see what he keeps when we start to play the big boys.

[MuggsyB]

I would say yes, and I think it'll be a necessity versus Illinois next week.

The biggest benefit is the instant, and hopefully "easier" offense it should create. It is usually crowd momentum changing offense in the form of dunks or layups that is created, and that is always needed in a tough game versus a better opponent.

MU also has the length and individual instinctual defensive acumen to press successfully, with guys like Morsell, Kolek, Steve, Kam at G.

That said, I agree with your point that once the opposing team gets into its half court set MU needs to just settle down a bit defensively. They were way too helter skelter in traditional half court D and I was shocked how easily guys like Morsell and Kur seemed to be beaten off the dribble, way too much over commit.

There were so many times tonight where I just wished MU stayed in front of their guy and let SIUE chuck up a contested 3 or a reckless mid range shot or drive to the basket. They were 2 of 14 from 3 but somehow MU kept over committing and letting them get around the defender for an easy hoop, extremely annoying.

I don't think it was the press that let to the poor half court defense, I would say that it was more the continual over committing and over playing without regard to just playing sound D and staying in front of your guy.
It's like the negative extreme opposite of what we complained about with wojos defense that never committed to anything. Just have to find a middle ground

Fair points.  But we have to eliminate the helter skelter/discombobulated problem. 

[RubyWiscy]

Patience. Let the process run its course. Very young team both age-wise and playing together. New culture and style. It will be very ugly at times. I recommend we keep our sights on conference play. If it is still this horrid then, I will join you in complaining very loudly.

[tower912]

This is how Shaka wants to play.  You may have noticed the team is young and inexperienced.   Perhaps that is a factor.

[Milkshakes]

Great post. I understand that they are young and that this is just one game. However, SIUE was really not bothered by the defense. They handled it really easily and if anything it often made it easier for them to score.  I just wonder if given the inexperience if this team would be more effective settling into a less demanding defensive scheme.  I don't even think Morsell was very effective defensively last night.

All that said super excited to see what Shaka will do and trust he knows what he is doing.

[tower912]

Everyone was excited about the prospect of MU playing pressure defense under Coach Smart.    I am, too.
We are excited about the all of the length and athleticism on the roster.    I am, too.
Too many are ignoring the nearly complete lack of experience at a high D1 level.    That is where I break.   Listen to Shaka.    The culture he wants to build at MU takes years.    He is starting with a nearly clean slate.   

This is the style of basketball Coach Smart wants to play.    He is doing it with a whole bunch of guys with very little D1 experience.    I have said for many months that this season will be about the process and not the W/L record.     I hold to that.    Improvement.   Development.   Lay the ground work.       

This is going to be very frustrating to some people, but this year we are going to have to watch the sausage being made.   

[rocky_warrior]

Tower, perhaps you mean inexperience with this system, but with Greg we have 3 very very experienced players (super seniors even), and then 3 guys with a year under their belt (Lewis, Kolek, OMP).  That's our core this year, and it's not young.

Now, I agree the "system" will take time to build, but blaming this on youth should not be the reason.

[tower912]

Kolek counts as experienced.   OMP averaged 10 minutes a game, or basically what Joplin did last night.     Lewis is semi-experienced.   Injuries hurt that  last year.     

With Greg out, no MU player had ever played a game at Fiserv with a crowd.   

Rocky, I completely disagree with you.    It is simply not logical to look at this roster and expect immediate cohesion, efficiency, and consistent production.     

Yes, the system will take time to build.   While simultaneously having players with little D1 experience thrust into roles that require production.   

[panda]

Tower, perhaps you mean inexperience with this system, but with Greg we have 3 very very experienced players (super seniors even), and then 3 guys with a year under their belt (Lewis, Kolek, OMP).  That's our core this year, and it's not young.

I agree.

This isn't 1994 college basketball. If MU is unsuccessful, it's because their talent level and improvement through the season isn't up to snuff. Not because they're young or a new team.

I'm on record saying this team will be much better than prognosticators expect. That will take contributions from a freshman or two, but otherwise we're leaning on proven D1 talents. Let's not pretend a majority of this team has never competed on the division 1 level before.

Now, I agree the "system" will take time to build, but blaming this on youth should not be the reason.

[PGsHeroes32]

Tower, perhaps you mean inexperience with this system, but with Greg we have 3 very very experienced players (super seniors even), and then 3 guys with a year under their belt (Lewis, Kolek, OMP).  That's our core this year, and it's not young.

Now, I agree the "system" will take time to build, but blaming this on youth should not be the reason.

This is not an experienced team.

I'll even add more to what Tower said

The guys you did call very experienced. Are all in very upgrades roles. Kuath has always been a role player. Morsell has never been a lead guy. Greg has about 10 injuries.

[Uncle Rico]

Teams with competent guards will tear the press apart. 

[tower912]

This is not an experienced team.

I'll even add more to what Tower said

The guys you did call very experienced. Are all in very upgrades roles. Kuath has always been a role player. Morsell has never been a lead guy. Greg has about 10 injuries.

Morsell had played 130ish games at Maryland.    Last night was his career high in points.   Lewis's first double double.   

[Goose]

There was nothing pretty about the game last night and difficult to watch. That said, there is no doubt in my mind that you stick with the press and continue to improve game to game. They style of player fits for pressing and it should improve. The flow of the game made it difficult for anything to work and they have to quit fouling nonstop.

Overall it was an ugly outing and it did appear to me that there were some opening night jitters. There likely will be more ugly outings, especially early on and we will see how they develop. I do not buy into the inexperience theory completely and guys need to get better and play smarter every game. I think there is enough talent on the team to be competitive down the road this season.

I hate to admit, I was jacked seeing Shaka on the sidelines and have complete confidence he will succeed at a high level at MU.

[Scoop Snoop]

There was nothing pretty about the game last night and difficult to watch. That said, there is no doubt in my mind that you stick with the press and continue to improve game to game. They style of player fits for pressing and it should improve. The flow of the game made it difficult for anything to work and they have to quit fouling nonstop.

Overall it was an ugly outing and it did appear to me that there were some opening night jitters. There likely will be more ugly outings, especially early on and we will see how they develop. I do not buy into the inexperience theory completely and guys need to get better and play smarter every game. I think there is enough talent on the team to be competitive down the road this season.

I hate to admit, I was jacked seeing Shaka on the sidelines and have complete confidence he will succeed at a high level at MU.

Considering that our opponent was 6-15 in conference last year and lost to a D2 team, there is no logical way to explain away last night's performance. I get Tower's frequent comments about experience but I think your comments about playing smarter are spot on. At one point a SIUE player calmly strolled almost all the way down the court right past our players. At another point, a missed shot by Marquette rebounded to an area of the court where three players were well positioned for the rebound. All wore red jerseys.

This season may be analogous to the first act of a two act play. Messy conflicts and struggles will be part of Act 1 and we may not be able to see them resolved until Act/Season 2. 

[avid1010]

Great post. I understand that they are young and that this is just one game. However, SIUE was really not bothered by the defense. They handled it really easily and if anything it often made it easier for them to score.  I just wonder if given the inexperience if this team would be more effective settling into a less demanding defensive scheme.  I don't even think Morsell was very effective defensively last night.

All that said super excited to see what Shaka will do and trust he knows what he is doing.

SIUE had 24 turnovers..I'm not saying that layups weren't conceded or fouls weren't an issue...but...

[tower912]

Considering that our opponent was 6-15 in conference last year and lost to a D2 team, there is no logical way to explain away last night's performance. I get Tower's frequent comments about experience but I think your comments about playing smarter are spot on.

Generally, older teams play smarter.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Considering that our opponent was 6-15 in conference last year and lost to a D2 team, there is no logical way to explain away last night's performance. I get Tower's frequent comments about experience but I think your comments about playing smarter are spot on. At one point a SIUE player calmly strolled almost all the way down the court right past our players. At another point, a missed shot by Marquette rebounded to an area of the court where three players were well positioned for the rebound. All wore red jerseys.

This season may be analogous to the first act of a two act play. Messy conflicts and struggles will be part of Act 1 and we may not be able to see them resolved until Act/Season 2.

You do realize that part of getting more experience is playing smarter more consistently right?

[Scoop Snoop]

You do realize that part of getting more experience is playing smarter more consistently right?

Of course!. My point was that considering the opponent, we should not have been outsmarted as often as we were. It's not as if we were up against a great team.

[RubyWiscy]

Last night Creighton won by 13, X by 3, Butler by 9, Prov by 7. Several of the teams were down in the 2nd half. Certainly the final score is irrelevant. I'm sure none of these teams are happy with their performance vs. a far inferior opponent. The point is these games pad the schedule and allow learning, experience and coaching points. No team has a bigger upside right now than MU. Let the process work.

That said, you do raise some good points that will be nteresting to watch. Can Smart adjust or will he be bullhead about his style?

[jficke13]

Last night Creighton won by 13, X by 3, Butler by 9, Prov by 7. Several of the teams were down in the 2nd half. Certainly the final score is irrelevant. I'm sure none of these teams are happy with their performance vs. a far inferior opponent. The point is these games pad the schedule and allow learning, experience and coaching points. No team has a bigger upside right now than MU. Let the process work.

That said, you do raise some good points that will be nteresting to watch. Can Smart adjust or will he be bullhead about his style?

We sort of did last night. He opened pressing, he shifted to dropping back into a more half-court oriented defensive set when SIUE was getting too good of looks after breaking the pressure or after MU racked up too many fouls early in the 2H. That alone suggests that Shaka is capable of adjusting.

[tower912]

When Morsell went out with his 4th under 5 minutes to go, MU actually went to a passive 1-3-1 zone for two possessions.   One turnover, and then a timeout. 

[MUfan12]

We sort of did last night. He opened pressing, he shifted to dropping back into a more half-court oriented defensive set when SIUE was getting too good of looks after breaking the pressure or after MU racked up too many fouls early in the 2H. That alone suggests that Shaka is capable of adjusting.

Yep, mentioned this in the other thread. And he threw some zone looks in as well.

The zone looked better than it did against Bowie, FWIW.

All the negatives from last night, with the possible exception of the 3PT shooting, it's all fixable. The team seems willing to learn and put the work in, so that's encouraging.

[tower912]

Absolutely.    The team played with energy and passion.   Attacked on both ends.   Shared the ball.    Those are the bedrocks to be built on.   
As the team gets more experienced, they will better understand how to defend without getting called for a foul.   
They will better understand where their help is.   
They will close out under control better.   
When their defense creates offense, I hope they start driving to the basket rather than immediately jacking up a 3.   Lots of opportunities missed with that last night.   
Rebounding needs to be addressed.