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Author Topic: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking  (Read 7926 times)

Avenue Commons

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Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« on: September 16, 2021, 02:23:00 PM »
Feels about right overall.

But are we behind Gonzaga, Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
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MU82

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2021, 02:55:40 PM »
Up from 88 last year, FWIW.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2021, 03:09:14 PM »
I just want to be top 75 again so this is a nice step in the right direction!
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TSmith34

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2021, 03:16:58 PM »
Feels about right overall.

But are we behind Gonzaga, Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
Santa Clara 55th...with a price tag as if it was top 20.
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Billy Hoyle

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2021, 03:49:41 PM »
I can't take any list seriously that doesn't put UW-Madison at #1 then ranks the others "everybody else."
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Skip Intro

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2021, 04:08:04 PM »
Feels about right overall.

But are we behind Gonzaga, Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

Not unlike HS player rankings, I think the actual number rankings don't matter as much as the "tier" you fall in.  When it comes to colleges, I think the top 10 are clearly elite, 11-30 are great (and probably no-brainers if you can get in).  Numbers 31-100 are all really good, but are a little more major-dependent than the top schools. 

I just made those tiers up - don't @ me, you get the point.  MU being in the top 100 is great, but whether they're 65th or 83rd probably isn't all that meaningful.   

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2021, 04:39:20 PM »
Strong placing.  Would love for us to be top-75, but the difference between 70 and 100 is very small honestly.  It's why we keep seesawing back and forth around our ranking. 

The Lens

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2021, 04:57:35 PM »
Strong placing.  Would love for us to be top-75, but the difference between 70 and 100 is very small honestly.  It's why we keep seesawing back and forth around our ranking. 

Top 77 is actually the true Power List. 
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94Warrior

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2021, 05:37:56 PM »
If comparing schools for the purpose of undergrad degree, these USNWR rankings might be more appropriate:

Marquette University
-
#58 in Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)

#54 in Best Value Schools


SaveOD238

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2021, 05:44:11 PM »
The vast majority of Marquette students come from the Chicago-Milwaukee urban area.   Within one state of Chicago are these schools.

6 University of Chicago
9 Northwestern
14 Wash U St Louis
19 Notre Dame
23 Michigan
42 Madison
47 Illinois
49 Purdue
68 Indiana
83 Marquette
83 Michigan State (tie)
83 Iowa
103 Loyola Chicago
103 St Louis
103 UIC
112 IIT
122 Iowa St
127 DePaul
136 Drake
148 Michigan Tech
172 Valparaiso
187 Detroit
196 IUPUI

Marquette will never keep up with the elite institutions like Chicago and Northwestern, or with the resources of the Big Ten research institutions (though we are tied/ahead of a few of them), but to be #2 among private, religious colleges on this list...that's exactly where Marquette wants to be.  20 spots ahead of SLU and LUC? 40+ ahead of DePaul, Drake, and Valpo?  That'll make the board and donors happy.


Uncle Rico

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2021, 07:34:29 PM »
Superbar
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

DFW HOYA

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2021, 07:37:31 PM »
The Big East list for national universities (Butler, PC, and Xavier are ranked regionally).

23. Georgetown
49. Villanova
63. Connecticut
83. Marquette
103. Creighton
127. DePaul
127. Seton Hall
172. St. John's

There's little change in the overall list over the years, although Villanova has certainly stepped up while St. John's continues to slowly drop down the rankings.


Galway Eagle

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2021, 07:55:42 PM »
The Big East list for national universities (Butler, PC, and Xavier are ranked regionally).

23. Georgetown
49. Villanova
63. Connecticut
83. Marquette
103. Creighton
127. DePaul
127. Seton Hall
172. St. John's

There's little change in the overall list over the years, although Villanova has certainly stepped up while St. John's continues to slowly drop down the rankings.

Well Nova and Creighton are new to national rankings right?
Maigh Eo for Sam

Disco Hippie

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2021, 08:14:12 PM »
Feels about right overall.

But are we behind Gonzaga, Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount?

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

I've come to the conclusion that these rankings are more of a popularity contest than anything else, but all in all I think MU had a decent showing this year and it seems about right.   The reason we've fallen behind a little from when we were ranked 75 eight or nine years ago, is because about 3 years ago, I believe just under 50 institutions that were previously in the  "Regional University" category jumped to the "National University" category because they advanced in the Carnegie Classification from an R3 institution to an R2 institution which is a higher classification of research activity.  MU made that same jump in 2012 or so I think.  Gonzaga, Santa Clara, LMU and Villanova were all among those 50 or so institutions that moved up from Regional to National Universities in 2018 I think it was. 

I don't know much about SCU, GU or LMU's student stats, but living on the East Coast where Villanova is very popular, their student stats are quite a bit higher than MU's and a lot of other schools in the top 100 as well, so I think just by virtue of that, they'd pretty much be guaranteed to be a top 50 school even when they advanced despite the fact they're now in the same category as many of the Big 10 Research schools.  I believe they were the #1 or 2 Regional when they were in that group.   Given how many really good schools made that jump, MU has still held better than I would have expected.  Sure they moved down a few notches, but so did a lot of schools.  Fordham took a similar hit for essentially the same reason, although they're still ranked ahead of us.   It's unfortunate that so many people still take these as seriously as they do but given the cost these days, I guess they have to.    I still think its a popularity contest and schools on the east coast have an unfair advantage for stupid reasons.

Does anyone else find it odd that in this year's rankings, the undergraduate business school was only ranked 106 despite having 3 undergrad programs ranked in the top 25 (Supply Chain, Accounting, and Finance).   Call me crazy but it seems to me any undergraduate business school with 3 Top 25 ranked majors, two of which are Accounting and Finance would be ranked much higher than 106 overall.   While I'm sure they're fine programs, something seems to be off here.  Just saying.   

Overall though, I'm not disappointed even though these don't really mean Jack.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 08:49:33 PM by Disco Hippie »

Warrior-Eagle

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2021, 08:51:16 PM »
I've come to the conclusion that these rankings are more of a popularity contest than anything else, but all in all I think MU had a decent showing this year and it seems about right.   The reason we've fallen behind a little from when we were ranked 75 eight or nine years ago, is because about 3 years ago, I believe just under 50 institutions that were previously in the  "Regional University" category jumped to the "National University" category because they advanced in the Carnegie Classification from an R3 institution to an R2 institution which is a higher classification of research activity.  MU made that same jump in 2012 or so I think.  Gonzaga, Santa Clara, LMU and Villanova were all among those 50 or so institutions that moved up from Regional to National Universities in 2018 I think it was. 

I don't know much about SCU, GU or LMU's student stats, but living on the East Coast where Villanova is very popular, their student stats are quite a bit higher than MU's and a lot of other schools in the top 100 as well, so I think just by virtue of that, they'd pretty much be guaranteed to be a top 50 school even when they advanced despite the fact they're now in the same category as many of the Big 10 Research schools.  I believe they were the #1 or 2 Regional when they were in that group.   Given how many really good schools made that jump, MU has still held better than I would have expected.  Sure they moved down a few notches, but so did a lot of schools.  Fordham took a similar hit for essentially the same reason, although they're still ranked ahead of us.   It's unfortunate that so many people still take these as seriously as they do but given the cost these days, I guess they have to.    I still think its a popularity contest and schools on the east coast have an unfair advantage for stupid reasons.

Does anyone else find it odd that in this year's rankings, the undergraduate business school was only ranked 106 despite having 3 programs in the top 25 (Supply Chain, Accounting, and Finance).   Call me crazy but it seems to me any undergraduate business school with 3 Top 25 ranked majors, two of which are Accounting and Finance would be ranked much higher than 106 overall.   While I'm sure they're fine programs, something seems to be off here.  Just saying.   

Overall though, I'm not disappointed even though these don't really mean Jack.


Disco... I agree that the on the surface the program rankings simply do not add up to the overall ranking for the University. In addition, the inclusion of once classified Regional Universities (including Villanova, Zags, LMU , six years ago) has skewed the results. So, what if I told you that the Popularity Rankings only account for 20% of the overall rankings. It is a fact. 40% of the Ranking is based on empirical and important outcomes including retention and graduation rates. For example MU SIX YR (not 4 year) graduation rates over the nearly last decade for MU has been 82% while Nova 90%. Gonzaga 86%, Santa Clara 89% and BC 93%. BTW our 4 yr Graduation rate hovers at 65%. So, a few years ago when the average freshman class was 2,000 student with a graduation rate in SIX years means only 1,600 students made it to the finish line.... My point is that the 80% empirical measures is the story of the rankings while the 20% Opinion Poll (supply chain ranking, accounting, real estate) do not move the ranking in a material way. Our highest rated College in the US News is Nursing at 43 which has been our MOST selective college in the last five years with the highest ACT scores and GPA at admission. Nursing is based on Popularity Rankings part of the rankings which aligns with Nursing demand at MU.I applaud MU for committing to double the enrollment of our highest ranked college with the greatest demand. The punchline is improve OUTCOMES not Opinions will change our rankings.

The Lens

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2021, 08:51:48 PM »
It does put it in perspective when we barely beat out Iowa.  America’s Safety School. 


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MU82

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2021, 09:13:17 PM »
The vast majority of Marquette students come from the Chicago-Milwaukee urban area.   Within one state of Chicago are these schools.

6 University of Chicago
9 Northwestern
14 Wash U St Louis
19 Notre Dame
23 Michigan
42 Madison
47 Illinois
49 Purdue
68 Indiana
83 Marquette
83 Michigan State (tie)
83 Iowa
103 Loyola Chicago
103 St Louis
103 UIC
112 IIT
122 Iowa St
127 DePaul
136 Drake
148 Michigan Tech
172 Valparaiso
187 Detroit
196 IUPUI

Marquette will never keep up with the elite institutions like Chicago and Northwestern, or with the resources of the Big Ten research institutions (though we are tied/ahead of a few of them), but to be #2 among private, religious colleges on this list...that's exactly where Marquette wants to be.  20 spots ahead of SLU and LUC? 40+ ahead of DePaul, Drake, and Valpo?  That'll make the board and donors happy.

Very good post. Thanks.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2021, 07:58:14 AM »

Disco... I agree that the on the surface the program rankings simply do not add up to the overall ranking for the University. In addition, the inclusion of once classified Regional Universities (including Villanova, Zags, LMU , six years ago) has skewed the results. So, what if I told you that the Popularity Rankings only account for 20% of the overall rankings. It is a fact. 40% of the Ranking is based on empirical and important outcomes including retention and graduation rates. For example MU SIX YR (not 4 year) graduation rates over the nearly last decade for MU has been 82% while Nova 90%. Gonzaga 86%, Santa Clara 89% and BC 93%. BTW our 4 yr Graduation rate hovers at 65%. So, a few years ago when the average freshman class was 2,000 student with a graduation rate in SIX years means only 1,600 students made it to the finish line.... My point is that the 80% empirical measures is the story of the rankings while the 20% Opinion Poll (supply chain ranking, accounting, real estate) do not move the ranking in a material way. Our highest rated College in the US News is Nursing at 43 which has been our MOST selective college in the last five years with the highest ACT scores and GPA at admission. Nursing is based on Popularity Rankings part of the rankings which aligns with Nursing demand at MU.I applaud MU for committing to double the enrollment of our highest ranked college with the greatest demand. The punchline is improve OUTCOMES not Opinions will change our rankings.


Just to clarify, the six year graduation rate is a snapshot of those who started as freshmen and graduated from Marquette within six years.  It does not include students who transfer out and graduate elsewhere, or those who transfer in and graduate from MU.  Including those who may transfer from a tech or community college.
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StillAWarrior

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2021, 08:51:14 AM »
My son's alma mater (Elon) remains tied with Marquette, so neither of us has bragging rights. But two of his little sisters are trash-talking us.
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Litehouse

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2021, 09:02:43 AM »

Just to clarify, the six year graduation rate is a snapshot of those who started as freshmen and graduated from Marquette within six years.  It does not include students who transfer out and graduate elsewhere, or those who transfer in and graduate from MU.  Including those who may transfer from a tech or community college.
It would be interesting to see the details behind the graduation rates.  Just from personal experience, Marquette's environment isn't for everyone, and a decent number of students realize that and transfer out after Freshman year.  Also, at least from my experience, MU has more of a focus than other schools on co-op and extended internship that push graduation beyond 4 years.  Plus, high tuition means 6 years isn't realistic.  I'd guess the 5yr grad rate is almost the same as the 6 yr grad rate.  I'd also guess the 5 yr grad rate of students that came back for their Soph. year is pretty high.


Finally, how good of a metric is grad rate?  Is it partially related to how easy the school is?

muwarrior69

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2021, 09:31:21 AM »
It amazes me that Princeton ranks so high. It neither has a law School or Medical School. It does have an outstanding Physics department and one of only a few Universities to have a tokamak fusion reactor. They are also a leader in Biomedical Engineering. That said many part time ad hoc professors that teach at Princeton also teach at our surrounding community colleges. Most of these professors have full time jobs at the many pharmaceutical companies within a 30 mile radius of Princeton. I guess I would be safe in saying that many of our two year community college students are getting the same education as a Princeton undergrad with the same instructor.

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2021, 09:31:41 AM »
It would be interesting to see the details behind the graduation rates.  Just from personal experience, Marquette's environment isn't for everyone, and a decent number of students realize that and transfer out after Freshman year.  Also, at least from my experience, MU has more of a focus than other schools on co-op and extended internship that push graduation beyond 4 years.  Plus, high tuition means 6 years isn't realistic.  I'd guess the 5yr grad rate is almost the same as the 6 yr grad rate.  I'd also guess the 5 yr grad rate of students that came back for their Soph. year is pretty high.


Finally, how good of a metric is grad rate?  Is it partially related to how easy the school is?


Marquette's grad rate is behind its peers.  And yeah some of that is because of the reasons you mention regarding the four year rate are legit, but a six year rate of 82% isn't bad.  But Nova's and Gonzaga's are really, really good. 

About three quarters of the students who leave will leave after the first year BTW.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Litehouse

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2021, 09:44:32 AM »
It amazes me that Princeton ranks so high. It neither has a law School or Medical School. It does have an outstanding Physics department and one of only a few Universities to have a tokamak fusion reactor. They are also a leader in Biomedical Engineering. That said many part time ad hoc professors that teach at Princeton also teach at our surrounding community colleges. Most of these professors have full time jobs at the many pharmaceutical companies within a 30 mile radius of Princeton. I guess I would be safe in saying that many of our two year community college students are getting the same education as a Princeton undergrad with the same instructor.
Well, it is just an undergrad ranking, so the lack of a law school and medical school don't matter.

Disco Hippie

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2021, 09:51:37 AM »
It would be interesting to see the details behind the graduation rates.  Just from personal experience, Marquette's environment isn't for everyone, and a decent number of students realize that and transfer out after Freshman year.  Also, at least from my experience, MU has more of a focus than other schools on co-op and extended internship that push graduation beyond 4 years.  Plus, high tuition means 6 years isn't realistic.  I'd guess the 5yr grad rate is almost the same as the 6 yr grad rate.  I'd also guess the 5 yr grad rate of students that came back for their Soph. year is pretty high.


Finally, how good of a metric is grad rate?  Is it partially related to how easy the school is?

Great point.  The urban environment definitely isn't for everyone.  I was an anomaly and only wanted to attend and only applied to urban schools.  The gritter the neighborhood the better, and MU was a lot gritter then than it is now.  It's still a pretty urban campus though.   I can't explain why but my thought process at the time was if a campus had grass, I had no interest in going there.   Most students want the opposite and I'm guessing that's still true today.

GOO

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2021, 10:26:00 AM »
If comparing schools for the purpose of undergrad degree, these USNWR rankings might be more appropriate:

Marquette University
-
#58 in Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)

#54 in Best Value Schools

Ranking are important for schools regardless of how well they actually work, and I agree that for undergrads, the undergraduate teaching ranking is something to look at...
But, it is kind of strange that Marquette was 18 last year for undergraduate teaching, and now we are 58?  I don't think that much has changed in a year, expect the fallibility and mercurial nature of these of rankings.