Author Topic: 2021 NBA Draft (Read 14531 times)

MU82 · « **Reply #75 on:** July 23, 2021, 10:33:00 AM »

Quote from: MUBurrow on July 23, 2021, 09:25:33 AM

I think Hauser is a "better athlete" compared to Novak in the sense that he was a more versatile college player taking guys off the dribble and functioning in space. But he's not a better athlete by a wide enough margin or in the ways that matter from an NBA perspective. Sam is not taking a soul off the dribble in the league and he'll be a defensive liability. Sam also gives up two inches to Novak, some lbs (though that could be rectified) and has a slower release. Ultimately Sam's role in the NBA would be to stretch defenses and stand in the corner, same as Novak, and he's worse than Novak on the things that matter for that role.

Hauser being a better athlete than Novak will make him slightly less of a defensive liability. It would be difficult to find a worse defender than Novak, who was slow, bolted to the ground and skinny. Hauser always was a good help defender, both at Marquette and Virginia, and that also will serve him well in the NBA.

FWIW, I just saw this on The Athletic, which got anonymous coaches and scouts to rate prospects:

Sam Hauser, Virginia

College head coach 1 (his team played Virginia): Interesting. I don’t know. He can make 3s, he’s got good range, good size, he’ll defend a little bit. I don’t think he’s a three and he’s too small to be a four.

Again, we'll see! In the not-too-distant future, we won't have to debate this -- just as it became unnecessary to debate whether Markus would get an NBA look ... because Markus did. Hauser will or he won't, and we'll know.

forgetful · « **Reply #76 on:** July 23, 2021, 12:53:33 PM »

Quote from: jficke13 on July 23, 2021, 09:09:28 AM

Right, because defense, shot selection, context all aren't necessarily captured in the statistic. But, when literally the only thing that's being asked is: "Who ya got if you get murdered if your choice can't hit a 3?" then all that context is stripped out of the analysis. At that point you actually revert to a pure numerical analysis.

Or. Whatever. It's your fictional life on the line, so if you wanna be a tough guy no nerdy-nerds with their nerdy numbers allowed and go with your gut, by all means. It's a message board, so have at man.

They actually aren't at all. Curry is expected to create his own shot, is defended by 2 sometimes 3 players, who grab and hold him incessantly. He also sometimes has to take 30+ footers and shoots 3x the volume of someone like Joe Harris, who is a spot of 3-pt shooter often taking wide open 3's (or he passes it off).

Joe Harris has a higher 3-point percentage, but any expert is going to tell you that Curry is the better shooter.

The same logic is why experts universally have Bird near the tops all time, these experts break down all the factors, not just a blanket statistic.

I'm not being a "tough guy" or "going with my gut"...I'm going with the experts that analyze this crap inside and out for a living. Because they do know better than a random message board dude.

Jockey · « **Reply #77 on:** July 23, 2021, 01:17:15 PM »

Quote from: forgetful on July 23, 2021, 12:53:33 PM

They actually aren't at all. Curry is expected to create his own shot, is defended by 2 sometimes 3 players, who grab and hold him incessantly. He also sometimes has to take 30+ footers and shoots 3x the volume of someone like Joe Harris, who is a spot of 3-pt shooter often taking wide open 3's (or he passes it off).

Joe Harris has a higher 3-point percentage, but any expert is going to tell you that Curry is the better shooter.

The same logic is why experts universally have Bird near the tops all time, these experts break down all the factors, not just a blanket statistic.

I'm not being a "tough guy" or "going with my gut"...I'm going with the experts that analyze this crap inside and out for a living. Because they do know better than a random message board dude.

100% correct.

Craig Hodges was a great 3 point shooter (I think he won the 3 point contest 3 times), but almost all were wide open “practice” shots.

Steph, Kyrie, Dame, etc., do it off the dribble with a hand in the face.

Silkk the Shaka · « **Reply #78 on:** July 23, 2021, 01:57:58 PM »

Thoughts on Scottie Barnes? Seems like he has Kawhi/Pippen type ceiling

Plus athlete across the board with great measurables, has a quiet impact on games / doesn't need to ball-dominate to be a major contributor to the win... seems like he has the highest floor but also a crazy high ceiling if he can get his outside shot to fall.

Would be a great fit for a team like Golden State, kinda like Kawhi joining established stars on the spurs then growing into a starring role himself - but probably no chance he falls to 7 right?

Jockey · « **Reply #79 on:** July 23, 2021, 02:31:33 PM »

Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on July 23, 2021, 01:57:58 PM

Thoughts on Scottie Barnes? Seems like he has Kawhi/Pippen type ceiling

Plus athlete across the board with great measurables, has a quiet impact on games / doesn't need to ball-dominate to be a major contributor to the win... seems like he has the highest floor but also a crazy high ceiling if he can get his outside shot to fall.

Would be a great fit for a team like Golden State, kinda like Kawhi joining established stars on the spurs then growing into a starring role himself - but probably no chance he falls to 7 right?

Can't shoot 3s, no mid-range shot and not great at taking it to the hoop. Reminds me of Michael Kidd Gilchrist.

I see no comparison to Kawhi. Just my opinion.

Silkk the Shaka · « **Reply #80 on:** July 23, 2021, 02:45:12 PM »

Quote from: Jockey on July 23, 2021, 02:31:33 PM

Can't shoot 3s, no mid-range shot and not great at taking it to the hoop. Reminds me of Michael Kidd Gilchrist.

I see no comparison to Kawhi. Just my opinion.

Yeah I could see MKG being his floor, peaking out at a 10 & 7 type guy with good defense & significantly better passing. Another difference between the two is Barnes is more quick than fast, while MKG was more fast than quick. The former translates better to the league. Getting that shot to start falling is obviously the upside piece.

I'm very intrigued by him though, especially if he can find his way onto a winning team that had a bit of rough luck. Mask the deficiencies early.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape · « **Reply #81 on:** July 23, 2021, 02:47:33 PM »

Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on July 23, 2021, 01:57:58 PM

Thoughts on Scottie Barnes? Seems like he has Kawhi/Pippen type ceiling

Plus athlete across the board with great measurables, has a quiet impact on games / doesn't need to ball-dominate to be a major contributor to the win... seems like he has the highest floor but also a crazy high ceiling if he can get his outside shot to fall.

Would be a great fit for a team like Golden State, kinda like Kawhi joining established stars on the spurs then growing into a starring role himself - but probably no chance he falls to 7 right?

Barnes has risen up draft boards and his draft range is 4-6.

Pippen is an interesting comparison. Point Forward and an ace defender are roles Barnes projects to play. Barnes is just an ok rebounder, so Pippen has an edge there. Like you said, the key for Barnes will be his jumpshot. Without that, he's more like Ben Simmons.

I don't think he ends up being as good a Pippen, but I can't entirely rule that out either. I think it's more likely that Barnes is a Draymond Green level player, minus the rebounding.

Jockey · « **Reply #82 on:** July 23, 2021, 03:15:38 PM »

Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on July 23, 2021, 02:45:12 PM

Yeah I could see MKG being his floor, peaking out at a 10 & 7 type guy with good defense & significantly better passing. Another difference between the two is Barnes is more quick than fast, while MKG was more fast than quick. The former translates better to the league. Getting that shot to start falling is obviously the upside piece.

I'm very intrigued by him though, especially if he can find his way onto a winning team that had a bit of rough luck. Mask the deficiencies early.

I don't disagree with your assessment.

Lennys Tap · « **Reply #83 on:** July 23, 2021, 04:58:55 PM »

Quote from: Lazar's Headband on July 23, 2021, 02:47:33 PM

I don't think he ends up being as good a Pippen, but I can't entirely rule that out either. I think it's more likely that Barnes is a Draymond Green level player, minus the rebounding.

Isn’t Pippen top 50 all time? I think he has a better chance to be a bust than to be Scottie Pippen.

forgetful · « **Reply #84 on:** July 23, 2021, 05:09:26 PM »

Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on July 23, 2021, 01:57:58 PM

Thoughts on Scottie Barnes? Seems like he has Kawhi/Pippen type ceiling

Plus athlete across the board with great measurables, has a quiet impact on games / doesn't need to ball-dominate to be a major contributor to the win... seems like he has the highest floor but also a crazy high ceiling if he can get his outside shot to fall.

Would be a great fit for a team like Golden State, kinda like Kawhi joining established stars on the spurs then growing into a starring role himself - but probably no chance he falls to 7 right?

My main thoughts are that this shows why: 1) I am not employed as an evaluator of NBA talent. 2) Why I'm glad I don't have to figure out who to draft.

I trust the people in the war rooms figuring out who fits best, but most of these efforts are trying to project out the ceiling of an unproven player. My guess, is they hope the ceiling is a Pippen-esque player, and the floor is a role player that can come off the bench and provide energy.

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #85 on:** July 23, 2021, 05:25:14 PM »

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 23, 2021, 04:58:55 PM

Isn’t Pippen top 50 all time? I think he has a better chance to be a bust than to be Scottie Pippen.

Yes, easily top 50, likely the first half.

MuggsyB · « **Reply #86 on:** July 23, 2021, 05:47:20 PM »

Quote from: forgetful on July 23, 2021, 12:53:33 PM

They actually aren't at all. Curry is expected to create his own shot, is defended by 2 sometimes 3 players, who grab and hold him incessantly. He also sometimes has to take 30+ footers and shoots 3x the volume of someone like Joe Harris, who is a spot of 3-pt shooter often taking wide open 3's (or he passes it off).

Superb analysis. There really isn't a spot on the floor within 30 feet that Curry isn't proficient. Whether it be off the bounce or spot shooting.

Joe Harris has a higher 3-point percentage, but any expert is going to tell you that Curry is the better shooter.

The same logic is why experts universally have Bird near the tops all time, these experts break down all the factors, not just a blanket statistic.

I'm not being a "tough guy" or "going with my gut"...I'm going with the experts that analyze this crap inside and out for a living. Because they do know better than a random message board dude.

Billy Hoyle · « **Reply #87 on:** July 23, 2021, 07:44:43 PM »

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 23, 2021, 05:25:14 PM

Yes, easily top 50, likely the first half.

Pippin didn’t win anything without Jordan. The ultimate coattails guy.

Its DJOver · « **Reply #88 on:** July 23, 2021, 07:51:59 PM »

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 23, 2021, 07:44:43 PM

Pippin didn’t win anything without Jordan. The ultimate coattails guy.

Should that effect his being a top 50 all time player? I haven't put together a list, but I'd be willing to bet, if I did, I'd have more than a few players in the top 50 that haven't won anything.

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #89 on:** July 23, 2021, 09:28:31 PM »

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 23, 2021, 07:44:43 PM

Pippin didn’t win anything without Jordan. The ultimate coattails guy.

Jordan didn't win anything without Pippin. The ultimate coattails guy.

See how stupid you sound here?

Lennys Tap · « **Reply #90 on:** July 23, 2021, 10:00:43 PM »

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on July 23, 2021, 07:44:43 PM

Pippin didn’t win anything without Jordan. The ultimate coattails guy.

Nash, Ewing, Iverson, Barkley, Stockton, English, Vince Carter, Paul, Dominique, R Miller and Gervin never won one period. Oscar won 1 but never without Kareem. West won 1, never without Wilt. I could go on and on but you get my drift.

Pippen won 6. The same as Jordan. Neither won without the other, though Pippen came closer without Mike than the other way around. A great, great player.

Juan Anderson's Mixtape · « **Reply #91 on:** July 24, 2021, 12:43:06 AM »

Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 23, 2021, 04:58:55 PM

Isn’t Pippen top 50 all time? I think he has a better chance to be a bust than to be Scottie Pippen.

Of course. Pippen is a HOF player. Barnes will need exponential growth to reach that level.

There is a much better chance Barnes is a total bust or middle of the road player.

Autoengineer · « **Reply #92 on:** July 24, 2021, 04:36:50 PM »

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on July 23, 2021, 09:28:31 PM

Jordan didn't win anything without Pippin. The ultimate coattails guy.

See how stupid you sound here?

Sure glad you continue to monitor Muscoop for comment accuracy. 5000+ posts and counting. Do you have a life away from a computer? Are you one of those incels I’ve read about?

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #93 on:** July 24, 2021, 06:28:08 PM »

Quote from: Autoengineer on July 24, 2021, 04:36:50 PM

Sure glad you continue to monitor Muscoop for comment accuracy. 5000+ posts and counting. Do you have a life away from a computer? Are you one of those incels I’ve read about?

Oooooo this should be fun. Wonder who this could be. Why did my comment cut so deeply? It wasn't even directed at you. hmmmmmmmm.

Additionally, I'm not even close to the highest post count people around these parts. Pretty weird that you'd call everyone with higher post counts than me incels that have no life. hmmmmmm

What a mystery!

edit: The best part is that 100% of your posts since March directly quote me every time. Pretty weird man, pretty weird.

MU82 · « **Reply #94 on:** July 27, 2021, 02:43:05 PM »

The Athletic is out with its "consensus" Big Board -- "ranking the prospects in this draft based on the aggregate of 15 different draft boards":

Marquette: 82, Carton.

Top 5: Cunningham ... Green ... Mobley ... Suggs ... Barnes.

Big East: 7, Bouknight ... 46, Robinson-Earl ... 61, Duke ... 64, Mamukelashvili ... 73, Zegarowski ... 82, Carton.

Others of Interest: 15, Jalen Johnson ... 34, Grimes ... 59, Garza ... 66, Hauser.

DegenerateDish · « **Reply #95 on:** July 28, 2021, 06:00:17 PM »

My kids & I are in NYC, all the NBA draft entrants are staying at our hotel. Just shared an elevator with Jalen Johnson.

4everwarriors · « **Reply #96 on:** July 28, 2021, 08:22:37 PM »

CBS Sports has Sam going to da Knicks in da 2nd rd. Just sayin', hey?

MuggsyB · « **Reply #97 on:** July 28, 2021, 08:43:29 PM »

Draft sleepers?? Moses Moody?

MU82 · « **Reply #98 on:** July 28, 2021, 09:47:31 PM »

Quote from: 4everwarriors on July 28, 2021, 08:22:37 PM

CBS Sports has Sam going to da Knicks in da 2nd rd. Just sayin', hey?

Wouldn’t surprise me one iota.

JWags85 · « **Reply #99 on:** July 28, 2021, 10:36:41 PM »

Quote from: MuggsyB on July 28, 2021, 08:43:29 PM

Draft sleepers?? Moses Moody?

Not sure how a consensus top 10 pick is a sleeper. Moody has some nice potential but he needs the right situation.

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Author Topic: 2021 NBA Draft (Read 14531 times)