collapse

* Resources


UDM 4

* 2020-2021 SOTG Tally


2020-21 Season SoG Tally
Cain3
Carton3
Garcia3
Lewis2
John1
McEwen1

'19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking by TAMU Eagle
[Today at 04:04:14 PM]


NM by GooooMarquette
[Today at 11:14:39 AM]


Recruiting as of 8/15/21 by Herman Cain
[September 17, 2021, 09:01:35 PM]


2021-22 Non-Conference Schedule by GooooMarquette
[September 17, 2021, 05:49:33 PM]


Ability to attend games in-person next season by Ardmore Mug
[September 17, 2021, 03:22:20 PM]


Our 5 yr plan? by Uncle Rico
[September 17, 2021, 07:50:10 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: The long cold summer

Marquette
Marquette

Madness

Date/Time: Oct 15, 2021, 6:00pm?
TV: NA
Schedule for 2019-20
13-14

Author Topic: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings  (Read 6395 times)

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6102
  • Send it in...medium-sized fella!!
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2021, 01:52:05 PM »
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this


Primarily a poor coach.  Let's not overthink this.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Skip Intro

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2021, 01:58:48 PM »
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this

"Old" vs. "New" Big East wasn't the cause of only 2 tourney trips in 8 years.  If anything, it should be easier to get into the tourney now. 

Now, you could make an argument that the Old BE was such a tough conference that all teams entered the tourney well-primed for competition.  Then again the recent sample size (for MU, at least) is so small that I don't know if that theory would hold up, particularly with Nova's success. 

I suspect the true answer to "Why is this" has a lot more to do with one man's system than conference membership.

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8751
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2021, 02:02:54 PM »
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this

Top Reasons for 2/8 years

1.  Bad coach hire, had high floor but low ceiling.

2. RPI & Covid, the 2018 year we would've been in using NET & Covid took a year we were a lock. 4/8 is much better.

3. Not getting old, Burton leaves, Duane leaves, Henry leaves, Haani leaves, both Hausers leave, Bailey leaves, everyone expected to be a key player left before we could get to the next tier.
Maigh Eo for Sam

Dawson Rental

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10440
  • I prefer a team that's eligible, not paid for
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2021, 03:11:12 PM »
All true, but I as referring specifically to this coming season at Marquette. A season saver transfer would, I think, be probably be looking at only one year. Once Shaka has established MU as a solid, competitive team sure, he can sell players on his success of getting players into the NBA. My point is simply that this is probably not the best year for his helping a player getting into the NBA.

When is there a better opportunity than with a young team?  Great chance to lead the way.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

MarquetteMike1977

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1053
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2021, 04:08:32 PM »
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this
Our Coaching Job was not as in demand when we joined the New Big East. But our Marquette Coaching job is in Demand now.

MarquetteMike1977

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1053
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2021, 04:10:24 PM »
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this

We should not change or switch conferences. Am not blaming it on the conference, am saying the only other option would have been to accept and not decline ESPN’s crappy deal to remain with CUSE , UConn, Cincy eight to ten years ago in a hybrid conference. Add some crappy football teams. Agree It would have been a crappier conference but “We would of had more power within it” Agree  that ship has sailed and agree we should remain in the New Big East.

MarquetteMike1977

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1053
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #81 on: June 15, 2021, 04:12:21 PM »
Old Big East 8 Years 8 Tourneys 9 Big Dance Wins. New Big East 8 Years 2 Tourneys 0 Big Dance Wins. Why is this
Alright it had nothing to do with the conference change.

fjm

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2650
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2021, 04:16:06 PM »
Alright it had nothing to do with the conference change.

You crack me up man. Haha.
Responded to your own question 3 different times in 4 minutes. Haha. Keep it up.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16767
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2021, 07:58:04 PM »
We should not change or switch conferences. Am not blaming it on the conference, am saying the only other option would have been to accept and not decline ESPN’s crappy deal to remain with CUSE , UConn, Cincy eight to ten years ago in a hybrid conference. Add some crappy football teams. Agree It would have been a crappier conference but “We would of had more power within it” Agree  that ship has sailed and agree we should remain in the New Big East.

Dribble.
“There is so much loss here, and so much of it is preventable. When the vaccines came out in December, those of us in health care were like, ’Oh, my God, it’s like the cavalry coming over the hill. ... To see now what’s playing out? It’s all so needless.”

-- Boise hospital director Jim Souza

Scoop Snoop

  • Team Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 451
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2021, 09:21:02 PM »
When is there a better opportunity than with a young team?  Great chance to lead the way.

Agree with the being the star on a young team, but I think Shaka will be too busy getting the team to understand his system and also with 5 freshman coming in, he's got his hands full. That's all I'm saying. Season #2 for Shaka he should be well positioned to both have his system in place and feature a star, NBA grade player in it. Possible this year? Sure, but to repeat- I do not think this is the best year for an NBA bound player on Marquette's team to raise his profile.
"Your words don't mean anything to me. Argument doesn't have any effect on me."
Doc Burton: "I wasn't arguing. I was asking for information. All of you people get angry when you're asked a question."
                                           
                Excerpt from a Steinbeck novel.

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #85 on: June 16, 2021, 10:47:43 AM »
IMHO it seemed Buzz was let down with the breakup of the old BEAST and the formation of the new.  Maybe not up to what it needed to be to get Buzz motivated to perform at the level he had in the old BEAST.  Perhaps one of the reasons he bolted to Virginia Tech and the ACC?  In Buzz's eyes, at VT back in the premier college BB conference and a major spot light?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 02:33:40 PM by NCMUFan »

The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4081
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #86 on: June 16, 2021, 10:56:09 AM »
IMHO it seemed Buzz was let down with the breakup of the old BEAST and the formation of the new.  Maybe not up to what it needed to be get Buzz motivated to perform at the level he had in the old BEAST.  Perhaps one of the reasons he bolted to Virginia Tech and the ACC?  In Buzz's eyes, at VT back in the premier college BB conference and a major spot light?

 I don't really blame him.  He had just gone 14-4, 14-4 in the SEC Football of college hoops.  Can't fault him for worrying that he was headed to JV.  Let's face it Nova was not Nova in 2013 and the cream of the Big East was leaving and being back filled with solid programs from the A-10 & Mo Valley.  It has turned out great (despite Gtown and St. John's struggles) but I think we all probably had some doubts. 
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car    ---- Dr. Blackheart

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 16767
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #87 on: June 16, 2021, 11:06:42 AM »
I don't really blame him.  He had just gone 14-4, 14-4 in the SEC Football of college hoops.  Can't fault him for worrying that he was headed to JV.  Let's face it Nova was not Nova in 2013 and the cream of the Big East was leaving and being back filled with solid programs from the A-10 & Mo Valley.  It has turned out great (despite Gtown and St. John's struggles) but I think we all probably had some doubts.

I honestly can't remember if I had doubts or not, but what I did know was that it was the only viable solution for Marquette, so I was all-in on it.

I think what a couple others have theorized about the Big East thing being a smokescreen for Buzz -- who actually bolted because he was p-o-ed at MU leadership -- makes a lot of sense.
“There is so much loss here, and so much of it is preventable. When the vaccines came out in December, those of us in health care were like, ’Oh, my God, it’s like the cavalry coming over the hill. ... To see now what’s playing out? It’s all so needless.”

-- Boise hospital director Jim Souza

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8751
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2021, 11:16:22 AM »
I don't really blame him.  He had just gone 14-4, 14-4 in the SEC Football of college hoops.  Can't fault him for worrying that he was headed to JV.  Let's face it Nova was not Nova in 2013 and the cream of the Big East was leaving and being back filled with solid programs from the A-10 & Mo Valley.  It has turned out great (despite Gtown and St. John's struggles) but I think we all probably had some doubts.

Nova was 4 years from a final four and 3 years from a 2 seed. Georgetown had just been co big East champions, Xavier was a huge get that was more than solid from the A10, that's basically saying if we plugged in Gonzaga they'd be a solid program from the WCC, Butler was 2 years removed from back to back finals appearances (and had the top up and coming coach at the time). I had my doubts on Creighton once they'd lose Doug along with PC, SHU, SJU, DPU all struggling at the time but it was far from a conference for him to thumb his nose at, especially after struggling in his lone year at it.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 11:27:01 AM by Galway Eagle »
Maigh Eo for Sam

Fluffy Blue Monster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 6102
  • Send it in...medium-sized fella!!
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2021, 11:25:36 AM »
I don't really blame him.  He had just gone 14-4, 14-4 in the SEC Football of college hoops.  Can't fault him for worrying that he was headed to JV.  Let's face it Nova was not Nova in 2013 and the cream of the Big East was leaving and being back filled with solid programs from the A-10 & Mo Valley.  It has turned out great (despite Gtown and St. John's struggles) but I think we all probably had some doubts. 


Is going from one of the top teams in the new Big East to a middling, also ran in the ACC really a good move though?  Conference affiliation is important, but it's not everything.

My guess is that if Buzz were happy with MU's leadership, he would have stayed.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Dawson Rental

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10440
  • I prefer a team that's eligible, not paid for
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2021, 12:53:00 PM »

Is going from one of the top teams in the new Big East to a middling, also ran in the ACC really a good move though?  Conference affiliation is important, but it's not everything.

My guess is that if Buzz were happy with MU's leadership, he would have stayed.

Agree.  If Virginia Tech was such a draw for Buzz, why would he have left there as well?  Particularly after they pretty much let him write his own contract with them.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

Quote from: muguru
No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2021, 02:49:58 PM »
It probably wasn't a single factor but the sum of them all.

Herman Cain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9360
  • 9-9-9
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #92 on: June 16, 2021, 03:19:42 PM »

Is going from one of the top teams in the new Big East to a middling, also ran in the ACC really a good move though?  Conference affiliation is important, but it's not everything.

My guess is that if Buzz were happy with MU's leadership, he would have stayed.
I agree with this analysis.
Old Spice Moisturize with Shea Butter Body Wash is a great product

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srXChURjbqI

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1683
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #93 on: June 16, 2021, 03:37:29 PM »
So you don't believe Buzz felt any pressure regarding job security?
Do you believe the players that Buzz would of retained or gained would have provided him future success at MU?

Galway Eagle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8751
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #94 on: June 16, 2021, 03:45:42 PM »
So you don't believe Buzz felt any pressure regarding job security?
Do you believe the players that Buzz would of retained or gained would have provided him future success at MU?

Well idk who we would've added in the following classes but it comes down to could he have worked with Burton, JJJ, Duane and Fischer better than Wojo did. And would Shayok and Hill have both trended the same way? I tend to believe he would not have done better with the 13 class or Sandy. Shayok and Hill probably end up the same. Noskowiak (if he ends up here) becomes yet another insane Buzz recruit.

Who knows what Juco or transfer gems Buzz gets or if he closes the deal with Stone.
Maigh Eo for Sam

Herman Cain

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9360
  • 9-9-9
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #95 on: June 16, 2021, 04:12:49 PM »
Well idk who we would've added in the following classes but it comes down to could he have worked with Burton, JJJ, Duane and Fischer better than Wojo did. And would Shayok and Hill have both trended the same way? I tend to believe he would not have done better with the 13 class or Sandy. Shayok and Hill probably end up the same. Noskowiak (if he ends up here) becomes yet another insane Buzz recruit.

Who knows what Juco or transfer gems Buzz gets or if he closes the deal with Stone.
Lets say he does the same with the 13 class <and was able to keep McKay, and Shayok and Hill show up. That is a pretty good lineup.
Old Spice Moisturize with Shea Butter Body Wash is a great product

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srXChURjbqI

dad's couch

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #96 on: June 16, 2021, 04:18:19 PM »
Buzz wanted out. He used the break up of the Big East as an excuse. Remember he was connected with the S. Florida job. I thought it was crazy when I heard that but it turned out he was interested. He ended up at VT because Cronin is a good friend and the Cincy AD just got hired there. A con man.

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9776
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #97 on: June 16, 2021, 04:31:57 PM »
Well idk who we would've added in the following classes but it comes down to could he have worked with Burton, JJJ, Duane and Fischer better than Wojo did. And would Shayok and Hill have both trended the same way? I tend to believe he would not have done better with the 13 class or Sandy. Shayok and Hill probably end up the same. Noskowiak (if he ends up here) becomes yet another insane Buzz recruit.

Who knows what Juco or transfer gems Buzz gets or if he closes the deal with Stone.

MU was also a finalist (and maybe a lean) with Charles Matthews who was a late February commit, supposedly due to getting his academics in order.

This is just me spitballing this one but I always thought this was the last straw for Buzz. With Pilarz and Larry Williams gone, Buzz supposedly went to Wild and Cords and asked a for a return to the previous academic standards, and they told him wait for the new regime. Cal swooped in with Streets and said Buzz is gone, the NBE is weak, etc.  I think this was actually when Buzz threw in the towel. Things that were bad, then went to worse within the program. MU didn’t win a game after Matthews committed to UK.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 04:34:27 PM by Dr. Blackheart »

harryp

  • Registered User
  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 192
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #98 on: June 24, 2021, 11:24:36 PM »
I think that if Garcia was planning to return we would know by now.

bilsu

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8129
Re: The Athletic Early Big East Rankings
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2021, 02:47:22 PM »
I think that if Garcia was planning to return we would know by now.
I felt he was not returning to college when he did not put his name in the transfer portal. I am not saying he would not return to MU in the end. It just makes sense that with a new coach, you would explore your options. In my mind Garcia coming back was never an option, because he is done with college.