No Time for Rebuilding?

[f/k/a humanlung]

Why does it seem so many want/expect a possible NCAA bid next year? 

Doesn't Shaka get a year or two to "grow up" this new group of players (similar to what KO did during the last rebuild)?

[wadesworld]

I want an NCAA Tournament bid next year because it's much more fun watching a team win than it is watching a team lose, and you need to win games to get to the NCAA Tournament.

[brewcity77]

Why does it seem so many want/expect a possible NCAA bid next year? 

Doesn't Shaka get a year or two to "grow up" this new group of players (similar to what KO did during the last rebuild)?

Want? Because we haven't had NCAA success since Buzz left, and we are anxious for it. I also think because the excitement level around the program skyrocketed with Smart's announcement as it seems like that serendipitous fit we have been waiting for since...well, #DoneDeal went viral.

Expect? I don't think everyone expects it, but I think the initial expectation that our three best players would be back along with the hope for high-major starting level players like Kuath, Kolek, and (fingers crossed) Morsell and a deep recruiting class that will at least be able to contribute make it a realistic goal.

I do think Shaka will get time to grow up regardless, and if Garcia and Carton both depart (and Morsell doesn't come) expectations will be realistically reset. I also think having 10 underclassmen will lead most to look at 2022-23 and beyond as the time this team will peak. But it's the offseason, so why not choose optimism and hope as opposed to pessimism?

[muwarrior69]

Want? Because we haven't had NCAA success since Buzz left, and we are anxious for it. I also think because the excitement level around the program skyrocketed with Smart's announcement as it seems like that serendipitous fit we have been waiting for since...well, #DoneDeal went viral.

Expect? I don't think everyone expects it, but I think the initial expectation that our three best players would be back along with the hope for high-major starting level players like Kuath, Kolek, and (fingers crossed) Morsell and a deep recruiting class that will at least be able to contribute make it a realistic goal.

I do think Shaka will get time to grow up regardless, and if Garcia and Carton both depart (and Morsell doesn't come) expectations will be realistically reset. I also think having 10 underclassmen will lead most to look at 2022-23 and beyond as the time this team will peak. But it's the offseason, so why not choose optimism and hope as opposed to pessimism?

Don't you know that pessimists are the only true optimists.

[shoothoops]

Why does it seem so many want/expect a possible NCAA bid next year? 

Doesn't Shaka get a year or two to "grow up" this new group of players (similar to what KO did during the last rebuild)?

I expect Marquette to be an (almost) annual NCAA Tournament team. I believe it is a reasonable expectation for Marquette's program.

Each new head coach will get a "fair" chance to be successful. (number of years with progress along the way)

Different head coaches have different paths to success, and longer term sustained success. Some take a straight path, some take a more immediate quicker path, some take a slower several year path, some have success, then fall back and regain longer term success.

(Comparing eras is apples to oranges, as many circumstances are vastly different. K.O. entered a situation with far fewer resources and much less recent success than Smart for example)

[Coleman]

Most people want an NCAA bid next year.

I think few people expect it.

[Uncle Rico]

Most people want an NCAA bid next year.

I think few people expect it.

Anything short of it is a failure.  Al McGuire never missed the NCAA Tournament

[tower912]

Started a whole thread about process versus outcomes.    I do not see how the roster as currently constructed makes the tourney.   I want to see development.

[Marquette Overload]

Anything short of it is a failure.  Al McGuire never missed the NCAA Tournament

(I know you are joking but cheap plug opportunity...)

Al McGuire made the NCAA Tournament in 9 of his 13 seasons at Marquette. 

Find this information at muoverload.com > Players/Coaches > Head Coaches.

[cheebs09]

Anything short of it is a failure.  Al McGuire never missed the NCAA Tournament

Only when he chose to.

[Galway Eagle]

(I know you are joking but cheap plug opportunity...)

Al McGuire made the NCAA Tournament in 9 of his 13 seasons at Marquette. 

Find this information at muoverload.com > Players/Coaches > Head Coaches.

Technically he made it 10 and decided to attend 9

[CountryRoads]

IMO, I see many people way overestimating what it takes to make the NCAA tournament. There are average teams who make it every year. Wojo was lowering the bar and expectations each year and making it seem like a herculean task to even finish 5th in the conference and sneak in to the tournament.

I predict we make it next year and will be disappointed if we don't.

[WarriorPride68]

IMO, I see many people way overestimating what it takes to make the NCAA tournament. There are average teams who make it every year. Wojo was lowering the bar and expectations each year and making it seem like a herculean task to even finish 5th in the conference and sneak in to the tournament.

I predict we make it next year and will be disappointed if we don't.

I think it will be tough if Dawson stays in draft. T-rank drops from an already meh 70 to 123 if we lose Dawson; and would have to replace our top 5 value added players from last year (in order; Dawson, DJ, Cain, Theo, Koby)

for example; Woj went 13-14 overall last year and finished 64 t-rank.

[lurch91]

Anything short of it is a failure.  Al McGuire never missed the NCAA Tournament

Except in '65, '66, '67 and '70.  Other than those years, you are correct......

[Lennys Tap]

Except in '65, '66, '67 and '70.  Other than those years, you are correct......

Didn't miss it in '70. Invited (we were comfortably in the top 10) but declined.

[jutaw22mu]

Shaka will be given time for rebuilding, however I won't be surprised if Year 1 Shaka rebuild > any year of Wojo.  It's a low bar though.  All he has to do is make the tournament and not lose by ~20 to a mid major.

[MU82]

I'm excited to watch a new, athletic team that will play a different style, and I accept there will be growing pains.

I'd be pleasantly surprised (but not stunned) if we get an NCAA tourney bid. Nut overall, I'm not very concerned about what our record will be next season. In Year 2 and 3, it will be a lot more important to me (and, I'm guessing, most others here).

Those who think we wouldn't have been a better team with DJ and (if he goes) Garcia ... I wonder about their basketball knowledge.

[StillAWarrior]

I'm excited to watch a new, athletic team that will play a different style, and I accept there will be growing pains.

Growing pains are indicative of growth. That, alone, would be an improvement over the last couple years.

[Herman Cain]

Seems to me Shaka is playing to win in Year 1. Once everyone gets on campus the team building will start. It will be that way for most teams since there has been so much player movement. 

Looking at the rest of The Big East, I think a .500 or better conference season is possible this coming season. 

[f/k/a humanlung]

Shaka will be given time for rebuilding, however I won't be surprised if Year 1 Shaka rebuild > any year of Wojo.  It's a low bar though.  All he has to do is make the tournament and not lose by ~20 to a mid major.

I have said this many times, I would be thrilled to see a single halftime adjustment.  I'm not sure if I could contain my joy if there were actually a pattern of halftime adjustments.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

For me: I am sick of watching shitty basketball.  Obviously I will give Shaka a year or two to get his feet under him, and at this point its evident he's going to need it.  This team is not good as currently constructed and has 2 upperclassmen - a spot up shooter and a backup 5.  Not good for winning games.

But one of the things that excited me the most about the Shaka hire was the hope that there wouldn't be much of a rebuild period and he could hit the ground running.  The future looks bright - but the 21-22 season flew out the window when DJ left IMO. 

[Galway Eagle]

For me: I am sick of watching crapty basketball.  Obviously I will give Shaka a year or two to get his feet under him, and at this point its evident he's going to need it.  This team is not good as currently constructed and has 2 upperclassmen - a spot up shooter and a backup 5.  Not good for winning games.

But one of the things that excited me the most about the Shaka hire was the hope that there wouldn't be much of a rebuild period and he could hit the ground running.  The future looks bright - but the 21-22 season flew out the window when DJ left IMO.

I'm not quite this pessimistic but certainly Dawson's return and a solid PG transfer are much more vital than before

[MU82]

Growing pains are indicative of growth. That, alone, would be an improvement over the last couple years.

Agreed.

Seems to me Shaka is playing to win in Year 1. Once everyone gets on campus the team building will start. It will be that way for most teams since there has been so much player movement. 

Looking at the rest of The Big East, I think a .500 or better conference season is possible this coming season. 

Of course he's "playing to win." Every coach will say that, even the new DePaul coach.

We don't even know what our final roster is yet, nor do we know exactly what we're gonna face in the Big East. It's all a big "we'll see."

What we do know is that Shaka inherited a decent team at Texas -- better than the one he's inheriting at MU due to DJ (and possibly Garcia) leaving -- and went 20-13 (11-7 conference) and lost in the first round of the NCAAs, and then he went 11-22 his second year, followed by 19-15 his third. That is not meant as any kind of real or veiled criticism of Shaka; it's simply a fact.

An optimist would say that the transfer rules and such would seem to favor somebody with the kind of dynamic personality he has, and that the Big East can be a place where he can put in a system that can win bigger sooner, but I really think those who are assuming he is going to be a miracle worker (as measured by NCAA appearances and tourney wins instantly) are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I'm hoping for a team: that looks to be improving game to game and week to week and month to month; that executes the coach's system and vision; that starts to build a culture of intensity and hard work and teamwork; and that lays the groundwork for my alma mater to have years of future basketball success.

If Shaka's team accomplishes that, anything on top of it -- W/L-wise, BEast-standings-wise and NCAA tourney-wise -- I'll look as a very pleasant surprise.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I'm not quite this pessimistic but certainly Dawson's return and a solid PG transfer are much more vital than before

Dawson returning 100% helps.  Gives the team a shot. Without him its going to be really bad. I just don't see how all these young players aren't going to get absolutely buried in the Big East.  I've asked this question a few times and I honestly mean it - who is going to score the basketball?  Greg Elliott?  We're going to be relying heavily on front court players to score, and I just think this backcourt is going to be bad as its literally ALL freshman and a kid who played at George Mason last year.  Morsell would certainly help, but he's not exactly a scorer either.

I am excited for the season.  Generally super positive when it comes to Marquette hoops.  I am sick of watching bad teams for sure, and I was super pumped about Shaka.  But as this team is constructed, I just don't see it for next year.  Which is a little disappointing for me considering if there was ever an offseason to build a winner in year 1, it was this offseason.  Longer-term?  I can definitely see what he's building, but in today's game with the transfer rule and higher rated kids always interested in making $, its much harder to look into the future with any sort of clarity.  Seems like teams are going to need to be rebuilt in a lot of ways each season. 

[StillAWarrior]

I'm hoping for a team: that looks to be improving game to game and week to week and month to month; that executes the coach's system and vision; that starts to build a culture of intensity and hard work and teamwork; and that lays the groundwork for my alma mater to have years of future basketball success.

If Shaka's team accomplishes that, anything on top of it -- W/L-wise, BEast-standings-wise and NCAA tourney-wise -- I'll look as a very pleasant surprise.

Preach.