2021-2022 NFL Season

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Once Kittle got the big pass to convert the 3rd and 10 on their last drive, my hope was that they scored quick enough to give us a shot at the game winner. I was screaming to let the FB get into the endzone.

[dgies9156]

Your post was spot on till this.  They're taking Arlington Heights, not Joliet or Naperville.  Just over 20 miles from downtown.  Its not a remote suburb when its 10 miles from O'Hare.

And the Bears aren't the Jaguars, making long term stadium decisions has nothing to do if they are good or not, people still go to games, and still will go even if the stadium is in Arlington and the Bears are 5-12.

Bear Bad means taking advantage of the fan base.

I've had season tickets to the Bears since 1996. When the Bears opened New Soldier Field, my seats were in Row 31, close to the top of the Grandstand. I'm in Row 13 now and barely missed being in Row 4. I've watched as the no shows went from a few hundred to nearly entire sections being empty for more than a few games. On the OB and Hamp show today, Dan Hampton intoned the obvious --the Bear fan will only put up with so much more of this. He is fearful the crappy play and poor coaching will alienate the average Bear fan for the last time.

As to Arlington Heights being "remote," try getting there if you live in the south suburbs. Or NW Indiana. There's a huge segment of Bear fans that are going to be a lot further removed, both in distance and drive time, if the Bears move to the suburbs. If you're not on the UP North Line, mass transit is a limited option. There is one major highway link into the stadium -- Illinois 53 north of the Tollway -- and the probability of any new highways into the region is about the same as Matt Nagy leading the Bears to the Super Bowl this year.

As to the Bears not being the Jaguars, we'll we will see. It's not looking good on that front. At least Shahid Kahn is throwing money around like, well, he has it.

[DegenerateDish]

Bear Bad means taking advantage of the fan base.

I've had season tickets to the Bears since 1996. When the Bears opened New Soldier Field, my seats were in Row 31, close to the top of the Grandstand. I'm in Row 13 now and barely missed being in Row 4. I've watched as the no shows went from a few hundred to nearly entire sections being empty for more than a few games. On the OB and Hamp show today, Dan Hampton intoned the obvious --the Bear fan will only put up with so much more of this. He is fearful the crappy play and poor coaching will alienate the average Bear fan for the last time.

As to Arlington Heights being "remote," try getting there if you live in the south suburbs. Or NW Indiana. There's a huge segment of Bear fans that are going to be a lot further removed, both in distance and drive time, if the Bears move to the suburbs. If you're not on the UP North Line, mass transit is a limited option. There is one major highway link into the stadium -- Illinois 53 north of the Tollway -- and the probability of any new highways into the region is about the same as Matt Nagy leading the Bears to the Super Bowl this year.

As to the Bears not being the Jaguars, we'll we will see. It's not looking good on that front. At least Shahid Kahn is throwing money around like, well, he has it.

I’m not sure why all the angst right now about Arlington Heights. The actual fact is the vast majority of season ticket holders will have way better access. You have to remove the word “fan” from “season ticket holder”. The fan that lives in Orland Park that goes twice a year, and has to drive to Arlington Heights? No one cares.

[jesmu84]

https://twitter.com/SamHouseholder/status/1442321763333914627?s=19

The more I think about it, the more I hope that Virginia’s 17 children want to sell the Bears, Pat Ryan buys them out, moves to Arlington Heights and hires a president of football operations and the stadium is nicknamed the House that Fields Built.

[Mutaman]

I think Rodgers/Adams gained more yards in those last 37 seconds than the Bears did the entire game. If not, it was pretty close.

[Pakuni]

I’m not sure why all the angst right now about Arlington Heights. The actual fact is the vast majority of season ticket holders will have way better access. You have to remove the word “fan” from “season ticket holder”. The fan that lives in Orland Park that goes twice a year, and has to drive to Arlington Heights? No one cares.

Yep.
The Bears know the ZIP codes for all their season ticket holders, and thus know that Arlington Heights is by no means less convenient for them.
That said, drive times/convenience of fans is pretty far down the list of what's determantive here.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://twitter.com/SamHouseholder/status/1442321763333914627?s=19

It took him until now to realize that Ginny's kids should sell the team?

[MU82]

Bear Bad means taking advantage of the fan base.

I've had season tickets to the Bears since 1996. When the Bears opened New Soldier Field, my seats were in Row 31, close to the top of the Grandstand. I'm in Row 13 now and barely missed being in Row 4. I've watched as the no shows went from a few hundred to nearly entire sections being empty for more than a few games. On the OB and Hamp show today, Dan Hampton intoned the obvious --the Bear fan will only put up with so much more of this. He is fearful the crappy play and poor coaching will alienate the average Bear fan for the last time.

As to Arlington Heights being "remote," try getting there if you live in the south suburbs. Or NW Indiana. There's a huge segment of Bear fans that are going to be a lot further removed, both in distance and drive time, if the Bears move to the suburbs. If you're not on the UP North Line, mass transit is a limited option. There is one major highway link into the stadium -- Illinois 53 north of the Tollway -- and the probability of any new highways into the region is about the same as Matt Nagy leading the Bears to the Super Bowl this year.

As to the Bears not being the Jaguars, we'll we will see. It's not looking good on that front. At least Shahid Kahn is throwing money around like, well, he has it.

Bear fans have put up with cruddy teams for decades at a time. I lived in Chicago from 1994-2010, and I heard countless times that fans were fed up and wouldn't put up with it any more. Is there a really, truly, actual "breaking point"? We'll see.

And as others have said, drive time to the stadium doesn't matter one iota to the Bears when it comes to finally making a decision on Arlington Park or elsewhere. For every fan in NW Indiana or Homewood who'd rather go to the current facility, there are fans in Elgin, Crystal Lake and Rockford who would be thrilled to go to Arlington instead of Soldier's Field (my friend). Not to mention those in the south suburbs with easy access to 290.

In other news ...

My son has taught my 2-year-old grand-twins how to say "da Bears," so the team has that going for them. (Although it kind of sounds more like "da beers," which I like a lot better!)

[Dr. Blackheart]

As to Arlington Heights being "remote," try getting there if you live in the south suburbs. Or NW Indiana. There's a huge segment of Bear fans that are going to be a lot further removed, both in distance and drive time, if the Bears move to the suburbs. If you're not on the UP North Line, mass transit is a limited option. There is one major highway link into the stadium -- Illinois 53 north of the Tollway -- and the probability of any new highways into the region is about the same as Matt Nagy leading the Bears to the Super Bowl this year.

First of all, it's the Metra Northwest line. Second, Pace buses run throughout the Cook County suburbs too. Third, every major highway except I 94 north of the junction intersects with I-355/IL53 to put fans directly onto the site: 294 from the South, 55 from Joliet, 88 from the West, 290 from the city, and 90 from the City. Fourth, I-390 is under construction as we speak (formerly known as the Elgin-O'Hare). Fifth, I look forward to the Matt Nagy Super Bowl this year as a result.

Let's look at Soldier Field: CTA Shuttle buses from train and El stations, LSD only fed by 55 from the Southwest.Walking. Everything else is a bottle neck like Ida B Wells passing through the same choke point.

The only place left uncovered is the high brows from Lake County, where the land for the IL 53 extension is bought, but is being repurposed: "The Route 53 land has the potential to become a space that prioritizes walking and biking and supports a cleaner environment and healthier, more equitable communities." There will be plenty of stadium bike racks for your ilk.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The history of the NFL has seen countless stadiums move to the suburbs, back from the suburbs, etc.  The Jets and Giants play in New Jersey.  The 49ers moved to San Jose.  Hell, the Los Angeles Rams moved to St. Louis for over 20 years, returned to LA, built a stadium in crappy ole Inglewood, and it was sold out and rockin' yesterday afternoon. 

And dgies thinks Bear fans wouldn't go to Arlington Heights to go to a game?

[jficke13]

I feel like I hear tons of romantic pedestrian utopia talk about urban baseball stadiums (Wrigley, Fenway, PNC). Obviously, Miller Park is in the middle of a repurposed industrial valley and surrounded by parking lots, so it's kind of the exact opposite.

On the one hand you get the urban bars, restaurants experience in Wrigleyville. On the other you get the tailgating experience by Miller. Lambeau has the tailgating (but GB is kinda it's own little unique environment). Soldier is urban but without any of the neighborhood of Fenway/Wrigley.

I've only ever been to Lambeau and Soldier, do other cities have stadiums in something like a Wrigley environment? I feel like I've driven by Pittsburgh, Denver, and Seattle and came away from seeing all three as though they were vaguely urban but more industrial, but I have not attended a game in any them or been nearby on a gameday so I have no idea.

I kind of get the sense that lots of NFL stadiums are kinda yeeted off into the urban periphery and that doesn't seem to matter to anyone from an attendance perspective.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Because the average NFL game has 66,000 fans in attendance so you need parking lots, access to highways, transportation, etc.

That's about twice as many as the top MLB team (Dodgers.)  It's also hard to have an NFL stadium as an economic engine for a neighborhood when it only has ten or so home dates a year.  Versus a baseball team with 80+ or an indoor arena with potentially 100+.  So those factors I don't think are as important as others.

[MU82]

I feel like I hear tons of romantic pedestrian utopia talk about urban baseball stadiums (Wrigley, Fenway, PNC). Obviously, Miller Park is in the middle of a repurposed industrial valley and surrounded by parking lots, so it's kind of the exact opposite.

On the one hand you get the urban bars, restaurants experience in Wrigleyville. On the other you get the tailgating experience by Miller. Lambeau has the tailgating (but GB is kinda it's own little unique environment). Soldier is urban but without any of the neighborhood of Fenway/Wrigley.

I've only ever been to Lambeau and Soldier, do other cities have stadiums in something like a Wrigley environment? I feel like I've driven by Pittsburgh, Denver, and Seattle and came away from seeing all three as though they were vaguely urban but more industrial, but I have not attended a game in any them or been nearby on a gameday so I have no idea.

I kind of get the sense that lots of NFL stadiums are kinda yeeted off into the urban periphery and that doesn't seem to matter to anyone from an attendance perspective.

Many other cities have urban stadiums.

Where I live now, Charlotte's football stadium is downtown (which they call "uptown" here), the Hornets arena is a few blocks away (actually in the very heart of uptown) and the newish AAA ballpark is right there, too. All kinds of eating and drinking nearby. The Hornets moved several years ago from an arena on the edge of the city, near pretty much nothing.

And there are many, many others. Cincinnati, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Vegas, Baltimore, Tennessee, St. Louis, New Orleans, Boston, Detroit and San Diego have football and/or baseball stadiums either in the heart of their cities or within easy walking distance to numerous downtown stuff. The G.S. Warriors just moved from a parking lot in Oakland into the heart of San Fran. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

[🏀]

I feel like I hear tons of romantic pedestrian utopia talk about urban baseball stadiums (Wrigley, Fenway, PNC). Obviously, Miller Park is in the middle of a repurposed industrial valley and surrounded by parking lots, so it's kind of the exact opposite.

On the one hand you get the urban bars, restaurants experience in Wrigleyville. On the other you get the tailgating experience by Miller. Lambeau has the tailgating (but GB is kinda it's own little unique environment). Soldier is urban but without any of the neighborhood of Fenway/Wrigley.

I've only ever been to Lambeau and Soldier, do other cities have stadiums in something like a Wrigley environment? I feel like I've driven by Pittsburgh, Denver, and Seattle and came away from seeing all three as though they were vaguely urban but more industrial, but I have not attended a game in any them or been nearby on a gameday so I have no idea.

I kind of get the sense that lots of NFL stadiums are kinda yeeted off into the urban periphery and that doesn't seem to matter to anyone from an attendance perspective.

Let's not act like the site is in the middle of nowhere. AH's downtown district is going to be a 20 minute walk. I'm sure further development of the Route 14 corridor to will connect the downtown and stadium site.

This could be a cool site when done. Massive existing infrastructure, tons of available land and an existing thriving downtown district within reach.

[MU82]

Panthers just traded for C.J. Henderson, a CB who was the #9 overall 2020 draft pick (by Jacksonville). Panthers sending 3rd-round pick and TE Dan Arnold to Jax for Henderson and a 5th-rounder.

Panthers are statistically the NFL's best defense so far (but 2 of the opponents were bad). Unfortunately, my team lost our #1 pick, Jaycee Horn, who was playing great and had a big hole at CB. Starting safety Juston Burris also got hurt but that's not supposed to be as serious.

Henderson has had a short but checkered career so far. Had a decent start as a rookie but missed the second half of the season with injuries. Just had to miss Jacksonville's most recent game with a groin injury but supposedly on the mend. During training camp, he had to sit out in COVID-19 protocol; at the time, he was said to be unvaccinated; not sure what his status is now in that realm.

Panthers obviously are hoping that a change in scenery will do him well. They've been a pretty good judge of young defensive talent, so they've earned the benefit of the doubt from me (and I'm sure they're relieved about that).

It also tells me that Horn's injury (broken bones in foot) is potentially season-ending, dammit. And it tells me that Arnold, whom they talked up after signing him as a free agent, was not impressing them once actual games started. They have a rookie from ND, Tommy Tremble, who is built like a young Gronk and who played superbly last week, and also 2 other TEs on the roster.

Fingers crossed that Henderson can live up to the potential he showed to be a top-10 draft pick only 18 months ago.

[jesmu84]

https://youtu.be/Dd2GSHNRC6c

Watch just the first 1:15

Fire Nagy

[tower912]

If you are an unemplyed defensive back, you won't be unemployed much longer.   Many teams with a thin secondary.

[MuggsyB]

https://youtu.be/Dd2GSHNRC6c

Watch just the first 1:15

Fire Nagy

This man has zero business being a head coach in the NFL.  Get rid of him and Pace immediately .

[jesmu84]

Just when you think Nagy can't possibly get any dumber...he totally outdoes himself:

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1442542444680146949?s=19

Bears’ HC Matt Nagy told reporters today that all three QBs - Justin Fields, Nick Foles and Andy Dalton - are under consideration to start in Week 4 against the Lions.

[Billy Hoyle]

Let's not act like the site is in the middle of nowhere. AH's downtown district is going to be a 20 minute walk. I'm sure further development of the Route 14 corridor to will connect the downtown and stadium site.

This could be a cool site when done. Massive existing infrastructure, tons of available land and an existing thriving downtown district within reach.

isn't this similar to what was said about Glendale?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

isn't this similar to what was said about Glendale?

For the Cardinals?  Where the Cardinals have their stadium is nothing like Arlington Heights.

[🏀]

isn't this similar to what was said about Glendale?

Not even remotely similar.

[Jockey]

Let’s get real, people. Whether the Bears move to AH - or even somewhere farther from Downtown will have zero effect on crowd size.

Losing affects attendance. Location of the stadium doesn’t. (see Lambeau Stadium.)

[dgies9156]

The genesis of everybody's criticism of my comment was consideration of Arlington Heights as remote.

Compared to a site at that mortgage company's field (where the morons in 1999 should have built) or the West Side (which is too heavily developed now to build an appropriate stadium), it is remote. It's on the edge of the metro area and unless you're a NW suburbanite, it's a pain in the ass to get to. Despite the Elgin-O'Hare, which is about as close to Raceway Stadium as 894 is to the Fi-Serv, there won't be any new highways up there. You're right in that the Northward extension of the 355 Tollway will never happen. Too many rich people in Long Grove feared for their property values.

Look, I am no great fan of the current Soldier Field. Going there for the past 26 years every game (I think I have missed less than five in that time), you realize quickly what a patronage-based craphole that place is. Everything about it says compromise. And, I mean everything. The Bear fans on the west side grandstand level basically were shoved aside to give the suite and premium seatholders what they want. People are going to get killed trying to get out of that place someday -- killed in a stampede. The slope is so steep on the west side of the stadium I have friends that won't go there for fear of vertigo -- or worse.

The fact is that Soldier Field won't work and is poorly located. A new stadium ideally would be downtown near major transportation lines, including the Ogilvie and Union Stations, as well as the CTA. For those of you who think Arlington Heights is well located, Pace is a rolling crapfest, the Northwest Line is it for mass transit (unless the El is extended) and there's only one way in and out of the future Raceway Stadium -- Illinois 53. They'd be better off tearing down the Rosemont Horizon and building there if the intent is to build in the Northwest Suburbs.

Ultimately, if the Bears win, they could put the stadium in Rockford, Gary or East St. Louis and they'd sell out. But for the past 10 years or so, the Bears have looked more like the Jacksonville Jaguars than the Green Bay Packers.

 

 

[🏀]

The genesis of everybody's criticism of my comment was consideration of Arlington Heights as remote.

Compared to a site at that mortgage company's field (where the morons in 1999 should have built) or the West Side (which is too heavily developed now to build an appropriate stadium), it is remote. It's on the edge of the metro area and unless you're a NW suburbanite, it's a pain in the ass to get to. Despite the Elgin-O'Hare, which is about as close to Raceway Stadium as 894 is to the Fi-Serv, there won't be any new highways up there. You're right in that the Northward extension of the 355 Tollway will never happen. Too many rich people in Long Grove feared for their property values.

Look, I am no great fan of the current Soldier Field. Going there for the past 26 years every game (I think I have missed less than five in that time), you realize quickly what a patronage-based craphole that place is. Everything about it says compromise. And, I mean everything. The Bear fans on the west side grandstand level basically were shoved aside to give the suite and premium seatholders what they want. People are going to get killed trying to get out of that place someday -- killed in a stampede. The slope is so steep on the west side of the stadium I have friends that won't go there for fear of vertigo -- or worse.

The fact is that Soldier Field won't work and is poorly located. A new stadium ideally would be downtown near major transportation lines, including the Ogilvie and Union Stations, as well as the CTA. For those of you who think Arlington Heights is well located, Pace is a rolling crapfest, the Northwest Line is it for mass transit (unless the El is extended) and there's only one way in and out of the future Raceway Stadium -- Illinois 53. They'd be better off tearing down the Rosemont Horizon and building there if the intent is to build in the Northwest Suburbs.

Ultimately, if the Bears win, they could put the stadium in Rockford, Gary or East St. Louis and they'd sell out. But for the past 10 years or so, the Bears have looked more like the Jacksonville Jaguars than the Green Bay Packers.

 

 

90 is what 2.5 miles away?

This is literally a better location of 75% of metro Chicago. The only massive time variance between AP and Solider is when you start getting out towards Frankfort, Tinley, Hammond, etc. The rest of the area is better served.