Who you got?

[TheyWereCones]

I'm in the Davante camp and it's not really close for me.  The 79% of votes also goes to show that there is often a very vocal minority on scoop because if you only read the messages, you'd think it was 60/40 in favor of Theo.  I like these polls.  You get actual results from a wider audience.  We should do more of these.  Most of the vocal people on this board are literally the equivalent of the recruiters on Moneyball.  Every once in awhile someone like TAMU chimes in with some worthwhile stats (like Pete) or insider info.  And do NOT post something that's already been posted or prepare to be roasted.  You MUST scroll through 10 pages of personal fighting in case someone already said it.  It's all mostly entertaining though.

[Skatastrophy]

I'm in the Davante camp and it's not really close for me.  The 79% of votes also goes to show that there is often a very vocal minority on scoop because if you only read the messages, you'd think it was 60/40 in favor of Theo.  I like these polls.  You get actual results from a wider audience.  We should do more of these.  Most of the vocal people on this board are literally the equivalent of the recruiters on Moneyball.  Every once in awhile someone like TAMU chimes in with some worthwhile stats (like Pete) or insider info.  And do NOT post something that's already been posted or prepare to be roasted.  You MUST scroll through 10 pages of personal fighting in case someone already said it.  It's all mostly entertaining though.

+1

Don't trust the mainstream posters. Do your own research sheeple.

[Nukem2]

Yeah, Davante was simply overused as a senior due to the ridiculous guard combo of Derrick and Jake and the self serving contributions by Mayo. Davante's first three seasons are far more indicative of his worth.Theo was a true warrior, but he made some rather mind numbing mistakes game after game.  I vote for Avante even if he had no D.

[jesmu84]

Who would have had the better career if you flip flop the team/years they were at MU?

Theo earlier with Buzz and his squad.

Davante later with Wojo and his squad.

[🏀]

+1

Don't trust the mainstream posters. Do your own research sheeple.

I get my research from the posts my uncle shares on Facebook

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Markus Howard vs Derrick Wilson

Who do I got? In what?

Shooting/scoring/offense - Markus

Post season accolades - Markus

Defense - Derrick

Rebounding - Derrick

Team success/leadership - Derrick

Passing - Derrick

Who would win a fight - Derrick

Wow. All this time I thought Markus was WAY better at basketball. But Scoop has taught me "it depends on what you're looking for". Who woulda thunk it?

Lenny, I was having fun with the OP since he didn't give any parameters, just said "Who you got?" I mean there were more joke categories than real categories c'mon

[wadesworld]

The same guys who think it's despicable to point out all time great coaches like Jay Wright sometimes take time to turn into those all time great coaches are now comparing Derrick Wilson and Markus Howard.

Hilarious.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, I was having fun with the OP since he didn't give any parameters, just said "Who you got?" I mean there were more joke categories than real categories c'mon

TAMU

If "Better all around basketball player" - "Theo" was meant as a joke I apologize.

The point of my obviously tongue in cheek response (sorry it went over your head, BLM) was how simplistic some of our posters were being. Saying one guy (Davante or. Markus) was better on offense and one guy was better on defense (Theo or Derrick) is true. Drawing the conclusion from this "fact" that Theo is Davante's equal or better or that Derrick vs Markus is even worthy of discussion is ridiculous.

The poll numbers appear to bear this out.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Markus Howard vs Derrick Wilson

Who do I got? In what?

Shooting/scoring/offense - Markus

Post season accolades - Markus

Defense - Derrick

Rebounding - Derrick

Team success/leadership - Derrick

Passing - Derrick

Who would win a fight - Derrick

Wow. All this time I thought Markus was WAY better at basketball. But Scoop has taught me "it depends on what you're looking for". Who woulda thunk it?

Yes, but who had the better Adjusted Tempo during January games played at night?

[SaveOD238]

Who would have had the better career if you flip flop the team/years they were at MU?

Theo earlier with Buzz and his squad.

Davante later with Wojo and his squad.

This is a helluva question. 

Imagine some of those small-ish Buzz teams with an enforcer inside like Theo.  What if Lazar and later Jae didn't have to play center?  That defense would have been incredible.  Wow.

Then imagine some of the Wojo era teams, especially the Markus Howard years, with a guy like Davante inside.  The ability to pick-and-roll and the space created inside due to Markus' shooting would have allowed Davante to feast.  Again, wow.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

If "Better all around basketball player" - "Theo" was meant as a joke I apologize.

Nope, it was one of the three serious responses. I believe that if they had the same coaching and same teammates around them, Theo would have been considered the better player.

The point of my obviously tongue in cheek response (sorry it went over your head, BLM) was how simplistic some of our posters were being. Saying one guy (Davante or. Markus) was better on offense and one guy was better on defense (Theo or Derrick) is true. Drawing the conclusion from this "fact" that Theo is Davante's equal or better or that Derrick vs Markus is even worthy of discussion is ridiculous.

Trying to say a Theo/Davante comparison is equal or similar to a Markus/Derrick comparison is the only ridiculous thing I see here. Theo/Davante were both average players (I voted for Davante btw). Derrick was arguably the worst PG to start for Marquette in decades and Markus may have his number hanging in the rafters one day.

Davante was much better on offense than Theo. Theo was much better on defense than Davante. Personally, I think the gap between their offenses is greater than the gap between their defenses so I voted for Davante. Others may see it differently. Personally, I think they're close enough that people can have differing opinions on the matter. You clearly don't.

[Lennys Tap]

Nope, it was one of the three serious responses. I believe that if they had the same coaching and same teammates around them, Theo would have been considered the better player.

Trying to say a Theo/Davante comparison is equal or similar to a Markus/Derrick comparison is the only ridiculous thing I see here. Theo/Davante were both average players

Reading is a skill. I clearly state that the Markus/Derrick comp isn't even worthy of discussion. I merely used it to show how absurd the "one guy's better on offense, one guy's better on defense" argument can be.

Davante was Big East 6th man of the year twice. He made the NCAA all regional team. He was second team All Big East and he made second team All Big East with Derrick and Jake Thomas as his guards. His senior year he was named Marquette's MVP by his coaches. Unless/until you can find me another Marquette players with this kind of resume' who is "average" and a worse all around basketball player than Theo John I don't think your opinion on this survives scrutiny.



.

[Pakuni]

Reading is a skill. I clearly state that the Markus/Derrick comp isn't even worthy of discussion. I merely used it to show how absurd the "one guy's better on offense, one guy's better on defense" argument can be.

Davante was Big East 6th man of the year twice. He made the NCAA all regional team. He was second team All Big East and he made second team All Big East with Derrick and Jake Thomas as his guards. His senior year he was named Marquette's MVP by his coaches. Unless/until you can find me another Marquette players with this kind of resume' who is "average" and a worse all around basketball player than Theo John I don't think your opinion on this survives scrutiny.

You're not changing anyone's mind at this point, no matter how many different ways you re-write this post.

[WolfganghisKhan]

Davante every day and twice on game day.

[forgetful]

He was second team All Big East and he made second team All Big East with Derrick and Jake Thomas as his guards.

You keep saying that, but also keep leaving out that the team was predicted to win the Big East. That the team had three future NBA players (Wilson, Juan Anderson, Burton). Also had Duane Wilson and JuJuan Anderson.

A better question is, why were they so bad.

[wadesworld]

You keep saying that, but also keep leaving out that the team was predicted to win the Big East. That the team had three future NBA players (Wilson, Juan Anderson, Burton). Also had Duane Wilson and JuJuan Anderson.

A better question is, why were they so bad.

Because, as Lenny has told us, the Big East was so much better and had so many more teams than the current Big East does (ignore the fact that it's the same Big East, except now UCONN is in the Big East when it wasn't that season).

[Nukem2]

You keep saying that, but also keep leaving out that the team was predicted to win the Big East. That the team had three future NBA players (Wilson, Juan Anderson, Burton). Also had Duane Wilson and JuJuan Anderson.

A better question is, why were they so bad.

...

[Galway Eagle]

You keep saying that, but also keep leaving out that the team was predicted to win the Big East. That the team had three future NBA players (Wilson, Juan Anderson, Burton). Also had Duane Wilson and JuJuan Anderson.

A better question is, why were they so bad.

Duane was injured so they didn't have him. JJJ was vastly over ranked

[The Sultan]

Because, as Lenny has told us, the Big East was so much better and had so many more teams than the current Big East does (ignore the fact that it's the same Big East, except now UCONN is in the Big East when it wasn't that season).

One was coached by Buzz. The other by Wojo. Therefore every player on the Buzz coached team is automatically better.

[MU82]

JJJ was vastly over ranked

If I remember correctly (and I might not), Buzz REALLY talked up JJJ that preseason, which was one of the things that led to heightened expectations.

[tower912]

That team was not overhyped.   Buzz warned in October about the lack of senior leadership.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Reading is a skill. I clearly state that the Markus/Derrick comp isn't even worthy of discussion. I merely used it to show how absurd the "one guy's better on offense, one guy's better on defense" argument can be.

That's fair.

Davante was Big East 6th man of the year twice. He made the NCAA all regional team. He was second team All Big East and he made second team All Big East with Derrick and Jake Thomas as his guards. His senior year he was named Marquette's MVP by his coaches. Unless/until you can find me another Marquette players with this kind of resume' who is "average" and a worse all around basketball player than Theo John I don't think your opinion on this survives scrutiny.

So your argument is that if a player has more awards, he must be better than the player with less awards? So you must think that Markus Howard is one of the two greatest players to ever play for Marquette. After all he and Butch are the only two 2-time All Americans in Marquette history.

Davante benefited from having Buzz as a coach. Theo suffered from having Wojo as a coach. Put them both under Buzz or both under Wojo and I think Theo would have come out on top. Unprovable either way but that's my opinion. You are free to disagree with it. Based on what they actually accomplished, Davante is better, that's why I picked Davante.

[Lennys Tap]

Because, as Lenny has told us, the Big East was so much better and had so many more teams than the current Big East does (ignore the fact that it's the same Big East, except now UCONN is in the Big East when it wasn't that season).

The Big East that Gardner played in was only a much better conference than the one that Theo played in 3 of his 4 years at Marquette.

[Lennys Tap]

That's fair.

So your argument is that if a player has more awards, he must be better than the player with less awards? So you must think that Markus Howard is one of the two greatest players to ever play for Marquette. After all he and Butch are the only two 2-time All Americans in Marquette history.

Fair point. But one difference. Davante had a bunch of awards. Theo had none and wasn't close to having one.
Davante had a slew of team accomplishments. Theo had none.

Comparing players who both have a long list of awards/accomplishments is different imo.

[wadesworld]

The Big East that Gardner played in was only a much better conference than the one that Theo played in 3 of his 4 years at Marquette.

Not the one you reference as his Second Team All Big East season. But that doesn't fit your agenda.